The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep It meets notability criteria for a notable person and is founder of a notable grassroots animal rights organization, with worldwide activists. Also, large amount of YouTube followers: 127,500.
User:Steven02511Signed —Preceding
undated comment added 03:49, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
Steven02511 (
talk)
04:45, 20 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete. Fails
WP:GNG and
WP:PROMO. The sources listed above merely mention him or briefly interview him. They do not cover him significantly. The sources on the page don't either, they're links to help him make money as the nominator pointed out - one is to his freaking Patreon account, which is a clear showing
WP:PROMO has been violated. Also, you don't pass
WP:N through the number of Youtube subscribers you have...
SportingFlyertalk06:53, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment. I think that if this article would have been written as a promotional piece it would have included details that are also included in his personal page or in his twitter account. It would also make him look as the Rockstar of the activist world. But it does not. It is succinct, outdated and it lacks lots of data that is relevant.
When dealing with
current topics, Wikipedia requires
notability verified through
reliable sources, and this article fits here perfectly, namely, to inform readers of a person who has a notable coverage. Mr. Winters’ profile, whom I was totally unfamiliar with prior to arriving to this AfD, has superseded the animal protection and vegan activism by appearing, not only in two news events in major international papers, but in many more. I also find little strength in the argument that these news are hardly related to Mr. Winters when he is at the center of the events reported and often the only name mentioned.
Here are the ones I found together with the ones mentioned above (for perspective). All of these sources fit within what internal discussion in WP has already identified as reliable sources (see
here and
here).
In scholarly circles, at least: one
here. (as per
E.M.Gregory below)
This list is not counting the myriads of references to lesser reliable sources like the
Sun,
Metro, or business
news, and publications dealing with animal rights or vegan
activism. There is something fishy when a brand-new account plunges into AfD debates saying, “Zero reliable sources.” Obviously, this is a statement that cannot be supported by evidence now.
Den... (
talk)
16:45, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Promotion doesn't need to make someone "look like a rockstar." The fact there are links to his specific projects Also, none of those sources listed cover him significantly per
WP:SIGCOV - they all just mention him.
SportingFlyertalk22:42, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Note that I looked at the alleged "scholarly" source above, it is a mere speakers listing of Winters as one of scores of speakers at a conference on animal rights. NOT scholarly.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
13:06, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete as
WP:PROMO for a YouTube activist. Hits in my searches in searches are overwhelmingly to a non-notable animal rights activist website
[1] to which Winters contributes. Hits in RS media are mere mentions of his participation in protests and politically-motivated acts of vandalism. Fails
WP:ANYBIO, fails
WP:SIGCOV.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
As I explained in
this other comment, in which I thanked you for pointing me to the error of
WP:CITEKILL, I asked you to assume good faith from my part (
WP:GF), not to plant doubts about my intentions in order to gain ground with your arguments. I have no stake here at all. I have presented my views and evidences, and wish you all well.
Den... (
talk)
17:13, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Still appears to be a reasonably split consensus, primarily on whether the sources provided are sufficient
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Nosebagbear (
talk)
22:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Fails
WP:SIGCOV. Revisiting. Articles in the list above are mere trivial mentions. non-blueliked publication
Montreal Times: "Ed Winters (Earthling Ed), will be speaking about his activism." (at the not-major-event "Montreal Vegan Festival.) HuffPost quotes him as founder of the non-notable - and recently deleted -
Surge activism.
The Guardian does a little more, "Ed Winters, the co-director of Surge, which orchestrated anti-fur demonstrations that attracted more than 250 people in September, a rise from 120 the previous catwalk season and 25 in September 2016, said 'we expect those numbers to continually rise'". but getting 250 people to a demonstration DOES NOT notability confer. Daily Telegraph is similar: "'It seems strange that although the majority of British society is against the use of fur, it is still being given a platform at London fashion week,' said Ed Winters, co-director of Surge." Then there is the turkey thing:
Vegan activists clash with police after hundreds of turkeys escape trailer "Ed Winters, also known as Earthling Ed, a vegan activist who was at the scene, told of how he was allowed to keep one turkey on his Facebook page." To me, this looks like
WP:PROMO for a non-notable activist. Fails
WP:BASIC;
WP:SIGCOV.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Note this too: it was
E.M.Gregory who accused me in that same case of sockpuppeting and confabulating to manipulate the vote in this AfD, implying I was an interested party, but there is no foundation (can't speak for the others). It was an accusation done in haste. Look for yourself at the
interaction tools and notice the lack of relation. If you had access to my IP address, you would see I am on the other side of the Atlantic, on a smaller island, and have nothing to do with the subject at hand. However, that is not necessary. You only need to study my
contributions and compare them with the others. English is not even my first language, which you should have noticed by now before raising a finger against me. I only wanted to find out about the AfD, learn something new, and amicably share my thoughts but then met your unwarranted denunciation. It does not feel welcoming anymore. Arbitrarily blaming those whom you disagree with of sockpuppeting may work as a weapon to clear the field of your opposites and deviate attention away from their arguments, but is still low. @
E.M.Gregory:, I can't help but to wonder if you have an ax to grind here. If that is not the case, you have shown me an unfriendly way of debating in AfD.
Den... (
talk)
04:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Keep It meets notability criteria for a notable person and is founder of a notable grassroots animal rights organization, with worldwide activists. Also, large amount of YouTube followers: 127,500.
