The result of the debate was delete. Babajobu 16:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete this article on a webcomic which does not meet WP:WEB. This article was listed as a PROD for lack of reliable sources and for not meeting WP:WEB notability guidelines. The PROD was also endorsed by a second user [1]. The PROD tag was later removed by an anon user because, as they wrote on Talk:Dragon_Kingdoms, "Comic Genesis is a major webcomic site" and "The Webcomic List lists many comics, including Dragon Kingdoms." Neither of these are reliable sources or signs that this webcomic meets WP:WEB. " Comic Genesis (formerly Keenspace) is a free hosting provider for webcomics ... there is no requirement to join other than having a comic to put up." "The Webcomic List" seems to list every webcomic submitted to them: "Get your favourite comic listed for free! If you want to see your comic or a comic you read appear on The Webcomic List then please enter the it's [sic] details below! ... Your comic will be added to the list straight away ..." [2] Dragonfiend 02:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Keep. Why? Because of the guideline that states: "7. Content that is distributed by independent online sites will almost certainly satisfy the first criterion." Comic Genesis, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is an independent online site, and if this comic should go, then there are dozens of other comics on this site that should be removed from the webcomic list section. Other reasons that support keeping the article. 1) The series has more than the suggested 70 comics in an 18-month period. 2) It ranks fairly high on a search engine. 3) It might be better to have a list within the Comic Genesis article of the more active webcomics on its site, than remove valuable material from this and other Comic Genesis sites. Again, CG may have thousands of comics, but very few of them are active. -- 65.32.81.3 02:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
If that's the case, couldn't the article be either on Wikimedia or the Comic Genesis wiki? Though it is strange that Comic Genesis isn't considered notable enough. Another possibility, rather than deleting every article in sight, is having the webcomic lists in genres. That way, the main page would still be readable, and people looking for comics of a certain genre can find them. Also, at the time Dragon Kingdoms joined Comic Genesis (which was Keenspace at the time, in April 2004), there WAS a quality requirement (that the comic happened to meet). Part of the re-branding effort in 2005 was for Comic Genesis to be more open to the many webcomics out there, to the extent of registering domains, such as toonspace.com, among others. -- 65.32.81.3 03:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Revised -- Videowizard2006 08:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Close to 500 webcomic articles have been imported to Comixpedia from this site. The decline continues. Though maybe not all of the imports are articles deleted from Wikipedia, I have a feeling a lot of them are. If "there's no way to verify most webcomics' articles" (quoted from Nifboy), why not take them all down? Just make searches for them redirects to the appropriate comic site. As I've already stated, it is pointless for Wikipedia to duplicate the existing sites' (CG and Comixpedia) Wiki directories. This also works because, like it or not, some notable webcomic authors (such as the one of Checkerboard Nightmare) already feel that Wikipedia is a useless source for webcomic information (which I unfortunately agree with them). I looked at the Secret of Mana Theater article (for example), and I fail to see what is so notable about that. Also, I don't know why 2-3 people can shut an article down. Having 10 votes is hardly a large enough sample from the community to allow an article to be deleted, especially when there is no way to check that 5 of these people are Dragonfiend's friends, a well-noted nominator of articles for deletion. This is supposed to be a site for everyone. If your article is simply a description of the characters and the comic's history, and not "LOL, go to teh forumz", or "My comic is da BOMB" what harm does it do to put the word out there? Also, Alexa is no longer supposed to be used as criteria for an article, yet that is what DF has been doing. In fact, I'm thinking about proposing a new standard for webcomics to end this fighting.
I feel that it is fine to have an article on your (or any) webcomic, as long as: 1) It has been around for at least 6 months. 2) It has at least 20 comics in those six months, 70 by the end of 18 months (if a weekly), or 15 comics in 18 months for a monthly. 3) It doesn't go around saying it's the greatest comic ever. It is okay, however, to mention improvements since earlier editions. 4) It at least talks about the characters, mentions the time it started and its website link, and should have some history. That's all. If it isn't well-written, mark for cleanup. If the comic becomes inactive (three months without update) for a long time (like RPG World), it should go into the Inactive list for six months, after which, it can be an AfD (Article for Deletion). Inappropriate articles can go into AfD or SD, depending on severity. Completed webcomics like Kid Radd would be exempt from the Inactive list, and would go under the Completed list. I don't know why we all have to keep fighting, keep arguing, and keep deleting, when there is a simple solution right here.
