- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 23:22, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Charles G. Ridgeley
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Apparently a US Navy Captain in the early 1800s with no significant awards or decorations. Page has been unreferenced since 2009 and while there are a few sources I don't believe they amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS necessary to meet WP:GNG. Mztourist ( talk) 10:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Delete/Comment I think captains count as 'field grade officers' rather than 'flag/general officers'. If so, WP:OUTCOMES state that field grade officers must demonstrate notability independent of their military rank. If captains are flag/general officers, then they are notable in their own right. But, assuming that my intuition is right that the subject is a field grade officer, I don't think the subject meets general notability. Bibliopole5795 ( talk) 11:25, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Flag/general officers have no inherent notability, they must satisfy WP:GNG. 11:56, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- @ Bibliopole5795: I found a source that describes the subject as a flag officer, for what it's worth. — MarkH21 talk 08:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist ( talk) 10:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:43, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Delete this unsourced article has existed for over 16 years. Holders of the office of captain are not default notable, and even if they were we would need a reliable source to at least verrify what is said. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: It turned up in my search that the subject had sort of received the
Congressional Gold Medal (which would qualify normal recipients as notable under
WP:ANYBIO#1). A 1923 book plainly said that Ridgeley received it.
[1] However, the 1805 Congress citation had the medal
presented to Commodore Edward Preble, and through him to the officers, petty officers, seamen and marines attached to the squadron under his command
[2] and presentedswords to each of the commissioned officers and Midshipmen who had distinguished themselves in the several attacks
. [3] Ridgeley was a recipient of the medal in an indirect sense, but probably not directly enough for ANYBIO#1.However, ifFlag officers, general officers and their service equivalents (e.g., Air officers) are generally considered notable
( common AfD outcomes, pointed out by Bibliopole5795), it is worth noting that he was explicitly described asFlag Officer Charles G. Ridgeley
. [1]I found a few other minor mentions in reliable sources (e.g. Small Boats and Daring Men: Maritime Raiding, Irregular Warfare, and the Early American Navy, Appendix M - Inventory of the Naval Records Collection of the Office of Naval Records and Library, Freedom's Mercenaries: Southern South America and A History of the United States Navy from 1775 to 1901) that describe parts of his career. The first source, for instance, describes his service (under the spelling "Ridgely") under Preble at the Second Battle of Tripoli Harbor (which led to the Congressional Gold Medal). They aren't substantial enough for WP:GNG though. — MarkH21 talk 08:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)- More tangential, but his name appears to have been originally "Charles Ridgely Goodwin" and was legally changed to "Charles Goodwin Ridgely" at the behest of his uncle Charles Ridgely III, who did the same to another nephew in Charles Carnan Ridgely. [4] [5] [6] There are lots of small biographical details out there. — MarkH21 talk 09:03, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: There is a biography in
The Biographical Dictionary of America (
wikisource) that mentions all of the above: his service under Preble in the First Barbary War, receipt of a sword (attached to the Congressional Gold Medal), service as a flag officer in the West Indies, service as Commandant of the Brooklyn Navy Yard, and service as a flag officer in Brazil.
[10]
[11] Besides my previous comment about
WP:ANYBIO#1 and
WP:OUTCOMES#Military, that is also a case for notability under ANYBIO#3. —
MarkH21
talk 09:57, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- I also found significant coverage (9 full paragraphs) on Ridgeley here: Johnson, Robert Erwin (1963). "Chapter 3: From Ship to Squadron". Thence round Cape Horn. United States Naval Institute. — MarkH21 talk 13:20, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
References
- ^
a
b Bradlee, Francis Boardman Crowninshield (1923).
Piracy in the West Indies and Its Suppression.
Essex institute. p. 133.
ISBN
9780598618450.
In 1828 the United States West India squadron was commanded by Flag Officer Charles G. Ridgeley (for his gallant services during the war with the Barbary corsairs this officer had received the congressional gold medal of honor)
- ^ "Edward Preble Congressional Medal, Bronze". Naval History and Heritage Command. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ "Edward Preble". Naval History and Heritage Command. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ Naval Documents Related to the United States Wars with the Barbary Powers Volume V
- ^ William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, Volume 8
- ^ Annual Report, Volume 16, American Scenic and Historic Preservation Society
- ^ "The Brooklyn Navy Yard – Its Early History and Present Condition – Who Have Been Commanders – Vessels Pitted Oat – The Workmen and the Buildings". The New York Times. March 13, 1870. p. 8. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ "Photos Will Greet Him". New York Daily News. October 11, 1908. p. 46. Retrieved March 18, 2021 – via Newspapers.com.
- ^ "Ridgely, Charles Goodwin, 1784-1848". Redwood Library and Athenaeum. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ Johnson, Rossiter; Brown, John Howard, eds. (1904). The Twentieth Century Biographical Dictionary of Notable Americans. Vol. IX. Boston: The Biographical Society. p. 112.
