- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:18, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Alisson Abarca
- Alisson Abarca ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A directory-like listing for an unremarkable pageant winner. A BLP with insuffient reliable secondary sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail. Created by Special:Contributions/NuestraBelleza2017 currently indef blocked for abusing multiple accounts; pls see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dxow981. Also edited by another blocked sock farm ( Special:Contributions/Medianadia). Delete per WP:DENY. K.e.coffman ( talk) 18:14, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of El Salvador-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete lack of substantial coverage to show notability and pass GNG. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Competing at the highest level of her field is a reasonable claim to notability -- one that is used by virtually every WikiProject that covers structured systems of organized competitions. So long as the fact of participation at that highest level can be verified (and, here, it can), then even a stub article is acceptable. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 17:31, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
*Delete winning this national pageant does not confer automatic notability, and media coverage of this pageant winner does not suffice to pass
WP:GNG.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 16:06, 25 March 2018 (UTC) Haven't got time to evaluate this further.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 18:24, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Just for clarification, I'm not asserting notability merely on the basis of winning a national pageant, but also on the fact that the subject participated in a competition that was viewed by something on the order of 1 billion people. Also, the six or seven (I've lost count) sources added by Milowent and myself bear out the presumption that such sources existed. I also note that two of the sources I added were not from the subject's native El Salvador, but from Mexico and Peru. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 17:34, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: The sources being added show that she is notable as a national pageant winner from a country that has multiple online mainstream-level news sources. Typically we only delete national winners from very poor black countries because we assume the lack of online coverage means we can't show notability (not that I agree with that).-- Milowent • has spoken 17:13, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:21, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete- being a Miss Universe contestant does not confer automatic notability. Have her name on the pageant's page, her own article does not appear warranted without significant coverage of her as an individual. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 13:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisted to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Exemplo347 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Relisted to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Exemplo347 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I've improved her article greatly with information and citations. With the current sourcing, the article now easily passes WP:GNG for "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." She is extremely popular in El Salvador, and her activities are reported on regularly. She was covered extensively in the media for winning Miss Universe El Salvador 2017, then received significant coverage about her activities leading up to Miss Universe, including her choice to get plastic surgery (which recieved both media criticism and support). She again received significant coverage from the Miss Universe pageant because she kept tripping on her costume and couldn't finish the catwalk. There was lots of discussion about that, and how her fans still support her. She passes WP:ANYBIO for "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." There is no bigger pageant award in El Salvador than Miss Universe El Salvador. She passes WP:ENTERTAINER for "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" (performed in Miss Universe El Salvador and Miss Universe, as well as on various television segments in her country) and "Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following" (she's extremely popular in El Salvador) Lonehexagon ( talk) 23:55, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The subject has received what I think amounts to SIGCOV. Vast majority of the coverage is in Spanish, but it is not a requirement for the coverage to be English-language. Hrodvarsson ( talk) 22:00, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nom's comment: I would still argue that the subject is not notable, despite article improvements. The copy is largely trivia, as in:
- "She received both criticism and support for using cosmetic surgery, including breast enhancement,[10] to improve her appearance in preparation for the Miss Universe pageant.[11][12] Abarca says she is not ashamed.[13][14]"
- Keeping such articles would only encourage spammers / socks to produce more of BLPs on marginally-notable individuals. I believe that
WP:DENY should carry substantial weight here.
K.e.coffman (
talk) 04:55, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I disagree that those types of facts are trivia. As a beauty contestant her appearance and personality are what people are most interested in. The fact she's received so much coverage about those types of things is indicative of public interest. The purpose of Wikipedia and the WP:GNG guidelines is to document subjects people find notable (as indicated by significant coverage in secondary sources). It's not our job to put value judgements on what we personally think is notable. Lonehexagon ( talk) 16:23, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:18, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
Alisson Abarca
- Alisson Abarca ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A directory-like listing for an unremarkable pageant winner. A BLP with insuffient reliable secondary sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail. Created by Special:Contributions/NuestraBelleza2017 currently indef blocked for abusing multiple accounts; pls see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Dxow981. Also edited by another blocked sock farm ( Special:Contributions/Medianadia). Delete per WP:DENY. K.e.coffman ( talk) 18:14, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of El Salvador-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete lack of substantial coverage to show notability and pass GNG. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:09, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Competing at the highest level of her field is a reasonable claim to notability -- one that is used by virtually every WikiProject that covers structured systems of organized competitions. So long as the fact of participation at that highest level can be verified (and, here, it can), then even a stub article is acceptable. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 17:31, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
*Delete winning this national pageant does not confer automatic notability, and media coverage of this pageant winner does not suffice to pass
WP:GNG.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 16:06, 25 March 2018 (UTC) Haven't got time to evaluate this further.
E.M.Gregory (
talk) 18:24, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Just for clarification, I'm not asserting notability merely on the basis of winning a national pageant, but also on the fact that the subject participated in a competition that was viewed by something on the order of 1 billion people. Also, the six or seven (I've lost count) sources added by Milowent and myself bear out the presumption that such sources existed. I also note that two of the sources I added were not from the subject's native El Salvador, but from Mexico and Peru. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 17:34, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep: The sources being added show that she is notable as a national pageant winner from a country that has multiple online mainstream-level news sources. Typically we only delete national winners from very poor black countries because we assume the lack of online coverage means we can't show notability (not that I agree with that).-- Milowent • has spoken 17:13, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:21, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
- Delete- being a Miss Universe contestant does not confer automatic notability. Have her name on the pageant's page, her own article does not appear warranted without significant coverage of her as an individual. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ᐐT₳LKᐬ 13:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisted to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Exemplo347 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Relisted to allow further discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Exemplo347 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
- Keep I've improved her article greatly with information and citations. With the current sourcing, the article now easily passes WP:GNG for "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." She is extremely popular in El Salvador, and her activities are reported on regularly. She was covered extensively in the media for winning Miss Universe El Salvador 2017, then received significant coverage about her activities leading up to Miss Universe, including her choice to get plastic surgery (which recieved both media criticism and support). She again received significant coverage from the Miss Universe pageant because she kept tripping on her costume and couldn't finish the catwalk. There was lots of discussion about that, and how her fans still support her. She passes WP:ANYBIO for "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." There is no bigger pageant award in El Salvador than Miss Universe El Salvador. She passes WP:ENTERTAINER for "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" (performed in Miss Universe El Salvador and Miss Universe, as well as on various television segments in her country) and "Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following" (she's extremely popular in El Salvador) Lonehexagon ( talk) 23:55, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 20:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Keep The subject has received what I think amounts to SIGCOV. Vast majority of the coverage is in Spanish, but it is not a requirement for the coverage to be English-language. Hrodvarsson ( talk) 22:00, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
- Nom's comment: I would still argue that the subject is not notable, despite article improvements. The copy is largely trivia, as in:
- "She received both criticism and support for using cosmetic surgery, including breast enhancement,[10] to improve her appearance in preparation for the Miss Universe pageant.[11][12] Abarca says she is not ashamed.[13][14]"
- Keeping such articles would only encourage spammers / socks to produce more of BLPs on marginally-notable individuals. I believe that
WP:DENY should carry substantial weight here.
K.e.coffman (
talk) 04:55, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- I disagree that those types of facts are trivia. As a beauty contestant her appearance and personality are what people are most interested in. The fact she's received so much coverage about those types of things is indicative of public interest. The purpose of Wikipedia and the WP:GNG guidelines is to document subjects people find notable (as indicated by significant coverage in secondary sources). It's not our job to put value judgements on what we personally think is notable. Lonehexagon ( talk) 16:23, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.