- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 03:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Grand Naniloa Hotel
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Grand Naniloa Hotel ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A hotel with no special claim to notability. Despite tagging for better references, none have been forthcoming with the SPA author persistently removing the maintenance templates without providing the requested sources. The two sources that do exist are highly promotional. Searches find all the usual advertisements and booking sites but nothing independent and reliable. Fails WP:GNG Velella Velella Talk 08:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- I am surprised, and a bit embarrassed, to have to spend time in Wikipedia to discuss one of the State of Hawaii's second largest city's premier sights/sites ( Banyan Drive, Grand Naniloa Hotel, Coconut Island (Hawaii Island) and Queen Liliuokalani Park and Gardens that are all close to each other). By Yoshi Canopus ( talk) 21:19, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hawaii-related deletion discussions. Velella Velella Talk 08:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Article is not promotional in tone; article asserts/establishes significance/importance. Maintenance tagging might be appropriate to retain; seems like there is possibly a behaviorial issue going on between deletion nominator and another editor who might better be coached rather than fought by edit war and opening AFD, which is by its nature a very negative arcane process seemingly designed to drive away relatively inexperienced editors from Wikipedia. I have not reviewed the editors' interactions at all though. Topic seems Wikipedia-notable. -- Doncram ( talk) 05:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 05:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, b uidh e 03:20, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: I added a bit, including another source, an infobox with coordinates and map (though for some reason the dot location doesn't show on the map, help?). Contrary to deletion nomination claim, there is plenty of "special claim of notability": "It is the largest hotel in this State of Hawaii's second largest city, and has the longest history as a hotel on Hawaii Island." Built at least in part by 1939, there will exist plenty about this in off-line and on-line sources such as travel and architectural magazines, island histories, and travel guidebooks (which can be very reliable, substantial sources, please spare us any complaint that Wikipedia is not a travel guidebook itself... yes of course the article should not be too promotional and it should not include directory-type info such as the hours of its notable native Hawaiian style restaurant, and the Crown Room nightclub, etc.). wp:ITSAPUBLICATTRACTION is an extremely excellent related essay. -- Doncram ( talk) 02:00, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Click on the Google books search link above to reach:
Fodor's Essential Hawaiibooks.google.com › books Fodor's Travel Guides - 2018 FOUND INSIDE Grand Naniloa Hotel–A Doubletree by Hilton. $ HOTEL FAMILY Hilo isn't known for its fancy resort hotels, but the recently renovated Grand Naniloa Hotel attempts to remedy that situation in grand fashion. Pros: within walking distance of ...
Lonely Planet Hawaii the Big Islandbooks.google.com › books Lonely Planet, Adam Karlin, Luci Yamamoto - 2017 FOUND INSIDE Willie K's Gig at the Crown Room LIVE MUSIC ( MAP GOOGLE MAP ; %808-969-3333; www.grandnaniloahilo.com/crownroom; 93 Banyan Dr, Grand Naniloa Hotel) A go-to music venue in the '80s, the Crown Room at the Grand Naniloa Hotel ...
Insight Guides Explore Hawaii (Travel Guide eBook)books.google.com › books Insight Guides - 2019 FOUND INSIDE ... Waikoloa; tel: 808-886 1234; www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com; $$$ Yes, there actually are dolphins in the lagoon at this 62-acre (25-hectare) mega-resort, and you can pay to swim with them. Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo 93 Banyan Drive, Hilo; ...
- etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. -- Doncram ( talk) 02:04, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - Travel guides and similar publications such as those linked and mentioned above, are not reliable sources. They are often paid to publish content and even when they are not, their opinions are slanted to helping travellers find accommodation. Thus such reviews simply attest to the fact that the Hotel exists and is within a certain prive range but not that they are notable
Velella
Velella Talk 03:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree, and so have numerous others who have commented about Fodors, Lonely Planet, other reliable travel guide sources, for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to travelers, why they should go see them, etc., and they tend to be very reliable because they are very well-scrutinized and checked and corrected, especially after the first edition...and these are in their 100th or so editions. I believe this will have been covered at wp:RSN many times, too. You apparently have a different view, which is okay, we can have different views, and I probably won't reply further about this point. -- Doncram ( talk) 04:11, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:39, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Travel guides are considered tertiary and therefore primary sources due to being original research. Per WP:TERTIARYUSE. -- Adamant1 (signature was omitted, was added by me. -- Doncram ( talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC))
- What a bizarre statement. "tertiary therefore primary"?!?! Offhand, I can see that travel guides can contain "original research" such as "on the day I visited, the cheesecake was excellent", but in general in their coverage of basic history and importance of places, it is the farthest from original research as can be. I see that
wp:TERTIARYUSE is an essay, and I tried to read it but it does not make any sense at all, IMHO. --
Doncram (
talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm just telling you what the essay said, I'm not really concerned with how bizarre it is or not, but it makes sense to me. If that's what you think though, maybe
Wikipedia:No original research which is a policy would be better. It says "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event." In other words, exactly the same thing. with travel guides, no where in that I saw in this AfD was anyone saying travel guides should be used only for just obtaining basic factual information. There's more reliable sources to get that information anyway, but looking at the discussion you said "for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to traveler." What is "important/substantial" about a location is relative to the travel guide. That's why they are called "guides." Travel writing is not a science, where each location is put through rigorous testing to make sure it meets some universal standard of what constitutes a substantial or important place. Even the best travel are just glorified opinion columnists and no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place. There's zero wrong with that, it just doesn't work here. Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place. Which destroys their neutrality. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 20:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- "no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place", or put another way "(often,) no two scientists/historians/journalists/writers etc have the exact same opinion of a ...", "Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place." or "Especially since they often (or always) receive perks (or salaries/payments/quedos) for writing about ...". Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:51, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm just telling you what the essay said, I'm not really concerned with how bizarre it is or not, but it makes sense to me. If that's what you think though, maybe
Wikipedia:No original research which is a policy would be better. It says "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event." In other words, exactly the same thing. with travel guides, no where in that I saw in this AfD was anyone saying travel guides should be used only for just obtaining basic factual information. There's more reliable sources to get that information anyway, but looking at the discussion you said "for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to traveler." What is "important/substantial" about a location is relative to the travel guide. That's why they are called "guides." Travel writing is not a science, where each location is put through rigorous testing to make sure it meets some universal standard of what constitutes a substantial or important place. Even the best travel are just glorified opinion columnists and no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place. There's zero wrong with that, it just doesn't work here. Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place. Which destroys their neutrality. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 20:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- What a bizarre statement. "tertiary therefore primary"?!?! Offhand, I can see that travel guides can contain "original research" such as "on the day I visited, the cheesecake was excellent", but in general in their coverage of basic history and importance of places, it is the farthest from original research as can be. I see that
wp:TERTIARYUSE is an essay, and I tried to read it but it does not make any sense at all, IMHO. --
Doncram (
talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment. Well, this is a major hotel which has been a fixture of the Hilo community since the 1940s, and has business history and events there. Due to its location on prime land on Hilo Bay, actually Hawaii-owned land, and near the airport, it has been tied in more than others i suppose. Much news coverage around its opening in 1940 and its major buildings in 1966 and major renovation in 2014 or so, much of this off-line I suppose. Searching for news coverage requires wading through lots and lots. But here are various bits:
- this Hawaii Magazine article.
