The result was no consensus. Merging can be dealt with on the respective article talk pages \ Backslash Forwardslash / { talk} 00:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Double entry: Armen Firman and Abbas Ibn Firnas are one and the same person, with Armen Firman being only the latinized version. The claim is that there were two different persons in 9th century Cordoba, Spain: one jumping with a cloak from a tower, and the other one, apparently having been inspired, some years later gliding with a set of feathery wings from a hill. This is according to my research wrong. In fact, there was only one person, the notable poet Abbas Ibn Firnas, who was said to have made the gliding experiment.
Reasoning:
Both reproduce - identically - the original source, a 17th century Moroccan author. From White:
"Among other very curious experiments which he made," continues al- Maqqari, " one is his trying to fly. He covered himself with feathers for the purpose, attached a couple of wings to his body, and, getting on an eminence, flung himself down into the air, when, according to the testimony of several trustworthy writers who witnessed the performance, he flew a considerable distance, as if he had been a bird, but, in alighting again on the place whence he had started, his back was very much hurt, for not knowing that birds when they alight come down upon their tails, he forgot to provide himself with one."
This is all, they both explicitly state that no other source on Abbas' flight attempt has survived. Unless we can substantiate the existence of Armen Firman in a scholarly work, which in turn provides its source(s), chances are that Armen Firman never existed. Because if he did, he should have been mentioned by those two scholars who explicitly deal with Abbas' flight.
There is also a biography on Abbas, which could help verify Abbas' Latin name, but I don't have it at hand: "Abbas Ibn Firnas", by Juan Vernet, in: Dictionary of Scientific Biography, I:5. The delete - as opposed to a merge - is important because, due to the story of Armen Firman circulating in the net, it is only a question of time, until an article on him is created, so we better need a delete log. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 20:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Yes, I am aware of the problem of making a case against something ex silentio. That's why I wrote to Mr. Lienhard himself, the main source cited, and that's what he today amended in response to my inquiry:
On July 8, 2009, I received an email from a Wikipedia editor/contributor who raised the question as to whether Ibn Firnas and Armen Firman were two different people. The historical record is very thin and it contains no primary source material mentioning Firman. The contributor points to the possibility that Firnas' name along with the date and details of his flight, may have been confused in secondary writings.
In other words, he, too, knows of no primary sources which prove Armen Firman's existence. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 19:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC) reply
The result was no consensus. Merging can be dealt with on the respective article talk pages \ Backslash Forwardslash / { talk} 00:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Double entry: Armen Firman and Abbas Ibn Firnas are one and the same person, with Armen Firman being only the latinized version. The claim is that there were two different persons in 9th century Cordoba, Spain: one jumping with a cloak from a tower, and the other one, apparently having been inspired, some years later gliding with a set of feathery wings from a hill. This is according to my research wrong. In fact, there was only one person, the notable poet Abbas Ibn Firnas, who was said to have made the gliding experiment.
Reasoning:
Both reproduce - identically - the original source, a 17th century Moroccan author. From White:
"Among other very curious experiments which he made," continues al- Maqqari, " one is his trying to fly. He covered himself with feathers for the purpose, attached a couple of wings to his body, and, getting on an eminence, flung himself down into the air, when, according to the testimony of several trustworthy writers who witnessed the performance, he flew a considerable distance, as if he had been a bird, but, in alighting again on the place whence he had started, his back was very much hurt, for not knowing that birds when they alight come down upon their tails, he forgot to provide himself with one."
This is all, they both explicitly state that no other source on Abbas' flight attempt has survived. Unless we can substantiate the existence of Armen Firman in a scholarly work, which in turn provides its source(s), chances are that Armen Firman never existed. Because if he did, he should have been mentioned by those two scholars who explicitly deal with Abbas' flight.
There is also a biography on Abbas, which could help verify Abbas' Latin name, but I don't have it at hand: "Abbas Ibn Firnas", by Juan Vernet, in: Dictionary of Scientific Biography, I:5. The delete - as opposed to a merge - is important because, due to the story of Armen Firman circulating in the net, it is only a question of time, until an article on him is created, so we better need a delete log. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 20:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC) reply
Yes, I am aware of the problem of making a case against something ex silentio. That's why I wrote to Mr. Lienhard himself, the main source cited, and that's what he today amended in response to my inquiry:
On July 8, 2009, I received an email from a Wikipedia editor/contributor who raised the question as to whether Ibn Firnas and Armen Firman were two different people. The historical record is very thin and it contains no primary source material mentioning Firman. The contributor points to the possibility that Firnas' name along with the date and details of his flight, may have been confused in secondary writings.
In other words, he, too, knows of no primary sources which prove Armen Firman's existence. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 19:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC) reply