- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I feel very ambivalent about this closure as it's not clear that all participants are talking about the same location. But the consensus here is to Keep this article and improve it so that it is more clear where this town is located and there is a commitment from at least one editor to work on clarifying the confusion that seems to exist. Liz Read! Talk! 03:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
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- Growler, Arizona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non notable railroad siding/depot mislabeled as a populated place. – dlthewave ☎ 03:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Arizona. – dlthewave ☎ 03:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. I see nothing here but a rail siding, the name of which got dumped into GNIS. No community. MB 04:34, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Agree – S. Rich ( talk) 06:40, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep literally hundreds of articles on this former mining camp/town from 1907 through the 1950s. And according to this article, the town at one point had several hundred residents. It's a slog going through a search on Newspapers.com due to a common term, "growlers", Onel5969 TT me 10:31, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
-
Onel5969 That's a different (although possibly notable) location entirely. It's located within
Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument; we're discussing a place in Yuma County. –
dlthewave
☎
12:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- No, it's the same place, the GNIS was simply wrong, if the article is kept I'll make the necessary changes. A lot of the older AZ places are confused in the GNIS system.
Onel5969
TT me
12:43, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Would you be willing to correct the location information at the very least, so that folks know which place we're talking about? We don't need to get into a debate over it, but I would note that the coordinates in the article point to a siding labelled "Growler" on older topo maps and I did come across a few articles mentioning it as a spot on the Union Pacific between Phoenix and Yuma so it's fairly likely we're looking at two different places. – dlthewave ☎ 18:45, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- No, it's the same place, the GNIS was simply wrong, if the article is kept I'll make the necessary changes. A lot of the older AZ places are confused in the GNIS system.
Onel5969
TT me
12:43, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
-
Onel5969 That's a different (although possibly notable) location entirely. It's located within
Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument; we're discussing a place in Yuma County. –
dlthewave
☎
12:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- delete The Pima County spot is the Growler Mine Area, an NRHP location which, as you can see, hasn't had an article written yet; see [1] for the submission. As soon as I get time, I'll try to write this spot up, but the rail location is just a rail spot. Mangoe ( talk) 00:58, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Like Onel5969, I am finding lots of articles on newspapers.com, some of which are WP:SIGCOV. Certainly meets WP:GEOLAND, meets WP:GNG. Jacona ( talk) 19:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- I distrust these hits given that the Pima County location appears to be more notable. Mangoe ( talk) 16:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Whilst there is a 'Growler' in Arizona that merits an article per WP:GEOLAND, the source that Onel found says that Growler, AZ, is 27 miles southwest of Ajo and the current subject is not notable per nom. There is no way that the article as written referrs to that since the location is clearly to its northwest and not its southwest; the NRHP thing Mangoe found supports the location of Growler to be there. I assume Dlthewave knows what they're talking about when they say that Growler existed as a railway stop on topo maps so it's not just that the GNIS got it wrong, but putting the place in Organ Pipe Nat'l monument in the article, replacing the current subject, would also be fine. Since Onel is willing to do the necessary changes, my concerns are assuaged. — Danre98( talk^ contribs) 18:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep, I guess. This AFD is confusing, as are other AFDs on GNIS locations where there are too confident declarations that a place "is merely a railroad siding", "no community", "I agree" etc. until that all turns out to be false, a high percentage of the time. No problem, just move on to the next AFD and say the same stuff. I just added NRHP infobox and NRHP reference, on understanding this is the "Growler Mine Area" that is listed on the National Register, and notable. The article currently states it is a populated place (currently), which is false though, because as far as i know it is a former community. WTF r u guys doing? -- Doncram ( talk) 10:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I feel very ambivalent about this closure as it's not clear that all participants are talking about the same location. But the consensus here is to Keep this article and improve it so that it is more clear where this town is located and there is a commitment from at least one editor to work on clarifying the confusion that seems to exist. Liz Read! Talk! 03:36, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Growler, Arizona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non notable railroad siding/depot mislabeled as a populated place. – dlthewave ☎ 03:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Arizona. – dlthewave ☎ 03:08, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. I see nothing here but a rail siding, the name of which got dumped into GNIS. No community. MB 04:34, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Agree – S. Rich ( talk) 06:40, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep literally hundreds of articles on this former mining camp/town from 1907 through the 1950s. And according to this article, the town at one point had several hundred residents. It's a slog going through a search on Newspapers.com due to a common term, "growlers", Onel5969 TT me 10:31, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
-
Onel5969 That's a different (although possibly notable) location entirely. It's located within
Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument; we're discussing a place in Yuma County. –
dlthewave
☎
12:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- No, it's the same place, the GNIS was simply wrong, if the article is kept I'll make the necessary changes. A lot of the older AZ places are confused in the GNIS system.
Onel5969
TT me
12:43, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- Would you be willing to correct the location information at the very least, so that folks know which place we're talking about? We don't need to get into a debate over it, but I would note that the coordinates in the article point to a siding labelled "Growler" on older topo maps and I did come across a few articles mentioning it as a spot on the Union Pacific between Phoenix and Yuma so it's fairly likely we're looking at two different places. – dlthewave ☎ 18:45, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- No, it's the same place, the GNIS was simply wrong, if the article is kept I'll make the necessary changes. A lot of the older AZ places are confused in the GNIS system.
Onel5969
TT me
12:43, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
-
Onel5969 That's a different (although possibly notable) location entirely. It's located within
Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument; we're discussing a place in Yuma County. –
dlthewave
☎
12:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
- delete The Pima County spot is the Growler Mine Area, an NRHP location which, as you can see, hasn't had an article written yet; see [1] for the submission. As soon as I get time, I'll try to write this spot up, but the rail location is just a rail spot. Mangoe ( talk) 00:58, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep. Like Onel5969, I am finding lots of articles on newspapers.com, some of which are WP:SIGCOV. Certainly meets WP:GEOLAND, meets WP:GNG. Jacona ( talk) 19:27, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- I distrust these hits given that the Pima County location appears to be more notable. Mangoe ( talk) 16:25, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:35, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Whilst there is a 'Growler' in Arizona that merits an article per WP:GEOLAND, the source that Onel found says that Growler, AZ, is 27 miles southwest of Ajo and the current subject is not notable per nom. There is no way that the article as written referrs to that since the location is clearly to its northwest and not its southwest; the NRHP thing Mangoe found supports the location of Growler to be there. I assume Dlthewave knows what they're talking about when they say that Growler existed as a railway stop on topo maps so it's not just that the GNIS got it wrong, but putting the place in Organ Pipe Nat'l monument in the article, replacing the current subject, would also be fine. Since Onel is willing to do the necessary changes, my concerns are assuaged. — Danre98( talk^ contribs) 18:12, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Keep, I guess. This AFD is confusing, as are other AFDs on GNIS locations where there are too confident declarations that a place "is merely a railroad siding", "no community", "I agree" etc. until that all turns out to be false, a high percentage of the time. No problem, just move on to the next AFD and say the same stuff. I just added NRHP infobox and NRHP reference, on understanding this is the "Growler Mine Area" that is listed on the National Register, and notable. The article currently states it is a populated place (currently), which is false though, because as far as i know it is a former community. WTF r u guys doing? -- Doncram ( talk) 10:20, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.