- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:59, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Deej Fabyc
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Deej Fabyc ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BIO and WP:ARTIST. 5 of the sources provided are own website. LibStar ( talk) 23:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Australia. LibStar ( talk) 23:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - They are in the collection of the National Gallery of Art, Canberra
[1], however we need at least two museum collections to meet
WP:NARTIST criteria #4.
Netherzone (
talk)
00:03, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can find confirmation of him working at London Metropolitan University, but nothing else.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- She they
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
12:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "the individual", sorry. Oaktree b ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- She they
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
12:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can find confirmation of him working at London Metropolitan University, but nothing else.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- I found and added additional sources - newspaper reviews/notices of exhibitions and events along with indicators of esteem from art/academic sources.
DrawingDays (
talk)
21:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
DrawingDays,
could you please post links here so that we can read and analyze them. Without seeing them it is hard to know if they are significant coverage.I'll have a look at the article. Netherzone ( talk) 13:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC) - Keep
Delete- I went thru the new sources and they are mostly primary, non-independent sources; for example her own website; press releases for projects/oerformances, galleries where she showed, are trivial coverage or don't mention her at all, or are 404s. What is needed to establish notability are the criteria found in WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST; significant coverage in independent reliable sources. The only possible source might be the book, 25 years of performance art in Australia : performance art, performance & events, however WorldCat provides no information on whether is a single sentence on her or a whole chapter, and I am unable to search thru the book on GoogleBooks. Her work is interesting; if quality sources can be found I'm willing to change my !vote. Netherzone ( talk) 14:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC) - Changing my !vote to Keep, after finding that she has a permanent public sculpture at HOTA Sculpture Park, [2], [3], (this would meet criteria #4a of NARTIST) and an entry in the Dictionary of Australian Artists Online [4], while I'm not familiar with this publication, I think it may meet criteria #3 of WP:ANYBIO. Combined with the museum collection, I think she is notable. Netherzone ( talk) 14:40, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
DrawingDays,
- Comment I ran this article through copyright violation detector and it looks to be a large amount of PR copied from the artist's various projects and websites. I removed many embedded links. I think the article is promotional double speak at the moment and needs a rewrite, deleting the large amount of malarkey. Leaning towards TNT, but starting over as well.-- WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 23:06, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Also
DrawingDays might want to
add citations correctly if they want them included in the article. --
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
00:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Can we draftify this? I'd be ok with that too.
Oaktree b (
talk)
19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Oaktree b that is a good idea. I'd also be ok with that.
Netherzone (
talk)
19:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-
Oaktree b and
Netherzone, may I take a scalpel to it? Either in draft state or now?
Draftifyworks for me WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 22:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)- Sure, boldly go.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, that would be great.
Netherzone (
talk)
01:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the article down to a "ThatMontrealIP" stub. I think it falls into the "notable" now.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
15:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Ha! They had a talent for that. Will see now what can be done to start rebuilding it based on reliable sourcing.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you this is Deej Fabyc here could you kindly remove Simeon Nelson from my wiki as we were never married and we split up in 2010 My Partner from 2011-2023 was MJ Newell
- https://rip.ie/death-notice/mark-newell-tipperary-borrisokane-517506
- or this article
- https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2023/05/17/tragic-death-of-borrisokane-artist/
- His Website https://snewell.wixsite.com/asbestostourism
- This link might be of interest
- https://www.academia.edu/37278079/What_is_Performance_Art_Australian_Perspectives_cover_and_contents_page
-
https://www.fabyc.co.uk/index.php/category/biblio/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
22:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hello Deej, thank you for contacting us here. I was the editor who added that content and the personal life section. I will remove it. What would be helpful is providing, here and/or on the article talk page, citations in reliable sources WP:RS, like newspapers, books, and magazines that are fully independent (WP needs secondary sources). That will help us to develop the career section which helps to establish notability as an artist per WP:NARTIST and WP:GNG. Sorry for so many acronyms, it's how WP links to it's policies and guidelines. Thank you for your input. Netherzone ( talk) 23:16, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
-
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/news/deej-fabyc/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
23:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you Deej, for offering the links to these sources. When I find time, will add to the article, or any other unconnected editor can do so as well. Netherzone ( talk) 23:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- https://www.academia.edu/29828264/Forty_years_and_counting
- https://www.academia.edu/7278105/Making_Space_artist_run_initiatives_in_Victoria
- https://www.academia.edu/7278105/Making_Space_artist_run_initiatives_in_Victoria
-
https://www.artsadmin.co.uk/profiles/deej-fabyc/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
00:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Deej Fabyc Here the education section is incorrect as it links to university of south wales I used to be a senior lecturer by coincidence at the university of Wales Newport
- but I obtained my MFA from the University of New South Wales in Sydney Australia 185.55.206.48 ( talk) 00:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Ha! They had a talent for that. Will see now what can be done to start rebuilding it based on reliable sourcing.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the article down to a "ThatMontrealIP" stub. I think it falls into the "notable" now.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
15:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, that would be great.
