- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. In the sense of "do not delete". The deletion rationale does not make much sense in terms of our inclusion policies. A merger can be discussed on the talk page. Sandstein 15:21, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Arab statesâIsraeli alliance against Iran
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- Arab statesâIsraeli alliance against Iran (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) â ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books ¡ news ¡ scholar ¡ free images ¡ WP refs) ¡ FENS ¡ JSTOR ¡ TWL)
This is a subject made up by some American/Israel "thing-tanks" (or "stink-tanks", as they are known in the Arab world): does not deserve the hype Huldra ( talk) 20:34, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bahrain-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Saudi Arabia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Arab Emirates-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Bordering on, if not actual synth, there is little evidence of an "alliance", even unofficially. Even if some countries have interests that coincide in one or more respects that does not mean that an alliance exists. If there were meetings, statements or joint actions being taken, maybe then. It is not even obvious which countries might be part of said alliance, editors keep adding countries and taking them out. The reuters source is given as implying that US is nurturing this alliance but the Warsaw meeting was intended to gather broad international consensus against Iran and failed to do so, the EU did not attend for example. This is better handled in the myriad of existing articles (per see also list and there are others). Selfstudier ( talk) 10:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
KeepThis is an actual alliance as the four recent Arab states to normalize relations with Israel have been deterred in part by Iran's action in war-torn countries (Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq), but another factor is the conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran is driving these countries to oppose both forces and decide among themselves whether or not to join with Israel in the anti-Iran coalition. After all, Iran backs more militias and armed groups in the war-torn nations in contrast to anybody else in the region. And the Abraham Accords are part of the growing Arab-Israeli alliance after the failed Warsaw convention as the solution is now to normalize ties with Israel as a deterrent without fighting a war, proxy wars, or continuing the proxy wars as they are currently being fought. The Arab states are realizing that Israel isn't really their enemy as they have believed for the past sixty years or so. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- First: the Emirates/Saudis supported the insurrection in Syria long before the Russians/Iranians got involved. Same in Yemen; the Saudis (and UAE) started the bombing, (thinking it would be a "cake-walk"). Iraq and Libya was first destroyed (on false intelligence) by the West/Nato.
- And independent researchers show that less than 10% of the Arab population wants "normalisation" with Israel (even in Jordan; where the number is about 6Â %(!)). The "Abraham Accords" is basically between Israel and a bunch of corrupt, kleptocratic dictators; (something the NYT will never tell you.), Huldra ( talk) 20:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- You can add the cold peace that exists in Egypt after the signing of the Camp David Accords and the following formal treaty from how the majority of the Arabs in the country felt about the warming of ties with Israel, but your point of view of wanting to delete this article possibly stems from a bias, most likely anti-Israeli, which alone isn't enough to justify the deletion of this article. The sources used in the article are credible and if you can find sources from your own research that can support your claim that no such alliance against Iran exists it would be greatly appreciated. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 01:19, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: I agree with WikiCleanerMan-- Steamboat2020 ( talk) 03:04, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep As per above explained. Sliekid ( talk) 08:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Strong Keep My position on this proposal is clearly established. I request this AFD discussion be closed with Keep being the result since the delete side haven't provided sources to support their stance. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 22:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- That would be OK except that there is no supporting evidence that this so called alliance even exists. It's a fairy story.