- This Oyster.com article goes on in detail.
- U.S. News & World Reports ranks it #7 among Big Island hotels
- Hula Hulas restaurant is apparently the social hub of Hilo.
- K.T. Summer says it's great, and shows photo of Lyndon B. Johnson there, and news clippings from 1940 when it was built by the Island Hotels Company, when 2200 travel agencies were involved in a promotion. George Applegate, with the hotel since 1956 (before Hawaii became a U.S. state in 1959), speaks of lobbying to get the the Hilo airport built (I think he means its expansion from being a small World War II airfield), and Pan Am being the first commercial airline in, then 7 airlines, etc. At about 2:45 in 7 minute video is 8 page newspaper clipping about the Naniloa Hotel. Ed Bushor is the new owner, led renovation, gives detail which can be used in developing article. * Hawaii.Com is another that mentions the $4 million of Kim Taylor Reece art installed. About "the hotel’s exclusive concert hall – the historic Willie K’s Crown Room. Once revered as the premier music venue of the ’80s in Hilo, Willie K’s Crown Room has been restored and fully revamped" and seats 400. ( Willie K is great by the way.) The Hula Halau Ke ‘Olu Makani ‘O Mauna Loa dancers practice on the hotel grounds. It is listed on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America (i'm not sure what that is, but it's a good thing i think).
- Bushor goes on about the hula theme of the revamped hotel, and about the goal being to give the property back to the community, and for it does seem that hula is highly associated with Hilo, what with the Merrie Monarch Festival and more.
- This mentions the hula dancers regular practicing there, too, and calls it the "Grand Naniloa Resort, a Doubletree by Hilton", another term to search on.
- here is 2016 article at Pacific Business News covers a possible further expansion/purchase of adjacent hotel property. The land underneath both hotels is not owned by the hotels, but rather is leased by Hawai'i Department of Land and Natural Resources. The Naniloa hotel is owned by "WHR, the holding group formed by the Edmund C. Olson Trust and Hawaii developer Ed Bushor’s Tower Development, own the former Hilo Naniloa Hotel, recently re-opened the hotel as a DoubleTree by Hilton after a $30 million renovation. Aqua-Aston Hospitality is managing the hotel, whose land under it is owned by DLNR."
- Oh, it was the Hilo Naniloa until recently, need to search on that.
- Historic postcards of it from the 1960s refer to it as Naniloa Hotel Hilo Bay, or just as Naniloa Hotel
- In 2018, it seems like that other hotel is to be demolished, per this very long DNLR report, which documents the buildings in the area (obviously especially the ones to be demolished), but also the history of Banyan Drive built in the 1930s, the flora and fauna, local archeology of heiaus, etc. It notes the Naniloa Hotel is on two parcels, and that its 9-hole golf course is on 3 or 4 or 5 more parcels.
- There was a $21,000 theft by employee(s), and a related manager lawsuit, reported in 2018 by the Hawaii Tribune Herald.
- Check out the streaming webcam view of the hotel's waterfront, from the top of one of the buildings.
- It is one of only 5 hotels remaining open in face of virus, March 28, 2020, per Hawaii Tribune Herald.
- Koi Nobori were to fly at the hotel and other Banyan Drive locations in a huge festival of Koi Nobori in 2019.
- There was news coverage of the 1940 opening of course, including Opening of Naniloa Hotel in Honolulu Star-Bulletin, Honolulu, Hawaii, 06 Feb 1940.
- There were numerous congratulatory ads, upon 1940 opening of the hotel. And this blog reproduces opening day announcement, too.
- The original 1940s hotel was replaced by modern structures in 1966.
- Camp Tarawa Then and Now – Historic Hawaii Foundation reports that, during World War II, "The old Naniloa Hotel along Banyan Drive was where USO entertainers stayed when they came to entertain the Marines on the island."
- December 1944 edition of Paradise of the Pacific (oldest magazine in Hawaii), shows hotel, describes it as a jewel, and gives full text of "Naniloa Hotel Lanai", a 1944 poem, as accompaniment to "A Pretty Girl is Like a Melody" about USO girls.
- The property was hit by the 1946 tsunami (which killed 173 in Hilo) and the 1964 tsunami and was water-damaged, but was not hit severely as other places in Hilo.
I'll stop with those. There exists plenty of news coverage over the years, this is not a minor family small hotel, it is important in business/social history. -- Doncram ( talk) 23:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- listings of post cards on Ebay that feature it and the hotels website aren't news sources. At this point your just ref bombing and campaigning. Both of which you shouldn't be doing and won't lead to you getting your way either. So, hopefully you do actually stop with it. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 00:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete, I original had an opened mind and wanted to give this a chance, but all the subsequent barnstorming and ref bomb of things like Ebay listings of postcards to try to prove notability makes me less inclined to think this notable. If no reliable in-depth coverage has materialized in the month since this AfD was created and postcards on Ebay is mostly what we have instead, I strongly believe this isn't a notable subject and the article for it should be deleted. The lack of notability isn't surprising. As most hotels aren't notable. If this one was it would probably be on the national register of historic places or something, but it isn't. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 00:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: Well that seems peevish, to vote delete because there exist historic postcards about it. Right, you are closed in your mind to actually reading in the sources. I mention them in a kind of flip way above, but those are in fact distilled from hundreds of google hits, and do include some legit sources.
