- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sam Walton ( talk) 00:06, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
International reactions to 2008 Tibetan unrest
- International reactions to 2008 Tibetan unrest ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability in question. A merge with the main article dicussing important countries would likely be the best solution. Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) may the force be with you 21:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Merge to main article. Considering the content of this article,
which comprises mainly communist countries saying that participants to go to prison and republics saying otherwise, this fails WP:GNG.Other countries' participation is limited to condemning or praising the protests. epic genius ( talk) 21:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- With respect, much of what you have written is wrong
User:Epicgenius. For example most countries supporting China such as Fiji, Pakistan, Russia, Serbia and Singapore are not communist. In addition, all communist countries are republics, such as the
People's Republic of China or
Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Many countries criticising China, such as Australia, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden, Thailand and the United Kingdom aren't republics but monarchies. Just because the US is a capitalist republic does not mean that is how the world works.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:07, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I meant that it depends on which types of leadership it is. However, some of the most prominent opponents of the unrest are dictatorships/communist countries/juntas, of the type that also do internet censorship of things they don't like.
epic genius (
talk) 22:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Communism does not = dictatorship and dictatorship does not = communism.
Pinochet was very much a capitalist dictator while
Hugo Chávez was a democratic communist. Additionally, republics can be dictatorships eg China or Syria while monarchies can be democratic such as Australia, the Netherlands or the UK.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:16, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- I realize that. Some communist democrats or capitalist dictators may very well support the freedom to have unrest. I'm just commenting on the most common countries that criticize it. epic genius ( talk) 22:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Communism does not = dictatorship and dictatorship does not = communism.
Pinochet was very much a capitalist dictator while
Hugo Chávez was a democratic communist. Additionally, republics can be dictatorships eg China or Syria while monarchies can be democratic such as Australia, the Netherlands or the UK.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:16, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I meant that it depends on which types of leadership it is. However, some of the most prominent opponents of the unrest are dictatorships/communist countries/juntas, of the type that also do internet censorship of things they don't like.
epic genius (
talk) 22:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment What countries are "important" that would be discussed in the main article in the event of a merger, user:Kenobi5487 AusLondonder ( talk) 22:09, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - passes GNG and is of historically notable and encyclopedic content. —Мандичка YO 😜 22:17, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. I previously wrote an essay at Wikipedia:Reactions to... articles aka WP:REACTIONS that describes some of the issues with these "International reactions" articles and lists some of the previous outcomes of debates around them. It is not intended as a guideline, but more a reflection of how editors have dealt with such articles before. That said, editors may be interested in extending the essay or working it into a guideline - perhaps a supplement to WP:EVENT. Fences& Windows 00:53, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep Notable reactions to a major incident, especially in the lead-up to the 2008 Olympics. Important encyclopaedic content. AusLondonder ( talk) 17:00, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep: I deem the nomination WP:POINTY per this, the subject is notable, and the reactions sourced. LjL ( talk) 17:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 17:24, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. LjL ( talk) 17:44, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep per AusLondonder, —Мандичка, and Shawn in Montreal. Easily satisfies WP:GNG.-- Ddcm8991 ( talk) 18:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Not me! I didn't cast a !vote. Just listed it. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete
Shorten and merge into 2008 Tibetan unrest- A POV fork as per WP:POVSPLIT. STSC ( talk) 03:34, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on what makes this a POV fork, as opposed to a simple
WP:SPINOUT?
LjL (
talk) 15:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Just give you one example, the article has a whole section for that Tibetan guy from CTA talking about beating up people is not violence. And then there is extensive content on pro-Tibetan protests. The overall undertone of the article is very much pro-Tibetan; the article is clearly a POV fork. STSC ( talk) 16:26, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on what makes this a POV fork, as opposed to a simple
WP:SPINOUT?
LjL (
talk) 15:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sam Walton ( talk) 00:06, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
International reactions to 2008 Tibetan unrest
- International reactions to 2008 Tibetan unrest ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Notability in question. A merge with the main article dicussing important countries would likely be the best solution. Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) may the force be with you 21:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Merge to main article. Considering the content of this article,
which comprises mainly communist countries saying that participants to go to prison and republics saying otherwise, this fails WP:GNG.Other countries' participation is limited to condemning or praising the protests. epic genius ( talk) 21:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- With respect, much of what you have written is wrong
User:Epicgenius. For example most countries supporting China such as Fiji, Pakistan, Russia, Serbia and Singapore are not communist. In addition, all communist countries are republics, such as the
People's Republic of China or
Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Many countries criticising China, such as Australia, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden, Thailand and the United Kingdom aren't republics but monarchies. Just because the US is a capitalist republic does not mean that is how the world works.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:07, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I meant that it depends on which types of leadership it is. However, some of the most prominent opponents of the unrest are dictatorships/communist countries/juntas, of the type that also do internet censorship of things they don't like.
epic genius (
talk) 22:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Communism does not = dictatorship and dictatorship does not = communism.
Pinochet was very much a capitalist dictator while
Hugo Chávez was a democratic communist. Additionally, republics can be dictatorships eg China or Syria while monarchies can be democratic such as Australia, the Netherlands or the UK.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:16, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- I realize that. Some communist democrats or capitalist dictators may very well support the freedom to have unrest. I'm just commenting on the most common countries that criticize it. epic genius ( talk) 22:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Communism does not = dictatorship and dictatorship does not = communism.
Pinochet was very much a capitalist dictator while
Hugo Chávez was a democratic communist. Additionally, republics can be dictatorships eg China or Syria while monarchies can be democratic such as Australia, the Netherlands or the UK.
AusLondonder (
talk) 22:16, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, I meant that it depends on which types of leadership it is. However, some of the most prominent opponents of the unrest are dictatorships/communist countries/juntas, of the type that also do internet censorship of things they don't like.
epic genius (
talk) 22:10, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment What countries are "important" that would be discussed in the main article in the event of a merger, user:Kenobi5487 AusLondonder ( talk) 22:09, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep - passes GNG and is of historically notable and encyclopedic content. —Мандичка YO 😜 22:17, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. I previously wrote an essay at Wikipedia:Reactions to... articles aka WP:REACTIONS that describes some of the issues with these "International reactions" articles and lists some of the previous outcomes of debates around them. It is not intended as a guideline, but more a reflection of how editors have dealt with such articles before. That said, editors may be interested in extending the essay or working it into a guideline - perhaps a supplement to WP:EVENT. Fences& Windows 00:53, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep Notable reactions to a major incident, especially in the lead-up to the 2008 Olympics. Important encyclopaedic content. AusLondonder ( talk) 17:00, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep: I deem the nomination WP:POINTY per this, the subject is notable, and the reactions sourced. LjL ( talk) 17:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 17:24, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of China-related deletion discussions. LjL ( talk) 17:44, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Keep per AusLondonder, —Мандичка, and Shawn in Montreal. Easily satisfies WP:GNG.-- Ddcm8991 ( talk) 18:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Not me! I didn't cast a !vote. Just listed it. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 18:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
- Delete
Shorten and merge into 2008 Tibetan unrest- A POV fork as per WP:POVSPLIT. STSC ( talk) 03:34, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on what makes this a POV fork, as opposed to a simple
WP:SPINOUT?
LjL (
talk) 15:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Just give you one example, the article has a whole section for that Tibetan guy from CTA talking about beating up people is not violence. And then there is extensive content on pro-Tibetan protests. The overall undertone of the article is very much pro-Tibetan; the article is clearly a POV fork. STSC ( talk) 16:26, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on what makes this a POV fork, as opposed to a simple
WP:SPINOUT?
LjL (
talk) 15:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.