Cansolabao, Samar
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- Cansolabao, Samar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not have any notability and has no sources. TheNuggeteer ( talk) 08:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. TheNuggeteer ( talk) 08:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep:
Meets WP:GEOLAND as a legally recognized barangays.Also, coverage found in books. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 19:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)- @
Cocobb8 barangays are not cities/towns of the Philippines. They are just administrative divisions. See the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive47#Are barangays notable? (can we please have a consensus now?). Only those that jave backing reliable, independent, secondary sources that are not mere statistic listings or listings of schools/establishments/tourist sites, like
Forbes Park, Makati, are qualified to have standalone articles.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
JWilz12345, I know that it is an administrative division, which is why I am saying that it meets
WP:GEOLAND per
[p]opulated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable
. I am using the guideline as a justification for my !vote, and the discussion you linked to was not officially closed, nor was it an official RfC in any way, so at this point WP:GEOLAND is the guideline to follow for this article. Yes, it lacks coverage, but it is presumed notable per GEOLAND. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)- @
Cocobb8 so, in your opinion, is
Barangay 51, Caloocan (
list of Caloocan's barangays) notable too? It is a legal administrative division, with a chief local executive (a "barangay captain or chairman") and a set of elected councilors ("barangay kagawad"). The country has more than 40,000
barangays or administrative wards of the country's 1,634 incorporated places. Hard to maintain all 40K+ articles as per some concerns raised by Filipino Wikipedians in debates concerning articles of barangays of the Philippines.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
15:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ JWilz12345 I did not realize it was 40,000 barangays. Thanks for pointing it out. But, I would still keep this article per the coverage I found in books. Cheers, Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 16:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
Cocobb8 so, in your opinion, is
Barangay 51, Caloocan (
list of Caloocan's barangays) notable too? It is a legal administrative division, with a chief local executive (a "barangay captain or chairman") and a set of elected councilors ("barangay kagawad"). The country has more than 40,000
barangays or administrative wards of the country's 1,634 incorporated places. Hard to maintain all 40K+ articles as per some concerns raised by Filipino Wikipedians in debates concerning articles of barangays of the Philippines.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
15:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Clarification: Barangays are not just "administrative" divisions like regions, but are full fledged political units like towns, cities and provinces.
WP:GEOLAND has a funky definition of a "settlement". Barangay 666 in
Manila is not a
WP:GEOLAND settlement, as it along with 800 barangays of Manila, and perhaps 90% of the barangays in
Mega Manila, are one contiguous urban sprawl. Standalone barangays in the hinterlands are
WP:GEOLAND settlements if the built up area is not contiguous with the primary settlement in the town center. The question is if
WP:GEOLAND is good enough if we can't write an article because there's no
WP:SIGCOV from an
WP:RS.
Howard the Duck (
talk)
07:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ Howard the Duck maybe because the Philippine LGU system when it comes to municipal level is not intended as it was originally used to be. The article for the Philippine towns speaks of a former type of "town" called "municipal districts" that were mostly found in far-flung or remote areas. They were unincorporated (similar to U.S. census designated places) and were managed by tribal chieftains. It was after World War II that these unincorporated regions/districts within the provinces began to be converted to regular towns or municipalities, even those that do not comprise a single settlement but multiple barangay settlements that may not be contiguous to each other. The last of the conversions to regular municipalities were in the 1980s.
- I would like to see a country whose smallest administrative divisions/units are covered by enwiki. I think that would be India (e.g.
Delhi Cantonment and
Haqiqat Nagar ➡️
List of neighbourhoods of Delhi). @
Cocobb8:, can you give specific examples of countries whose 90-100% of smallest administrative divisions (divisions of cities/towns) are covered by enwiki?
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
14:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ JWilz12345, it's not about whether that is the case for other small administrative divisions. That is a larger-scale discussion, and that is not the purpose of this AfD. As I said before, I would still keep this as per the sources I found. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 17:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
Howard the Duck Just a question where does GEOLAND talk about urban sprawl and subdvisions/subadminsitrative units of a greater one? Ping me in the reply too please.
Traumnovelle (
talk)
05:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- There was a previous barangay AFD like this one, and Barangay 666 in Manila is not a "settlement" for GEOLAND purposes but villages that are built up separately are. I don't have a computer with me and I won't be bothered to look it up on mobile. Howard the Duck ( talk) 09:01, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ Traumnovelle: In Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tarusan, User:Eostrix discusses this. Granted it was apparently his personal interpretation.
- As for this barangay, this is quite some distance away from the main
Hinabangan town center, about 36 kilometers away.
