The result was redirect to Iranian presidential election, 2009. The main argument on the "delete" side is that the article is a POV fork. The main argument on the "keep" side is that the article has many reliable sources. However, that argument is well refuted: according to WP:RS: "Some sources may be considered reliable for statements as to their author's opinion, but not for statements of fact. A prime example of this are Op-ed columns that are published in mainstream newspapers." Therefore, the consensus is to delete; redirecting as a possible search term, and allowing for a selective merge with caution. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Original reason for deletion request:
Article name is ambiguous.
The topic of this article is covered in depth at
2009 Iranian presidential election and
2009 Iranian election protests.
—
Ω (
talk) 04:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
reply
Later changed to:
I get tired to explain everything for everyone! so I'll write my answers to your NEW reasons and that's the end.
1-The article name is ambiguous, and simply fails to meet the WP:NAME guidelines.
2-Having to separate articles to describe two different WP:POVs for the same event is a violation of WP:NPOV.
3-This article is clearly a content fork of 2009 Iranian presidential election and 2009 Iranian election protests.
Also you should pay attention that this article is about an event which occurs last month! and it's very soon to decide about it as many analysis will come later! -- Samic130 ( talk) 16:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC) reply
If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
Unfortunately, I should say that there are some WP editors widely ignoring the available facts and sources, and trying to do their best to delete this valuable article (!?). Therefore, I am obliged to correct some of their irrational changes and deletions, and make following notes:
First, I would like to ask the people who need more reliable sources, that what kind of sources you think are available only 3 weeks after the event? Do you need a History text book, or some documents from intelligence services? Normally such documents come after decades. The coup took place only 3 weeks ago, considering this fact in addition to understand the nature of the event, Iran political situation, and blocking the national and international media may help. Surprisingly, if you check list of coups d'état and coup attempts in WP, you cannot find even one reference for most of the events which took place in the recent years and recorded in WP as coup. Then if you check the coup page and click on most of the recently added coups to the page and follow them to their WP websites, you cannot find such a piece of fact established in the History text books or written encyclopedias even for them. However, they have not been requested to be deleted (!?).
Second, all sources provided in this article to support the fact that what happened in Iran is called a “coup” have been written by professional and expert political analysts, and appeared in highly reputable journals, news websites or professional international political agency websites. Of note, none of the sources are personal blogs, even though the professional people may also have their own blogs. I would like to clarify the sources one by one:
1. Omid Memarian is a journalist and blogger known for his news analysis, regular columns and blog. He writes for the IPS (Inter Press Service) news agency and has published op-ed pieces in The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, and The San Francisco Chronicle. He was chief researcher for Reese Erlich’s book entitled Iran Agenda: the Real Story of U.S. Policy and The Middle East Crisis. He received the Human Rights Watch's highest honor in 2005, the ‘Human Rights Defender Award’.
2. Abbas Milani is a historian, Iranologist, and author. Milani is a Visiting Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University, and a Research Fellow and Co-Director of the Iran Democracy Project at the Hoover Institution. He was also an assistant professor of law and political science at the University of Tehran and a member of the board of directors of Tehran University's Center for International Studies from 1979 to 1987. He is currently the Hamid and Christian Moghadam Director of Iranian Studies at Stanford.
3. Foreign Policy In Focus (FPIF) is a "Think Tank Without Walls" connecting the research and action of more than 600 scholars, advocates, and activists seeking to make the United States a more responsible global partner. It is a project of the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, DC.
4. Mehdi Khalaji is an Iranian journalist and political analyst. He is currently a a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, focusing on Iranian politics as well as the politics of Shiite groups in the Middle East.
5. Abbas Djavadi is Associate Director of Broadcasting at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, RFE/RL, overseeing programs in Persian (Radio Farda), Dari and Pashto (Radio Free Afghanistan), Arabic (Radio Free Iraq), Tajik, Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, and Turkmen. Abbas Djavadi has contributed to dozens of newspapers, magazines, broadcast services, and websites in Europe, the U.S., the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. He has published numerous books and dozens of articles, reports, and interviews on languages, literature, socio-linguistics, politics, culture, and history of Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Central Asia, and the Middle East.
6. Danielle Pletk is vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Pletka researches topics related to the Middle East, South Asia, terrorism, and weapons proliferation, and is an American Enterprise Institute expert on Iraq. Formerly, she was a senior professional staff member for Near East and South Asia with the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations from 1992 to 2002. She was a staff writer for Insight on the News from 1987 to 1992 and an editorial assistant with the Los Angeles Times and Reuters, working in Jerusalem from 1984 to 1985.