Netherzone (
talk)
01:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure, boldly go.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-
Oaktree b and
Netherzone, may I take a scalpel to it? Either in draft state or now?
- @
Oaktree b that is a good idea. I'd also be ok with that.
Netherzone (
talk)
19:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Can we draftify this? I'd be ok with that too.
Oaktree b (
talk)
19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Also
DrawingDays might want to
add citations correctly if they want them included in the article. --
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
00:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Changing my vote to Keep. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 00:11, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for trimming the non-essentials, it really helped to understand the foundation, and what is key to the artist's notability.
Netherzone (
talk)
00:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for adding the finer details. I have no understanding of performance art. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 01:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)- Deej Fabyc Here the education section is incorrect as it links to university of south wales I used to be a senior lecturer by coincidence at the university of Wales Newport but I obtained my MFA from the University of New South Wales in Sydney Australia
- could those people who have now voted keep as above please make that clear?
- Thank you
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
10:10, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Deej Fabyc Again
- Here are a load of secodary sources referring to my work if anyone wants to assess
- https://bbeyond.live/one-body/
- https://www.megalo.org/culture-clubs
- https://www.castlefieldgallery.co.uk/event/kisss/
- https://www.thisisliveart.co.uk/publishing/gracegracegrace-explore-gen-age/
- https://www.artspace.org.au/program/exhibitions/2008/artspace-2425/
- https://www.amazon.com/Eight-Artists-Trying-Talk-About/dp/0955406005
- https://www.a-n.co.uk/events/bursary-showing-deej-fabyc-cat-house-camp/
- https://galerijalkatraz.org/?p=3507
- https://www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/articles/open-house/
- https://www.homeliveart.com/event/an-audience-with-bob-roberta-smith-women-should-be-in-charge/
- https://www.a-n.co.uk/reviews/sold-out/
- https://www.mkfm.com/news/local-news/bolshy-older-women-bring-live-art-to-mk-gallery/
- http://15minutefactory.blogspot.com/2009/08/performance-kiss-deej-fabyc.html
- /info/en/?search=List_of_Southern_Cross_University_people
- https://www.artsadmin.co.uk/profiles/deej-fabyc/
- https://www.mutualart.com/Exhibition/A-Connection-Is-Made/F10C76CE0987E58B
- https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2022/07/07/borrisokane-georgian-mansion-to-host-international-performance-art-festival/
- https://www.artscouncil.ie/Funding-decisions/Professional-Development-Award-2020---Fabyc,-Deej-862122919/
- https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Deej-Fabyc-Strawberry-Girl-Projects-1995/22850178812/bd
- https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/james-payne/ghosts-of-deutsche-bank_b_1017119.html\\
- https://spacestudios.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/EightConversations1206_hi.pdf
- https://kudmreza.org/resident-deej-fabyc/
- https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2109810
- https://www.cornerhousepublications.org/publications/making-love-to-my-ego/
- https://www.daao.org.au/bio/deej-fabyc/
- https://www.ktpress.co.uk/nparadoxa-volume-details.asp?volumeid=17
- https://londonewcastle.com/arts/gallery-46/a-connection-is-made
- https://galerijalkatraz.org/?p=10460
- https://shop.monash.edu/private-parts.html
- https://www.roslynoxley9.com.au/exhibition/every-other-day/ljgmn
- https://www.gresolart.com/fem_2020/
-
https://sfsia.art/2016-berlin/2016-berlin-exhibition/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
20:56, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Comment * - As of September 11 the article has been completely rewritten and differs significantly from the article nominated for deletion. Major edits occurred Sept 2 - 5, 2023. I hope that an uninvolved editor reads the article with fresh eyes and then contributes to the conversation. Thank you!. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 01:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Visual arts and Ireland. Netherzone ( talk) 01:32, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, but improve. There are quite a few good sources, and some not so good ones (i.e. a personal website). Also, we need to avoid WP:COI (Conflict of interest) as people aren't generally allowed to edit their own articles, for obvious reasons. You can use Template:Edit_COI on the article's talk page if you want to improve it, along with what your proposed edit is. MarkiPoli ( talk) 13:38, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:59, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
Deej Fabyc
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Deej Fabyc ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:BIO and WP:ARTIST. 5 of the sources provided are own website. LibStar ( talk) 23:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and Australia. LibStar ( talk) 23:32, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - They are in the collection of the National Gallery of Art, Canberra
[1], however we need at least two museum collections to meet
WP:NARTIST criteria #4.
