- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Bulletin board system. Liz Read! Talk! 06:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Hermes (BBS)
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- Hermes (BBS) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced article about an BBS software which does not seem to meet the requirements of WP:GNG. McMatter ( talk)/( contrib) 03:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. McMatter ( talk)/( contrib) 03:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:51, 4 February 2023 (UTC)- Haven't been able to find any reliable source. What a shame. Pretty nice article. DFlhb ( talk) 16:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to
List of BBS software or
Bulletin board system - I was unable to find significant coverage. The deepest information on the Hermes software appears to be
this page, maintained by Michael Alyn Miller. I emailed the author to see if sources are available with that history. Hermes is notably not listed in the index of "Internet BBSs" (Mark 1996). Other stuff I've found: A passing mention in a paragraph about a technology system.
[1] Passing mention as a public BBS system in a 2005 sweep of exposed systems.
[2] Note: there is another project from around the same time called the "Project Hermes" that appeared to be an attempt to make US Supreme Court decisions available electronically.
Suriname0 (
talk)
18:24, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support merge, which would allow the contents to remain in this article's history, so that it could be potentially brought back if more substantial sourcing is found in the future. DFlhb ( talk) 09:24, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - In an email, Michael Alyn Miller says: "I cobbled that history page together from various records on Olympus (the "official" Hermes support BBS) and maybe some web searching, I can’t remember exactly. I also have many years of FidoNet archives stashed away somewhere and I wouldn’t be surprised if I grabbed some of these dates from there. I am sure that there are (physical) records out there putting dates on some of this stuff. The early Mac “BBS” scene manifested itself in a few conferences like Mactivity (ca. 1995) that *maybe* the Hermes folks would have exhibited at? I thought I still had my handouts from those conferences, but they didn’t turn up in a quick scan of my office." I'm still in correspondence. Suriname0 ( talk) 02:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Reasonable source identified by Michael Alyn Miller.
[3]
Suriname0 (
talk)
00:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Found a few more: [1] [2], [3] (his name is William "Frank" Price, that's not a typo).
- There's also relatively brief mention, about a half paragraph, in the 1992 "Dr. Macintosh's Guide to to the On-line Universe", page 225; part of it says "it's not as solid or as feature-laden as the alternatives", but is "fine for learning how a BBS works". Not linking but it's easy to find online. DFlhb ( talk) 01:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Reasonable source identified by Michael Alyn Miller.
[3]
Suriname0 (
talk)
00:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
References
-
^ MODIN, JÖRGEN (June 1995).
"COOCOM: New ways of using Information Technology for buildings design and management" (PDF). Project SBUF 2087.
Some BBS systems can communicate with each other and with Internet. FidoNet is a world-wide BBS system based on hierarchically arranged nodes of BBS's communicating over phone lines. The BBS system chosen was Hermes (Price F & Yount Ralph, 1991), a character-based popular billboard system running on the Mac, but accessible from any computer system with VT100 terminal emulation. Test drives between KBS-media Lab and Skanska Software showed the user interface too difficult to use for business.
- ^ Shipley, Peter, and Simson L. Garfinkel. "An analysis of dial-up modems and vulnerabilities." Copyright Spring (2001).
-
^ Gram-Reefer, Bill (January 1994).
"Macintosh BBS News".
Boardwatch Magazine.
Since acquiring the venerable Hermes Macintosh BBS program last Spring, new owner Lloyd Woodall of Computer Classifieds has developed a major upgrade package. Programmer Robert Rebbun has added over 70 new features and enhancements to this widely used program that now supports color ANSI graphic menus in addition to ASCII menus.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. There seems to be a consensus that this article should be Merged with another existing article but I'd like to see more input on which target article it should be. Otherwise it's a matter of my picking one over another which gets us into the dreaded "supervote" realm.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:58, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge - what little can/should be merged to Bulletin board system. It seems to have some relevance to the history of the concept of the BBS which would give it some relevance there. List of BBS software's lede specifically notes that the list is "a list of notable bulletin board system (BBS) software packages" which if it's being merged due to lack of notability, wouldn't belong there. - Aoidh ( talk) 01:45, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Bulletin board system. Liz Read! Talk! 06:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
Hermes (BBS)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Hermes (BBS) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced article about an BBS software which does not seem to meet the requirements of WP:GNG. McMatter ( talk)/( contrib) 03:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. McMatter ( talk)/( contrib) 03:08, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:51, 4 February 2023 (UTC)- Haven't been able to find any reliable source. What a shame. Pretty nice article. DFlhb ( talk) 16:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to
List of BBS software or
Bulletin board system - I was unable to find significant coverage. The deepest information on the Hermes software appears to be
this page, maintained by Michael Alyn Miller. I emailed the author to see if sources are available with that history. Hermes is notably not listed in the index of "Internet BBSs" (Mark 1996). Other stuff I've found: A passing mention in a paragraph about a technology system.
