- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Without prejudice to a possible re-creation as suggested by Hoary. Randykitty ( talk) 12:58, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hiroshi Nagae ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Rationale borrowed from my previous similar AfD of Keizaburō Saeki, which itself was largely borrowed from Cckerberos (no ping as he's no longer active) at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hideki Kasai. Keizaburō Saeki, Hideki Kasai, and this currently-nominated article are all identical bot-created articles.
To quote Cckerberos: "This article is a generic stub, generated by a bot in 2007. It makes no specific claim to notability; it appears that similar stubs were created for every photographer listed in 328 Outstanding Japanese Photographers, all with the format "Name (years) is a renowned Japanese photographer" (compare the nominated article with Gen Ōtsuka, for example). Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography states that the sole criteria for inclusion in the book was to have a single photograph in the museum's permanent collection at the time the book was published. That doesn't seem to meet WP:CREATIVE."
In addition to Cckerberos's excellent commentary, I'll note that I've done as thorough a WP:BEFORE check as possible for an English-speaker: Google searches of both the English and Japanese order of the English transliteration of his name. I have also checked the Japanese name. In this case I found no Google book results. He is absent from the reasonably thorough The History of Japanese Photography as well as Photography in Japan 1853-1912. The Japanese Wikipedia has no article about him, so there are no sources to be borrowed from it. I searched his Japanese name there and found nothing in any other article.
In the absence of reliable sources, we cannot verify that this person is notable, so the article, like many of the previous bot-generated photographers before it, should be deleted. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 04:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Forgot the courtesy ping to Hoary, who is knowledgeable on the topic of Japanese photographers, and whose commentary on these AfDs is invaluable to me, especially when it causes me to alter my opinion. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 04:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Oh, hello? Nagae isn't well known these days even among the (fairly high) number of 328. He's probably most noteworthy for a prewar project of photographing 国宝, national treasures. These are usually photographed in the most reverent way; and, given the ideological climate of the period in which Nagae did this, it's inconceivable that he'd have photographed them otherwise. If the photographs lack irreverence or originality, it's most unlikely that they'll cause a stir if republished or reexhibited. This being so, it's unlikely that anybody would want to develop this article. Meanwhile, for search engines to suggest that there's an article on Nagae and for there to be no more than the feeblest stub is an annoyance. Delete without prejudicing any later attempt to create a worthwhile article on the man. -- Hoary ( talk) 06:16, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 06:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 06:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete as there's little chance of expansion beyond the current substub, unfortunately. Bakazaka ( talk) 09:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Without prejudice to a possible re-creation as suggested by Hoary. Randykitty ( talk) 12:58, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hiroshi Nagae ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Rationale borrowed from my previous similar AfD of Keizaburō Saeki, which itself was largely borrowed from Cckerberos (no ping as he's no longer active) at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hideki Kasai. Keizaburō Saeki, Hideki Kasai, and this currently-nominated article are all identical bot-created articles.
To quote Cckerberos: "This article is a generic stub, generated by a bot in 2007. It makes no specific claim to notability; it appears that similar stubs were created for every photographer listed in 328 Outstanding Japanese Photographers, all with the format "Name (years) is a renowned Japanese photographer" (compare the nominated article with Gen Ōtsuka, for example). Tokyo Metropolitan Museum of Photography states that the sole criteria for inclusion in the book was to have a single photograph in the museum's permanent collection at the time the book was published. That doesn't seem to meet WP:CREATIVE."
In addition to Cckerberos's excellent commentary, I'll note that I've done as thorough a WP:BEFORE check as possible for an English-speaker: Google searches of both the English and Japanese order of the English transliteration of his name. I have also checked the Japanese name. In this case I found no Google book results. He is absent from the reasonably thorough The History of Japanese Photography as well as Photography in Japan 1853-1912. The Japanese Wikipedia has no article about him, so there are no sources to be borrowed from it. I searched his Japanese name there and found nothing in any other article.
In the absence of reliable sources, we cannot verify that this person is notable, so the article, like many of the previous bot-generated photographers before it, should be deleted. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 04:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Forgot the courtesy ping to Hoary, who is knowledgeable on the topic of Japanese photographers, and whose commentary on these AfDs is invaluable to me, especially when it causes me to alter my opinion. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 04:57, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Oh, hello? Nagae isn't well known these days even among the (fairly high) number of 328. He's probably most noteworthy for a prewar project of photographing 国宝, national treasures. These are usually photographed in the most reverent way; and, given the ideological climate of the period in which Nagae did this, it's inconceivable that he'd have photographed them otherwise. If the photographs lack irreverence or originality, it's most unlikely that they'll cause a stir if republished or reexhibited. This being so, it's unlikely that anybody would want to develop this article. Meanwhile, for search engines to suggest that there's an article on Nagae and for there to be no more than the feeblest stub is an annoyance. Delete without prejudicing any later attempt to create a worthwhile article on the man. -- Hoary ( talk) 06:16, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Photography-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 06:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. Bakazaka ( talk) 06:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete as there's little chance of expansion beyond the current substub, unfortunately. Bakazaka ( talk) 09:45, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.