Netherzone (
talk)
00:03, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can find confirmation of him working at London Metropolitan University, but nothing else.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- She they
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
12:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- "the individual", sorry. Oaktree b ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- She they
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
12:07, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete I can find confirmation of him working at London Metropolitan University, but nothing else.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:43, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- I found and added additional sources - newspaper reviews/notices of exhibitions and events along with indicators of esteem from art/academic sources.
DrawingDays (
talk)
21:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
- @
DrawingDays,
could you please post links here so that we can read and analyze them. Without seeing them it is hard to know if they are significant coverage.I'll have a look at the article. Netherzone ( talk) 13:52, 2 September 2023 (UTC) - Keep
Delete- I went thru the new sources and they are mostly primary, non-independent sources; for example her own website; press releases for projects/oerformances, galleries where she showed, are trivial coverage or don't mention her at all, or are 404s. What is needed to establish notability are the criteria found in WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST; significant coverage in independent reliable sources. The only possible source might be the book, 25 years of performance art in Australia : performance art, performance & events, however WorldCat provides no information on whether is a single sentence on her or a whole chapter, and I am unable to search thru the book on GoogleBooks. Her work is interesting; if quality sources can be found I'm willing to change my !vote. Netherzone ( talk) 14:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC) - Changing my !vote to Keep, after finding that she has a permanent public sculpture at HOTA Sculpture Park, [2], [3], (this would meet criteria #4a of NARTIST) and an entry in the Dictionary of Australian Artists Online [4], while I'm not familiar with this publication, I think it may meet criteria #3 of WP:ANYBIO. Combined with the museum collection, I think she is notable. Netherzone ( talk) 14:40, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
DrawingDays,
- Comment I ran this article through copyright violation detector and it looks to be a large amount of PR copied from the artist's various projects and websites. I removed many embedded links. I think the article is promotional double speak at the moment and needs a rewrite, deleting the large amount of malarkey. Leaning towards TNT, but starting over as well.-- WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 23:06, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
- Also
DrawingDays might want to
add citations correctly if they want them included in the article. --
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
00:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Can we draftify this? I'd be ok with that too.
Oaktree b (
talk)
19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- @
Oaktree b that is a good idea. I'd also be ok with that.
Netherzone (
talk)
19:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-
Oaktree b and
Netherzone, may I take a scalpel to it? Either in draft state or now?
Draftifyworks for me WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 22:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)- Sure, boldly go.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, that would be great.
Netherzone (
talk)
01:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the article down to a "ThatMontrealIP" stub. I think it falls into the "notable" now.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
15:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Ha! They had a talent for that. Will see now what can be done to start rebuilding it based on reliable sourcing.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you this is Deej Fabyc here could you kindly remove Simeon Nelson from my wiki as we were never married and we split up in 2010 My Partner from 2011-2023 was MJ Newell
- https://rip.ie/death-notice/mark-newell-tipperary-borrisokane-517506
- or this article
- https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2023/05/17/tragic-death-of-borrisokane-artist/
- His Website https://snewell.wixsite.com/asbestostourism
- This link might be of interest
- https://www.academia.edu/37278079/What_is_Performance_Art_Australian_Perspectives_cover_and_contents_page
-
https://www.fabyc.co.uk/index.php/category/biblio/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
22:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hello Deej, thank you for contacting us here. I was the editor who added that content and the personal life section. I will remove it. What would be helpful is providing, here and/or on the article talk page, citations in reliable sources WP:RS, like newspapers, books, and magazines that are fully independent (WP needs secondary sources). That will help us to develop the career section which helps to establish notability as an artist per WP:NARTIST and WP:GNG. Sorry for so many acronyms, it's how WP links to it's policies and guidelines. Thank you for your input. Netherzone ( talk) 23:16, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
-
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/news/deej-fabyc/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
23:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you Deej, for offering the links to these sources. When I find time, will add to the article, or any other unconnected editor can do so as well. Netherzone ( talk) 23:56, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- https://www.academia.edu/29828264/Forty_years_and_counting
- https://www.academia.edu/7278105/Making_Space_artist_run_initiatives_in_Victoria
- https://www.academia.edu/7278105/Making_Space_artist_run_initiatives_in_Victoria
-
https://www.artsadmin.co.uk/profiles/deej-fabyc/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
00:08, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Deej Fabyc Here the education section is incorrect as it links to university of south wales I used to be a senior lecturer by coincidence at the university of Wales Newport
- but I obtained my MFA from the University of New South Wales in Sydney Australia 185.55.206.48 ( talk) 00:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Ha! They had a talent for that. Will see now what can be done to start rebuilding it based on reliable sourcing.