- And actually, it is indeed "on the national register of historic places or something"!!!! The
National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America is a legitimate thing, which i didn't know much about, but am now developing a list-article about it. It is an official program of the
National Trust for Historic Preservation, and members must be listed or eligible for the
National Register of Historic Places. And this Naniloa Hotel is one of those 266, listed on it in 2016. I don't know how/why it was deemed eligible for listing on the NRHP but was not in fact listed on the NRHP, but that does happen frequently for churches and hotels and other places which just choose not to be listed, perhaps to avoid scrutiny/review upon future renovations. And about hula, not only is the hotel involved in the
Merrie Monarch Festival which began in 1963, it actually "hosts this remarkable festival each year earning its nickname as the Home of Hula."(per
history of the hotel at HistoricHotels.org). --
Doncram (
talk) 01:02, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- That and the sources being trivial/unreliable, but mostly the trivial/unreliable thing. There is a proper way to go about this though, without the barnstorming/ref bombing, that usually leads to a better outcome. It's just the nature of the thing. At least that's what I've seen. Is it on the NRHP? It's not listed in
National Register of Historic Places listings on the island of Hawaii. Nor the actual NRHP site, or any other site that I can find. So, I'm pretty sure your wrong about that. Otherwise, I'd like to see a citation for it (the historichotels.org site has zero connection to the NRHP). --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- I think you need to take a deep breath and actually spend some time reviewing and researching what your looking through, and compare it to the guidelines in
WP:N to be it fits before you post it here. Otherwise, it's just throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and none of it will because your actually throwing sand, dry sand. Lots and lots of dry sand. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Not wrong. Um, I said it is eligible for, but not listed on the NRHP, while it was listed in 2016 on something like it, the NRHHA, which I said is a program of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Every listing of which I am pretty sure is going to be Wikipedia-notable, as they are all historic and recognized for being historically authentic. As I develop about the NRHHA i think i am going to find an existing article for most, but in some cases I have to start one, such as for
Strater Hotel in Durango, Colorado where I divided it out of a historic district article just now. The Naniloa is in pretty awesome company:
The Broadmoor,
Moana Hotel,
The Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel, etc. --
Doncram (
talk) 02:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Automatic Wikipedia notability based on the National Trust for Historic Preservation's opinion of what is historically significant is a hard nope. Their a private organization and them recognizing something as "historic" would be on the same level as a mid/lower tier, hardly deserving of notability, award. Which by no means do those guarantee anything notability wise. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 02:21, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Not wrong. Um, I said it is eligible for, but not listed on the NRHP, while it was listed in 2016 on something like it, the NRHHA, which I said is a program of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Every listing of which I am pretty sure is going to be Wikipedia-notable, as they are all historic and recognized for being historically authentic. As I develop about the NRHHA i think i am going to find an existing article for most, but in some cases I have to start one, such as for
Strater Hotel in Durango, Colorado where I divided it out of a historic district article just now. The Naniloa is in pretty awesome company:
The Broadmoor,
Moana Hotel,
The Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel, etc. --
Doncram (
talk) 02:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- I think you need to take a deep breath and actually spend some time reviewing and researching what your looking through, and compare it to the guidelines in
WP:N to be it fits before you post it here. Otherwise, it's just throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and none of it will because your actually throwing sand, dry sand. Lots and lots of dry sand. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- That and the sources being trivial/unreliable, but mostly the trivial/unreliable thing. There is a proper way to go about this though, without the barnstorming/ref bombing, that usually leads to a better outcome. It's just the nature of the thing. At least that's what I've seen. Is it on the NRHP? It's not listed in
National Register of Historic Places listings on the island of Hawaii. Nor the actual NRHP site, or any other site that I can find. So, I'm pretty sure your wrong about that. Otherwise, I'd like to see a citation for it (the historichotels.org site has zero connection to the NRHP). --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
- Cooper, Jeanne (2017-02-09). "Suite Spot: Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo". San Francisco Chronicle. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- "Editorial: Hotel sale holds promise for Hilo". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Cooper, Jeanne. "Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo—A DoubleTree by Hilton". Frommer's. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Gomes, Andrew (2015-08-18). "Brand-new start for an iconic inn". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Wenzel, Marty (2017-06-19). "Back in the spotlight: the renovated, rebranded Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo keeps culture alive on Hawaii Island's east side". TravelAge West. 52 (13). Northstar Travel Group. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- "Hawai'i: Hawai'i Island: beyond coffee, black sand and orchids". Travel Weekly. Northstar Travel Group. 2014-12-08. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Gomes, Andrew (2013-12-19). "Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel purchased for $7 million". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Schaefers, Allison (2013-11-13). "Bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel being sold to developer-artist duo". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Bair, Diane; Wright, Pamela (2017-03-09). "Turning up the heat in Hawaii". The Boston Globe. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Williams, Sue (2019-11-15). "Hilo, Hawaii: How the hula became a grass-skirted hip swaying dance". Traveller. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Inefuku, Terri (2016-11-11). "The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo completes $30 million renovation". KHON-TV. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Grand Naniloa Hotel to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".Sources with quotes- Cooper, Jeanne (2017-02-09).
"Suite Spot: Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo".
San Francisco Chronicle. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
Anywhere else, the rebranding of an iconic hotel might elicit yawns. But in Hawaii’s second-largest city, the addition of “A DoubleTree by Hilton” to the official name of the Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo has sparked excitement. Finally, the heart of East Hawaii has contemporary, clean lodgings that meet national standards, yet with a style that celebrates Hawaiian culture, thanks to $20 million in renovations to the 388 rooms and public areas, including two restaurants, a lobby bar and nightclub.
Lead investor Ed Bushor is equally proud of the hotel’s other new moniker, “The Home of Hula,” reflected in the hotel’s weekly free hula shows and classes, videos of Hilo’s renowned Merrie Monarch hula competition playing in the lobby, and Kim Taylor Reece’s black-and-white images of hula dancers nearly everywhere you huli (turn).
The setting: At the northern apex of wooded, hotel-lined Banyan Drive, overlooking Hilo Bay, the ocean and Reeds Bay, where cruise and cargo ships dock at one end and locals paddleboard at the other.
-
"Editorial: Hotel sale holds promise for Hilo".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The editorial notes:
A jewel that's been diminished in recent years, the troubled Hilo Naniloa Hotel now has a new lease on life, quite literally, with much potential for the property and for the economic vitality of nearby communities in East Hawaii. After years of decline, the bayfront hotel was bought this month in bankruptcy auction for $7 million by real estate developer Ed Bushor and partners, including marine artist Wyland and major Hawaii island landowner Ed Olson. To be rebranded the Naniloa Volcanoes Resort, its new owners have the deep pockets to spend $20 million on renovations and transform the property into a museum-like visitor attraction by New Year's 2015. What's good for the Naniloa, and the other hospitality purveyors along Hilo's scenic Banyan and Bayfront drives, is good for the economic well-being of East Hawaii. The 383-room hotel had been in Chapter 11 bankruptcy since November 2012, operating just 180 rooms in one tower after previous owner, Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc., ran into money trouble after renovations during the economic downturn several years ago. That company, led by Ken Fujiyama, had bought the Naniloa and its golf course on state land in a land-lease auction in 2006. Where the current hotel has hobbled along with a mere 20-30 percent occupancy rate employing just 35 workers, the revitalized property envisions employing 115 to 200 people. Having the Naniloa sale resolved -- especially involving such prominent names -- gives much-needed stability heading into mixed times for Hawaii's tourism industry.
- Cooper, Jeanne.
"Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo—A DoubleTree by Hilton".
Frommer's. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
This 12-story, thoroughly renovated oceanfront hotel with wonderful views of Hilo Bay has declared itself “the home of hula.” Renowned photographer Kim Taylor Reese’s images of hula dancers hang on virtually every wall, high-definition video of the “Merrie Monarch” hula competition plays in the new, open-air lobby, with a central bar.
- Gomes, Andrew (2015-08-18).
"Brand-new start for an iconic inn".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
A $20 million renovation and re-branding is set to begin for the Hilo Naniloa Hotel and Golf Club more than a year after a group of investors bought the struggling property on state land.
...
The Naniloa, which was built in 1966 on land leased from the state along Banyan Drive and includes a nine-hole golf course, fell on hard times after the Great Recession as former owner Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc. filed bankruptcy. It had acquired the property in 2006 and got caught in the economic downturn partway through a renovation plan.
Hotel operations at one point under Hawaii Outdoor lacked a functioning restaurant, had one of two pools closed and only 179 rooms in use. Occupancy fell to as low as 20 percent to 30 percent.
Hawaii Outdoor, led by Hilo businessman Ken Fujiyama, lost the property in a bankruptcy auction to a company led by real estate developer Ed Bushor that paid $7 million in December 2013.
