- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep, withdrawn with no dissenting opinions. — David Eppstein ( talk) 23:18, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Aleksey Kokel
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- Aleksey Kokel ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails to meet WP:BIO. Artist known locally in his community with no international or nationwide recognition. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 12:43, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 12:46, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Exists in four other language Wikipedias. Plenty of sources in Russian, e.g.: [1] [2].-- Eostrix ( 🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 12:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: First source is a passing mention in a book that is devoted to
Chuvash history. Second is a conference paper held in the region the artist hailed from. Updated comment: I took a look at the Russian sources and a couple of them reference to the
Chuvash Republic government site
[1]
[2], which is obviously not a reliable source. One is a reference to a statement commemorating the artist by the National Museum of the Chuchav Republic
[3]. There is also another source that is a passing mention (artist referenced to 1 page) in a 420 page book
[4]. Four links are dead
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]. One reference is to a catalogue of the artist's work
[9]. One is to a open Russian database of artists
[10]. That's pretty much what the Russians sources are. P.S @
Eostrix: If there is a more streamlined or efficient way to comment with the references and evidence of non-notability please let me know, I'm new around here!
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
12:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Being catalogued and being honored by a state government (
Chuvashia) are also signs of notability. There are a whole lot of hits in google books for Кокель 1880 (most of which refer to this artist).--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- You misunderstood. He wasn't honoured by the Chuvash Republic. There were simply references to him on their government website, which was most likely for the purposes of promoting tourism to their region. Those two links are now dead too, by the way. There is no way to confirm what those government website references constituted, but my best guess is that it would be promotional. As for the cataloging, that too is blatantly non-notable. It was for a catalog produced in 1960 for the exhibition of the artist's works. Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works. There is nothing to suggest that this particular catalog was of any note, quite the contrary.
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
13:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- In regards to "Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works", as Kokel was dead and buried for four years in 1960 it would be quite a feat (a miracle, even) for him to produce his own catalog for the exhibition.--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- I stand corrected it would have taken necromancy for the man to produce his own catalog being dead and all, but I'm still not convinced a catalog produced for what appears to be a dubious local exhibition evidence in support of notability for said artist. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 15:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- In regards to "Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works", as Kokel was dead and buried for four years in 1960 it would be quite a feat (a miracle, even) for him to produce his own catalog for the exhibition.--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- You misunderstood. He wasn't honoured by the Chuvash Republic. There were simply references to him on their government website, which was most likely for the purposes of promoting tourism to their region. Those two links are now dead too, by the way. There is no way to confirm what those government website references constituted, but my best guess is that it would be promotional. As for the cataloging, that too is blatantly non-notable. It was for a catalog produced in 1960 for the exhibition of the artist's works. Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works. There is nothing to suggest that this particular catalog was of any note, quite the contrary.
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
13:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Being catalogued and being honored by a state government (
Chuvashia) are also signs of notability. There are a whole lot of hits in google books for Кокель 1880 (most of which refer to this artist).--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: First source is a passing mention in a book that is devoted to
Chuvash history. Second is a conference paper held in the region the artist hailed from. Updated comment: I took a look at the Russian sources and a couple of them reference to the
Chuvash Republic government site
[1]
[2], which is obviously not a reliable source. One is a reference to a statement commemorating the artist by the National Museum of the Chuchav Republic
[3]. There is also another source that is a passing mention (artist referenced to 1 page) in a 420 page book
[4]. Four links are dead
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]. One reference is to a catalogue of the artist's work
[9]. One is to a open Russian database of artists
[10]. That's pretty much what the Russians sources are. P.S @
Eostrix: If there is a more streamlined or efficient way to comment with the references and evidence of non-notability please let me know, I'm new around here!
