- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:25, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
House of Telcontar and similar
- House of Telcontar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Húrin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Finwë ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Bëor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Hador ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
These are all fictional families (or one character with a family) and their family trees from the Tolkien legendarium. I'm paraphrasing here what I wrote in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Family tree of House Targaryen, where the Game of Thrones equivalents of these articles were deleted:
- These families and the family trees depicted here are not notable ( WP:GNG) because no third-party sources discuss them as such (as families or family trees, as distinct from the notability of Tolkien's work(s) as a whole).
- To the extent that they are unsourced (some are tagged as such since 2013), the contents are original research ( WP:OR) because they may include fan speculation and, insofar as there are inconsistencies in the source material, the decision of which version to include is original research.
- To the extent that the family trees may have been copied from a source, on the other hand, they are copyright violations. (Real-world family trees document facts, which are are not copyrightable, but fictional family trees are just another copyrightable work of fiction.)
- Finally, it should be apparent at a glance that this is the sort of in-universe fancruft that belongs in specialized fan wikis, not in a general purpose encyclopedia that treats fiction from an out-of-universe perspective (see WP:WAF). Our policy WP:NOTPLOT directs that articles must not only consist of a summary of works of fiction, and these articles fail this policy. Sandstein 08:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- Delete To be honest, I was against Sandstein's decision of deleting the family trees that were in the form of templates as they showed the relationships between different characters, but this is a different case. We have actual articles here describing a fictional work about some fake families and their histories in an in-universe style and in detail, which is awkward as here's not a fandom of TLotR or any other fictional work. By the way, they are poorly sourced and probably are not notable either, as they are merely plot summaries. Keivan.f Talk 21:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- Delete, concur with the above, nothing but a restating of plot and for an exceptionally obscure aspect of plot to boot. I'm also very receptive to the idea that this is a copyvio, for the reasons outlined by Sandstein. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 07:06, 6 August 2017 (UTC).
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:25, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
House of Telcontar and similar
- House of Telcontar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Húrin ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Finwë ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- House of Bëor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- Hador ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
These are all fictional families (or one character with a family) and their family trees from the Tolkien legendarium. I'm paraphrasing here what I wrote in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Family tree of House Targaryen, where the Game of Thrones equivalents of these articles were deleted:
- These families and the family trees depicted here are not notable ( WP:GNG) because no third-party sources discuss them as such (as families or family trees, as distinct from the notability of Tolkien's work(s) as a whole).
- To the extent that they are unsourced (some are tagged as such since 2013), the contents are original research ( WP:OR) because they may include fan speculation and, insofar as there are inconsistencies in the source material, the decision of which version to include is original research.
- To the extent that the family trees may have been copied from a source, on the other hand, they are copyright violations. (Real-world family trees document facts, which are are not copyrightable, but fictional family trees are just another copyrightable work of fiction.)
- Finally, it should be apparent at a glance that this is the sort of in-universe fancruft that belongs in specialized fan wikis, not in a general purpose encyclopedia that treats fiction from an out-of-universe perspective (see WP:WAF). Our policy WP:NOTPLOT directs that articles must not only consist of a summary of works of fiction, and these articles fail this policy. Sandstein 08:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- Delete To be honest, I was against Sandstein's decision of deleting the family trees that were in the form of templates as they showed the relationships between different characters, but this is a different case. We have actual articles here describing a fictional work about some fake families and their histories in an in-universe style and in detail, which is awkward as here's not a fandom of TLotR or any other fictional work. By the way, they are poorly sourced and probably are not notable either, as they are merely plot summaries. Keivan.f Talk 21:03, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
- Delete, concur with the above, nothing but a restating of plot and for an exceptionally obscure aspect of plot to boot. I'm also very receptive to the idea that this is a copyvio, for the reasons outlined by Sandstein. Lankiveil ( speak to me) 07:06, 6 August 2017 (UTC).
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.