- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is a consensus that while most elementary schools are not notable this one has enough sourcing to be an exception. Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Community Outreach Academy Elementary
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Elementary schools are almost never notable, and one article in the local paper is not enough to overcome that general lack of notability John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:30, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2021 March 10. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 18:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep It actually has coverage in news sources beyond the basic "Kid X won the geography bee, and their team played the other team." A source from Belarus discussing language classes taught there
[1]. Another article covering the fact that the school caters to people from the Russian and Ukrainian diaspora to Sacramento
[2]. Press release from the Belarusian embassy
[3]. There's also apparently some controversy because some news sources say they have a
Russian Cossack paramilitary youth organization at the Community Outreach Academy in Sacramento, CA
[4]. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 13:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC) - Keep - this is far from a typical elementary and thanks to
ScottishFinnishRadish for finding those great sources. It's extremely unusual for an elementary school to garner accreditation from the national accreditation authorities independently. Almost all accredited elementary schools are accredited due to their school district being accredited.
Charter elementary schools are also uncommon.In its current state, the article sucks, but poor writing isn't a reason to delete. Easily meets GNG, and there's a potential for a GA here. 174.254.192.241 ( talk) 17:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC) - Comment The claim "charter elementary school are uncommon" is just plain bunk. There are dozens of them just in the city of Detroit. Accredidation documents are primary sources, and cannot be used to show notability. One article in the local paper is just not enough to show notability. Press releases never add to notability, so that rubbish should not even be brought up.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- And the international secondary coverage here, here, and here? This wasn't even an exhaustive search for sources, just what I found after a quick perusal. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 19:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- JPL, the Detroit situation is fairly unique. DPS had control of their schools taken away by the state and handed over to a private concern. It isn't typical. They are however not as unusual as I originally thought (69 in Cali, for example), so I will strike that argument. Thanks.
174.254.192.241 (
talk) 20:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Your comment only shows you know nothing about Detroit. The vast majority of charter schools in Detroit were never under DPS control in any way, shape, means or form. So you should stop commenting on what you know nothing about. Most charter schools in Detroit are in buildings that were at one point Catholic parochial schools, and they are often adjacent to present or former Catholic parishes, but there is a broad history of the buildings involved and this does not include all of them. DPS still exists and controls a huge number of buildings. There are also a large number of charter elementary schools in Detroit's sububrs. 69 is not nearly as rare a number as you claim. The sourcing here is still not enough to pass our notability guidelines. Stop lieing about the nature of Detroit schools. I taught at multiple charter schools in the city of Detroit, and my grandson has attended others, and none of these institutions were in buildings that were ever under DPS control, nor were they in any way, shape means or form connected to any institution that was every under DPS control. You are completely and totally ignorant of the situation in Detroit and so should stop commenting on something you know nothing about. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment One charter school I taught at in Detroit was intentionally built as a charter school. Another I taught at in Warren was in a former grocery store. Both were 8th grade and under only, and both had no institutional connections in any way to any school district. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 15:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 15:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep: This is a part of AfD of particular interest to me -- primary schools nominated under the premise that primary schools are non-notable, but where the school in question actually does appear to be so. It's certainly not run-of-the-mill for primary schools to have international coverage or Cossack militia. That said, the article sucks, and no one seems to have demonstrated the enthusiasm to make the article suck less; I am reticent to unhesitantingly support keeping articles in terrible shape that can be expected to remain so indefinitely. Vaticidal prophet 07:50, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is a consensus that while most elementary schools are not notable this one has enough sourcing to be an exception. Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Community Outreach Academy Elementary
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Community Outreach Academy Elementary ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Elementary schools are almost never notable, and one article in the local paper is not enough to overcome that general lack of notability John Pack Lambert ( talk) 18:30, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2021 March 10. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 18:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 18:46, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep It actually has coverage in news sources beyond the basic "Kid X won the geography bee, and their team played the other team." A source from Belarus discussing language classes taught there
[1]. Another article covering the fact that the school caters to people from the Russian and Ukrainian diaspora to Sacramento
[2]. Press release from the Belarusian embassy
[3]. There's also apparently some controversy because some news sources say they have a
Russian Cossack paramilitary youth organization at the Community Outreach Academy in Sacramento, CA
[4]. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 13:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC) - Keep - this is far from a typical elementary and thanks to
ScottishFinnishRadish for finding those great sources. It's extremely unusual for an elementary school to garner accreditation from the national accreditation authorities independently. Almost all accredited elementary schools are accredited due to their school district being accredited.
Charter elementary schools are also uncommon.In its current state, the article sucks, but poor writing isn't a reason to delete. Easily meets GNG, and there's a potential for a GA here. 174.254.192.241 ( talk) 17:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC) - Comment The claim "charter elementary school are uncommon" is just plain bunk. There are dozens of them just in the city of Detroit. Accredidation documents are primary sources, and cannot be used to show notability. One article in the local paper is just not enough to show notability. Press releases never add to notability, so that rubbish should not even be brought up.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- And the international secondary coverage here, here, and here? This wasn't even an exhaustive search for sources, just what I found after a quick perusal. ScottishFinnishRadish ( talk) 19:24, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- JPL, the Detroit situation is fairly unique. DPS had control of their schools taken away by the state and handed over to a private concern. It isn't typical. They are however not as unusual as I originally thought (69 in Cali, for example), so I will strike that argument. Thanks.
174.254.192.241 (
talk) 20:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Your comment only shows you know nothing about Detroit. The vast majority of charter schools in Detroit were never under DPS control in any way, shape, means or form. So you should stop commenting on what you know nothing about. Most charter schools in Detroit are in buildings that were at one point Catholic parochial schools, and they are often adjacent to present or former Catholic parishes, but there is a broad history of the buildings involved and this does not include all of them. DPS still exists and controls a huge number of buildings. There are also a large number of charter elementary schools in Detroit's sububrs. 69 is not nearly as rare a number as you claim. The sourcing here is still not enough to pass our notability guidelines. Stop lieing about the nature of Detroit schools. I taught at multiple charter schools in the city of Detroit, and my grandson has attended others, and none of these institutions were in buildings that were ever under DPS control, nor were they in any way, shape means or form connected to any institution that was every under DPS control. You are completely and totally ignorant of the situation in Detroit and so should stop commenting on something you know nothing about. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:48, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment One charter school I taught at in Detroit was intentionally built as a charter school. Another I taught at in Warren was in a former grocery store. Both were 8th grade and under only, and both had no institutional connections in any way to any school district. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 15:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 15:30, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
- Weak keep: This is a part of AfD of particular interest to me -- primary schools nominated under the premise that primary schools are non-notable, but where the school in question actually does appear to be so. It's certainly not run-of-the-mill for primary schools to have international coverage or Cossack militia. That said, the article sucks, and no one seems to have demonstrated the enthusiasm to make the article suck less; I am reticent to unhesitantingly support keeping articles in terrible shape that can be expected to remain so indefinitely. Vaticidal prophet 07:50, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.