- Wenzel, Marty (2017-06-19).
"Back in the spotlight: the renovated, rebranded Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo keeps culture alive on Hawaii Island's east side". TravelAge West. 52 (13).
Northstar Travel Group. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
Like the company's DoubleTree properties around the world, Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo--a DoubleTree by Hilton welcomes guests with warm chocolate chip cookies. But as soon as clients enter the new, open-air lobby with its views straight out to Hilo Bay, they know exactly where they stand. Fresh from a $30 million renovation, the 320-room Grand Naniloa makes a strong statement about its singularity and its setting on the east coast of Hawaii Island.
Formerly known as Hilo Naniloa Hotel, the 70-acre seaside landmark first opened in 1939, and by the 1950s and '60s, it had evolved into Hilo's most popular accommodation. Seasoned travelers were smitten with its location on Banyan Drive, a boulevard lined by banyan trees planted by baseball star Babe Ruth, former President Franklin D. Roosevelt and other celebrities. In subsequent decades, the hotel fell into disrepair and financial hardship until its purchase by Tower Development, which launched a three-year-long renovation. The restored property, managed by Aqua-Aston Hospitality, debuted in November 2016 as Hawaii Island's first DoubleTree by Hilton.
...
Since Grand Naniloa's accommodations were gutted and rebuilt, rooms now feature either floor-to-ceiling windows or lanais, and 90 percent boast ocean views. Guests enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi access, in-room microwaves and refrigerators, a 24-hour fitness center, free self-parking and free daily rounds on Hilo's nine-hole golf course. Soon, clients will be able to sip and sup at Grand Naniloa's bay-view bar and poolside restaurant, opening in August.
-
"Hawai'i: Hawai'i Island: beyond coffee, black sand and orchids".
Travel Weekly.
Northstar Travel Group. 2014-12-08. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
The Hilo Naniloa Hotel is the new name for Naniloa Volcanoes Resort, which was sold in a bankruptcy. Aqua Hospitality, based in Honolulu, will manage the 383-room resort and oversee its complete renovation, estimated to wrap by summer 2015. In the interim, 140 rooms will be available and services limited, but prices have been adjusted.
- Gomes, Andrew (2013-12-19).
"Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel purchased for $7 million".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
The Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel has a new owner and a new future as a marine art-themed vacation resort in Hilo. A company led by real estate developer Ed Bushor completed the purchase of the oceanfront hotel Tuesday. Work to revitalize the struggling property began quickly, with new landscaping planted in front of the hotel Tuesday and a 20-foot Christmas tree set up Wednesday. "It's looking like an operating hotel actually, instead of a desert like it used to be," Bushor said. Bushor, who bought the hotel for $7 million through a bankruptcy auction with partners, including marine artist Wyland and major Hawaii island landowner Ed Olson, plans to spend $20 million on renovations and make the property a museumlike visitor attraction.
- Schaefers, Allison (2013-11-13).
"Bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel being sold to developer-artist duo".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
Developer Ed Bushor and his longtime friend, marine artist Wyland, are buying the bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel for $5.2 million, a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge confirmed Tuesday.
The $5.2 million offer beat out an earlier unconfirmed bid for $3.7 million by Ramco Properties, owner of the Hilo Hawaiian, which is next door to the Naniloa. It also shut out other last-minute offers from two other developers, including Peter Savio, who owns Pagoda Hotels.
...
The Naniloa went into foreclosure last year after Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc. defaulted on a $10 million loan it used to buy the hotel, which sits on 71 acres of state leasehold land. Only 269 of the hotel's 333 rooms are in active service.
- Bair, Diane; Wright, Pamela (2017-03-09).
"Turning up the heat in Hawaii".
The Boston Globe. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
The Grand Naniloa Hotel — A Doubletree by Hilton is the place to stay in Hilo (855-610-8733, www.grandnaniloahilo.com; rooms starting at $149). The historic, 388-room property, with in-your-face views of Hilo Bay and the Mauna Kea Volcano, has been totally renovated. Contemporary rooms, in various shapes and sizes, are slightly minimalistic, with white and neutral hues; the best have water views or private balconies. The ocean-side lobby bar, with an exposed lava rock wall and comfy seating, is a great place to hang out.
- Williams, Sue (2019-11-15).
"Hilo, Hawaii: How the hula became a grass-skirted hip swaying dance". Traveller. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
Fittingly, the hotel on that exact site, the Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo has rebranded itself as the home of hula following a renovation in 2018. It's decorated throughout with beautiful monochrome photographs of hula dancers, has a huge mural in the restaurant – called Hula Hulas – and a life-size bronze statue of a hula dancer looking out over the bay from the lobby. And there are hula dancers performing every Monday evening and soon to be more days.
- Inefuku, Terri (2016-11-11).
"The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo completes $30 million renovation".
KHON-TV. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
After a $30 million renovation, The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo – a DoubleTree by Hilton officially made its debut Thursday.
...
Located along Hilo Bay, the historic 70-acre property features 320 refurbished guest rooms and suites, two restaurants, an entertainment venue, and curated, rotating exhibits that highlight aspects of the town’s history and Hawaiian culture.
In honor of Hilo’s famed Merrie Monarch Festival, hula photographer Kim Taylor Reece, the hotel’s artistic curator, provided $4 million worth of art for display in the guest rooms and common areas.
- Keep. Historic major hotel. Clearly notable. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 09:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- Question Which guideline applies here? Is it NCORP for corporations/organizations? If so, none of the references listed above (including those listed by Cunard) meet the criteria for establishing notability. The references are either tertiary sources (such as guidebooks or inclusion in hotel-listings) or sources based on various announcements such as refurbishment or takeover. Initiall I was rather surprised but digging a bit deeper it seems that this hotel was primarily used for business meetings or for tourists visiting the volcano and catered for these needs. I've tried to look at other hotel articles to understand what criteria might apply (e.g.
Hudson Hotel,
Hotel Edison,
Mayagüez Resort & Casino, etc) and the standard of referencing doesn't appear particularly high nor am I able to figure out which guidelines apply. If NCORP is the correct guideline, then a lot of hotel articles (including some/all of the ones I've linked) might struggle to survive an AfD.
