- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Of note is that the article was renamed to Clive Disposal Site during the course of this discussion. North America 1000 07:49, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
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- Clive, Utah ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Appears to have been, originally, a very isolated rail siding, which could explain why the dropped a nuclear waste storage area just south of it. There's a highway exit for "Clive", but there's no Clive. Mangoe ( talk) 02:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 March 10. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 02:47, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Utah. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 03:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- (Author) Keep There are references to Clive in early highway guides, which wouldn't make sense unless it was some kind of a destination. But ultimately, I think the value of the article rests primarily on the fact of the industry located there, particularly the waste storage, which has received media attention and has been going on for more than 50 years. This is a place where significant human land use has occurred. Chubbles ( talk) 12:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've had a lot of experience in dealing with dots on a map, and experience has shown that they aren't of terribly much value as to what is actually at the dot. Often enough, there's nothing at all. Mangoe ( talk) 18:20, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- Only on Wikipedia could we see argued with a straight face that the Tooele County West Desert Hazardous Industries Area, which was selected as an unpopulated area by the County because prior sites had started to become populated, which is in a region recorded by the County itself as having "no population outside of the East Wendover area", and which actually has environmental impact statements listing surveys that there is no sign of human settlement in the area for the past several thousand years, a "community" and a "populated place"; and that the earlier railroad maintenance stop and non-agency station which closed in 1955 was a "destination". (The EISs record that there was only a "dirt road" there before the hazardous waste companies constructed their access road.)
But then we've also got the falsehood that Aragonite, Utah, the location of an aragonite mill, and likewise with no evidence of ever being settled by humans, is a "ghost town". Knolls, Utah was another non-agency railroad station and highway construction camp for I-80, not a "community". (Van Cott is, once again, cited and then mis-used.) Barro, Utah was another non-agency railroad station. So too was Arinosa, Utah (Van Cott even saying "siding", "no permanent residents", and "maintenance camp", and yet again abused).
If this were any other subject where people were injecting these sorts of falsehoods into Wikipedia, and not an outcrop of the GNIS mess, we'd be crying systematic hoaxery at this point, articles claiming things that are not and never were, with sources that outright contradict the articles.
Uncle G ( talk) 01:25, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- "I-80 Corridor Planning District" (PDF). Tooele County General Plan. Tooele County. 2016.
- Van Cott, John W. (1990). "Clive Siding". Utah Place Names: A Comprehensive Guide to the Origins of Geographic Names : a Compilation. University of Utah Press. ISBN 9780874803457.
- USPCI Clive Incineration Facility, Tooele County: Environmental Impact Statement. United States Bureau of Land Management. 1990.
- Aptus Industrial and Hazardous Waste Treatment Facility, Tooele County: Environmental Impact Statement. United States Bureau of Land Management. 1988.
- Weder, D. (1981). Cultural resource inventory of one square mile in the Clive locality. Bountiful, UT: Archaeological-Environmental Research Corporation.
- The argument you're making here is really for changing the article, not deleting it. I'm not really contesting the semantics of what constitutes a "town" or a "community", but I am interested in the encyclopedia covering human uses of land, and this is land with a history that deserves encyclopedic coverage. Perhaps we should rename it or change how it is covered, but deleting it is counterproductive. Chubbles ( talk) 01:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep and rename as Clive Disposal Facility or Clive Radioactive Waste Site, which is notable as a Class A RadWaste facility. Clive is a big deal in the US RadWaste arena, even if it was not a community or settlement. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], etc. Netherzone ( talk) 05:28, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: per Netherzone. I've updated the article to incorporate some of their sources and renamed it accordingly. –– FormalDude talk 05:08, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Of note is that the article was renamed to Clive Disposal Site during the course of this discussion. North America 1000 07:49, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Clive, Utah ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Appears to have been, originally, a very isolated rail siding, which could explain why the dropped a nuclear waste storage area just south of it. There's a highway exit for "Clive", but there's no Clive. Mangoe ( talk) 02:26, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 March 10. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 02:47, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Utah. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 03:12, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- (Author) Keep There are references to Clive in early highway guides, which wouldn't make sense unless it was some kind of a destination. But ultimately, I think the value of the article rests primarily on the fact of the industry located there, particularly the waste storage, which has received media attention and has been going on for more than 50 years. This is a place where significant human land use has occurred. Chubbles ( talk) 12:23, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've had a lot of experience in dealing with dots on a map, and experience has shown that they aren't of terribly much value as to what is actually at the dot. Often enough, there's nothing at all. Mangoe ( talk) 18:20, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- Only on Wikipedia could we see argued with a straight face that the Tooele County West Desert Hazardous Industries Area, which was selected as an unpopulated area by the County because prior sites had started to become populated, which is in a region recorded by the County itself as having "no population outside of the East Wendover area", and which actually has environmental impact statements listing surveys that there is no sign of human settlement in the area for the past several thousand years, a "community" and a "populated place"; and that the earlier railroad maintenance stop and non-agency station which closed in 1955 was a "destination". (The EISs record that there was only a "dirt road" there before the hazardous waste companies constructed their access road.)
But then we've also got the falsehood that Aragonite, Utah, the location of an aragonite mill, and likewise with no evidence of ever being settled by humans, is a "ghost town". Knolls, Utah was another non-agency railroad station and highway construction camp for I-80, not a "community". (Van Cott is, once again, cited and then mis-used.) Barro, Utah was another non-agency railroad station. So too was Arinosa, Utah (Van Cott even saying "siding", "no permanent residents", and "maintenance camp", and yet again abused).
If this were any other subject where people were injecting these sorts of falsehoods into Wikipedia, and not an outcrop of the GNIS mess, we'd be crying systematic hoaxery at this point, articles claiming things that are not and never were, with sources that outright contradict the articles.
Uncle G ( talk) 01:25, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- "I-80 Corridor Planning District" (PDF). Tooele County General Plan. Tooele County. 2016.
- Van Cott, John W. (1990). "Clive Siding". Utah Place Names: A Comprehensive Guide to the Origins of Geographic Names : a Compilation. University of Utah Press. ISBN 9780874803457.
- USPCI Clive Incineration Facility, Tooele County: Environmental Impact Statement. United States Bureau of Land Management. 1990.
- Aptus Industrial and Hazardous Waste Treatment Facility, Tooele County: Environmental Impact Statement. United States Bureau of Land Management. 1988.
- Weder, D. (1981). Cultural resource inventory of one square mile in the Clive locality. Bountiful, UT: Archaeological-Environmental Research Corporation.
- The argument you're making here is really for changing the article, not deleting it. I'm not really contesting the semantics of what constitutes a "town" or a "community", but I am interested in the encyclopedia covering human uses of land, and this is land with a history that deserves encyclopedic coverage. Perhaps we should rename it or change how it is covered, but deleting it is counterproductive. Chubbles ( talk) 01:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep and rename as Clive Disposal Facility or Clive Radioactive Waste Site, which is notable as a Class A RadWaste facility. Clive is a big deal in the US RadWaste arena, even if it was not a community or settlement. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], etc. Netherzone ( talk) 05:28, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: per Netherzone. I've updated the article to incorporate some of their sources and renamed it accordingly. –– FormalDude talk 05:08, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.