- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. But tag. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 20:30, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- BallenIsles ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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This article came to my attention because it was, and still is to a lesser extent, highly promotional. Regardless of that, I can find no evidence of notability: the refs and ghits are to realtors and first party sources.; the article claims "some of the most famous golf courses" and "notable people" yet I can find no evidence that has translated into reliable third-party coverage.
WP:GEOFEAT says: "Buildings, including private residences and commercial developments may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability", and I can't find any.
Dorsetonian (
talk)
20:23, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Text struck above because the article has been significantly purged of promotional content since nomination. Dorsetonian ( talk) 16:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong Keep. BallenIsles is one of the most well known neighborhoods in South Florida. Not sure you've looked particularly hard, if you didn't find any evidence of notability. It's hosted major/world-level tournaments for years, from the World Cup Championship, to the PGA Championship and PGA Tour [1]. It was originally created and designed by legendary Florida developer and real estate magnate John D. MacArthur. The historic, social, and architectural importance of the community are pretty well documented -- just because the majority of it is on real-estate or golf sites does not mean they do not qualify as reliable sources.
- Also here, try the Palm Beach Post discussing the historical impact of MacArthur's development, including BallenIsles.)
- See also here, from the city of Palm Beach Gardens.
- How about awards from the US Tennis Association, in which they note it as one of the oldest clubs in South Florida?
- Or here, where the East Course is ranked on the top 100 courses in the world?
- Or here, covered in Florida Golf Magazine, which points out that "The design work for the renovation was done by world-renowned ASGCA Golf Course Architect, Keith Foster. Foster, has designed over 20 of the ‘Top 100 Golf Courses’ in the United States, including the famed Colonial Country Club in Fort Worth, Texas, The Baltimore CC in Baltimore, Maryland, and the venerable Knollwood Club in Lake Forest, Illinois. BallenIsles East Course is Foster’s first designed course in Florida."? It further points out the history: "The old East Course at BallenIsles had a lot of history. Jack Nicklaus and Julius Boros won the PGA tour here at BallenIsles. Bruce Fleisher originally qualified for the PGA tour here, and Lee Trevino teamed with the "Golden Bear" to help the U.S. sweep an exciting World Cup Victory here. BallenIsles has hosted the PGA Championship, the World Cup, the PGA's Senior Championship and countless other Golf Classics."
- Or here, in Florida Weekly, where the author notes picking up "Executive Golfer", a "national magazine published exclusively for country club executive golfers" and notes BallenIsles entry within.
- And that's not even accounting for the residents ranging from Golf and Tennis pros (Venus and Serena -- Serena Williams' recent car accident resulting in a fatality, took place at the south gate of BallenIsles) to guys like Paul Manafort. Sorry, but suggesting that BallenIsles is not notable merely because it's a residential country club and thus heavily skewed towards golf/tennis and real estate coverage is a bit ridiculous -- it's one of the most important neighborhoods in Palm Beach County, let alone South Florida as a whole. ⇒ SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 21:27, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Florida-related deletion discussions.
The Mighty Glen (
talk)
23:12, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I'll add the caveat that it's also desperately in need of a rewrite, as it is too advertisement/promotional oriented at the moment. ⇒ SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 02:26, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - I tried to re-write this article about a year ago and gave up in frustration. It's a real place, actually a "gated community" and has many sources to support that, but the article reads like an advertisement and the GNIS entry places it in a different county, see [2]. The article needs a major copyedit and the unsourced puffery removed. I can totally see what led User:Dorsetonian to AfD this article. Magnolia677 ( talk) 23:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:29, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Golf-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- keep, meets WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG with multiples sources listed above, also this Links magazine article, although a tad promotional, gives more info about the community, including that one of the courses was a finalist in Golf Magazine 2008 Renovation of the Year award. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. But tag. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 20:30, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
- BallenIsles ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
This article came to my attention because it was, and still is to a lesser extent, highly promotional. Regardless of that, I can find no evidence of notability: the refs and ghits are to realtors and first party sources.; the article claims "some of the most famous golf courses" and "notable people" yet I can find no evidence that has translated into reliable third-party coverage.
WP:GEOFEAT says: "Buildings, including private residences and commercial developments may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability", and I can't find any.
Dorsetonian (
talk)
20:23, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Text struck above because the article has been significantly purged of promotional content since nomination. Dorsetonian ( talk) 16:44, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Strong Keep. BallenIsles is one of the most well known neighborhoods in South Florida. Not sure you've looked particularly hard, if you didn't find any evidence of notability. It's hosted major/world-level tournaments for years, from the World Cup Championship, to the PGA Championship and PGA Tour [1]. It was originally created and designed by legendary Florida developer and real estate magnate John D. MacArthur. The historic, social, and architectural importance of the community are pretty well documented -- just because the majority of it is on real-estate or golf sites does not mean they do not qualify as reliable sources.
- Also here, try the Palm Beach Post discussing the historical impact of MacArthur's development, including BallenIsles.)
- See also here, from the city of Palm Beach Gardens.
- How about awards from the US Tennis Association, in which they note it as one of the oldest clubs in South Florida?
- Or here, where the East Course is ranked on the top 100 courses in the world?
- Or here, covered in Florida Golf Magazine, which points out that "The design work for the renovation was done by world-renowned ASGCA Golf Course Architect, Keith Foster. Foster, has designed over 20 of the ‘Top 100 Golf Courses’ in the United States, including the famed Colonial Country Club in Fort Worth, Texas, The Baltimore CC in Baltimore, Maryland, and the venerable Knollwood Club in Lake Forest, Illinois. BallenIsles East Course is Foster’s first designed course in Florida."? It further points out the history: "The old East Course at BallenIsles had a lot of history. Jack Nicklaus and Julius Boros won the PGA tour here at BallenIsles. Bruce Fleisher originally qualified for the PGA tour here, and Lee Trevino teamed with the "Golden Bear" to help the U.S. sweep an exciting World Cup Victory here. BallenIsles has hosted the PGA Championship, the World Cup, the PGA's Senior Championship and countless other Golf Classics."
- Or here, in Florida Weekly, where the author notes picking up "Executive Golfer", a "national magazine published exclusively for country club executive golfers" and notes BallenIsles entry within.
- And that's not even accounting for the residents ranging from Golf and Tennis pros (Venus and Serena -- Serena Williams' recent car accident resulting in a fatality, took place at the south gate of BallenIsles) to guys like Paul Manafort. Sorry, but suggesting that BallenIsles is not notable merely because it's a residential country club and thus heavily skewed towards golf/tennis and real estate coverage is a bit ridiculous -- it's one of the most important neighborhoods in Palm Beach County, let alone South Florida as a whole. ⇒ SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 21:27, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
list of Florida-related deletion discussions.
The Mighty Glen (
talk)
23:12, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I'll add the caveat that it's also desperately in need of a rewrite, as it is too advertisement/promotional oriented at the moment. ⇒ SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 02:26, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- Keep - I tried to re-write this article about a year ago and gave up in frustration. It's a real place, actually a "gated community" and has many sources to support that, but the article reads like an advertisement and the GNIS entry places it in a different county, see [2]. The article needs a major copyedit and the unsourced puffery removed. I can totally see what led User:Dorsetonian to AfD this article. Magnolia677 ( talk) 23:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:29, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Golf-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 02:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- keep, meets WP:GEOLAND and WP:GNG with multiples sources listed above, also this Links magazine article, although a tad promotional, gives more info about the community, including that one of the courses was a finalist in Golf Magazine 2008 Renovation of the Year award. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:07, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.