[1] Passing mention as a public BBS system in a 2005 sweep of exposed systems.
[2] Note: there is another project from around the same time called the "Project Hermes" that appeared to be an attempt to make US Supreme Court decisions available electronically.
Suriname0 (
talk)
18:24, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
- Support merge, which would allow the contents to remain in this article's history, so that it could be potentially brought back if more substantial sourcing is found in the future. DFlhb ( talk) 09:24, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - In an email, Michael Alyn Miller says: "I cobbled that history page together from various records on Olympus (the "official" Hermes support BBS) and maybe some web searching, I can’t remember exactly. I also have many years of FidoNet archives stashed away somewhere and I wouldn’t be surprised if I grabbed some of these dates from there. I am sure that there are (physical) records out there putting dates on some of this stuff. The early Mac “BBS” scene manifested itself in a few conferences like Mactivity (ca. 1995) that *maybe* the Hermes folks would have exhibited at? I thought I still had my handouts from those conferences, but they didn’t turn up in a quick scan of my office." I'm still in correspondence. Suriname0 ( talk) 02:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
- Reasonable source identified by Michael Alyn Miller.
[3]
Suriname0 (
talk)
00:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Found a few more: [1] [2], [3] (his name is William "Frank" Price, that's not a typo).
- There's also relatively brief mention, about a half paragraph, in the 1992 "Dr. Macintosh's Guide to to the On-line Universe", page 225; part of it says "it's not as solid or as feature-laden as the alternatives", but is "fine for learning how a BBS works". Not linking but it's easy to find online. DFlhb ( talk) 01:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
- Reasonable source identified by Michael Alyn Miller.
[3]
Suriname0 (
talk)
00:28, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
References
-
^ MODIN, JÖRGEN (June 1995).
"COOCOM: New ways of using Information Technology for buildings design and management" (PDF). Project SBUF 2087.
Some BBS systems can communicate with each other and with Internet. FidoNet is a world-wide BBS system based on hierarchically arranged nodes of BBS's communicating over phone lines. The BBS system chosen was Hermes (Price F & Yount Ralph, 1991), a character-based popular billboard system running on the Mac, but accessible from any computer system with VT100 terminal emulation. Test drives between KBS-media Lab and Skanska Software showed the user interface too difficult to use for business.
- ^ Shipley, Peter, and Simson L. Garfinkel. "An analysis of dial-up modems and vulnerabilities." Copyright Spring (2001).
-
^ Gram-Reefer, Bill (January 1994).
"Macintosh BBS News".
Boardwatch Magazine.
Since acquiring the venerable Hermes Macintosh BBS program last Spring, new owner Lloyd Woodall of Computer Classifieds has developed a major upgrade package. Programmer Robert Rebbun has added over 70 new features and enhancements to this widely used program that now supports color ANSI graphic menus in addition to ASCII menus.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. There seems to be a consensus that this article should be Merged with another existing article but I'd like to see more input on which target article it should be. Otherwise it's a matter of my picking one over another which gets us into the dreaded "supervote" realm.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:58, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge - what little can/should be merged to Bulletin board system. It seems to have some relevance to the history of the concept of the BBS which would give it some relevance there. List of BBS software's lede specifically notes that the list is "a list of notable bulletin board system (BBS) software packages" which if it's being merged due to lack of notability, wouldn't belong there. - Aoidh ( talk) 01:45, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.