HighKing
++ 10:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Given they're buildings, WP:GEOFEAT is also appropriate. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 12:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Based on WP:GEOFEAT and the inclusion of this hotel on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America which is also associated with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, it appears to meet the criteria for inclusion. HighKing ++ 19:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. WP:GEOFEAT and the inclusion of this hotel on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America. This exercise is a waste of valuable editor time. No compliance with WP:Before. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 14:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:GEOFEAT and WP:GNG. Edwardx ( talk) 10:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep – Per a source review, meets WP:GNG, and also meets WP:GEOFEAT per its historical significance. North America 1000 10:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. ♠ PMC♠ (talk) 03:50, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Grand Naniloa Hotel
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Grand Naniloa Hotel ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A hotel with no special claim to notability. Despite tagging for better references, none have been forthcoming with the SPA author persistently removing the maintenance templates without providing the requested sources. The two sources that do exist are highly promotional. Searches find all the usual advertisements and booking sites but nothing independent and reliable. Fails WP:GNG Velella Velella Talk 08:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- I am surprised, and a bit embarrassed, to have to spend time in Wikipedia to discuss one of the State of Hawaii's second largest city's premier sights/sites ( Banyan Drive, Grand Naniloa Hotel, Coconut Island (Hawaii Island) and Queen Liliuokalani Park and Gardens that are all close to each other). By Yoshi Canopus ( talk) 21:19, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hawaii-related deletion discussions. Velella Velella Talk 08:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Article is not promotional in tone; article asserts/establishes significance/importance. Maintenance tagging might be appropriate to retain; seems like there is possibly a behaviorial issue going on between deletion nominator and another editor who might better be coached rather than fought by edit war and opening AFD, which is by its nature a very negative arcane process seemingly designed to drive away relatively inexperienced editors from Wikipedia. I have not reviewed the editors' interactions at all though. Topic seems Wikipedia-notable. -- Doncram ( talk) 05:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 05:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, b uidh e 03:20, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: I added a bit, including another source, an infobox with coordinates and map (though for some reason the dot location doesn't show on the map, help?). Contrary to deletion nomination claim, there is plenty of "special claim of notability": "It is the largest hotel in this State of Hawaii's second largest city, and has the longest history as a hotel on Hawaii Island." Built at least in part by 1939, there will exist plenty about this in off-line and on-line sources such as travel and architectural magazines, island histories, and travel guidebooks (which can be very reliable, substantial sources, please spare us any complaint that Wikipedia is not a travel guidebook itself... yes of course the article should not be too promotional and it should not include directory-type info such as the hours of its notable native Hawaiian style restaurant, and the Crown Room nightclub, etc.). wp:ITSAPUBLICATTRACTION is an extremely excellent related essay. -- Doncram ( talk) 02:00, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Click on the Google books search link above to reach:
Fodor's Essential Hawaiibooks.google.com › books Fodor's Travel Guides - 2018 FOUND INSIDE Grand Naniloa Hotel–A Doubletree by Hilton. $ HOTEL FAMILY Hilo isn't known for its fancy resort hotels, but the recently renovated Grand Naniloa Hotel attempts to remedy that situation in grand fashion. Pros: within walking distance of ...
Lonely Planet Hawaii the Big Islandbooks.google.com › books Lonely Planet, Adam Karlin, Luci Yamamoto - 2017 FOUND INSIDE Willie K's Gig at the Crown Room LIVE MUSIC ( MAP GOOGLE MAP ; %808-969-3333; www.grandnaniloahilo.com/crownroom; 93 Banyan Dr, Grand Naniloa Hotel) A go-to music venue in the '80s, the Crown Room at the Grand Naniloa Hotel ...
Insight Guides Explore Hawaii (Travel Guide eBook)books.google.com › books Insight Guides - 2019 FOUND INSIDE ... Waikoloa; tel: 808-886 1234; www.hiltonwaikoloavillage.com; $$$ Yes, there actually are dolphins in the lagoon at this 62-acre (25-hectare) mega-resort, and you can pay to swim with them. Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo 93 Banyan Drive, Hilo; ...
- etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. -- Doncram ( talk) 02:04, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- Comment - Travel guides and similar publications such as those linked and mentioned above, are not reliable sources. They are often paid to publish content and even when they are not, their opinions are slanted to helping travellers find accommodation. Thus such reviews simply attest to the fact that the Hotel exists and is within a certain prive range but not that they are notable
Velella
Velella Talk 03:22, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
- I disagree, and so have numerous others who have commented about Fodors, Lonely Planet, other reliable travel guide sources, for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to travelers, why they should go see them, etc., and they tend to be very reliable because they are very well-scrutinized and checked and corrected, especially after the first edition...and these are in their 100th or so editions. I believe this will have been covered at wp:RSN many times, too. You apparently have a different view, which is okay, we can have different views, and I probably won't reply further about this point. -- Doncram ( talk) 04:11, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:39, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Travel guides are considered tertiary and therefore primary sources due to being original research. Per WP:TERTIARYUSE. -- Adamant1 (signature was omitted, was added by me. -- Doncram ( talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC))
- What a bizarre statement. "tertiary therefore primary"?!?! Offhand, I can see that travel guides can contain "original research" such as "on the day I visited, the cheesecake was excellent", but in general in their coverage of basic history and importance of places, it is the farthest from original research as can be. I see that
wp:TERTIARYUSE is an essay, and I tried to read it but it does not make any sense at all, IMHO. --
Doncram (
talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm just telling you what the essay said, I'm not really concerned with how bizarre it is or not, but it makes sense to me. If that's what you think though, maybe
Wikipedia:No original research which is a policy would be better. It says "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event." In other words, exactly the same thing. with travel guides, no where in that I saw in this AfD was anyone saying travel guides should be used only for just obtaining basic factual information. There's more reliable sources to get that information anyway, but looking at the discussion you said "for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to traveler." What is "important/substantial" about a location is relative to the travel guide. That's why they are called "guides." Travel writing is not a science, where each location is put through rigorous testing to make sure it meets some universal standard of what constitutes a substantial or important place. Even the best travel are just glorified opinion columnists and no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place. There's zero wrong with that, it just doesn't work here. Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place. Which destroys their neutrality. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 20:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- "no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place", or put another way "(often,) no two scientists/historians/journalists/writers etc have the exact same opinion of a ...", "Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place." or "Especially since they often (or always) receive perks (or salaries/payments/quedos) for writing about ...". Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:51, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- I'm just telling you what the essay said, I'm not really concerned with how bizarre it is or not, but it makes sense to me. If that's what you think though, maybe
Wikipedia:No original research which is a policy would be better. It says "Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event." In other words, exactly the same thing. with travel guides, no where in that I saw in this AfD was anyone saying travel guides should be used only for just obtaining basic factual information. There's more reliable sources to get that information anyway, but looking at the discussion you said "for reason that they tend to discuss what is important/substantial about sites of potential interest to traveler." What is "important/substantial" about a location is relative to the travel guide. That's why they are called "guides." Travel writing is not a science, where each location is put through rigorous testing to make sure it meets some universal standard of what constitutes a substantial or important place. Even the best travel are just glorified opinion columnists and no two travel guides have the exact same opinion of a place. There's zero wrong with that, it just doesn't work here. Especially since they often (or always) receive perks for writing about a place. Which destroys their neutrality. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 20:43, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- What a bizarre statement. "tertiary therefore primary"?!?! Offhand, I can see that travel guides can contain "original research" such as "on the day I visited, the cheesecake was excellent", but in general in their coverage of basic history and importance of places, it is the farthest from original research as can be. I see that
wp:TERTIARYUSE is an essay, and I tried to read it but it does not make any sense at all, IMHO. --
Doncram (
talk) 18:31, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 22:27, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment. Well, this is a major hotel which has been a fixture of the Hilo community since the 1940s, and has business history and events there. Due to its location on prime land on Hilo Bay, actually Hawaii-owned land, and near the airport, it has been tied in more than others i suppose. Much news coverage around its opening in 1940 and its major buildings in 1966 and major renovation in 2014 or so, much of this off-line I suppose. Searching for news coverage requires wading through lots and lots. But here are various bits:
- this Hawaii Magazine article.
