- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:32, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Ernie Tate
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Biography (unconfirmable whether it's a BLP or not) of a political activist, not properly referenced to any reliable source coverage for the purposes of establishing his notability. The references here are the self-published websites of organizations he was directly affiliated with, the primary source text of a manifesto he was signatory to, and a YouTube video clip of him speaking -- not even one of them represents real reliable source coverage in real media that is genuinely independent of him, and nothing stated in the article is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be much better referenced than this. Bearcat ( talk) 16:35, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - Notable far-left figure. Several citations in Google Scholar including a lengthy journal article. CosmosCagoul ( talk) 18:49, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - None of the references are from organisations is affiliated with. Maybe the article needs to be stronger, but he played important roles in the Bertrand Russell peace Foundation, the Vietnam Solidarity Campaign, was a touch-stone in the struggle between the WRP and the rest of the left, and his books of memoir have been wodely cited. He recenty spoke at one of the first academic conferences on Trotsky in Cuba. -- Duncan ( talk) 22:08, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Aside from the one new reference that got added after this discussion was already initiated, every other reference present here is to the self-published newsletters of chapters of the Fourth International — so they are all directly affiliated sources. The one new source is worth something, but it isn't a magic free pass over GNG all by itself as the only independent reliable source in play — and playing important roles in organizations and being a touch-stone in the struggle between organizations and writing a book and speaking at a conference only count as notability claims to the extent that they can be referenced to reliable source coverage about those accomplishments in real notability-supporting media. None of them constitute instant inclusion freebies for otherwise poorly sourced articles just because they've been asserted — they have to be well-referenced as the subject of media coverage, not just technically verified as true by primary sources, before they translate into grounds for a Wikipedia article.
Bearcat (
talk)
17:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
- No they aren't. Spartacist is affiliated with the International Communist League and Worker's Liberty is affiliated with the AWL. Neither of those groups is in the Fourth International. They are actually rivals to it both of whom split away from it. They are no more affiliated to the Fourth International or chapters of it than the Lutheran Church is a chapter of the Roman Catholic Church. Just because both claim to be the true church doesn't mean they are affiliated to one another. 45.72.136.239 ( talk) 20:07, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
- Aside from the one new reference that got added after this discussion was already initiated, every other reference present here is to the self-published newsletters of chapters of the Fourth International — so they are all directly affiliated sources. The one new source is worth something, but it isn't a magic free pass over GNG all by itself as the only independent reliable source in play — and playing important roles in organizations and being a touch-stone in the struggle between organizations and writing a book and speaking at a conference only count as notability claims to the extent that they can be referenced to reliable source coverage about those accomplishments in real notability-supporting media. None of them constitute instant inclusion freebies for otherwise poorly sourced articles just because they've been asserted — they have to be well-referenced as the subject of media coverage, not just technically verified as true by primary sources, before they translate into grounds for a Wikipedia article.
Bearcat (
talk)
17:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - have turned up quite a few more independent references, several of which are substantial, and there are more still out there. Warofdreams talk 08:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Vanamonde ( Talk) 16:32, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Ernie Tate
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Ernie Tate ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Biography (unconfirmable whether it's a BLP or not) of a political activist, not properly referenced to any reliable source coverage for the purposes of establishing his notability. The references here are the self-published websites of organizations he was directly affiliated with, the primary source text of a manifesto he was signatory to, and a YouTube video clip of him speaking -- not even one of them represents real reliable source coverage in real media that is genuinely independent of him, and nothing stated in the article is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be much better referenced than this. Bearcat ( talk) 16:35, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - Notable far-left figure. Several citations in Google Scholar including a lengthy journal article. CosmosCagoul ( talk) 18:49, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - None of the references are from organisations is affiliated with. Maybe the article needs to be stronger, but he played important roles in the Bertrand Russell peace Foundation, the Vietnam Solidarity Campaign, was a touch-stone in the struggle between the WRP and the rest of the left, and his books of memoir have been wodely cited. He recenty spoke at one of the first academic conferences on Trotsky in Cuba. -- Duncan ( talk) 22:08, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Aside from the one new reference that got added after this discussion was already initiated, every other reference present here is to the self-published newsletters of chapters of the Fourth International — so they are all directly affiliated sources. The one new source is worth something, but it isn't a magic free pass over GNG all by itself as the only independent reliable source in play — and playing important roles in organizations and being a touch-stone in the struggle between organizations and writing a book and speaking at a conference only count as notability claims to the extent that they can be referenced to reliable source coverage about those accomplishments in real notability-supporting media. None of them constitute instant inclusion freebies for otherwise poorly sourced articles just because they've been asserted — they have to be well-referenced as the subject of media coverage, not just technically verified as true by primary sources, before they translate into grounds for a Wikipedia article.
Bearcat (
talk)
17:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
- No they aren't. Spartacist is affiliated with the International Communist League and Worker's Liberty is affiliated with the AWL. Neither of those groups is in the Fourth International. They are actually rivals to it both of whom split away from it. They are no more affiliated to the Fourth International or chapters of it than the Lutheran Church is a chapter of the Roman Catholic Church. Just because both claim to be the true church doesn't mean they are affiliated to one another. 45.72.136.239 ( talk) 20:07, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
- Aside from the one new reference that got added after this discussion was already initiated, every other reference present here is to the self-published newsletters of chapters of the Fourth International — so they are all directly affiliated sources. The one new source is worth something, but it isn't a magic free pass over GNG all by itself as the only independent reliable source in play — and playing important roles in organizations and being a touch-stone in the struggle between organizations and writing a book and speaking at a conference only count as notability claims to the extent that they can be referenced to reliable source coverage about those accomplishments in real notability-supporting media. None of them constitute instant inclusion freebies for otherwise poorly sourced articles just because they've been asserted — they have to be well-referenced as the subject of media coverage, not just technically verified as true by primary sources, before they translate into grounds for a Wikipedia article.
Bearcat (
talk)
17:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:26, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
- Keep - have turned up quite a few more independent references, several of which are substantial, and there are more still out there. Warofdreams talk 08:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.