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
12:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Kokel created significant body of work that was the primary subject of Васильев, В. А (2009). Алексей Афанасьевич Кокель: 1880-1956 : жызнь и творчество (in Russian). Чебоксары: Издател'скии Дом "Пегас". ISBN 978-5-91225-021-7. OCLC 775591819. Vexations ( talk) 15:25, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://gov.cap.ru/hierarhy.asp?page=./299/2899/48887/72612/73213
- ^ http://gov.cap.ru/hierarhy.asp?page=./5032/11628/46625/74572
- ^ http://www.lib.cap.ru/kokel3.asp
- ^ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%90%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#cite_ref-_1ebe5826ac261ff7_8-0
- ^ http://interkavkaz.info/image/350_%d0%9a%d0%be%d0%ba%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8c_%d0%90%d0%bb%d0%b5%d0%ba%d1%81%d0%b5%d0%b9_%d0%90%d1%84%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%8c%d0%b5%d0%b2%d0%b8%d1%87
- ^ http://www.culture21.ru/Page.aspx?orgid=385&page=./54/4042
- ^ http://www.cheb.ru/history/street/kokel.htm
- ^ http://artru.info/ar/18988/
- ^ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%90%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#cite_ref-7
- ^ https://experimental.worldcat.org/fast/1657246/
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, meets WP:NARTIST, and WP:GNG, his work was part of an exhibition at Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center ( "Upon request. Russian Avant-Garde Collections from Regional Museums"), his work is held in Chuvash National Museum ( see here - these are a part of the virtual exhibtion held by the Russian Museum "Architectural Monuments and Natural Reserves of Crimea in the National Fine Arts")( also see "Compositional and Color Construction Paintings A. A. Kokel "In The Tea Room"" btw, this magazine/journal article discusses this work indepth, also this painting was exhibited in Europe including Munich and Venice - ( see here, page 68)), did he teach or was he also the principal/ rector of Kharkiv State School of Art? Also found these that discuss Kokel/his work:- conference paper published by Transcarpathian Art Institute - "A.A. Kokel in the artistic culture of Ukraine", Bulletin of Vyatka State University - "A.A. KOKEL in ARTISTIC CULTURE of the UKRAINE in 1910-1920", from Bulletin of Tomsk State University - "The Artist as a Subject of Interaction of Russian and Ukrainian Cultures in the First Quarter of the Twentieth Century", here is a book published by the Chuvash State University (unfortunately limited to 500 copies so may be hard to find a physical copy:)) that includes an indepth bio of him - Kokels and Their Heritage - ch1. "Alexey afanstievich Kokel - Artist With a World Name" (pages 15 to 129) it includes, for example, a 1912 quote by Ilya Repin - "“... I recall with great force the canvas of that artist (Mr. Kokel), who painted the painting In the Tea Room: it has originality and typicality. "" (page 61), note a lot of these are from the bibliography of the National Library of the Chuvash Republic bio - "Outstanding people of Chuvashia: Kokel Alexey Afanasevich". Coolabahapple ( talk) 15:22, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep. As far as I see from Russian language sources, he was one of the most important painters in Chuvashia. This link includes bibliography of more than 30 books in Russian, where he is mentioned, with first 6 books especially dedicated to him. [3]. Arthistorian1977 ( talk) 12:54, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: I would like to herein rescind the nomination of said article for deletion. My mistake on this one. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 18:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep, withdrawn with no dissenting opinions. — David Eppstein ( talk) 23:18, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Aleksey Kokel
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Aleksey Kokel ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails to meet WP:BIO. Artist known locally in his community with no international or nationwide recognition. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 12:43, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 12:46, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep. Exists in four other language Wikipedias. Plenty of sources in Russian, e.g.: [1] [2].-- Eostrix ( 🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 12:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: First source is a passing mention in a book that is devoted to
Chuvash history. Second is a conference paper held in the region the artist hailed from. Updated comment: I took a look at the Russian sources and a couple of them reference to the
Chuvash Republic government site
[1]
[2], which is obviously not a reliable source. One is a reference to a statement commemorating the artist by the National Museum of the Chuchav Republic
[3]. There is also another source that is a passing mention (artist referenced to 1 page) in a 420 page book
[4]. Four links are dead
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]. One reference is to a catalogue of the artist's work
[9]. One is to a open Russian database of artists
[10]. That's pretty much what the Russians sources are. P.S @
Eostrix: If there is a more streamlined or efficient way to comment with the references and evidence of non-notability please let me know, I'm new around here!
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
12:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Being catalogued and being honored by a state government (
Chuvashia) are also signs of notability. There are a whole lot of hits in google books for Кокель 1880 (most of which refer to this artist).--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- You misunderstood. He wasn't honoured by the Chuvash Republic. There were simply references to him on their government website, which was most likely for the purposes of promoting tourism to their region. Those two links are now dead too, by the way. There is no way to confirm what those government website references constituted, but my best guess is that it would be promotional. As for the cataloging, that too is blatantly non-notable. It was for a catalog produced in 1960 for the exhibition of the artist's works. Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works. There is nothing to suggest that this particular catalog was of any note, quite the contrary.
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
13:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- In regards to "Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works", as Kokel was dead and buried for four years in 1960 it would be quite a feat (a miracle, even) for him to produce his own catalog for the exhibition.--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- I stand corrected it would have taken necromancy for the man to produce his own catalog being dead and all, but I'm still not convinced a catalog produced for what appears to be a dubious local exhibition evidence in support of notability for said artist. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 15:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- In regards to "Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works", as Kokel was dead and buried for four years in 1960 it would be quite a feat (a miracle, even) for him to produce his own catalog for the exhibition.--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:59, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- You misunderstood. He wasn't honoured by the Chuvash Republic. There were simply references to him on their government website, which was most likely for the purposes of promoting tourism to their region. Those two links are now dead too, by the way. There is no way to confirm what those government website references constituted, but my best guess is that it would be promotional. As for the cataloging, that too is blatantly non-notable. It was for a catalog produced in 1960 for the exhibition of the artist's works. Any artist that has ever had an exhibition could produce a reference to their own catalog of works. There is nothing to suggest that this particular catalog was of any note, quite the contrary.