- This Oyster.com article goes on in detail.
- U.S. News & World Reports ranks it #7 among Big Island hotels
- Hula Hulas restaurant is apparently the social hub of Hilo.
- K.T. Summer says it's great, and shows photo of Lyndon B. Johnson there, and news clippings from 1940 when it was built by the Island Hotels Company, when 2200 travel agencies were involved in a promotion. George Applegate, with the hotel since 1956 (before Hawaii became a U.S. state in 1959), speaks of lobbying to get the the Hilo airport built (I think he means its expansion from being a small World War II airfield), and Pan Am being the first commercial airline in, then 7 airlines, etc. At about 2:45 in 7 minute video is 8 page newspaper clipping about the Naniloa Hotel. Ed Bushor is the new owner, led renovation, gives detail which can be used in developing article. * Hawaii.Com is another that mentions the $4 million of Kim Taylor Reece art installed. About "the hotel’s exclusive concert hall – the historic Willie K’s Crown Room. Once revered as the premier music venue of the ’80s in Hilo, Willie K’s Crown Room has been restored and fully revamped" and seats 400. ( Willie K is great by the way.) The Hula Halau Ke ‘Olu Makani ‘O Mauna Loa dancers practice on the hotel grounds. It is listed on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America (i'm not sure what that is, but it's a good thing i think).
- Bushor goes on about the hula theme of the revamped hotel, and about the goal being to give the property back to the community, and for it does seem that hula is highly associated with Hilo, what with the Merrie Monarch Festival and more.
- This mentions the hula dancers regular practicing there, too, and calls it the "Grand Naniloa Resort, a Doubletree by Hilton", another term to search on.
- here is 2016 article at Pacific Business News covers a possible further expansion/purchase of adjacent hotel property. The land underneath both hotels is not owned by the hotels, but rather is leased by Hawai'i Department of Land and Natural Resources. The Naniloa hotel is owned by "WHR, the holding group formed by the Edmund C. Olson Trust and Hawaii developer Ed Bushor’s Tower Development, own the former Hilo Naniloa Hotel, recently re-opened the hotel as a DoubleTree by Hilton after a $30 million renovation. Aqua-Aston Hospitality is managing the hotel, whose land under it is owned by DLNR."
- Oh, it was the Hilo Naniloa until recently, need to search on that.
- Historic postcards of it from the 1960s refer to it as Naniloa Hotel Hilo Bay, or just as Naniloa Hotel
- In 2018, it seems like that other hotel is to be demolished, per this very long DNLR report, which documents the buildings in the area (obviously especially the ones to be demolished), but also the history of Banyan Drive built in the 1930s, the flora and fauna, local archeology of heiaus, etc. It notes the Naniloa Hotel is on two parcels, and that its 9-hole golf course is on 3 or 4 or 5 more parcels.
- There was a $21,000 theft by employee(s), and a related manager lawsuit, reported in 2018 by the Hawaii Tribune Herald.
- Check out the streaming webcam view of the hotel's waterfront, from the top of one of the buildings.
- It is one of only 5 hotels remaining open in face of virus, March 28, 2020, per Hawaii Tribune Herald.
- Koi Nobori were to fly at the hotel and other Banyan Drive locations in a huge festival of Koi Nobori in 2019.
- There was news coverage of the 1940 opening of course, including Opening of Naniloa Hotel in Honolulu Star-Bulletin, Honolulu, Hawaii, 06 Feb 1940.
- There were numerous congratulatory ads, upon 1940 opening of the hotel. And this blog reproduces opening day announcement, too.
- The original 1940s hotel was replaced by modern structures in 1966.
- Camp Tarawa Then and Now – Historic Hawaii Foundation reports that, during World War II, "The old Naniloa Hotel along Banyan Drive was where USO entertainers stayed when they came to entertain the Marines on the island."
- December 1944 edition of Paradise of the Pacific (oldest magazine in Hawaii), shows hotel, describes it as a jewel, and gives full text of "Naniloa Hotel Lanai", a 1944 poem, as accompaniment to "A Pretty Girl is Like a Melody" about USO girls.
- The property was hit by the 1946 tsunami (which killed 173 in Hilo) and the 1964 tsunami and was water-damaged, but was not hit severely as other places in Hilo.
I'll stop with those. There exists plenty of news coverage over the years, this is not a minor family small hotel, it is important in business/social history. -- Doncram ( talk) 23:52, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- listings of post cards on Ebay that feature it and the hotels website aren't news sources. At this point your just ref bombing and campaigning. Both of which you shouldn't be doing and won't lead to you getting your way either. So, hopefully you do actually stop with it. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 00:12, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Delete, I original had an opened mind and wanted to give this a chance, but all the subsequent barnstorming and ref bomb of things like Ebay listings of postcards to try to prove notability makes me less inclined to think this notable. If no reliable in-depth coverage has materialized in the month since this AfD was created and postcards on Ebay is mostly what we have instead, I strongly believe this isn't a notable subject and the article for it should be deleted. The lack of notability isn't surprising. As most hotels aren't notable. If this one was it would probably be on the national register of historic places or something, but it isn't. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 00:20, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: Well that seems peevish, to vote delete because there exist historic postcards about it. Right, you are closed in your mind to actually reading in the sources. I mention them in a kind of flip way above, but those are in fact distilled from hundreds of google hits, and do include some legit sources.