7. Nico Pitney is National Editor at the Huffington Post. He was previously Deputy Research Director at the Center for American Progress and Managing Editor of ThinkProgress.
8. Maziar Bahari is an Canadian-Iranian journalist and film maker. Since 1998, Bahari has been Newsweek magazine's Iran correspondent.
9. Boston Globe Editorial: At the Boston Globe, as is customary in the news industry, the editorial pages are separate from the news operation. Editorials represent the official view of the Boston Globe as a community institution. The publisher P. Steven Ainsley reserves the right to veto an editorial and usually determines political endorsements for high office.
10. Cameron Abadi covers Iran for GlobalPost. He is a Berlin-based writer with a focus on contemporary Europe and the Middle East. In addition to his work for Germany's two largest weeklies, Die Zeit and Der Spiegel, he has contributed to Foreign Policy, Financial Times magazine and the New Republic. He's also worked for the Berlin bureau of Associated Press.
11. John "Juan" Cole is an American scholar, public intellectual, and historian of modern Middle Eastern and South Asian history. He is Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan. Cole is president and treasurer of the Global Americana Institute, a group of academics specializing in the Middle East who are working to translate the seminal works of American democracy into various Middle Eastern languages. As a commentator on Middle Eastern affairs, he has testified before the United States Senate. He has published several peer-reviewed books on the modern Middle East. Cole has been cited in the press as a Middle East expert several times since 1990. Cole has been an active commentator in the UK and US media on topics related to the Middle East and has become a widely recognized public intellectual. He has published op-eds on the Mideast at the Washington Post, Le Monde Diplomatique, The Guardian, theSan Jose Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, The Boston Review, The Nation, the Daily Star, Tikkun magazine as well as at Salon.com, where he is a frequent contributor.
12. Gary G. Sick is an American academic and analyst of Middle East affairs, with special expertise on Iran, who served on the U.S. National Security Council under three presidents. He has authored three books. Sick served on the staff of the National Security Council under Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan, and was the principal White House aide for Persian Gulf affairs from 1976 to 1981. After leaving government service, Sick served as Deputy Director for International Affairs at the Ford Foundation from 1982 to 1987, and is the executive director of the Gulf/2000 Project at Columbia University (1993-present). He is currently an adjunct professor of International Affairs at Columbia's School of International & Public Affairs, and a senior research scholar at SIPA's Middle East Institute. In addition to his professional duties, he sits on the board of directors of Human Rights Watch, and serves as founding chair of the Advisory Committee of Human Rights Watch/Middle East.
13. openDemocracy is a website for debate about international politics and culture, offering news and opinion articles from established academics, journalists and policymakers covering current issues in world affairs. openDemocracy aims to be an open source creator of agenda-driven news commentary and analysis. openDemocracy was founded in 2000 by Anthony Barnett, David Hayes and Paul Hilder. Publishing started in March 2001. Prominent contributors to the ezine have included Shirin Ebadi, Sidney Blumenthal, David Blunkett, Peter Hain, George Soros, Kofi Annan, Pierre Bourdieu, Manuel Castells and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. openDemocracy's mission statement asserts: "openDemocracy is committed to human rights and democracy. We aim to ensure that marginalised views and voices are heard. We believe facilitating argument and understanding across geographical boundaries is vital to preventing injustice". openDemocracy has been funded by a number of philanthropic organisations (including the Ford Foundation, the Atlantic Philanthropies, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust and other funders. Individual supporters have included Heidi Bergemann, John Cleese, Carl Djerassi, and Pamela Raspe, and Reinhard Hesse.
14. The International Relations and Security Network (ISN) is based at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Switzerland and is part of the Center for Security Studies.
I assume that I do not clarify the reliability and credibility of “The Boston Globe”, “The Huffington Post”, “Forbes”, “The Washington Post”, “The New York Times”, “Newsweek”, “CNN”, “Herald de Paris”, “ABC”, “Associated Press”, “ABC”, “Wall Street Journal”, “BBC”, “Guardian”, “Los Angeles Times”, “Chicago Tribune”, “The Telegraph” and etc. I hope this helps. Thank you.-- Andi horn ( talk) 16:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC) reply
The result was redirect to Iranian presidential election, 2009. The main argument on the "delete" side is that the article is a POV fork. The main argument on the "keep" side is that the article has many reliable sources. However, that argument is well refuted: according to WP:RS: "Some sources may be considered reliable for statements as to their author's opinion, but not for statements of fact. A prime example of this are Op-ed columns that are published in mainstream newspapers." Therefore, the consensus is to delete; redirecting as a possible search term, and allowing for a selective merge with caution. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:08, 12 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Original reason for deletion request:
Article name is ambiguous.