Howard the Duck (
talk)
15:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- ...that AfD completely mis-applies WP:GEOLAND... SportingFlyer T· C 17:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
JWilz12345, I know that it is an administrative division, which is why I am saying that it meets
WP:GEOLAND per
- @
Cocobb8 barangays are not cities/towns of the Philippines. They are just administrative divisions. See the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive47#Are barangays notable? (can we please have a consensus now?). Only those that jave backing reliable, independent, secondary sources that are not mere statistic listings or listings of schools/establishments/tourist sites, like
Forbes Park, Makati, are qualified to have standalone articles.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Hinabangan#Barangays as per WP:ATD -- Lenticel ( talk) 00:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Cansolabao is also a village. The article should be reworked and sources added, but a village with 1,200 people would be notable in a country where the administrative boundaries aren't in wiki-dispute.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
15:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
SportingFlyer the current de facto consensus among Filipino Wikipedians is that the administrative wards or
barangays should be treated per case-to-case basis. Those like
Forbes Park, Makati can stand alone, but majority (90% perhaps) do not. Unless a higher consensus through
WP:GEOLAND forums overrides the de facto consensus of the Filipino Wikipedians.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:GEOLAND is policy which would over-ride local consensus, which would not preclude this topic anyways. SportingFlyer T· C 13:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:GEOLAND is a
subject-specific notability guideline, and overrides local consensus.
WP:GNG is the general notability guideline overrides any
WP:SNG.
WP:GNG overrides
WP:GEOLAND. The argument here is does this place have
WP:SIGCOV anywhere?
Howard the Duck (
talk)
12:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:GNG does not actually override WP:GEOLAND - WP:GEOLAND is one of the rare exceptions and simply requires verification that this is a populated place. SportingFlyer T· C 05:54, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
SportingFlyer the current de facto consensus among Filipino Wikipedians is that the administrative wards or
barangays should be treated per case-to-case basis. Those like
Forbes Park, Makati can stand alone, but majority (90% perhaps) do not. Unless a higher consensus through
WP:GEOLAND forums overrides the de facto consensus of the Filipino Wikipedians.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 15:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Hinabangan#Barangays. HueMan1 ( talk) 14:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 17:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 18:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Cansolabao, Samar
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Cansolabao, Samar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Does not have any notability and has no sources. TheNuggeteer ( talk) 08:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. TheNuggeteer ( talk) 08:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep:
Meets WP:GEOLAND as a legally recognized barangays.Also, coverage found in books. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 19:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)- @
Cocobb8 barangays are not cities/towns of the Philippines. They are just administrative divisions. See the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive47#Are barangays notable? (can we please have a consensus now?). Only those that jave backing reliable, independent, secondary sources that are not mere statistic listings or listings of schools/establishments/tourist sites, like
Forbes Park, Makati, are qualified to have standalone articles.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
JWilz12345, I know that it is an administrative division, which is why I am saying that it meets
WP:GEOLAND per
[p]opulated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable
. I am using the guideline as a justification for my !vote, and the discussion you linked to was not officially closed, nor was it an official RfC in any way, so at this point WP:GEOLAND is the guideline to follow for this article. Yes, it lacks coverage, but it is presumed notable per GEOLAND. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)- @
Cocobb8 so, in your opinion, is
Barangay 51, Caloocan (
list of Caloocan's barangays) notable too? It is a legal administrative division, with a chief local executive (a "barangay captain or chairman") and a set of elected councilors ("barangay kagawad"). The country has more than 40,000
barangays or administrative wards of the country's 1,634 incorporated places. Hard to maintain all 40K+ articles as per some concerns raised by Filipino Wikipedians in debates concerning articles of barangays of the Philippines.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
15:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ JWilz12345 I did not realize it was 40,000 barangays. Thanks for pointing it out. But, I would still keep this article per the coverage I found in books. Cheers, Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 16:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
Cocobb8 so, in your opinion, is
Barangay 51, Caloocan (
list of Caloocan's barangays) notable too? It is a legal administrative division, with a chief local executive (a "barangay captain or chairman") and a set of elected councilors ("barangay kagawad"). The country has more than 40,000
barangays or administrative wards of the country's 1,634 incorporated places. Hard to maintain all 40K+ articles as per some concerns raised by Filipino Wikipedians in debates concerning articles of barangays of the Philippines.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
15:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Clarification: Barangays are not just "administrative" divisions like regions, but are full fledged political units like towns, cities and provinces.