- And actually, it is indeed "on the national register of historic places or something"!!!! The
National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America is a legitimate thing, which i didn't know much about, but am now developing a list-article about it. It is an official program of the
National Trust for Historic Preservation, and members must be listed or eligible for the
National Register of Historic Places. And this Naniloa Hotel is one of those 266, listed on it in 2016. I don't know how/why it was deemed eligible for listing on the NRHP but was not in fact listed on the NRHP, but that does happen frequently for churches and hotels and other places which just choose not to be listed, perhaps to avoid scrutiny/review upon future renovations. And about hula, not only is the hotel involved in the
Merrie Monarch Festival which began in 1963, it actually "hosts this remarkable festival each year earning its nickname as the Home of Hula."(per
history of the hotel at HistoricHotels.org). --
Doncram (
talk) 01:02, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- That and the sources being trivial/unreliable, but mostly the trivial/unreliable thing. There is a proper way to go about this though, without the barnstorming/ref bombing, that usually leads to a better outcome. It's just the nature of the thing. At least that's what I've seen. Is it on the NRHP? It's not listed in
National Register of Historic Places listings on the island of Hawaii. Nor the actual NRHP site, or any other site that I can find. So, I'm pretty sure your wrong about that. Otherwise, I'd like to see a citation for it (the historichotels.org site has zero connection to the NRHP). --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- I think you need to take a deep breath and actually spend some time reviewing and researching what your looking through, and compare it to the guidelines in
WP:N to be it fits before you post it here. Otherwise, it's just throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and none of it will because your actually throwing sand, dry sand. Lots and lots of dry sand. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Not wrong. Um, I said it is eligible for, but not listed on the NRHP, while it was listed in 2016 on something like it, the NRHHA, which I said is a program of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Every listing of which I am pretty sure is going to be Wikipedia-notable, as they are all historic and recognized for being historically authentic. As I develop about the NRHHA i think i am going to find an existing article for most, but in some cases I have to start one, such as for
Strater Hotel in Durango, Colorado where I divided it out of a historic district article just now. The Naniloa is in pretty awesome company:
The Broadmoor,
Moana Hotel,
The Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel, etc. --
Doncram (
talk) 02:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Automatic Wikipedia notability based on the National Trust for Historic Preservation's opinion of what is historically significant is a hard nope. Their a private organization and them recognizing something as "historic" would be on the same level as a mid/lower tier, hardly deserving of notability, award. Which by no means do those guarantee anything notability wise. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 02:21, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Not wrong. Um, I said it is eligible for, but not listed on the NRHP, while it was listed in 2016 on something like it, the NRHHA, which I said is a program of the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Every listing of which I am pretty sure is going to be Wikipedia-notable, as they are all historic and recognized for being historically authentic. As I develop about the NRHHA i think i am going to find an existing article for most, but in some cases I have to start one, such as for
Strater Hotel in Durango, Colorado where I divided it out of a historic district article just now. The Naniloa is in pretty awesome company:
The Broadmoor,
Moana Hotel,
The Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel, etc. --
Doncram (
talk) 02:14, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- I think you need to take a deep breath and actually spend some time reviewing and researching what your looking through, and compare it to the guidelines in
WP:N to be it fits before you post it here. Otherwise, it's just throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks, and none of it will because your actually throwing sand, dry sand. Lots and lots of dry sand. --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:03, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- That and the sources being trivial/unreliable, but mostly the trivial/unreliable thing. There is a proper way to go about this though, without the barnstorming/ref bombing, that usually leads to a better outcome. It's just the nature of the thing. At least that's what I've seen. Is it on the NRHP? It's not listed in
National Register of Historic Places listings on the island of Hawaii. Nor the actual NRHP site, or any other site that I can find. So, I'm pretty sure your wrong about that. Otherwise, I'd like to see a citation for it (the historichotels.org site has zero connection to the NRHP). --
Adamant1 (
talk) 02:00, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
- Cooper, Jeanne (2017-02-09). "Suite Spot: Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo". San Francisco Chronicle. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- "Editorial: Hotel sale holds promise for Hilo". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Cooper, Jeanne. "Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo—A DoubleTree by Hilton". Frommer's. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Gomes, Andrew (2015-08-18). "Brand-new start for an iconic inn". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Wenzel, Marty (2017-06-19). "Back in the spotlight: the renovated, rebranded Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo keeps culture alive on Hawaii Island's east side". TravelAge West. 52 (13). Northstar Travel Group. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- "Hawai'i: Hawai'i Island: beyond coffee, black sand and orchids". Travel Weekly. Northstar Travel Group. 2014-12-08. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Gomes, Andrew (2013-12-19). "Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel purchased for $7 million". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Schaefers, Allison (2013-11-13). "Bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel being sold to developer-artist duo". Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via Gale.
- Bair, Diane; Wright, Pamela (2017-03-09). "Turning up the heat in Hawaii". The Boston Globe. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Williams, Sue (2019-11-15). "Hilo, Hawaii: How the hula became a grass-skirted hip swaying dance". Traveller. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
- Inefuku, Terri (2016-11-11). "The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo completes $30 million renovation". KHON-TV. Archived from the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Grand Naniloa Hotel to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".Sources with quotes- Cooper, Jeanne (2017-02-09).
"Suite Spot: Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo".
San Francisco Chronicle. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
Anywhere else, the rebranding of an iconic hotel might elicit yawns. But in Hawaii’s second-largest city, the addition of “A DoubleTree by Hilton” to the official name of the Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo has sparked excitement. Finally, the heart of East Hawaii has contemporary, clean lodgings that meet national standards, yet with a style that celebrates Hawaiian culture, thanks to $20 million in renovations to the 388 rooms and public areas, including two restaurants, a lobby bar and nightclub.
Lead investor Ed Bushor is equally proud of the hotel’s other new moniker, “The Home of Hula,” reflected in the hotel’s weekly free hula shows and classes, videos of Hilo’s renowned Merrie Monarch hula competition playing in the lobby, and Kim Taylor Reece’s black-and-white images of hula dancers nearly everywhere you huli (turn).
The setting: At the northern apex of wooded, hotel-lined Banyan Drive, overlooking Hilo Bay, the ocean and Reeds Bay, where cruise and cargo ships dock at one end and locals paddleboard at the other.
-
"Editorial: Hotel sale holds promise for Hilo".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The editorial notes:
A jewel that's been diminished in recent years, the troubled Hilo Naniloa Hotel now has a new lease on life, quite literally, with much potential for the property and for the economic vitality of nearby communities in East Hawaii. After years of decline, the bayfront hotel was bought this month in bankruptcy auction for $7 million by real estate developer Ed Bushor and partners, including marine artist Wyland and major Hawaii island landowner Ed Olson. To be rebranded the Naniloa Volcanoes Resort, its new owners have the deep pockets to spend $20 million on renovations and transform the property into a museum-like visitor attraction by New Year's 2015. What's good for the Naniloa, and the other hospitality purveyors along Hilo's scenic Banyan and Bayfront drives, is good for the economic well-being of East Hawaii. The 383-room hotel had been in Chapter 11 bankruptcy since November 2012, operating just 180 rooms in one tower after previous owner, Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc., ran into money trouble after renovations during the economic downturn several years ago. That company, led by Ken Fujiyama, had bought the Naniloa and its golf course on state land in a land-lease auction in 2006. Where the current hotel has hobbled along with a mere 20-30 percent occupancy rate employing just 35 workers, the revitalized property envisions employing 115 to 200 people. Having the Naniloa sale resolved -- especially involving such prominent names -- gives much-needed stability heading into mixed times for Hawaii's tourism industry.
- Cooper, Jeanne.
"Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo—A DoubleTree by Hilton".
Frommer's. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
This 12-story, thoroughly renovated oceanfront hotel with wonderful views of Hilo Bay has declared itself “the home of hula.” Renowned photographer Kim Taylor Reese’s images of hula dancers hang on virtually every wall, high-definition video of the “Merrie Monarch” hula competition plays in the new, open-air lobby, with a central bar.
- Gomes, Andrew (2015-08-18).
"Brand-new start for an iconic inn".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
A $20 million renovation and re-branding is set to begin for the Hilo Naniloa Hotel and Golf Club more than a year after a group of investors bought the struggling property on state land.
...
The Naniloa, which was built in 1966 on land leased from the state along Banyan Drive and includes a nine-hole golf course, fell on hard times after the Great Recession as former owner Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc. filed bankruptcy. It had acquired the property in 2006 and got caught in the economic downturn partway through a renovation plan.
Hotel operations at one point under Hawaii Outdoor lacked a functioning restaurant, had one of two pools closed and only 179 rooms in use. Occupancy fell to as low as 20 percent to 30 percent.
Hawaii Outdoor, led by Hilo businessman Ken Fujiyama, lost the property in a bankruptcy auction to a company led by real estate developer Ed Bushor that paid $7 million in December 2013.
