The result was keep. \ Backslash Forwardslash / { talk} 10:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC) reply
An unnecessary POV fork that violates WP:UNDUE. Human Rights Watch is a generally well-regarded NGO that criticizes what it perceives as human rights abuses in various countries. Not surprisingly, some of these countries (and their supporters are not happy about this, and retaliate by questioning HRW's impartiality. The article has allegations of anti-American bias, anti-Israel bias, and anti-Eritrea bias (WTF?) I see no evidence that these criticisms represent a mainstream or consensus view. Those few that are genuinely notable could easily be included in a paragraph or two in the main article. Creating a separate article consisting of nothing but criticism — one that is nearly as long as the main article — is a classic example of undue weight. *** Crotalus *** 16:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC) reply
*Keep - the criticism seems to be notable, but having all this content in the main article would violate
WP:UNDUE.
Pantherskin (
talk) 21:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
reply
I don't have a strong opinion on whether the article is possible in principle. Criticism of HRW may be a notable topic, but that is different from some editors declaring it to be notable because they want the article, regardless of what documentable, encyclopedic criticism is actually referencable. The article as it stood was a dumping ground for someone who just wanted to attack HRW. I have now read every reference that was used in the article at the time of this nomination. If you haven't checked the sources as I have, please don't presume to know what was valid or complain about my removals. The article used blogs as sources of fact, it flat out lied about what sources said, it represented an undergraduate opinion piece as the reporting of the publisher, it gave refs that didn't exist, and so on. The section on Eritrea referred to nothing but Eritrea's disagreement with HRW about one HRW report on Eritrea. If that's a basis for inclusion, the article will be an endless, mammoth dumping ground of governments bashing HRW reports about just those specific governments. The examples need to be systemic criticism, and given the politicized, POV-filled nature of the topic, the sourcing needs to be rigorous. I started a list of guiding principles for this article on the Talk page, please contribute to it if you wish. Noloop ( talk) 16:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC) reply
I've been thinking more about the idea of a POV fork. What would people think if I created an article called "Praise for Human Rights Watch" and filled it with all the great compliments people have given HRW? Taking criticism (or praise) out of the main article takes it out of context. Noloop ( talk) 23:10, 8 August 2009 (UTC) reply
The result was keep. \ Backslash Forwardslash / { talk} 10:12, 11 August 2009 (UTC) reply
An unnecessary POV fork that violates WP:UNDUE. Human Rights Watch is a generally well-regarded NGO that criticizes what it perceives as human rights abuses in various countries. Not surprisingly, some of these countries (and their supporters are not happy about this, and retaliate by questioning HRW's impartiality. The article has allegations of anti-American bias, anti-Israel bias, and anti-Eritrea bias (WTF?) I see no evidence that these criticisms represent a mainstream or consensus view. Those few that are genuinely notable could easily be included in a paragraph or two in the main article. Creating a separate article consisting of nothing but criticism — one that is nearly as long as the main article — is a classic example of undue weight. *** Crotalus *** 16:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC) reply
*Keep - the criticism seems to be notable, but having all this content in the main article would violate
WP:UNDUE.
Pantherskin (
talk) 21:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
reply
I don't have a strong opinion on whether the article is possible in principle. Criticism of HRW may be a notable topic, but that is different from some editors declaring it to be notable because they want the article, regardless of what documentable, encyclopedic criticism is actually referencable. The article as it stood was a dumping ground for someone who just wanted to attack HRW. I have now read every reference that was used in the article at the time of this nomination. If you haven't checked the sources as I have, please don't presume to know what was valid or complain about my removals. The article used blogs as sources of fact, it flat out lied about what sources said, it represented an undergraduate opinion piece as the reporting of the publisher, it gave refs that didn't exist, and so on. The section on Eritrea referred to nothing but Eritrea's disagreement with HRW about one HRW report on Eritrea. If that's a basis for inclusion, the article will be an endless, mammoth dumping ground of governments bashing HRW reports about just those specific governments. The examples need to be systemic criticism, and given the politicized, POV-filled nature of the topic, the sourcing needs to be rigorous. I started a list of guiding principles for this article on the Talk page, please contribute to it if you wish. Noloop ( talk) 16:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC) reply
I've been thinking more about the idea of a POV fork. What would people think if I created an article called "Praise for Human Rights Watch" and filled it with all the great compliments people have given HRW? Taking criticism (or praise) out of the main article takes it out of context. Noloop ( talk) 23:10, 8 August 2009 (UTC) reply