- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. It looks like the article has basically been rewritten and editors who have commented beieve it now meets Wikipedia's standards. Liz Read! Talk! 21:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Cassie Cage
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Cassie Cage ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article fails WP:GNG and should probably be merged to the list of characters. The only WP:SIGCOV I have found is a single article here, everything else is a trivial mention or from a situational source. There were two things about her that drew some slight attention, one is a controversy her design being similar to a MMA fighter that quickly was ignored, another was her selfie fatality that was picked up upon its announcement and then forgotten about. None indicate enduring notability for the character. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep.While the article could use some improvement (particularly the Other media section's mentions of her comic book appearances) when it comes to references, I think there's a good amount of referencing (and from reliable sources, obviously) in the rest of the sections. So don't think it fails GNG. And calling "everything else" a trivial mention seems reductionist.
- On the note of the selfie fatality, I'm pretty sure even if "forgotten about", WP:NTEMP should apply here. While yes, I think it's true that it hasn't been covered today in the same way it was back in 2015, it's also true that this was a fatality from the 2015 game, and there's been the release of MK11 release since then. But.. I did find this 2019 source that mentions the selfie fatality. So that should probably quell any such "forgotten about" concerns about her fatality. The 2019 source also brings up things that would be good to include in her Development/Design section (which I'll be working on shortly).
- On the Felice Herrig (MMA fighter design controversy) note, I don't see the issue? It's relating to her design and while it seems like there's been no legal development in that situation, I really don't think that just because it was "ignored" makes it any less relevant for inclusion in the appropriate Design section? Regardless, I added info to the article so that it now includes Herrig stating her camp was looking into legal options and that no action developed from that.
- Way more options exist for this than deleting, so I'm currently looking for other ways to improve the article but I think this is a strong Keep. Thanks for the Game Informer reference. Will be using it to add to this article.
Soulbust (
talk) 21:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- In response to the articles about the selfie fatality and her other fatalities, this quote from WP:GNG will suffice: Not all coverage in reliable sources constitutes evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation; for example, directories and databases, advertisements, announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources.
- As for the MMA controversy, the lack of any development suggests it was clickbait journalism at best. This is not a
Kadabra situation in which a lawsuit was actually filed and noted on Wikinews.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 22:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Seems pessimistic; the lack of any development more probably suggests Herrig's camp opted not to follow through on legal action. Not following through on that obviously wouldn't get news coverage, because it would be making a story out of literally no ocurrence. While I think VG journalism is prone to clickbait, the headlines covering this particular situation don't read as clickbait (1: MMA Star Says Mortal Kombat Likeness "Cannot Be A Coincidence"; 2: Felice Herrig: I think Cassie Cage from "Mortal Kombat" is 100% me, 3:UFC's Felice Herrig Talks About Comparison With Mortal Kombat X's Cassie Cage, 4: Felice Herrig's camp looking into possible legal action against Mortal Kombat developer). They read as pretty good encapsulations of the situation as it happened. Soulbust ( talk) 22:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also nice highlight of "minor news stories", but it seems subjective. It's also confusing thinking. Even if you count all of the sources covering the fatality (of which there is a high amount) as minor, wouldn't the shear amount of them show a support of its notability? And then we're just talking about the fatality itself. The character herself has even greater amounts of coverage. I think the fatality is just one component of her character that was positively received.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also looks like there is some sort of litmus test being conducted with articles on
Sektor,
Skarlet, and
Cyrax being merged, with
Nightwolf being kept as per no consensus, and
Rain currently pending. I'd probably be remiss to not mention that Cassie probably has an inherent greater notability than those characters as per being the main protagonist of MKX. But, that's irrelevant imo, because the sourcing on this article helps support notability regardless of her function as that game's main protag. Will continue to help improve article over the coming days.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Will continue to edit the article later. I've added reliable, relevant sourcing + context. And in addition, I've also removed any sourcing that's been tagged as unreliable as per the VG WikiProject. Where needed/applicable, I've replaced it with reliable sourcing. What I've noticed is that this article was just severely out-of-date, or at least much more out-of-date than I previously thought. Although her appearance in MK11 was added back in 2019, the relevant design and gameplay changes, as well as reception regarding her MK11 appearance was not added. Again, will continue to make changes to this article later today/this week. Soulbust ( talk) 16:17, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also looks like there is some sort of litmus test being conducted with articles on
Sektor,
Skarlet, and
Cyrax being merged, with
Nightwolf being kept as per no consensus, and
Rain currently pending. I'd probably be remiss to not mention that Cassie probably has an inherent greater notability than those characters as per being the main protagonist of MKX. But, that's irrelevant imo, because the sourcing on this article helps support notability regardless of her function as that game's main protag. Will continue to help improve article over the coming days.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Way more options exist for this than deleting, so I'm currently looking for other ways to improve the article but I think this is a strong Keep. Thanks for the Game Informer reference. Will be using it to add to this article.