Netherzone (
talk)
17:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- I edited the article down to a "ThatMontrealIP" stub. I think it falls into the "notable" now.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
15:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, that would be great.
Netherzone (
talk)
01:07, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Sure, boldly go.
Oaktree b (
talk)
23:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-
Oaktree b and
Netherzone, may I take a scalpel to it? Either in draft state or now?
- @
Oaktree b that is a good idea. I'd also be ok with that.
Netherzone (
talk)
19:39, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Can we draftify this? I'd be ok with that too.
Oaktree b (
talk)
19:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Also
DrawingDays might want to
add citations correctly if they want them included in the article. --
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
00:04, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Changing my vote to Keep. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 00:11, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for trimming the non-essentials, it really helped to understand the foundation, and what is key to the artist's notability.
Netherzone (
talk)
00:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for adding the finer details. I have no understanding of performance art. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 01:02, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:24, 6 September 2023 (UTC)- Deej Fabyc Here the education section is incorrect as it links to university of south wales I used to be a senior lecturer by coincidence at the university of Wales Newport but I obtained my MFA from the University of New South Wales in Sydney Australia
- could those people who have now voted keep as above please make that clear?
- Thank you
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
10:10, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Deej Fabyc Again
- Here are a load of secodary sources referring to my work if anyone wants to assess
- https://bbeyond.live/one-body/
- https://www.megalo.org/culture-clubs
- https://www.castlefieldgallery.co.uk/event/kisss/
- https://www.thisisliveart.co.uk/publishing/gracegracegrace-explore-gen-age/
- https://www.artspace.org.au/program/exhibitions/2008/artspace-2425/
- https://www.amazon.com/Eight-Artists-Trying-Talk-About/dp/0955406005
- https://www.a-n.co.uk/events/bursary-showing-deej-fabyc-cat-house-camp/
- https://galerijalkatraz.org/?p=3507
- https://www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/articles/open-house/
- https://www.homeliveart.com/event/an-audience-with-bob-roberta-smith-women-should-be-in-charge/
- https://www.a-n.co.uk/reviews/sold-out/
- https://www.mkfm.com/news/local-news/bolshy-older-women-bring-live-art-to-mk-gallery/
- http://15minutefactory.blogspot.com/2009/08/performance-kiss-deej-fabyc.html
- /info/en/?search=List_of_Southern_Cross_University_people
- https://www.artsadmin.co.uk/profiles/deej-fabyc/
- https://www.mutualart.com/Exhibition/A-Connection-Is-Made/F10C76CE0987E58B
- https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2022/07/07/borrisokane-georgian-mansion-to-host-international-performance-art-festival/
- https://www.artscouncil.ie/Funding-decisions/Professional-Development-Award-2020---Fabyc,-Deej-862122919/
- https://www.abebooks.com/first-edition/Deej-Fabyc-Strawberry-Girl-Projects-1995/22850178812/bd
- https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/james-payne/ghosts-of-deutsche-bank_b_1017119.html\\
- https://spacestudios.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/EightConversations1206_hi.pdf
- https://kudmreza.org/resident-deej-fabyc/
- https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/catalog/2109810
- https://www.cornerhousepublications.org/publications/making-love-to-my-ego/
- https://www.daao.org.au/bio/deej-fabyc/
- https://www.ktpress.co.uk/nparadoxa-volume-details.asp?volumeid=17
- https://londonewcastle.com/arts/gallery-46/a-connection-is-made
- https://galerijalkatraz.org/?p=10460
- https://shop.monash.edu/private-parts.html
- https://www.roslynoxley9.com.au/exhibition/every-other-day/ljgmn
- https://www.gresolart.com/fem_2020/
-
https://sfsia.art/2016-berlin/2016-berlin-exhibition/
185.55.206.48 (
talk)
20:56, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
Comment * - As of September 11 the article has been completely rewritten and differs significantly from the article nominated for deletion. Major edits occurred Sept 2 - 5, 2023. I hope that an uninvolved editor reads the article with fresh eyes and then contributes to the conversation. Thank you!. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 01:24, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Visual arts and Ireland. Netherzone ( talk) 01:32, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, but improve. There are quite a few good sources, and some not so good ones (i.e. a personal website). Also, we need to avoid WP:COI (Conflict of interest) as people aren't generally allowed to edit their own articles, for obvious reasons. You can use Template:Edit_COI on the article's talk page if you want to improve it, along with what your proposed edit is. MarkiPoli ( talk) 13:38, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.