- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Lord Roem ~ ( talk) 09:09, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Cao Yu (artist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This biography of a Chinese artist, whose primary claim to fame appears to be a single somewhat provocative performative piece, is light on independent reliable sources. The sole source that I would count in this category, artasiapacific.com, has two lines on the subject in a fairly substantial article. BD2412 T 04:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and China. BD2412 T 04:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:ARTIST. It is WP:TOOSOON, poorly sourced, relying on mostly primary sources if sourced at all, and written in promotional tone. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 02:26, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
- Guest, Luise (2020-09-01).
"Show and Tell: Cao Yu's Gendered Embodiment".
Ran Dian. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes: "Minimalist, conceptual, and deliberately provocative, Cao’s work reflects upon and exploits the physicality of her materials, from the conventional – marble, stretched linen and canvas – to unexpected, even transgressive, substances including the artist’s own hair, breastmilk and urine, and their various significations. Cao graduated from the academically rigorous Sculpture Department of Beijing’s Central Academy of Fine Arts and cites Sui Jianguo and Zhan Wang as influential teachers and mentors. ... Cao Yu’s uncompromising chutzpah in confronting the masculinist history of modern and contemporary sculpture and performance art – so much testosterone! – echoes the similarly audacious work of a Chinese performance and transdisciplinary artist of the previous generation."
- Qiu, Yuanting 邱苑婷 (2021-09-06).
"曹雨 艺术的冒犯" [Cao Yu: The Offense of Art].
Southern People Weekly (in Chinese). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "Back in the summer of 2016, when you entered the graduate exhibition of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, you would see the work "Spring" by the artist Cao Yu. Pregnant during college, and turned breastfeeding into a work of art - many people know Cao Yu, it is from "Spring". ... Accompanied by the controversy, Cao Yu became famous almost overnight, and she soon received offers from international galleries after being "born out of nowhere"."
The article further notes from Google Translate: "Five years have passed, and Cao Yu's creation is still continuing with an astonishingly high output. She tattooed a tiger's head on a bull's heart that was still warm and beating, and held it in front of her "androgynous" body to shoot "Things in the Chest"; she sat on an old sink, her androgynous image, in a black suit, The flat chest, masculine momentum, and the "magic touch" in the work - the water spraying out of the rusty faucet all break the established gender gaze, blur the boundaries between fashion and art, and the audience is caught by the sharp eyes What you are staring at, this is "Dragon Head"."
- Shu, Yuan 舒元 (2021-06-07).
"曹雨的"路过人间"是首铿锵而热烈的歌" [Cao Yu's "Passing Through the World" is a sonorous and enthusiastic song]. Hi艺术 [Hi Art] (in Chinese). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "Cao Yu always hits the pain points in the society with a single blow. She pokes them, penetrates human nature, and always forms a strong public opinion. She never presents poetry and freshness in front of you, the kind of violence, fierceness, and rebellion are the main themes. Entering the exhibition hall, you will be enveloped by Cao Yu’s provocation and accuracy."
- Wang, Sue (2019-04-17).
"Galerie Urs Meile presents "Cao Yu: Femme Fatale" in Lucerne".
Central Academy of Fine Arts. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes: "Cao Yu continues to expand her oeuvre by presenting a new series of photographic works entitled Femme Fatale, which gave its title to the exhibition and is the artist's first attempt at photography. The experimental nature of Cao's exhibitions stems from I Have an Hourglass Waist - the artist's first solo exhibition at the gallery's Beijing outpost. From video to sculpture, installation to work on canvas, and now photography, her multidisciplinary practice is crucial in challenging the perception of her surroundings, experiences and her role as an artist. Cao’s interpretation is jarring and contemplative for both a new and familiar audience."
- Buhr, Elke (2022-09-27).
"Künstlerin Cao Yu über Feminismus: "Vergesst Gender!"" [Artist Cao Yu on Feminism: "Forget Gender!"].
Monopol (in German). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "There is also Cao Yu, born in 1988. The artist from Beijing has received numerous awards in China, and she has just been listed as China's most influential contemporary artist in a WeChat index. Cao Yu works with installation, video, photography and performance and is always good for an unusual action. At her first exhibition at the Urs Meile gallery in Beijing, she blocked a passageway with an installation of black bras that people had to step on to get in."