Selfstudier (
talk)
22:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please provide a source if you can. Thank you. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
01:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- It isn't up to me to prove that this "alliance" doesn't exist, I only need to show that the sources given in the article do not prove that it does exist. Firstly, when did it come into existence, if it did? Two of the sources point to the 2006 Lebanon war as a possible start point but these two sources don't say who the members were, in fact all of the sources, 10 of them (several are not really rs) just have vague statements about Sunni Arab states or Gulf States ( plus Jordan + Egypt??). Of course it is true that there is a group of states that dislike Iran (monarchies at risk, nuclear weapon, etcetera) but it's a step from there to an "alliance". It is also an open secret that there have been ties on the quiet between Israel and some Arab states for a long time and now there are not so quiet normalization agreements, of which UAE seems the most progressed for now (note not with Saudi, Oman or Kuwait). If we are to accept that this alliance has existed since 2006, then why cannot we see a source clearly setting out, the when it was formed, who are it's members (Jordan, Egypt, Qatar and Kuwait were in the list and taken out on 4 January?? Before that, the US and Sudan were shown in the list as members.), what are it's goals, when do they meet and what actions have they specifically taken (none at all as far as I can see, it's all blah blah.) The best you could say about some grouping of Gulf/Sunni states/Israel and possibly the US is there is a confluence of interest in restraining Iran but even now, it seems that the new US admin is willing in principle to reenter the Iran nuclear deal even if they will consult with this coalition of the disaffected. Selfstudier ( talk) 16:15, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please provide a source if you can. Thank you. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
01:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- That would be OK except that there is no supporting evidence that this so called alliance even exists. It's a fairy story.
Selfstudier (
talk)
22:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge with Foreign relations of Israel. At this point in time, there is not enough material about this supposed "alliance." ImTheIP ( talk) 12:49, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge: The article is very short and can be incorporated into Foreign relations of Israel or the ArabâIranian conflict.-- Sakiv ( talk) 16:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: Can someone please provide sources? Evidence that contradicts ones cited in the article? Saying to delete and/or merge isn't enough. Please provide evidence of the alleged non-existence of this alliance. And Selfstudier, if you're going to be one of the people calling for the deletion of this article, then you should provide evidence. Then what is the point in calling yourself a self studier if you aren't going to be providing research to your claims other than just a vague statement of what purports to be anti-Israeli bias? -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:38, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment @ WikiCleanerMan: you do know you only get one vote, right? Since you have now voted three times, I have struck the first and the most recent. To repeat myself, asking someone to prove the non-existence of something is asking for the proof of a negative,do look it up. The onus is on you to show why it should be kept and the sources are hopelessly insufficient. I would also remind you of WP:NPA. Selfstudier ( talk) 18:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- There was no personal attack and you haven't been able to prove anything. But to prove such an alliance exists since you won't prove your claims yourself here is an article worth reading
Donald Trump's New World Order. As for the onus, both sides have to prove their arguments using evidence. The three calling for deletion haven't added any facts, just anti-Israeli bias, which is no justification for deletion as editors have to be neutral regardless of their viewpoints. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
19:37, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- I cannot find anything in the article that supports the existence of an alliance between Israel and the Arab states, official or otherwise. It seems that this Wikipedia article is mostly based on speculation. Therefore, its contents should be merged into the existing article about Israel's foreign relations. ImTheIP ( talk) 08:12, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- There was no personal attack and you haven't been able to prove anything. But to prove such an alliance exists since you won't prove your claims yourself here is an article worth reading
Donald Trump's New World Order. As for the onus, both sides have to prove their arguments using evidence. The three calling for deletion haven't added any facts, just anti-Israeli bias, which is no justification for deletion as editors have to be neutral regardless of their viewpoints. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