Soulbust (
talk) 21:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge - Bulk of the content seems to be listicles and cherry-picked trivial mentions. What remains when all the gunk is removed can probably easily fit on the character list until such a time when more substantial sources can be provided. TTN ( talk) 22:36, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Bulk of what content? Listicles are only included in the Reception section, and in pretty obvious situations (i.e. a publication calling Cassie nth best MK character). "Cherry-picked" is also a pretty interesting comment? Where is that coming from? How is any of it cherry-picked? I'm trying to contribute in a way that gives readers a good as possible understanding of the character's design history, gameplay features, etc. (info any other VG character article would include). Very interested, then, to get a better understanding as to what exactly is "cherry-picked trivial mentions." Because just saying that without giving context seems unhelpful here. And over the past day or so I've added more substantial content and sourcing and am still in the process of doing so. Soulbust ( talk) 23:36, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Per Soulbust's arguments. Nice work on the article, by the way. If I find any good sources, I'll bring them up too. MoonJet ( talk) 01:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Great job by Soulbust improving the article. Satellizer el Bridget (Talk) 03:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Cassie is a terrible character but right now she is a face of the franchise and consequently passes notability at this time. Her tenure in the series is still young and thus leaves the door open for more future critical reception, while in contrast the four recent victims of merging have faded into relative obscurity. I did make a few tweaks and removed a nonviable VG source. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 04:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Per Soulbust Lightburst ( talk) 00:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. It looks like the article has basically been rewritten and editors who have commented beieve it now meets Wikipedia's standards. Liz Read! Talk! 21:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
Cassie Cage
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Cassie Cage ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article fails WP:GNG and should probably be merged to the list of characters. The only WP:SIGCOV I have found is a single article here, everything else is a trivial mention or from a situational source. There were two things about her that drew some slight attention, one is a controversy her design being similar to a MMA fighter that quickly was ignored, another was her selfie fatality that was picked up upon its announcement and then forgotten about. None indicate enduring notability for the character. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements and Video games. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 20:17, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep.While the article could use some improvement (particularly the Other media section's mentions of her comic book appearances) when it comes to references, I think there's a good amount of referencing (and from reliable sources, obviously) in the rest of the sections. So don't think it fails GNG. And calling "everything else" a trivial mention seems reductionist.
- On the note of the selfie fatality, I'm pretty sure even if "forgotten about", WP:NTEMP should apply here. While yes, I think it's true that it hasn't been covered today in the same way it was back in 2015, it's also true that this was a fatality from the 2015 game, and there's been the release of MK11 release since then. But.. I did find this 2019 source that mentions the selfie fatality. So that should probably quell any such "forgotten about" concerns about her fatality. The 2019 source also brings up things that would be good to include in her Development/Design section (which I'll be working on shortly).
- On the Felice Herrig (MMA fighter design controversy) note, I don't see the issue? It's relating to her design and while it seems like there's been no legal development in that situation, I really don't think that just because it was "ignored" makes it any less relevant for inclusion in the appropriate Design section? Regardless, I added info to the article so that it now includes Herrig stating her camp was looking into legal options and that no action developed from that.
- Way more options exist for this than deleting, so I'm currently looking for other ways to improve the article but I think this is a strong Keep. Thanks for the Game Informer reference. Will be using it to add to this article.
Soulbust (
talk) 21:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- In response to the articles about the selfie fatality and her other fatalities, this quote from WP:GNG will suffice: Not all coverage in reliable sources constitutes evidence of notability for the purposes of article creation; for example, directories and databases, advertisements, announcements columns, and minor news stories are all examples of coverage that may not actually support notability when examined, despite their existence as reliable sources.