- Guest, Luise (2020-09-01).
"Show and Tell: Cao Yu's Gendered Embodiment".
Ran Dian. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Visual arts and Photography. Netherzone ( talk) 16:58, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - I am strongly leaning towards k**p based on the excellent research by Cunard (well done amazing work!), and will !vote shortly after continuing a deep BEFORE. I was able to add a citation for the M+ Museum collection, Hong Kong; [1] she has several works in that collection, which brings the article closer to establishment of notability. Netherzone ( talk) 18:51, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I have gone through each of the sources that Cunard presented (and copied that info to the article talk page for future improvements), these sources are
significant coverage of her work, and it thus fulfills
WP:GNG. I could not verify any of the other collections other than
M+, so she does not seem to meet
WP:NARTIST at this time. Having said that, there are some serious problems with the article: the current sourcing is very weak (too many primary sources, an unpublished manuscript, and her own website, and a source that does not mention her at all); and there is an overall promotional tone, for example,
With her distinctive interdisciplinary practice，sharp and bold artistic language, she is recognized as the leading figure of Chinese new generation female artists, one of the most influential young artists in China.[citation needed]
. And perhaps too much emphasis on her graduate show piece Fountain. It has been heavily edited by single purpose accounts and a blocked sock, so those edits need scrutiny. I suggest pruning it back to a short article that only includes content that is appropriately sourced. Netherzone ( talk) 20:54, 2 March 2023 (UTC) - Comment I am keeping my vote as is. I have read through the sources, and it all reads like promotional pseudo-feminism. Each article seems to be illustrated with flattering photographs of the subject and art, all credited to the artist's gallery. I realize that artist's agents often provided photos for reliable sources, but I still think this is
WP:TOOSOON. I cannot find a reliable source for her stated year of birth.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
17:39, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- I totally get what you are saying, and too feel some skepticism due to the promotional tone, but also the SPAs and blocked sock. I was debating between "Weak K" and "K". I deeply trust your analyses of visual arts articles @ WomenArtistUpdates, so I will have another look at the sources. I agree that it could be cleverly written paid content or native advertising. I almost pruned it back to a stub during this debate, but some editors (not anyone here) get bent out of shape when that happens so I did not trim it. Perhaps I should go ahead and prune the fluff? Netherzone ( talk) 22:29, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- I cleaned up the sensationalism and puffery and improved the overall tone, got rid of (or tagged) some obvious paid content, and trimmed it down to a very short article, and incorporated the best two sources found by Cunard. Netherzone ( talk) 01:14, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
-
Netherzone, I was going to comment that you should go ahead and take the trimmer to this, but see you have. It reads so much better now. More like an encyclopedic article. Can you figure out what is going on with the publication section? I thin she just has the one book "
I have an hourglass waist" published by her gallery Galerie Urs Meile. Are those stray bullet points making it look like 4 pubs?
Done one publication
-
Netherzone, I was going to comment that you should go ahead and take the trimmer to this, but see you have. It reads so much better now. More like an encyclopedic article. Can you figure out what is going on with the publication section? I thin she just has the one book "
I have an hourglass waist" published by her gallery Galerie Urs Meile. Are those stray bullet points making it look like 4 pubs?
- Oh gosh, I am now looking at
Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne which seems to have been lurking around for a decade.
- I was just going to trim the pub section, but you already got to that, thanks! The gallery page should probably be AfD'd, not finding anything per
WP:NCORP or GNG about the gallery.
Netherzone (
talk)
- Yep. Just nominated it. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 02:04, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- I was just going to trim the pub section, but you already got to that, thanks! The gallery page should probably be AfD'd, not finding anything per
WP:NCORP or GNG about the gallery.