The topic of this article is covered in depth at
2009 Iranian presidential election and
2009 Iranian election protests.
—
Ω (
talk) 04:27, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
reply
Later changed to:
I get tired to explain everything for everyone! so I'll write my answers to your NEW reasons and that's the end.
1-The article name is ambiguous, and simply fails to meet the WP:NAME guidelines.
2-Having to separate articles to describe two different WP:POVs for the same event is a violation of WP:NPOV.
3-This article is clearly a content fork of 2009 Iranian presidential election and 2009 Iranian election protests.
Also you should pay attention that this article is about an event which occurs last month! and it's very soon to decide about it as many analysis will come later! -- Samic130 ( talk) 16:43, 5 July 2009 (UTC) reply
If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has
policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts:{{subst:
spa|username}} ; suspected
canvassed users: {{subst:
canvassed|username}} ; accounts blocked for
sockpuppetry: {{subst:
csm|username}} or {{subst:
csp|username}} . |
Unfortunately, I should say that there are some WP editors widely ignoring the available facts and sources, and trying to do their best to delete this valuable article (!?). Therefore, I am obliged to correct some of their irrational changes and deletions, and make following notes:
First, I would like to ask the people who need more reliable sources, that what kind of sources you think are available only 3 weeks after the event? Do you need a History text book, or some documents from intelligence services? Normally such documents come after decades. The coup took place only 3 weeks ago, considering this fact in addition to understand the nature of the event, Iran political situation, and blocking the national and international media may help. Surprisingly, if you check list of coups d'état and coup attempts in WP, you cannot find even one reference for most of the events which took place in the recent years and recorded in WP as coup. Then if you check the coup page and click on most of the recently added coups to the page and follow them to their WP websites, you cannot find such a piece of fact established in the History text books or written encyclopedias even for them. However, they have not been requested to be deleted (!?).
Second, all sources provided in this article to support the fact that what happened in Iran is called a “coup” have been written by professional and expert political analysts, and appeared in highly reputable journals, news websites or professional international political agency websites. Of note, none of the sources are personal blogs, even though the professional people may also have their own blogs. I would like to clarify the sources one by one:
1. Omid Memarian is a journalist and blogger known for his news analysis, regular columns and blog. He writes for the IPS (Inter Press Service) news agency and has published op-ed pieces in The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times, and The San Francisco Chronicle. He was chief researcher for Reese Erlich’s book entitled Iran Agenda: the Real Story of U.S. Policy and The Middle East Crisis. He received the Human Rights Watch's highest honor in 2005, the ‘Human Rights Defender Award’.
2. Abbas Milani is a historian, Iranologist, and author. Milani is a Visiting Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Iranian Studies Program at Stanford University, and a Research Fellow and Co-Director of the Iran Democracy Project at the Hoover Institution. He was also an assistant professor of law and political science at the University of Tehran and a member of the board of directors of Tehran University's Center for International Studies from 1979 to 1987. He is currently the Hamid and Christian Moghadam Director of Iranian Studies at Stanford.
3. Foreign Policy In Focus (FPIF) is a "Think Tank Without Walls" connecting the research and action of more than 600 scholars, advocates, and activists seeking to make the United States a more responsible global partner. It is a project of the Institute for Policy Studies in Washington, DC.
4. Mehdi Khalaji is an Iranian journalist and political analyst. He is currently a a senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, focusing on Iranian politics as well as the politics of Shiite groups in the Middle East.
5. Abbas Djavadi is Associate Director of Broadcasting at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, RFE/RL, overseeing programs in Persian (Radio Farda), Dari and Pashto (Radio Free Afghanistan), Arabic (Radio Free Iraq), Tajik, Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, and Turkmen. Abbas Djavadi has contributed to dozens of newspapers, magazines, broadcast services, and websites in Europe, the U.S., the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. He has published numerous books and dozens of articles, reports, and interviews on languages, literature, socio-linguistics, politics, culture, and history of Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Central Asia, and the Middle East.
6. Danielle Pletk is vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Pletka researches topics related to the Middle East, South Asia, terrorism, and weapons proliferation, and is an American Enterprise Institute expert on Iraq. Formerly, she was a senior professional staff member for Near East and South Asia with the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations from 1992 to 2002. She was a staff writer for Insight on the News from 1987 to 1992 and an editorial assistant with the Los Angeles Times and Reuters, working in Jerusalem from 1984 to 1985.