19:37, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep No policy reason was given for deletion except WP:IDONTLIKEIT.Meet WP:GNG -- Shrike ( talk) 20:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Widely discussed axis of diplomacy/military, easily meets GNG. Vici Vidi ( talk) 07:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I have restored the improperly removed more citations required tag since citations are still needed, no source evidence for this grouping exists, see my additional comments at the article talk page. Selfstudier ( talk) 13:41, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge: The article have one of the worst names I have read in WP in a long time, just add it to Foreign relations of Israel or the ArabâIranian conflict like Sakiv said. Mr.User200 ( talk) 02:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment It will help those calling for the article to be redirected or deleted should take the time to read the sources provided in the article. And for those that keep removing information should stop. You are not helping your cause. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 15:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. In the sense of "do not delete". The deletion rationale does not make much sense in terms of our inclusion policies. A merger can be discussed on the talk page. Sandstein 15:21, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Arab statesâIsraeli alliance against Iran
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Arab statesâIsraeli alliance against Iran (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) â ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books ¡ news ¡ scholar ¡ free images ¡ WP refs) ¡ FENS ¡ JSTOR ¡ TWL)
This is a subject made up by some American/Israel "thing-tanks" (or "stink-tanks", as they are known in the Arab world): does not deserve the hype Huldra ( talk) 20:34, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bahrain-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Saudi Arabia-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Arab Emirates-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 20:55, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Bordering on, if not actual synth, there is little evidence of an "alliance", even unofficially. Even if some countries have interests that coincide in one or more respects that does not mean that an alliance exists. If there were meetings, statements or joint actions being taken, maybe then. It is not even obvious which countries might be part of said alliance, editors keep adding countries and taking them out. The reuters source is given as implying that US is nurturing this alliance but the Warsaw meeting was intended to gather broad international consensus against Iran and failed to do so, the EU did not attend for example. This is better handled in the myriad of existing articles (per see also list and there are others). Selfstudier ( talk) 10:37, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
KeepThis is an actual alliance as the four recent Arab states to normalize relations with Israel have been deterred in part by Iran's action in war-torn countries (Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq), but another factor is the conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran is driving these countries to oppose both forces and decide among themselves whether or not to join with Israel in the anti-Iran coalition. After all, Iran backs more militias and armed groups in the war-torn nations in contrast to anybody else in the region. And the Abraham Accords are part of the growing Arab-Israeli alliance after the failed Warsaw convention as the solution is now to normalize ties with Israel as a deterrent without fighting a war, proxy wars, or continuing the proxy wars as they are currently being fought. The Arab states are realizing that Israel isn't really their enemy as they have believed for the past sixty years or so. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:07, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- First: the Emirates/Saudis supported the insurrection in Syria long before the Russians/Iranians got involved. Same in Yemen; the Saudis (and UAE) started the bombing, (thinking it would be a "cake-walk"). Iraq and Libya was first destroyed (on false intelligence) by the West/Nato.
- And independent researchers show that less than 10% of the Arab population wants "normalisation" with Israel (even in Jordan; where the number is about 6Â %(!)). The "Abraham Accords" is basically between Israel and a bunch of corrupt, kleptocratic dictators; (something the NYT will never tell you.), Huldra ( talk) 20:30, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- You can add the cold peace that exists in Egypt after the signing of the Camp David Accords and the following formal treaty from how the majority of the Arabs in the country felt about the warming of ties with Israel, but your point of view of wanting to delete this article possibly stems from a bias, most likely anti-Israeli, which alone isn't enough to justify the deletion of this article. The sources used in the article are credible and if you can find sources from your own research that can support your claim that no such alliance against Iran exists it would be greatly appreciated. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 01:19, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep: I agree with WikiCleanerMan-- Steamboat2020 ( talk) 03:04, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep As per above explained. Sliekid ( talk) 08:21, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Strong Keep My position on this proposal is clearly established. I request this AFD discussion be closed with Keep being the result since the delete side haven't provided sources to support their stance. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 22:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- That would be OK except that there is no supporting evidence that this so called alliance even exists. It's a fairy story.