Netherzone (
talk)
- Oh gosh, I am now looking at
Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne which seems to have been lurking around for a decade.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep In addition to the sources found by User:Cunard above. Taung Tan ( talk) 18:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Lord Roem ~ ( talk) 09:09, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Cao Yu (artist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This biography of a Chinese artist, whose primary claim to fame appears to be a single somewhat provocative performative piece, is light on independent reliable sources. The sole source that I would count in this category, artasiapacific.com, has two lines on the subject in a fairly substantial article. BD2412 T 04:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Artists and China. BD2412 T 04:50, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:ARTIST. It is WP:TOOSOON, poorly sourced, relying on mostly primary sources if sourced at all, and written in promotional tone. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 02:26, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent
reliable sources.
- Guest, Luise (2020-09-01).
"Show and Tell: Cao Yu's Gendered Embodiment".
Ran Dian. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes: "Minimalist, conceptual, and deliberately provocative, Cao’s work reflects upon and exploits the physicality of her materials, from the conventional – marble, stretched linen and canvas – to unexpected, even transgressive, substances including the artist’s own hair, breastmilk and urine, and their various significations. Cao graduated from the academically rigorous Sculpture Department of Beijing’s Central Academy of Fine Arts and cites Sui Jianguo and Zhan Wang as influential teachers and mentors. ... Cao Yu’s uncompromising chutzpah in confronting the masculinist history of modern and contemporary sculpture and performance art – so much testosterone! – echoes the similarly audacious work of a Chinese performance and transdisciplinary artist of the previous generation."
- Qiu, Yuanting 邱苑婷 (2021-09-06).
"曹雨 艺术的冒犯" [Cao Yu: The Offense of Art].
Southern People Weekly (in Chinese). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "Back in the summer of 2016, when you entered the graduate exhibition of the Central Academy of Fine Arts, you would see the work "Spring" by the artist Cao Yu. Pregnant during college, and turned breastfeeding into a work of art - many people know Cao Yu, it is from "Spring". ... Accompanied by the controversy, Cao Yu became famous almost overnight, and she soon received offers from international galleries after being "born out of nowhere"."
The article further notes from Google Translate: "Five years have passed, and Cao Yu's creation is still continuing with an astonishingly high output. She tattooed a tiger's head on a bull's heart that was still warm and beating, and held it in front of her "androgynous" body to shoot "Things in the Chest"; she sat on an old sink, her androgynous image, in a black suit, The flat chest, masculine momentum, and the "magic touch" in the work - the water spraying out of the rusty faucet all break the established gender gaze, blur the boundaries between fashion and art, and the audience is caught by the sharp eyes What you are staring at, this is "Dragon Head"."
- Shu, Yuan 舒元 (2021-06-07).
"曹雨的"路过人间"是首铿锵而热烈的歌" [Cao Yu's "Passing Through the World" is a sonorous and enthusiastic song]. Hi艺术 [Hi Art] (in Chinese). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "Cao Yu always hits the pain points in the society with a single blow. She pokes them, penetrates human nature, and always forms a strong public opinion. She never presents poetry and freshness in front of you, the kind of violence, fierceness, and rebellion are the main themes. Entering the exhibition hall, you will be enveloped by Cao Yu’s provocation and accuracy."
- Wang, Sue (2019-04-17).
"Galerie Urs Meile presents "Cao Yu: Femme Fatale" in Lucerne".
Central Academy of Fine Arts. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes: "Cao Yu continues to expand her oeuvre by presenting a new series of photographic works entitled Femme Fatale, which gave its title to the exhibition and is the artist's first attempt at photography. The experimental nature of Cao's exhibitions stems from I Have an Hourglass Waist - the artist's first solo exhibition at the gallery's Beijing outpost. From video to sculpture, installation to work on canvas, and now photography, her multidisciplinary practice is crucial in challenging the perception of her surroundings, experiences and her role as an artist. Cao’s interpretation is jarring and contemplative for both a new and familiar audience."
- Buhr, Elke (2022-09-27).
"Künstlerin Cao Yu über Feminismus: "Vergesst Gender!"" [Artist Cao Yu on Feminism: "Forget Gender!"].
Monopol (in German). Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
The article notes from Google Translate: "There is also Cao Yu, born in 1988. The artist from Beijing has received numerous awards in China, and she has just been listed as China's most influential contemporary artist in a WeChat index. Cao Yu works with installation, video, photography and performance and is always good for an unusual action. At her first exhibition at the Urs Meile gallery in Beijing, she blocked a passageway with an installation of black bras that people had to step on to get in."
