- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Black Kite (talk) 22:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
France at the 2014 European Athletics Championships
- France at the 2014 European Athletics Championships ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced article consisting of mostly empty tables which presumably will be filled with detailed sports stats in violation of WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. - Mr X 12:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as being part of
a series of articles on nations at the 2014 EAC. Being unsourced is not a reason for deletion.
Lugnuts
Dick Laurent is dead
18:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Notability is not inherited, and the
OTHERSTUFF still doesn't demonstrate that this list of stats has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple sources. There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's
NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.-
Mr
X
11:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
- But it is consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia. These are no-less notable than the by country articles for the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, etc. These are the top level athletes representing their nations, with each country level article being a summary of what happened in each event. Each one can be easily expanded with the results, with references and prose. How is the French article any different to the women's 100m article from the same event? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 10:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
- Notability is not inherited, and the
OTHERSTUFF still doesn't demonstrate that this list of stats has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple sources. There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's
NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.-
Mr
X
11:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as Lugnuts says being part of a series of articles on nations at the 2014 EAC. With many Championships and Games country pages are created and most of them are stubs/lists. If you want to get this stuff deleted, put all the coutry pages up for deleting, including all the country pages from previous years. Besides of that I don't really see the difference between this page and for instance France at the 2014 Winter Olympics. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 11:42, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Addition See the country pages of the recent EACs below. In my opinion it would be a shame to delete all these pages. I don't agree with Mr, I think these pages are informative. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 12:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Addition 2
Mr wrote:
There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.
however on mentioned page is stated (see: here):
Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles. In addition, articles should contain sufficient explanatory text to put statistics within the article in their proper context for a general reader. In cases where this may be necessary consider using tables to enhance the readability of lengthy data lists.
Meaning that pages about statistics are allowed on WP, and in this article are tables used to enhance the readability of the lengthy data lists. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 12:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC) - Comment Could the nominator also explain how this differs from this article, for example? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 08:06, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Nomination, I submit, completely misunderstands nature of WP:NOTSTATSBOOK : the rules set out that Wikipedia is not the place for bare stats that are not informative, or an indiscriminate collection of information.
Well, such a list as this could not be MORE discriminate. It sets out clearly, and uniquely, a collection of results - ALL of which on their own will have been notable and made note upon in various media sources - but in a way that briefly provides the reader a simple, clear way of finding significant and clearly defined information on a subject of interest - the full yet succinct summary of the performance of a national team at a significant international competition run on a national team basis.
And it is also the very opposite of bare stats; in fact it's the very nature of such lists to provide depth and context to bare 'medal tally' stats that are a fundamental building block of media reporting and public interest in sports. Finally, the fact that the list in total is not the subject of significant coverage is irrelevant if the content itself has been, which is clearly the case.
OP appears to have a personal issue with the very idea of such stats pages; I respect the view, but, in my view this issue is entirely wrong-headed. Mpjmcevoybeta ( talk) 18:03, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Black Kite (talk) 22:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
France at the 2014 European Athletics Championships
- France at the 2014 European Athletics Championships ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unsourced article consisting of mostly empty tables which presumably will be filled with detailed sports stats in violation of WP:NOTSTATSBOOK. - Mr X 12:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 14:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as being part of
a series of articles on nations at the 2014 EAC. Being unsourced is not a reason for deletion.
Lugnuts
Dick Laurent is dead
18:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
- Notability is not inherited, and the
OTHERSTUFF still doesn't demonstrate that this list of stats has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple sources. There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's
NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.-
Mr
X
11:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
- But it is consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia. These are no-less notable than the by country articles for the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, etc. These are the top level athletes representing their nations, with each country level article being a summary of what happened in each event. Each one can be easily expanded with the results, with references and prose. How is the French article any different to the women's 100m article from the same event? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 10:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
- Notability is not inherited, and the
OTHERSTUFF still doesn't demonstrate that this list of stats has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple sources. There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's
NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.-
Mr
X
11:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep as Lugnuts says being part of a series of articles on nations at the 2014 EAC. With many Championships and Games country pages are created and most of them are stubs/lists. If you want to get this stuff deleted, put all the coutry pages up for deleting, including all the country pages from previous years. Besides of that I don't really see the difference between this page and for instance France at the 2014 Winter Olympics. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 11:42, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Addition See the country pages of the recent EACs below. In my opinion it would be a shame to delete all these pages. I don't agree with Mr, I think these pages are informative. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 12:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
- Addition 2
Mr wrote:
There is nothing encyclopedic or informative about listing bare stats. It's NOT consistent with the purpose of Wikipedia.
however on mentioned page is stated (see: here):
Long and sprawling lists of statistics may be confusing to readers and reduce the readability and neatness of our articles. In addition, articles should contain sufficient explanatory text to put statistics within the article in their proper context for a general reader. In cases where this may be necessary consider using tables to enhance the readability of lengthy data lists.
Meaning that pages about statistics are allowed on WP, and in this article are tables used to enhance the readability of the lengthy data lists. Sander.v.Ginkel ( talk) 12:15, 14 August 2014 (UTC) - Comment Could the nominator also explain how this differs from this article, for example? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 08:06, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Nomination, I submit, completely misunderstands nature of WP:NOTSTATSBOOK : the rules set out that Wikipedia is not the place for bare stats that are not informative, or an indiscriminate collection of information.
Well, such a list as this could not be MORE discriminate. It sets out clearly, and uniquely, a collection of results - ALL of which on their own will have been notable and made note upon in various media sources - but in a way that briefly provides the reader a simple, clear way of finding significant and clearly defined information on a subject of interest - the full yet succinct summary of the performance of a national team at a significant international competition run on a national team basis.
And it is also the very opposite of bare stats; in fact it's the very nature of such lists to provide depth and context to bare 'medal tally' stats that are a fundamental building block of media reporting and public interest in sports. Finally, the fact that the list in total is not the subject of significant coverage is irrelevant if the content itself has been, which is clearly the case.
OP appears to have a personal issue with the very idea of such stats pages; I respect the view, but, in my view this issue is entirely wrong-headed. Mpjmcevoybeta ( talk) 18:03, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.