Selfstudier (
talk)
22:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please provide a source if you can. Thank you. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
01:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- It isn't up to me to prove that this "alliance" doesn't exist, I only need to show that the sources given in the article do not prove that it does exist. Firstly, when did it come into existence, if it did? Two of the sources point to the 2006 Lebanon war as a possible start point but these two sources don't say who the members were, in fact all of the sources, 10 of them (several are not really rs) just have vague statements about Sunni Arab states or Gulf States ( plus Jordan + Egypt??). Of course it is true that there is a group of states that dislike Iran (monarchies at risk, nuclear weapon, etcetera) but it's a step from there to an "alliance". It is also an open secret that there have been ties on the quiet between Israel and some Arab states for a long time and now there are not so quiet normalization agreements, of which UAE seems the most progressed for now (note not with Saudi, Oman or Kuwait). If we are to accept that this alliance has existed since 2006, then why cannot we see a source clearly setting out, the when it was formed, who are it's members (Jordan, Egypt, Qatar and Kuwait were in the list and taken out on 4 January?? Before that, the US and Sudan were shown in the list as members.), what are it's goals, when do they meet and what actions have they specifically taken (none at all as far as I can see, it's all blah blah.) The best you could say about some grouping of Gulf/Sunni states/Israel and possibly the US is there is a confluence of interest in restraining Iran but even now, it seems that the new US admin is willing in principle to reenter the Iran nuclear deal even if they will consult with this coalition of the disaffected. Selfstudier ( talk) 16:15, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please provide a source if you can. Thank you. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
01:16, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- That would be OK except that there is no supporting evidence that this so called alliance even exists. It's a fairy story.
Selfstudier (
talk)
22:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge with Foreign relations of Israel. At this point in time, there is not enough material about this supposed "alliance." ImTheIP ( talk) 12:49, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge: The article is very short and can be incorporated into Foreign relations of Israel or the ArabâIranian conflict.-- Sakiv ( talk) 16:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment: Can someone please provide sources? Evidence that contradicts ones cited in the article? Saying to delete and/or merge isn't enough. Please provide evidence of the alleged non-existence of this alliance. And Selfstudier, if you're going to be one of the people calling for the deletion of this article, then you should provide evidence. Then what is the point in calling yourself a self studier if you aren't going to be providing research to your claims other than just a vague statement of what purports to be anti-Israeli bias? -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 17:38, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment @ WikiCleanerMan: you do know you only get one vote, right? Since you have now voted three times, I have struck the first and the most recent. To repeat myself, asking someone to prove the non-existence of something is asking for the proof of a negative,do look it up. The onus is on you to show why it should be kept and the sources are hopelessly insufficient. I would also remind you of WP:NPA. Selfstudier ( talk) 18:10, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- There was no personal attack and you haven't been able to prove anything. But to prove such an alliance exists since you won't prove your claims yourself here is an article worth reading
Donald Trump's New World Order. As for the onus, both sides have to prove their arguments using evidence. The three calling for deletion haven't added any facts, just anti-Israeli bias, which is no justification for deletion as editors have to be neutral regardless of their viewpoints. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
19:37, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- I cannot find anything in the article that supports the existence of an alliance between Israel and the Arab states, official or otherwise. It seems that this Wikipedia article is mostly based on speculation. Therefore, its contents should be merged into the existing article about Israel's foreign relations. ImTheIP ( talk) 08:12, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- There was no personal attack and you haven't been able to prove anything. But to prove such an alliance exists since you won't prove your claims yourself here is an article worth reading
Donald Trump's New World Order. As for the onus, both sides have to prove their arguments using evidence. The three calling for deletion haven't added any facts, just anti-Israeli bias, which is no justification for deletion as editors have to be neutral regardless of their viewpoints. --
WikiCleanerMan (
talk)
19:37, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep No policy reason was given for deletion except WP:IDONTLIKEIT.Meet WP:GNG -- Shrike ( talk) 20:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. Widely discussed axis of diplomacy/military, easily meets GNG. Vici Vidi ( talk) 07:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment I have restored the improperly removed more citations required tag since citations are still needed, no source evidence for this grouping exists, see my additional comments at the article talk page. Selfstudier ( talk) 13:41, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
- Merge: The article have one of the worst names I have read in WP in a long time, just add it to Foreign relations of Israel or the ArabâIranian conflict like Sakiv said. Mr.User200 ( talk) 02:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
- Comment It will help those calling for the article to be redirected or deleted should take the time to read the sources provided in the article. And for those that keep removing information should stop. You are not helping your cause. -- WikiCleanerMan ( talk) 15:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.