- Wenzel, Marty (2017-06-19).
"Back in the spotlight: the renovated, rebranded Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo keeps culture alive on Hawaii Island's east side". TravelAge West. 52 (13).
Northstar Travel Group. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
Like the company's DoubleTree properties around the world, Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo--a DoubleTree by Hilton welcomes guests with warm chocolate chip cookies. But as soon as clients enter the new, open-air lobby with its views straight out to Hilo Bay, they know exactly where they stand. Fresh from a $30 million renovation, the 320-room Grand Naniloa makes a strong statement about its singularity and its setting on the east coast of Hawaii Island.
Formerly known as Hilo Naniloa Hotel, the 70-acre seaside landmark first opened in 1939, and by the 1950s and '60s, it had evolved into Hilo's most popular accommodation. Seasoned travelers were smitten with its location on Banyan Drive, a boulevard lined by banyan trees planted by baseball star Babe Ruth, former President Franklin D. Roosevelt and other celebrities. In subsequent decades, the hotel fell into disrepair and financial hardship until its purchase by Tower Development, which launched a three-year-long renovation. The restored property, managed by Aqua-Aston Hospitality, debuted in November 2016 as Hawaii Island's first DoubleTree by Hilton.
...
Since Grand Naniloa's accommodations were gutted and rebuilt, rooms now feature either floor-to-ceiling windows or lanais, and 90 percent boast ocean views. Guests enjoy complimentary Wi-Fi access, in-room microwaves and refrigerators, a 24-hour fitness center, free self-parking and free daily rounds on Hilo's nine-hole golf course. Soon, clients will be able to sip and sup at Grand Naniloa's bay-view bar and poolside restaurant, opening in August.
-
"Hawai'i: Hawai'i Island: beyond coffee, black sand and orchids".
Travel Weekly.
Northstar Travel Group. 2014-12-08. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
The Hilo Naniloa Hotel is the new name for Naniloa Volcanoes Resort, which was sold in a bankruptcy. Aqua Hospitality, based in Honolulu, will manage the 383-room resort and oversee its complete renovation, estimated to wrap by summer 2015. In the interim, 140 rooms will be available and services limited, but prices have been adjusted.
- Gomes, Andrew (2013-12-19).
"Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel purchased for $7 million".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
The Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel has a new owner and a new future as a marine art-themed vacation resort in Hilo. A company led by real estate developer Ed Bushor completed the purchase of the oceanfront hotel Tuesday. Work to revitalize the struggling property began quickly, with new landscaping planted in front of the hotel Tuesday and a 20-foot Christmas tree set up Wednesday. "It's looking like an operating hotel actually, instead of a desert like it used to be," Bushor said. Bushor, who bought the hotel for $7 million through a bankruptcy auction with partners, including marine artist Wyland and major Hawaii island landowner Ed Olson, plans to spend $20 million on renovations and make the property a museumlike visitor attraction.
- Schaefers, Allison (2013-11-13).
"Bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel being sold to developer-artist duo".
Honolulu Star-Advertiser. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06 – via
Gale.
The article notes:
Developer Ed Bushor and his longtime friend, marine artist Wyland, are buying the bankrupt Naniloa Volcanoes Hotel for $5.2 million, a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge confirmed Tuesday.
The $5.2 million offer beat out an earlier unconfirmed bid for $3.7 million by Ramco Properties, owner of the Hilo Hawaiian, which is next door to the Naniloa. It also shut out other last-minute offers from two other developers, including Peter Savio, who owns Pagoda Hotels.
...
The Naniloa went into foreclosure last year after Hawaii Outdoor Tours Inc. defaulted on a $10 million loan it used to buy the hotel, which sits on 71 acres of state leasehold land. Only 269 of the hotel's 333 rooms are in active service.
- Bair, Diane; Wright, Pamela (2017-03-09).
"Turning up the heat in Hawaii".
The Boston Globe. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
The Grand Naniloa Hotel — A Doubletree by Hilton is the place to stay in Hilo (855-610-8733, www.grandnaniloahilo.com; rooms starting at $149). The historic, 388-room property, with in-your-face views of Hilo Bay and the Mauna Kea Volcano, has been totally renovated. Contemporary rooms, in various shapes and sizes, are slightly minimalistic, with white and neutral hues; the best have water views or private balconies. The ocean-side lobby bar, with an exposed lava rock wall and comfy seating, is a great place to hang out.
- Williams, Sue (2019-11-15).
"Hilo, Hawaii: How the hula became a grass-skirted hip swaying dance". Traveller. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
Fittingly, the hotel on that exact site, the Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo has rebranded itself as the home of hula following a renovation in 2018. It's decorated throughout with beautiful monochrome photographs of hula dancers, has a huge mural in the restaurant – called Hula Hulas – and a life-size bronze statue of a hula dancer looking out over the bay from the lobby. And there are hula dancers performing every Monday evening and soon to be more days.
- Inefuku, Terri (2016-11-11).
"The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo completes $30 million renovation".
KHON-TV. Archived from
the original on 2020-04-06. Retrieved 2020-04-06.
The article notes:
After a $30 million renovation, The Grand Naniloa Hotel Hilo – a DoubleTree by Hilton officially made its debut Thursday.
...
Located along Hilo Bay, the historic 70-acre property features 320 refurbished guest rooms and suites, two restaurants, an entertainment venue, and curated, rotating exhibits that highlight aspects of the town’s history and Hawaiian culture.
In honor of Hilo’s famed Merrie Monarch Festival, hula photographer Kim Taylor Reece, the hotel’s artistic curator, provided $4 million worth of art for display in the guest rooms and common areas.
- Keep. Historic major hotel. Clearly notable. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 09:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- Question Which guideline applies here? Is it NCORP for corporations/organizations? If so, none of the references listed above (including those listed by Cunard) meet the criteria for establishing notability. The references are either tertiary sources (such as guidebooks or inclusion in hotel-listings) or sources based on various announcements such as refurbishment or takeover. Initiall I was rather surprised but digging a bit deeper it seems that this hotel was primarily used for business meetings or for tourists visiting the volcano and catered for these needs. I've tried to look at other hotel articles to understand what criteria might apply (e.g.
Hudson Hotel,
Hotel Edison,
Mayagüez Resort & Casino, etc) and the standard of referencing doesn't appear particularly high nor am I able to figure out which guidelines apply. If NCORP is the correct guideline, then a lot of hotel articles (including some/all of the ones I've linked) might struggle to survive an AfD.
HighKing
++ 10:59, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Given they're buildings, WP:GEOFEAT is also appropriate. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 12:37, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Based on WP:GEOFEAT and the inclusion of this hotel on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America which is also associated with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, it appears to meet the criteria for inclusion. HighKing ++ 19:57, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. WP:GEOFEAT and the inclusion of this hotel on the National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America. This exercise is a waste of valuable editor time. No compliance with WP:Before. 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 14:45, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Passes WP:GEOFEAT and WP:GNG. Edwardx ( talk) 10:07, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
- Keep – Per a source review, meets WP:GNG, and also meets WP:GEOFEAT per its historical significance. North America 1000 10:38, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.