- As for the MMA controversy, the lack of any development suggests it was clickbait journalism at best. This is not a
Kadabra situation in which a lawsuit was actually filed and noted on Wikinews.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 22:03, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Seems pessimistic; the lack of any development more probably suggests Herrig's camp opted not to follow through on legal action. Not following through on that obviously wouldn't get news coverage, because it would be making a story out of literally no ocurrence. While I think VG journalism is prone to clickbait, the headlines covering this particular situation don't read as clickbait (1: MMA Star Says Mortal Kombat Likeness "Cannot Be A Coincidence"; 2: Felice Herrig: I think Cassie Cage from "Mortal Kombat" is 100% me, 3:UFC's Felice Herrig Talks About Comparison With Mortal Kombat X's Cassie Cage, 4: Felice Herrig's camp looking into possible legal action against Mortal Kombat developer). They read as pretty good encapsulations of the situation as it happened. Soulbust ( talk) 22:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also nice highlight of "minor news stories", but it seems subjective. It's also confusing thinking. Even if you count all of the sources covering the fatality (of which there is a high amount) as minor, wouldn't the shear amount of them show a support of its notability? And then we're just talking about the fatality itself. The character herself has even greater amounts of coverage. I think the fatality is just one component of her character that was positively received.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:20, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also looks like there is some sort of litmus test being conducted with articles on
Sektor,
Skarlet, and
Cyrax being merged, with
Nightwolf being kept as per no consensus, and
Rain currently pending. I'd probably be remiss to not mention that Cassie probably has an inherent greater notability than those characters as per being the main protagonist of MKX. But, that's irrelevant imo, because the sourcing on this article helps support notability regardless of her function as that game's main protag. Will continue to help improve article over the coming days.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Will continue to edit the article later. I've added reliable, relevant sourcing + context. And in addition, I've also removed any sourcing that's been tagged as unreliable as per the VG WikiProject. Where needed/applicable, I've replaced it with reliable sourcing. What I've noticed is that this article was just severely out-of-date, or at least much more out-of-date than I previously thought. Although her appearance in MK11 was added back in 2019, the relevant design and gameplay changes, as well as reception regarding her MK11 appearance was not added. Again, will continue to make changes to this article later today/this week. Soulbust ( talk) 16:17, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Also looks like there is some sort of litmus test being conducted with articles on
Sektor,
Skarlet, and
Cyrax being merged, with
Nightwolf being kept as per no consensus, and
Rain currently pending. I'd probably be remiss to not mention that Cassie probably has an inherent greater notability than those characters as per being the main protagonist of MKX. But, that's irrelevant imo, because the sourcing on this article helps support notability regardless of her function as that game's main protag. Will continue to help improve article over the coming days.
Soulbust (
talk) 22:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Way more options exist for this than deleting, so I'm currently looking for other ways to improve the article but I think this is a strong Keep. Thanks for the Game Informer reference. Will be using it to add to this article.
Soulbust (
talk) 21:00, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- Merge - Bulk of the content seems to be listicles and cherry-picked trivial mentions. What remains when all the gunk is removed can probably easily fit on the character list until such a time when more substantial sources can be provided. TTN ( talk) 22:36, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Bulk of what content? Listicles are only included in the Reception section, and in pretty obvious situations (i.e. a publication calling Cassie nth best MK character). "Cherry-picked" is also a pretty interesting comment? Where is that coming from? How is any of it cherry-picked? I'm trying to contribute in a way that gives readers a good as possible understanding of the character's design history, gameplay features, etc. (info any other VG character article would include). Very interested, then, to get a better understanding as to what exactly is "cherry-picked trivial mentions." Because just saying that without giving context seems unhelpful here. And over the past day or so I've added more substantial content and sourcing and am still in the process of doing so. Soulbust ( talk) 23:36, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: Per Soulbust's arguments. Nice work on the article, by the way. If I find any good sources, I'll bring them up too. MoonJet ( talk) 01:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Great job by Soulbust improving the article. Satellizer el Bridget (Talk) 03:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Cassie is a terrible character but right now she is a face of the franchise and consequently passes notability at this time. Her tenure in the series is still young and thus leaves the door open for more future critical reception, while in contrast the four recent victims of merging have faded into relative obscurity. I did make a few tweaks and removed a nonviable VG source. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 04:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep Per Soulbust Lightburst ( talk) 00:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.