User:Steven02511Signed —Preceding
undated comment added 03:49, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
Steven02511 (
talk)
04:45, 20 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete. Fails
WP:GNG and
WP:PROMO. The sources listed above merely mention him or briefly interview him. They do not cover him significantly. The sources on the page don't either, they're links to help him make money as the nominator pointed out - one is to his freaking Patreon account, which is a clear showing
WP:PROMO has been violated. Also, you don't pass
WP:N through the number of Youtube subscribers you have...
SportingFlyertalk06:53, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment. I think that if this article would have been written as a promotional piece it would have included details that are also included in his personal page or in his twitter account. It would also make him look as the Rockstar of the activist world. But it does not. It is succinct, outdated and it lacks lots of data that is relevant.
When dealing with
current topics, Wikipedia requires
notability verified through
reliable sources, and this article fits here perfectly, namely, to inform readers of a person who has a notable coverage. Mr. Winters’ profile, whom I was totally unfamiliar with prior to arriving to this AfD, has superseded the animal protection and vegan activism by appearing, not only in two news events in major international papers, but in many more. I also find little strength in the argument that these news are hardly related to Mr. Winters when he is at the center of the events reported and often the only name mentioned.
Here are the ones I found together with the ones mentioned above (for perspective). All of these sources fit within what internal discussion in WP has already identified as reliable sources (see
here and
here).
In scholarly circles, at least: one
here. (as per
E.M.Gregory below)
This list is not counting the myriads of references to lesser reliable sources like the
Sun,
Metro, or business
news, and publications dealing with animal rights or vegan
activism. There is something fishy when a brand-new account plunges into AfD debates saying, “Zero reliable sources.” Obviously, this is a statement that cannot be supported by evidence now.
Den... (
talk)
16:45, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Promotion doesn't need to make someone "look like a rockstar." The fact there are links to his specific projects Also, none of those sources listed cover him significantly per
WP:SIGCOV - they all just mention him.
SportingFlyertalk22:42, 21 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Note that I looked at the alleged "scholarly" source above, it is a mere speakers listing of Winters as one of scores of speakers at a conference on animal rights. NOT scholarly.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
13:06, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Delete as
WP:PROMO for a YouTube activist. Hits in my searches in searches are overwhelmingly to a non-notable animal rights activist website
[1] to which Winters contributes. Hits in RS media are mere mentions of his participation in protests and politically-motivated acts of vandalism. Fails
WP:ANYBIO, fails
WP:SIGCOV.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
12:10, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
As I explained in
this other comment, in which I thanked you for pointing me to the error of
WP:CITEKILL, I asked you to assume good faith from my part (
WP:GF), not to plant doubts about my intentions in order to gain ground with your arguments. I have no stake here at all. I have presented my views and evidences, and wish you all well.
Den... (
talk)
17:13, 22 October 2018 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Still appears to be a reasonably split consensus, primarily on whether the sources provided are sufficient
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
Nosebagbear (
talk)
22:38, 2 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Fails
WP:SIGCOV. Revisiting. Articles in the list above are mere trivial mentions. non-blueliked publication
Montreal Times: "Ed Winters (Earthling Ed), will be speaking about his activism." (at the not-major-event "Montreal Vegan Festival.) HuffPost quotes him as founder of the non-notable - and recently deleted -
Surge activism.
The Guardian does a little more, "Ed Winters, the co-director of Surge, which orchestrated anti-fur demonstrations that attracted more than 250 people in September, a rise from 120 the previous catwalk season and 25 in September 2016, said 'we expect those numbers to continually rise'". but getting 250 people to a demonstration DOES NOT notability confer. Daily Telegraph is similar: "'It seems strange that although the majority of British society is against the use of fur, it is still being given a platform at London fashion week,' said Ed Winters, co-director of Surge." Then there is the turkey thing:
Vegan activists clash with police after hundreds of turkeys escape trailer "Ed Winters, also known as Earthling Ed, a vegan activist who was at the scene, told of how he was allowed to keep one turkey on his Facebook page." To me, this looks like
WP:PROMO for a non-notable activist. Fails
WP:BASIC;
WP:SIGCOV.
E.M.Gregory (
talk)
12:55, 5 November 2018 (UTC)reply
Note this too: it was
E.M.Gregory who accused me in that same case of sockpuppeting and confabulating to manipulate the vote in this AfD, implying I was an interested party, but there is no foundation (can't speak for the others). It was an accusation done in haste. Look for yourself at the
interaction tools and notice the lack of relation. If you had access to my IP address, you would see I am on the other side of the Atlantic, on a smaller island, and have nothing to do with the subject at hand. However, that is not necessary. You only need to study my
contributions and compare them with the others. English is not even my first language, which you should have noticed by now before raising a finger against me. I only wanted to find out about the AfD, learn something new, and amicably share my thoughts but then met your unwarranted denunciation. It does not feel welcoming anymore. Arbitrarily blaming those whom you disagree with of sockpuppeting may work as a weapon to clear the field of your opposites and deviate attention away from their arguments, but is still low. @
E.M.Gregory:, I can't help but to wonder if you have an ax to grind here. If that is not the case, you have shown me an unfriendly way of debating in AfD.
Den... (
talk)
04:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.