WP:GEOLAND has a funky definition of a "settlement". Barangay 666 in
Manila is not a
WP:GEOLAND settlement, as it along with 800 barangays of Manila, and perhaps 90% of the barangays in
Mega Manila, are one contiguous urban sprawl. Standalone barangays in the hinterlands are
WP:GEOLAND settlements if the built up area is not contiguous with the primary settlement in the town center. The question is if
WP:GEOLAND is good enough if we can't write an article because there's no
WP:SIGCOV from an
WP:RS.
Howard the Duck (
talk)
07:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ Howard the Duck maybe because the Philippine LGU system when it comes to municipal level is not intended as it was originally used to be. The article for the Philippine towns speaks of a former type of "town" called "municipal districts" that were mostly found in far-flung or remote areas. They were unincorporated (similar to U.S. census designated places) and were managed by tribal chieftains. It was after World War II that these unincorporated regions/districts within the provinces began to be converted to regular towns or municipalities, even those that do not comprise a single settlement but multiple barangay settlements that may not be contiguous to each other. The last of the conversions to regular municipalities were in the 1980s.
- I would like to see a country whose smallest administrative divisions/units are covered by enwiki. I think that would be India (e.g.
Delhi Cantonment and
Haqiqat Nagar ➡️
List of neighbourhoods of Delhi). @
Cocobb8:, can you give specific examples of countries whose 90-100% of smallest administrative divisions (divisions of cities/towns) are covered by enwiki?
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
14:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ JWilz12345, it's not about whether that is the case for other small administrative divisions. That is a larger-scale discussion, and that is not the purpose of this AfD. As I said before, I would still keep this as per the sources I found. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 17:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
Howard the Duck Just a question where does GEOLAND talk about urban sprawl and subdvisions/subadminsitrative units of a greater one? Ping me in the reply too please.
Traumnovelle (
talk)
05:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- There was a previous barangay AFD like this one, and Barangay 666 in Manila is not a "settlement" for GEOLAND purposes but villages that are built up separately are. I don't have a computer with me and I won't be bothered to look it up on mobile. Howard the Duck ( talk) 09:01, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- @ Traumnovelle: In Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tarusan, User:Eostrix discusses this. Granted it was apparently his personal interpretation.
- As for this barangay, this is quite some distance away from the main
Hinabangan town center, about 36 kilometers away.
Howard the Duck (
talk)
15:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- ...that AfD completely mis-applies WP:GEOLAND... SportingFlyer T· C 17:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
JWilz12345, I know that it is an administrative division, which is why I am saying that it meets
WP:GEOLAND per
- @
Cocobb8 barangays are not cities/towns of the Philippines. They are just administrative divisions. See the discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines/Archive47#Are barangays notable? (can we please have a consensus now?). Only those that jave backing reliable, independent, secondary sources that are not mere statistic listings or listings of schools/establishments/tourist sites, like
Forbes Park, Makati, are qualified to have standalone articles.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Hinabangan#Barangays as per WP:ATD -- Lenticel ( talk) 00:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Cansolabao is also a village. The article should be reworked and sources added, but a village with 1,200 people would be notable in a country where the administrative boundaries aren't in wiki-dispute.
SportingFlyer
T·
C
15:54, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
- @
SportingFlyer the current de facto consensus among Filipino Wikipedians is that the administrative wards or
barangays should be treated per case-to-case basis. Those like
Forbes Park, Makati can stand alone, but majority (90% perhaps) do not. Unless a higher consensus through
WP:GEOLAND forums overrides the de facto consensus of the Filipino Wikipedians.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:GEOLAND is policy which would over-ride local consensus, which would not preclude this topic anyways. SportingFlyer T· C 13:15, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:GEOLAND is a
subject-specific notability guideline, and overrides local consensus.
WP:GNG is the general notability guideline overrides any
WP:SNG.
WP:GNG overrides
WP:GEOLAND. The argument here is does this place have
WP:SIGCOV anywhere?
Howard the Duck (
talk)
12:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- WP:GNG does not actually override WP:GEOLAND - WP:GEOLAND is one of the rare exceptions and simply requires verification that this is a populated place. SportingFlyer T· C 05:54, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- @
SportingFlyer the current de facto consensus among Filipino Wikipedians is that the administrative wards or
barangays should be treated per case-to-case basis. Those like
Forbes Park, Makati can stand alone, but majority (90% perhaps) do not. Unless a higher consensus through
WP:GEOLAND forums overrides the de facto consensus of the Filipino Wikipedians.
JWilz12345 (
Talk|
Contrib's.)
08:38, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America 1000 15:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Hinabangan#Barangays. HueMan1 ( talk) 14:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 17:49, 6 July 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) ( talk) 18:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)