- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. SarahStierch ( talk) 03:27, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania
- History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence of this being a cohesive, notable subject. The article seems to consist entirely of statistics and original research. - Mr X 16:00, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:05, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Rugby union-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Probably delete It fails WP:NOTSTATSBOOK as it stands. Sporting rivalries can be notable with enough media coverage, and there is an article Antim Cup about a trophy for matches between the two countries, so there's some notability to these games, but I don't think we need 2 articles which largely cover the same matches. If someone will expand it with detailed textual information on the rivalry, I would reconsider, but even then such information might be included in Antim Cup. -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 10:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - Matches between two Tier 2 nations are not notable enough to record in such a manner. – Pee Jay 12:25, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep - Both teams have played at the top most level, the Rugby World Cup and thus I feel are good enough to have this page. Teams that have been in the Top 20 consistently should all have a similar page provided they have played each other 10 times atleast and Georgia and Romania have played each other 17 times so it should be kept provided it gets updated with information from some of these games....-- Stemoc ( talk) 12:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep provided the article is improved - I don't see anything wrong with articles on the history of games between Tier 2 nations - generally they are nations with a well-established RU setup and usually a decent history of matches. This article needs improvement though and if it does remain as a bare collection of stats I can see the case for deletion per User:Colapeninsula above. Could be merged with Antim Cup perhaps with some explanation of how that trophy relates to the overall fixture. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 13:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - as it currently stands, it fails WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. It should also be noted that WP:NRIVALRY states that sports rivalry (that's what this is, isn't it?) are not inherently notable and that such articles should satisfy the general notability guideline, and I can't find anything that suggest that this one does. Mentoz86 ( talk) 14:03, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep - Those two rugby teams are fast growing forces, they are the most powerful sides in Europe outside Six Nations. They regularly play in rugby world cup and have had some remarkable matches. There are some suggests, that this information could be included in Antim cup page (which is similar to Bledisloe Cup), but Antim cup isn't contested, when this countries play each other in World cup, or it's qualification. So that page doesn't and won't include many the matches between the teams. Those two nations have meet each other 17 times and they are regularly winning European cup of nations. Also there are similar to this, other tier 2 teams rivalry pages - USA VS Canada, or Fiji VS Samoa rivalries etc. So in my opinion this page definitely deserves to be kept and deleting it, would be quite disrespecting against Georgians and Romanians. Article has improved and there have been added more explanations about this rivalry. -- Woodmana ( talk) 01:26, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep -- The delete arguments are very weak. That these two nations are tier two is irrelevant. And this is clearly a "cohesive" topic. Is there a reason why this article can not be improved to the standard of say History of rugby union matches between France and New Zealand? The rivalry is obviously notable enough for the Antim Cup to have been commissioned. The main problem is going to be finding English language sources, but I'd be shocked if there are not a number of sources in both Georgian and Romanian. The input of Romanian or Georgian speakers would be great. -- Shudde talk 01:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, | Uncle Milty | talk | 15:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- Keep in addition to all the arguments above, the fact that the teams have a separate cup dedicated to the winner of the rivalry match between the two national teams suggests that the matchup is notable. TonyBallioni ( talk) 19:09, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- Keep This is not a random choice of two teams who sometimes stumble across each other in international competition - there are very good reasons why their matches should be notable in themselves and as pointed out, the very fact that a cup was established for the purpose confirms that. They are the most successful teams in their region and in the European Nations Cup. As for it duplicating the Antim Cup article, clearly it does not and if anything the case would be for that to be merged into this one, so the deletion argument fails there. What is needed is more text, but the sources will exist for that. -- AJHingston ( talk) 00:57, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. SarahStierch ( talk) 03:27, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania
- History of rugby union matches between Georgia and Romania ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence of this being a cohesive, notable subject. The article seems to consist entirely of statistics and original research. - Mr X 16:00, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Romania-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. - Mr X 16:05, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (country)-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Rugby union-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 00:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Probably delete It fails WP:NOTSTATSBOOK as it stands. Sporting rivalries can be notable with enough media coverage, and there is an article Antim Cup about a trophy for matches between the two countries, so there's some notability to these games, but I don't think we need 2 articles which largely cover the same matches. If someone will expand it with detailed textual information on the rivalry, I would reconsider, but even then such information might be included in Antim Cup. -- Colapeninsula ( talk) 10:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - Matches between two Tier 2 nations are not notable enough to record in such a manner. – Pee Jay 12:25, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep - Both teams have played at the top most level, the Rugby World Cup and thus I feel are good enough to have this page. Teams that have been in the Top 20 consistently should all have a similar page provided they have played each other 10 times atleast and Georgia and Romania have played each other 17 times so it should be kept provided it gets updated with information from some of these games....-- Stemoc ( talk) 12:48, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep provided the article is improved - I don't see anything wrong with articles on the history of games between Tier 2 nations - generally they are nations with a well-established RU setup and usually a decent history of matches. This article needs improvement though and if it does remain as a bare collection of stats I can see the case for deletion per User:Colapeninsula above. Could be merged with Antim Cup perhaps with some explanation of how that trophy relates to the overall fixture. -- Bcp67 ( talk) 13:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Delete - as it currently stands, it fails WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. It should also be noted that WP:NRIVALRY states that sports rivalry (that's what this is, isn't it?) are not inherently notable and that such articles should satisfy the general notability guideline, and I can't find anything that suggest that this one does. Mentoz86 ( talk) 14:03, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep - Those two rugby teams are fast growing forces, they are the most powerful sides in Europe outside Six Nations. They regularly play in rugby world cup and have had some remarkable matches. There are some suggests, that this information could be included in Antim cup page (which is similar to Bledisloe Cup), but Antim cup isn't contested, when this countries play each other in World cup, or it's qualification. So that page doesn't and won't include many the matches between the teams. Those two nations have meet each other 17 times and they are regularly winning European cup of nations. Also there are similar to this, other tier 2 teams rivalry pages - USA VS Canada, or Fiji VS Samoa rivalries etc. So in my opinion this page definitely deserves to be kept and deleting it, would be quite disrespecting against Georgians and Romanians. Article has improved and there have been added more explanations about this rivalry. -- Woodmana ( talk) 01:26, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
- Keep -- The delete arguments are very weak. That these two nations are tier two is irrelevant. And this is clearly a "cohesive" topic. Is there a reason why this article can not be improved to the standard of say History of rugby union matches between France and New Zealand? The rivalry is obviously notable enough for the Antim Cup to have been commissioned. The main problem is going to be finding English language sources, but I'd be shocked if there are not a number of sources in both Georgian and Romanian. The input of Romanian or Georgian speakers would be great. -- Shudde talk 01:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
-
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, | Uncle Milty | talk | 15:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- Keep in addition to all the arguments above, the fact that the teams have a separate cup dedicated to the winner of the rivalry match between the two national teams suggests that the matchup is notable. TonyBallioni ( talk) 19:09, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- Keep This is not a random choice of two teams who sometimes stumble across each other in international competition - there are very good reasons why their matches should be notable in themselves and as pointed out, the very fact that a cup was established for the purpose confirms that. They are the most successful teams in their region and in the European Nations Cup. As for it duplicating the Antim Cup article, clearly it does not and if anything the case would be for that to be merged into this one, so the deletion argument fails there. What is needed is more text, but the sources will exist for that. -- AJHingston ( talk) 00:57, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.