- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:39, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Battle of Dolni Debar
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The article is highly inaccurate and badly referenced. Also, the title is misleading. Nothing in the article describes any actual battle. The leader of the perpetrator side is mentioned as Moises the Great, actually referring to Moisi Golemi of Dibra, an Albanian leader. The article is purely a propagandistic and nationalist one. The intentional avoidance of the Albanians and Bulgarians whilst pushing the modern Macedonians term is a probable cause of a new mini Balkan war between wikipedians. The author seems to be highly unfamiliar with new article policies and best practices - Mondiad ( talk) 21:09, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions. - Mondiad ( talk) 21:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Question Is this a POVFORK of
Battle of Torvioll? (details seem a bit off in terms of date, but similar otherwise). If so, a redirect might be worthwhile.
Icewhiz (
talk)
12:53, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Bits of our text (possibly a copyvio) seem to be coming from these (possible non-RS) sources:
[1]
[2] (including "Moses the great"). I'll note that since those texts (and our article) mention this as one of two battles near Debar in two years (one in 1446 -
Battle of Otonetë) - I really suspect this is a recasting of
Battle of Torvioll in 1444.
Icewhiz (
talk)
13:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - TNT + POVFORK of Battle of Torvioll. Icewhiz ( talk) 22:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Bits of our text (possibly a copyvio) seem to be coming from these (possible non-RS) sources:
[1]
[2] (including "Moses the great"). I'll note that since those texts (and our article) mention this as one of two battles near Debar in two years (one in 1446 -
Battle of Otonetë) - I really suspect this is a recasting of
Battle of Torvioll in 1444.
Icewhiz (
talk)
13:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- WP:TNT. "Because of the victories around the town of Debar [April 29, 1444], Scanderbeg decided to renounce his allegiance to the Sultan and began to raise a rebellion." In fact, Skanderbeg (who defined himself as Albanian) deserted the Ottomans in November 1443. The Battle of Dolni Debar was a consequence of Skanderbeg's rebellion, not a cause of it. Modern Macedonian nationalism, hopelessly WP:POV. Narky Blert ( talk) 12:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete As mentioned by Icewhiz this seems to be POVFORK of Battle of Torvioll also known as Battle of Lower Dibra. Bes-ART Talk 20:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 09:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:39, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Battle of Dolni Debar
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Battle of Dolni Debar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article is highly inaccurate and badly referenced. Also, the title is misleading. Nothing in the article describes any actual battle. The leader of the perpetrator side is mentioned as Moises the Great, actually referring to Moisi Golemi of Dibra, an Albanian leader. The article is purely a propagandistic and nationalist one. The intentional avoidance of the Albanians and Bulgarians whilst pushing the modern Macedonians term is a probable cause of a new mini Balkan war between wikipedians. The author seems to be highly unfamiliar with new article policies and best practices - Mondiad ( talk) 21:09, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albania-related deletion discussions. - Mondiad ( talk) 21:13, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 12:37, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Question Is this a POVFORK of
Battle of Torvioll? (details seem a bit off in terms of date, but similar otherwise). If so, a redirect might be worthwhile.
Icewhiz (
talk)
12:53, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Bits of our text (possibly a copyvio) seem to be coming from these (possible non-RS) sources:
[1]
[2] (including "Moses the great"). I'll note that since those texts (and our article) mention this as one of two battles near Debar in two years (one in 1446 -
Battle of Otonetë) - I really suspect this is a recasting of
Battle of Torvioll in 1444.
Icewhiz (
talk)
13:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete - TNT + POVFORK of Battle of Torvioll. Icewhiz ( talk) 22:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Bits of our text (possibly a copyvio) seem to be coming from these (possible non-RS) sources:
[1]
[2] (including "Moses the great"). I'll note that since those texts (and our article) mention this as one of two battles near Debar in two years (one in 1446 -
Battle of Otonetë) - I really suspect this is a recasting of
Battle of Torvioll in 1444.
Icewhiz (
talk)
13:01, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- WP:TNT. "Because of the victories around the town of Debar [April 29, 1444], Scanderbeg decided to renounce his allegiance to the Sultan and began to raise a rebellion." In fact, Skanderbeg (who defined himself as Albanian) deserted the Ottomans in November 1443. The Battle of Dolni Debar was a consequence of Skanderbeg's rebellion, not a cause of it. Modern Macedonian nationalism, hopelessly WP:POV. Narky Blert ( talk) 12:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Delete As mentioned by Icewhiz this seems to be POVFORK of Battle of Torvioll also known as Battle of Lower Dibra. Bes-ART Talk 20:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. North America 1000 09:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.