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
13:37, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Being catalogued and being honored by a state government (
Chuvashia) are also signs of notability. There are a whole lot of hits in google books for Кокель 1880 (most of which refer to this artist).--
Eostrix (
🦉 hoot hoot🦉)
13:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: First source is a passing mention in a book that is devoted to
Chuvash history. Second is a conference paper held in the region the artist hailed from. Updated comment: I took a look at the Russian sources and a couple of them reference to the
Chuvash Republic government site
[1]
[2], which is obviously not a reliable source. One is a reference to a statement commemorating the artist by the National Museum of the Chuchav Republic
[3]. There is also another source that is a passing mention (artist referenced to 1 page) in a 420 page book
[4]. Four links are dead
[5]
[6]
[7]
[8]. One reference is to a catalogue of the artist's work
[9]. One is to a open Russian database of artists
[10]. That's pretty much what the Russians sources are. P.S @
Eostrix: If there is a more streamlined or efficient way to comment with the references and evidence of non-notability please let me know, I'm new around here!
Nearlyevil665 (
talk)
12:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep Kokel created significant body of work that was the primary subject of Васильев, В. А (2009). Алексей Афанасьевич Кокель: 1880-1956 : жызнь и творчество (in Russian). Чебоксары: Издател'скии Дом "Пегас". ISBN 978-5-91225-021-7. OCLC 775591819. Vexations ( talk) 15:25, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://gov.cap.ru/hierarhy.asp?page=./299/2899/48887/72612/73213
- ^ http://gov.cap.ru/hierarhy.asp?page=./5032/11628/46625/74572
- ^ http://www.lib.cap.ru/kokel3.asp
- ^ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%90%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#cite_ref-_1ebe5826ac261ff7_8-0
- ^ http://interkavkaz.info/image/350_%d0%9a%d0%be%d0%ba%d0%b5%d0%bb%d1%8c_%d0%90%d0%bb%d0%b5%d0%ba%d1%81%d0%b5%d0%b9_%d0%90%d1%84%d0%b0%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%81%d1%8c%d0%b5%d0%b2%d0%b8%d1%87
- ^ http://www.culture21.ru/Page.aspx?orgid=385&page=./54/4042
- ^ http://www.cheb.ru/history/street/kokel.htm
- ^ http://artru.info/ar/18988/
- ^ https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C,_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B9_%D0%90%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#cite_ref-7
- ^ https://experimental.worldcat.org/fast/1657246/
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 05:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple ( talk) 06:01, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep, meets WP:NARTIST, and WP:GNG, his work was part of an exhibition at Jewish Museum and Tolerance Center ( "Upon request. Russian Avant-Garde Collections from Regional Museums"), his work is held in Chuvash National Museum ( see here - these are a part of the virtual exhibtion held by the Russian Museum "Architectural Monuments and Natural Reserves of Crimea in the National Fine Arts")( also see "Compositional and Color Construction Paintings A. A. Kokel "In The Tea Room"" btw, this magazine/journal article discusses this work indepth, also this painting was exhibited in Europe including Munich and Venice - ( see here, page 68)), did he teach or was he also the principal/ rector of Kharkiv State School of Art? Also found these that discuss Kokel/his work:- conference paper published by Transcarpathian Art Institute - "A.A. Kokel in the artistic culture of Ukraine", Bulletin of Vyatka State University - "A.A. KOKEL in ARTISTIC CULTURE of the UKRAINE in 1910-1920", from Bulletin of Tomsk State University - "The Artist as a Subject of Interaction of Russian and Ukrainian Cultures in the First Quarter of the Twentieth Century", here is a book published by the Chuvash State University (unfortunately limited to 500 copies so may be hard to find a physical copy:)) that includes an indepth bio of him - Kokels and Their Heritage - ch1. "Alexey afanstievich Kokel - Artist With a World Name" (pages 15 to 129) it includes, for example, a 1912 quote by Ilya Repin - "“... I recall with great force the canvas of that artist (Mr. Kokel), who painted the painting In the Tea Room: it has originality and typicality. "" (page 61), note a lot of these are from the bibliography of the National Library of the Chuvash Republic bio - "Outstanding people of Chuvashia: Kokel Alexey Afanasevich". Coolabahapple ( talk) 15:22, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Keep. As far as I see from Russian language sources, he was one of the most important painters in Chuvashia. This link includes bibliography of more than 30 books in Russian, where he is mentioned, with first 6 books especially dedicated to him. [3]. Arthistorian1977 ( talk) 12:54, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
- Keep: I would like to herein rescind the nomination of said article for deletion. My mistake on this one. Nearlyevil665 ( talk) 18:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.