Finally, to verify, is it so hard to go to said website and look through the archives? I didn't notice anyone checking to see if the info was correct besides DF, which doesn't exactly instill confidence in me. -- Videowizard2006 05:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC) reply
I realized something. As far as I know, this is the first comic series based on a RPG Maker creation. I haven't seen anything about webcomics starting before November 2000 that are based on RPG Maker. How come being first isn't considered notable? After all, there's the first sprite comic, the first Flash comic, the first 3D comic, etc. -- Videowizard2006 07:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC) reply
The result of the debate was delete. Babajobu 16:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Delete this article on a webcomic which does not meet WP:WEB. This article was listed as a PROD for lack of reliable sources and for not meeting WP:WEB notability guidelines. The PROD was also endorsed by a second user [1]. The PROD tag was later removed by an anon user because, as they wrote on Talk:Dragon_Kingdoms, "Comic Genesis is a major webcomic site" and "The Webcomic List lists many comics, including Dragon Kingdoms." Neither of these are reliable sources or signs that this webcomic meets WP:WEB. " Comic Genesis (formerly Keenspace) is a free hosting provider for webcomics ... there is no requirement to join other than having a comic to put up." "The Webcomic List" seems to list every webcomic submitted to them: "Get your favourite comic listed for free! If you want to see your comic or a comic you read appear on The Webcomic List then please enter the it's [sic] details below! ... Your comic will be added to the list straight away ..." [2] Dragonfiend 02:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Keep. Why? Because of the guideline that states: "7. Content that is distributed by independent online sites will almost certainly satisfy the first criterion." Comic Genesis, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, is an independent online site, and if this comic should go, then there are dozens of other comics on this site that should be removed from the webcomic list section. Other reasons that support keeping the article. 1) The series has more than the suggested 70 comics in an 18-month period. 2) It ranks fairly high on a search engine. 3) It might be better to have a list within the Comic Genesis article of the more active webcomics on its site, than remove valuable material from this and other Comic Genesis sites. Again, CG may have thousands of comics, but very few of them are active. -- 65.32.81.3 02:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
If that's the case, couldn't the article be either on Wikimedia or the Comic Genesis wiki? Though it is strange that Comic Genesis isn't considered notable enough. Another possibility, rather than deleting every article in sight, is having the webcomic lists in genres. That way, the main page would still be readable, and people looking for comics of a certain genre can find them. Also, at the time Dragon Kingdoms joined Comic Genesis (which was Keenspace at the time, in April 2004), there WAS a quality requirement (that the comic happened to meet). Part of the re-branding effort in 2005 was for Comic Genesis to be more open to the many webcomics out there, to the extent of registering domains, such as toonspace.com, among others. -- 65.32.81.3 03:55, 18 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Revised -- Videowizard2006 08:58, 20 February 2006 (UTC) reply
Close to 500 webcomic articles have been imported to Comixpedia from this site. The decline continues. Though maybe not all of the imports are articles deleted from Wikipedia, I have a feeling a lot of them are. If "there's no way to verify most webcomics' articles" (quoted from Nifboy), why not take them all down? Just make searches for them redirects to the appropriate comic site. As I've already stated, it is pointless for Wikipedia to duplicate the existing sites' (CG and Comixpedia) Wiki directories. This also works because, like it or not, some notable webcomic authors (such as the one of Checkerboard Nightmare) already feel that Wikipedia is a useless source for webcomic information (which I unfortunately agree with them). I looked at the Secret of Mana Theater article (for example), and I fail to see what is so notable about that. Also, I don't know why 2-3 people can shut an article down. Having 10 votes is hardly a large enough sample from the community to allow an article to be deleted, especially when there is no way to check that 5 of these people are Dragonfiend's friends, a well-noted nominator of articles for deletion. This is supposed to be a site for everyone. If your article is simply a description of the characters and the comic's history, and not "LOL, go to teh forumz", or "My comic is da BOMB" what harm does it do to put the word out there? Also, Alexa is no longer supposed to be used as criteria for an article, yet that is what DF has been doing. In fact, I'm thinking about proposing a new standard for webcomics to end this fighting.
I feel that it is fine to have an article on your (or any) webcomic, as long as: 1) It has been around for at least 6 months. 2) It has at least 20 comics in those six months, 70 by the end of 18 months (if a weekly), or 15 comics in 18 months for a monthly. 3) It doesn't go around saying it's the greatest comic ever. It is okay, however, to mention improvements since earlier editions. 4) It at least talks about the characters, mentions the time it started and its website link, and should have some history. That's all. If it isn't well-written, mark for cleanup. If the comic becomes inactive (three months without update) for a long time (like RPG World), it should go into the Inactive list for six months, after which, it can be an AfD (Article for Deletion). Inappropriate articles can go into AfD or SD, depending on severity. Completed webcomics like Kid Radd would be exempt from the Inactive list, and would go under the Completed list. I don't know why we all have to keep fighting, keep arguing, and keep deleting, when there is a simple solution right here.
Finally, to verify, is it so hard to go to said website and look through the archives? I didn't notice anyone checking to see if the info was correct besides DF, which doesn't exactly instill confidence in me. -- Videowizard2006 05:27, 20 February 2006 (UTC) reply
I realized something. As far as I know, this is the first comic series based on a RPG Maker creation. I haven't seen anything about webcomics starting before November 2000 that are based on RPG Maker. How come being first isn't considered notable? After all, there's the first sprite comic, the first Flash comic, the first 3D comic, etc. -- Videowizard2006 07:04, 21 February 2006 (UTC) reply