- ^ Johnson, Rossiter; Brown, John Howard, eds. (1906). The Biographical Dictionary of America. Vol. IX. Boston: The Biographical Society. p. 112.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 11:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 11:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - an obvious keep due to the plethora of material since presented by MarkH21 above. This person is notable on several points. - wolf 03:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV per the sources provided in evidence above. Nominator should consider withdrawing their nomination. 4meter4 ( talk) 01:12, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Spartaz Humbug! 23:22, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Charles G. Ridgeley
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Charles G. Ridgeley ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Apparently a US Navy Captain in the early 1800s with no significant awards or decorations. Page has been unreferenced since 2009 and while there are a few sources I don't believe they amount to SIGCOV in multiple RS necessary to meet WP:GNG. Mztourist ( talk) 10:29, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Delete/Comment I think captains count as 'field grade officers' rather than 'flag/general officers'. If so, WP:OUTCOMES state that field grade officers must demonstrate notability independent of their military rank. If captains are flag/general officers, then they are notable in their own right. But, assuming that my intuition is right that the subject is a field grade officer, I don't think the subject meets general notability. Bibliopole5795 ( talk) 11:25, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Flag/general officers have no inherent notability, they must satisfy WP:GNG. 11:56, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- @ Bibliopole5795: I found a source that describes the subject as a flag officer, for what it's worth. — MarkH21 talk 08:50, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Mztourist ( talk) 10:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Maryland-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 10:43, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
- Delete this unsourced article has existed for over 16 years. Holders of the office of captain are not default notable, and even if they were we would need a reliable source to at least verrify what is said. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 21:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: It turned up in my search that the subject had sort of received the
Congressional Gold Medal (which would qualify normal recipients as notable under
WP:ANYBIO#1). A 1923 book plainly said that Ridgeley received it.
[1] However, the 1805 Congress citation had the medal
presented to Commodore Edward Preble, and through him to the officers, petty officers, seamen and marines attached to the squadron under his command
[2] and presentedswords to each of the commissioned officers and Midshipmen who had distinguished themselves in the several attacks
. [3] Ridgeley was a recipient of the medal in an indirect sense, but probably not directly enough for ANYBIO#1.However, ifFlag officers, general officers and their service equivalents (e.g., Air officers) are generally considered notable
( common AfD outcomes, pointed out by Bibliopole5795), it is worth noting that he was explicitly described asFlag Officer Charles G. Ridgeley
. [1]I found a few other minor mentions in reliable sources (e.g. Small Boats and Daring Men: Maritime Raiding, Irregular Warfare, and the Early American Navy, Appendix M - Inventory of the Naval Records Collection of the Office of Naval Records and Library, Freedom's Mercenaries: Southern South America and A History of the United States Navy from 1775 to 1901) that describe parts of his career. The first source, for instance, describes his service (under the spelling "Ridgely") under Preble at the Second Battle of Tripoli Harbor (which led to the Congressional Gold Medal). They aren't substantial enough for WP:GNG though. — MarkH21 talk 08:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)- More tangential, but his name appears to have been originally "Charles Ridgely Goodwin" and was legally changed to "Charles Goodwin Ridgely" at the behest of his uncle Charles Ridgely III, who did the same to another nephew in Charles Carnan Ridgely. [4] [5] [6] There are lots of small biographical details out there. — MarkH21 talk 09:03, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: There is a biography in
The Biographical Dictionary of America (
wikisource) that mentions all of the above: his service under Preble in the First Barbary War, receipt of a sword (attached to the Congressional Gold Medal), service as a flag officer in the West Indies, service as Commandant of the Brooklyn Navy Yard, and service as a flag officer in Brazil.
[10]
[11] Besides my previous comment about
WP:ANYBIO#1 and
WP:OUTCOMES#Military, that is also a case for notability under ANYBIO#3. —
MarkH21
talk 09:57, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- I also found significant coverage (9 full paragraphs) on Ridgeley here: Johnson, Robert Erwin (1963). "Chapter 3: From Ship to Squadron". Thence round Cape Horn. United States Naval Institute. — MarkH21 talk 13:20, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
References
- ^
a
b Bradlee, Francis Boardman Crowninshield (1923).
Piracy in the West Indies and Its Suppression.
Essex institute. p. 133.
ISBN
9780598618450.
In 1828 the United States West India squadron was commanded by Flag Officer Charles G. Ridgeley (for his gallant services during the war with the Barbary corsairs this officer had received the congressional gold medal of honor)
- ^ "Edward Preble Congressional Medal, Bronze". Naval History and Heritage Command. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ "Edward Preble". Naval History and Heritage Command. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ Naval Documents Related to the United States Wars with the Barbary Powers Volume V
- ^ William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, Volume 8
- ^ Annual Report, Volume 16, American Scenic and Historic Preservation Society
- ^ "The Brooklyn Navy Yard – Its Early History and Present Condition – Who Have Been Commanders – Vessels Pitted Oat – The Workmen and the Buildings". The New York Times. March 13, 1870. p. 8. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ "Photos Will Greet Him". New York Daily News. October 11, 1908. p. 46. Retrieved March 18, 2021 – via Newspapers.com.
- ^ "Ridgely, Charles Goodwin, 1784-1848". Redwood Library and Athenaeum. Retrieved March 18, 2021.
- ^ Johnson, Rossiter; Brown, John Howard, eds. (1904). The Twentieth Century Biographical Dictionary of Notable Americans. Vol. IX. Boston: The Biographical Society. p. 112.
- ^ Johnson, Rossiter; Brown, John Howard, eds. (1906). The Biographical Dictionary of America. Vol. IX. Boston: The Biographical Society. p. 112.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 11:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Go Phightins ! 11:14, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep - an obvious keep due to the plethora of material since presented by MarkH21 above. This person is notable on several points. - wolf 03:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Passes WP:SIGCOV per the sources provided in evidence above. Nominator should consider withdrawing their nomination. 4meter4 ( talk) 01:12, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.