- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was nomination withdrawn. Apparently it is I who am mistaken. Some editors might question the notability of individual townlands in Northern Ireland, which are plots of land often smaller than individual farms, but I see no need.— S Marshall T/ C 11:03, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Beagh (Spiritual) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The person who wrote this article seems to have been under the impression that Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal) are separate places. On this point they were entirely mistaken. I suspect they may have been confused because Beagh seems to be in one parish for local government purposes and in another parish for church administration purposes. I think someone has made a note to this effect in the article's (only) source which, I suspect, the article creator has taken too literally. In any case, Beagh is one place, and it's a townland—a subdivision of a civil parish. I leave it to the community to decide whether it meets WP:GEOLAND. — S Marshall T/ C 14:29, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. — S Marshall T/ C 14:29, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:39, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Rather you are entirely mistaken. Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal) are two seperate townlands that simply have names that have the same origin, in this case the Irish An Beitheach, meaning "place abounding in birch trees". They are also in seperate neighbouring civil and Church of Ireland parishes (Maghera and Killelagh) with quite a few townlands in between them both, though originally most of Killelagh along with the townland of Beagh (Temporal) was part of Maghera, hence the need to distinguish the two. In this case Spiritual refers to the Beagh that is church land [not part of the erenagh land however as far as can be told] of Maghera parish, Temporal refers to the Beagh that was civil land.
- All Irish townlands have sub-divisions, each with their own name and in some cases these names were used interchangably with the name they were commonly known as. Some became the name of sub-divisions of townlands that became detached for various reasons. In the case of Beagh (Spiritual) this appears to have been the case for it first appears in any form in the Civil Survey of 1654 and associated with the likewise then apparently new adjacent townland of Tamnymartin, whereby Beagh (Temporal)'s earliest record goes back to 1609 and was originally known in forms similar to Ballynabeagh and only was shortened to Beagh by 1663.
- By your logic Cloughfin in Kilcronaghan civil parish and Cloughfin in the neighbouring Ballynascreen civil parish are also the same? Or for two townlands that are directly beside each other in two different parishes what about Ballynahone Beg in Maghera parish and Ballynahone More in Termoneeny parish?
-
This map shows the clear distance between the two Beagh's, and illustrates my point on the two adjacent yet seperate Ballynahone's. Indeed, PlaceNames NI
gives pretty much the same overview as myself.
Mabuska
(talk)
16:39, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- If the aforementioned map and the link to the academic Queens University PlaceNames NI project aren't enough:
- From Townlands.ie:
- Beagh (Spiritual), electoral division of Maghera, civil parish of Maghera, borders the townlands of Carricknakielt to the east; Curragh to the north; Knocknakielt to the west; Slaghtybogy to the east; Tamnymartin to the north
- Beagh (Temporal), electoral division of Swatragh, civil parish of Killelagh, borders the townlands of Culnagrew to the north; Granaghan to the west; Keady to the east; Macknagh to the south; Moneysharvan to the south; Swatragh to the north; Upperland to the south
- From the official Irish government department on townlands:
- At the Public Records Office of Northern Ireland you can search the Valuation books from the latter 19th-century, which clearly has Beagh (Temporal) and Beagh (Spiritual) as seperate townlands. Select County Londonderry and then parish of Maghera as well as Killelagh and go to the index page where the townlands are listed.
- 1901 census: Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal), note both in seperate District Electoral Divisions [Swatragh and Maghera].
- Same for 1911 census: Beagh (Temporal) and Beagh (Spiritual)
- Public Records Office of Northern Ireland parish townland lists: Maghera parish and Killelagh parish (downloadable PDF)
- Clearly not the same townland. Case close as far as I am concerned. Mabuska (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was nomination withdrawn. Apparently it is I who am mistaken. Some editors might question the notability of individual townlands in Northern Ireland, which are plots of land often smaller than individual farms, but I see no need.— S Marshall T/ C 11:03, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Beagh (Spiritual) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The person who wrote this article seems to have been under the impression that Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal) are separate places. On this point they were entirely mistaken. I suspect they may have been confused because Beagh seems to be in one parish for local government purposes and in another parish for church administration purposes. I think someone has made a note to this effect in the article's (only) source which, I suspect, the article creator has taken too literally. In any case, Beagh is one place, and it's a townland—a subdivision of a civil parish. I leave it to the community to decide whether it meets WP:GEOLAND. — S Marshall T/ C 14:29, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. — S Marshall T/ C 14:29, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 14:39, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Rather you are entirely mistaken. Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal) are two seperate townlands that simply have names that have the same origin, in this case the Irish An Beitheach, meaning "place abounding in birch trees". They are also in seperate neighbouring civil and Church of Ireland parishes (Maghera and Killelagh) with quite a few townlands in between them both, though originally most of Killelagh along with the townland of Beagh (Temporal) was part of Maghera, hence the need to distinguish the two. In this case Spiritual refers to the Beagh that is church land [not part of the erenagh land however as far as can be told] of Maghera parish, Temporal refers to the Beagh that was civil land.
- All Irish townlands have sub-divisions, each with their own name and in some cases these names were used interchangably with the name they were commonly known as. Some became the name of sub-divisions of townlands that became detached for various reasons. In the case of Beagh (Spiritual) this appears to have been the case for it first appears in any form in the Civil Survey of 1654 and associated with the likewise then apparently new adjacent townland of Tamnymartin, whereby Beagh (Temporal)'s earliest record goes back to 1609 and was originally known in forms similar to Ballynabeagh and only was shortened to Beagh by 1663.
- By your logic Cloughfin in Kilcronaghan civil parish and Cloughfin in the neighbouring Ballynascreen civil parish are also the same? Or for two townlands that are directly beside each other in two different parishes what about Ballynahone Beg in Maghera parish and Ballynahone More in Termoneeny parish?
-
This map shows the clear distance between the two Beagh's, and illustrates my point on the two adjacent yet seperate Ballynahone's. Indeed, PlaceNames NI
gives pretty much the same overview as myself.
Mabuska
(talk)
16:39, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- If the aforementioned map and the link to the academic Queens University PlaceNames NI project aren't enough:
- From Townlands.ie:
- Beagh (Spiritual), electoral division of Maghera, civil parish of Maghera, borders the townlands of Carricknakielt to the east; Curragh to the north; Knocknakielt to the west; Slaghtybogy to the east; Tamnymartin to the north
- Beagh (Temporal), electoral division of Swatragh, civil parish of Killelagh, borders the townlands of Culnagrew to the north; Granaghan to the west; Keady to the east; Macknagh to the south; Moneysharvan to the south; Swatragh to the north; Upperland to the south
- From the official Irish government department on townlands:
- At the Public Records Office of Northern Ireland you can search the Valuation books from the latter 19th-century, which clearly has Beagh (Temporal) and Beagh (Spiritual) as seperate townlands. Select County Londonderry and then parish of Maghera as well as Killelagh and go to the index page where the townlands are listed.
- 1901 census: Beagh (Spiritual) and Beagh (Temporal), note both in seperate District Electoral Divisions [Swatragh and Maghera].
- Same for 1911 census: Beagh (Temporal) and Beagh (Spiritual)
- Public Records Office of Northern Ireland parish townland lists: Maghera parish and Killelagh parish (downloadable PDF)
- Clearly not the same townland. Case close as far as I am concerned. Mabuska (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.