- Guest, Luise (2020-09-01).
"Show and Tell: Cao Yu's Gendered Embodiment".
Ran Dian. Archived from
the original on 2023-02-28. Retrieved 2023-02-28.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Visual arts and Photography. Netherzone ( talk) 16:58, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
- Comment - I am strongly leaning towards k**p based on the excellent research by Cunard (well done amazing work!), and will !vote shortly after continuing a deep BEFORE. I was able to add a citation for the M+ Museum collection, Hong Kong; [1] she has several works in that collection, which brings the article closer to establishment of notability. Netherzone ( talk) 18:51, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I have gone through each of the sources that Cunard presented (and copied that info to the article talk page for future improvements), these sources are
significant coverage of her work, and it thus fulfills
WP:GNG. I could not verify any of the other collections other than
M+, so she does not seem to meet
WP:NARTIST at this time. Having said that, there are some serious problems with the article: the current sourcing is very weak (too many primary sources, an unpublished manuscript, and her own website, and a source that does not mention her at all); and there is an overall promotional tone, for example,
With her distinctive interdisciplinary practice，sharp and bold artistic language, she is recognized as the leading figure of Chinese new generation female artists, one of the most influential young artists in China.[citation needed]
. And perhaps too much emphasis on her graduate show piece Fountain. It has been heavily edited by single purpose accounts and a blocked sock, so those edits need scrutiny. I suggest pruning it back to a short article that only includes content that is appropriately sourced. Netherzone ( talk) 20:54, 2 March 2023 (UTC) - Comment I am keeping my vote as is. I have read through the sources, and it all reads like promotional pseudo-feminism. Each article seems to be illustrated with flattering photographs of the subject and art, all credited to the artist's gallery. I realize that artist's agents often provided photos for reliable sources, but I still think this is
WP:TOOSOON. I cannot find a reliable source for her stated year of birth.
WomenArtistUpdates (
talk)
17:39, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- I totally get what you are saying, and too feel some skepticism due to the promotional tone, but also the SPAs and blocked sock. I was debating between "Weak K" and "K". I deeply trust your analyses of visual arts articles @ WomenArtistUpdates, so I will have another look at the sources. I agree that it could be cleverly written paid content or native advertising. I almost pruned it back to a stub during this debate, but some editors (not anyone here) get bent out of shape when that happens so I did not trim it. Perhaps I should go ahead and prune the fluff? Netherzone ( talk) 22:29, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
- I cleaned up the sensationalism and puffery and improved the overall tone, got rid of (or tagged) some obvious paid content, and trimmed it down to a very short article, and incorporated the best two sources found by Cunard. Netherzone ( talk) 01:14, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
-
Netherzone, I was going to comment that you should go ahead and take the trimmer to this, but see you have. It reads so much better now. More like an encyclopedic article. Can you figure out what is going on with the publication section? I thin she just has the one book "
I have an hourglass waist" published by her gallery Galerie Urs Meile. Are those stray bullet points making it look like 4 pubs? Done one publication
-
Netherzone, I was going to comment that you should go ahead and take the trimmer to this, but see you have. It reads so much better now. More like an encyclopedic article. Can you figure out what is going on with the publication section? I thin she just has the one book "
I have an hourglass waist" published by her gallery Galerie Urs Meile. Are those stray bullet points making it look like 4 pubs?
- Oh gosh, I am now looking at
Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne which seems to have been lurking around for a decade.
- I was just going to trim the pub section, but you already got to that, thanks! The gallery page should probably be AfD'd, not finding anything per
WP:NCORP or GNG about the gallery.
Netherzone (
talk)
- Yep. Just nominated it. WomenArtistUpdates ( talk) 02:04, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
- I was just going to trim the pub section, but you already got to that, thanks! The gallery page should probably be AfD'd, not finding anything per
WP:NCORP or GNG about the gallery.
Netherzone (
talk)
- Oh gosh, I am now looking at
Galerie Urs Meile, Beijing-Lucerne which seems to have been lurking around for a decade.
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
- Keep In addition to the sources found by User:Cunard above. Taung Tan ( talk) 18:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.