- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. In light of sources added and brought up here. Liz Read! Talk! 03:00, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Faruk Kaymakcı
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- Faruk Kaymakcı ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
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WP:BLP of a diplomat and civil servant, not properly referenced as passing notability criteria. As always, neither diplomats nor civil servants are "inherently" notable just because they exist -- for both roles, notability hinges on showing a WP:GNG-worthy volume of reliable source coverage about their work in media and/or books, to demonstrate that their work has made them the subject of significant third-party attention to establish its significance. But the referencing here is entirely to content self-published by his own employers and other directly affiliated organizations, with not a shred of GNG-worthy media coverage shown at all. Bearcat ( talk) 14:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Turkey. Bearcat ( talk) 14:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Appears to be a non-notable diplomat who fails to meet WP:BIO or WP:NPOL. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:46, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - the subject was until recently Turkey's Deputy Foreign Minister and EU ambassador. There are hundreds of news articles referencing him to represent Turkey's official view on various geopolitical issues. Here is a biographical overview from the College of Europe. Should easily meet WP:NPOL in my opinion. - Indefensible ( talk) 17:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep For example https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/no-european-security-without-turkiye-deputy-eu-minister-179536 - as far as I know Hürriyet Daily News has not (yet?) been added to the list of unreliable sources. Chidgk1 ( talk) 13:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I have cited more sources to the subject albeit some are written in Turkish. And would as well ask admins to consider which diplomatic portfolios should be considered on the
WP:NPOL. A deputy foreign minister should easily pass. My 2cents and kind regards.
Wikipractitioner (
talk)
15:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's a complexity here because "foreign minister" is used differently across different countries. In parliamentary systems a "Minister" or "Deputy Minister" is a member of a national/state parliament (so automatically satisfying NPOL); in presidential systems the equivalent is an appointed position. In both cases, Ministers would normally be members of cabinet, membership of which would satisfy NPOL. However, there are some countries where not all ministries are cabinet level and certainly deputy ministers do not automatically hold cabinet-level positions. In the case of Turkey, the Foreign Minister is a Presidential appointment and there are at present four deputy foreign ministers. Three of the deputy foreign ministers are career foreign service professionals (ie civil servants) and one appears to be an AKP apparatchik. Given this, I would not consider a Turkish deputy foreign minister presumptively notable under NPOL. Regards, Goldsztajn ( talk) 01:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - He is notable enough due to his role as ambassador of Turkey. Egeymi ( talk) 18:32, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Other than the scores of Turkish sources available, here's some European pieces: The Brussels Times, Balkan Insight, "Significantly, the new Turkish ambassador to Brussels is Faruk Kaymakci, probably the ablest EU specialist in the foreign ministry" Oxford Analytica Expert Briefings. Sources available that show a passing of the GNG/BASIC. Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 23:59, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. In light of sources added and brought up here. Liz Read! Talk! 03:00, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Faruk Kaymakcı
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Faruk Kaymakcı ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP of a diplomat and civil servant, not properly referenced as passing notability criteria. As always, neither diplomats nor civil servants are "inherently" notable just because they exist -- for both roles, notability hinges on showing a WP:GNG-worthy volume of reliable source coverage about their work in media and/or books, to demonstrate that their work has made them the subject of significant third-party attention to establish its significance. But the referencing here is entirely to content self-published by his own employers and other directly affiliated organizations, with not a shred of GNG-worthy media coverage shown at all. Bearcat ( talk) 14:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Turkey. Bearcat ( talk) 14:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: Appears to be a non-notable diplomat who fails to meet WP:BIO or WP:NPOL. Hey man im josh ( talk) 16:46, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - the subject was until recently Turkey's Deputy Foreign Minister and EU ambassador. There are hundreds of news articles referencing him to represent Turkey's official view on various geopolitical issues. Here is a biographical overview from the College of Europe. Should easily meet WP:NPOL in my opinion. - Indefensible ( talk) 17:02, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:38, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep For example https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/no-european-security-without-turkiye-deputy-eu-minister-179536 - as far as I know Hürriyet Daily News has not (yet?) been added to the list of unreliable sources. Chidgk1 ( talk) 13:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I have cited more sources to the subject albeit some are written in Turkish. And would as well ask admins to consider which diplomatic portfolios should be considered on the
WP:NPOL. A deputy foreign minister should easily pass. My 2cents and kind regards.
Wikipractitioner (
talk)
15:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- There's a complexity here because "foreign minister" is used differently across different countries. In parliamentary systems a "Minister" or "Deputy Minister" is a member of a national/state parliament (so automatically satisfying NPOL); in presidential systems the equivalent is an appointed position. In both cases, Ministers would normally be members of cabinet, membership of which would satisfy NPOL. However, there are some countries where not all ministries are cabinet level and certainly deputy ministers do not automatically hold cabinet-level positions. In the case of Turkey, the Foreign Minister is a Presidential appointment and there are at present four deputy foreign ministers. Three of the deputy foreign ministers are career foreign service professionals (ie civil servants) and one appears to be an AKP apparatchik. Given this, I would not consider a Turkish deputy foreign minister presumptively notable under NPOL. Regards, Goldsztajn ( talk) 01:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - He is notable enough due to his role as ambassador of Turkey. Egeymi ( talk) 18:32, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Other than the scores of Turkish sources available, here's some European pieces: The Brussels Times, Balkan Insight, "Significantly, the new Turkish ambassador to Brussels is Faruk Kaymakci, probably the ablest EU specialist in the foreign ministry" Oxford Analytica Expert Briefings. Sources available that show a passing of the GNG/BASIC. Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 23:59, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.