7. Nico Pitney is National Editor at the Huffington Post. He was previously Deputy Research Director at the Center for American Progress and Managing Editor of ThinkProgress.
8. Maziar Bahari is an Canadian-Iranian journalist and film maker. Since 1998, Bahari has been Newsweek magazine's Iran correspondent.
9. Boston Globe Editorial: At the Boston Globe, as is customary in the news industry, the editorial pages are separate from the news operation. Editorials represent the official view of the Boston Globe as a community institution. The publisher P. Steven Ainsley reserves the right to veto an editorial and usually determines political endorsements for high office.
10. Cameron Abadi covers Iran for GlobalPost. He is a Berlin-based writer with a focus on contemporary Europe and the Middle East. In addition to his work for Germany's two largest weeklies, Die Zeit and Der Spiegel, he has contributed to Foreign Policy, Financial Times magazine and the New Republic. He's also worked for the Berlin bureau of Associated Press.
11. John "Juan" Cole is an American scholar, public intellectual, and historian of modern Middle Eastern and South Asian history. He is Richard P. Mitchell Collegiate Professor of History at the University of Michigan. Cole is president and treasurer of the Global Americana Institute, a group of academics specializing in the Middle East who are working to translate the seminal works of American democracy into various Middle Eastern languages. As a commentator on Middle Eastern affairs, he has testified before the United States Senate. He has published several peer-reviewed books on the modern Middle East. Cole has been cited in the press as a Middle East expert several times since 1990. Cole has been an active commentator in the UK and US media on topics related to the Middle East and has become a widely recognized public intellectual. He has published op-eds on the Mideast at the Washington Post, Le Monde Diplomatique, The Guardian, theSan Jose Mercury News, the San Francisco Chronicle, The Boston Review, The Nation, the Daily Star, Tikkun magazine as well as at Salon.com, where he is a frequent contributor.
12. Gary G. Sick is an American academic and analyst of Middle East affairs, with special expertise on Iran, who served on the U.S. National Security Council under three presidents. He has authored three books. Sick served on the staff of the National Security Council under Presidents Ford, Carter, and Reagan, and was the principal White House aide for Persian Gulf affairs from 1976 to 1981. After leaving government service, Sick served as Deputy Director for International Affairs at the Ford Foundation from 1982 to 1987, and is the executive director of the Gulf/2000 Project at Columbia University (1993-present). He is currently an adjunct professor of International Affairs at Columbia's School of International & Public Affairs, and a senior research scholar at SIPA's Middle East Institute. In addition to his professional duties, he sits on the board of directors of Human Rights Watch, and serves as founding chair of the Advisory Committee of Human Rights Watch/Middle East.
13. openDemocracy is a website for debate about international politics and culture, offering news and opinion articles from established academics, journalists and policymakers covering current issues in world affairs. openDemocracy aims to be an open source creator of agenda-driven news commentary and analysis. openDemocracy was founded in 2000 by Anthony Barnett, David Hayes and Paul Hilder. Publishing started in March 2001. Prominent contributors to the ezine have included Shirin Ebadi, Sidney Blumenthal, David Blunkett, Peter Hain, George Soros, Kofi Annan, Pierre Bourdieu, Manuel Castells and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. openDemocracy's mission statement asserts: "openDemocracy is committed to human rights and democracy. We aim to ensure that marginalised views and voices are heard. We believe facilitating argument and understanding across geographical boundaries is vital to preventing injustice". openDemocracy has been funded by a number of philanthropic organisations (including the Ford Foundation, the Atlantic Philanthropies, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust and other funders. Individual supporters have included Heidi Bergemann, John Cleese, Carl Djerassi, and Pamela Raspe, and Reinhard Hesse.
14. The International Relations and Security Network (ISN) is based at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Switzerland and is part of the Center for Security Studies.
I assume that I do not clarify the reliability and credibility of “The Boston Globe”, “The Huffington Post”, “Forbes”, “The Washington Post”, “The New York Times”, “Newsweek”, “CNN”, “Herald de Paris”, “ABC”, “Associated Press”, “ABC”, “Wall Street Journal”, “BBC”, “Guardian”, “Los Angeles Times”, “Chicago Tribune”, “The Telegraph” and etc. I hope this helps. Thank you.-- Andi horn ( talk) 16:38, 7 July 2009 (UTC) reply