The result of the debate was Closed and resubmitted for new debate; the current debate has turned into a partisan political argument which has grossly clouded the basic issue. Bearcat 09:02, 5 November 2005 (UTC) reply
This afd nomination was incomplete. Listing now. — Crypticbot (operator) 04:17, 30 October 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete not notable, false info. posted, no other vaughan councillor posted, involved in crimminal activity, speading propaganda, racist against some ethnic groups (see http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/world01/canad-school.htm ), never served as national director of b'nai brith he was employed by b'nai brith in a minor role but was fired, fired from Ontario human rights commission, asked to leave and then he resigned as school trustee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Thivierr/rob, As I mentioned I am new here the changes I made I understood was the proper process. Wikipedia and yourself can do what ever you feel is correct but this page wit the incorrect info. about the National Director of b'nai brith was brought to my attention from the B'nai Brith as I am a member of b'nai brith Canada. Your other comment about the other change to another article was base on facts in local newspapers she admitted to this. It in not my oppinion. I beleive this Shefman article is posted for nothing more than to pursue his own politcal agenda — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob you were referring to the "reason why she left change" not the "he" "She" change. The "he" "she" change was a mistake, I corrected it. look in the history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob the change "reason why she left" was NOT my opinion I put the opinion based on local newspapers articles (they don't seem to be on the internet or I would give you link to them) Personally it doesn't matter to me, I just think the correct info. should be posted without a political agenda. Infact I like your idea of "future edits .... greater deal of scrutiny" I think all edits should need some kind of process to prove it is fact. I understand that this may be difficult to enforce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Delete The above is more false information posted from Alan Shefman's son. It's not a surpirse that all this info. came directly from the Shefman's. Delete Attempting to use this as a political tool, attempt to use to futher his so called human rights company, not notable (served only a few monthes as councillor) (no other Vaughan councillor posted that served for many more years.) If kept then info. should be confirmed with a reliable source (not confirmed with more false info. posted from the shefman's on other websites) and a more indepth description about his crimminal activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob you are accusing me of "ballot stuffing"? I am responding to false information posted not stuffing the ballot. pm-shef we will see if this article is taken down and if it is kept up then I will post the crimminal activity backed with documents from the York Regional Police, Toronto Police, RCMP and B'nai Brith Canada. You are tring to say that your father is notable enough to have an article posted but he has to get his son to write it and defend it. I am all for keeping it up as long as more notable people are kept up. How can you justify Alan Shefman being posted who served only a few months as councillor and no other current councillor or current or former Mayors posted (I posted former Mayor Lorna Jackson the other day) or even other people like Andrew Stronach (Frank Stronach's son and brother to Belinda) who got deleted the other day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Delete one more thing pm-shef the ONLY REASON you posted this article about your father was an attempt to use as political tool and to further his so called human rights company. If wikipedia doesn't mind people using them as a political pond and as free advertising for a questionable company then they should keep it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Though on another note, if anon votes don't count (which I wasn't aware of) then do we not have a unanimous "keep" decision? pm_shef 20:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC) reply
To Pm_shef I would send you a message privately but I don’t know how through here, so I will post it here. I am new and still don’t know how to use all the features here. I think this is getting a little ridiculous so this will be my last post here unless I am asked to answer a question.
It appears that we agree that if Alan Shefman’s article stays up then all the other members of Vaughan council should also be posted. You mentioned you will work on the others, I will also and we both could make changes as needed to all of them (that’s if councillors of a small city is notable enough for wikipedia which I think is questionable) I posted Lorna Jackson up and you appeared to agree with this posting. With all do respect I think we could agree that there are many prominent people in Vaughan much more deserving of an article than Alan Shefman. Among past Vaughan council members who do you think deserves a page? Susan Kadis and Mario Racco are already posted but not as past councillors as an MP and MPP. Do you think any or all of the following deserves an article. Former Councillors David Chapley, Bernie Green and/or Gino Rosati, what about former Mayor Garnet Williams? What about any other prominent Vaughan residents? The only others that I found posted are as following (there are probably more that I didn’t find). Former Chief of Toronto and York Region Police Julian Fantino (who is a personal friend) (wink, wink pm_shef), Former MPP Tina Molinari, Former Federal Tory Candidate Josh Cooper, Vaughan MP Maurizio Bevilacque, Vaughan MPP Greg Sorbara. You know wikipedia puts some derogatory remarks (that are based of facts) in articles, this can be found on the Vaughan page about Michael DiBiase and Julian Fantino’s page to name a couple. It should be no different with Alan Shefman’s.
On another note about your comment about Toronto Police don’t have jurisdiction in Vaughan. If a criminal act is committed within their jurisdiction (Toronto) the city that this person resides in (Vaughan) does not matter in certain criminal acts (for example some none violent crimes) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Pm_shef this will really be my last post. With a population of 235,000 Vaughan is still considered a small city, saying it’s the 10th largest in Ontario is not really saying much. In ten years or so it should be in the same category as say Mississauga. I think that Josh Cooper’s article was appropriate to be posted last year when he was a federal candidate but I think it should be deleted now, I think you would agree. I agree if Cooper deserves a page then Alan Shefman or almost anyone does but I let you know about Cooper because I was trying not to be biased. I will write an article about Garnet Williams, David Chapley, Bernie Green, Gino Rosati and maybe some others that I can think of that contributed to the growth of Vaughan if Vaughan Councillors including Alan Shefman stays up. I don’t mean this as an insult but you may be a little to young to realize this. Chapley and Green were the backbone of establishing the Thornhill we know today. Either Chapley or Green should be the Ward 5 councillor now, not Alan Shefman. If Alan Shefman’s page remains up then I will explain how he became Councillor. Notice how on Mario Racco’s page it mentions “under controversial circumstances” when he lost an election. Who you claim that Alan Shefman will challenge for the Liberal Provincial seat in 2007. Why doesn’t Alan Shefman challenge Susan Kadis for the Federal Liberal seat? He would have a better chance of beating her than Racco. It wasn’t that long ago that Racco beat Kadis. I winked because I know Fantino. I don’t have a grudge against Alan Shefman I just don’t think he deserves an article here or for that matter any Vaughan councilor, maybe the Mayor deserves a page. I live in Thornhill but I am sure you figured that out, last year my lawn had a green sign that kept disappearing. Lucky for me I put up a surveillance camera to see how they kept disappearing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
My comment about Mario Racco's page saying "controversial circumstances" was just saying that they put these kind of comments up not that Shefman or Kadis was involved in Racco's lose. You have got to agree that Alan Shefman became a councillor under what is mostlikely the most "controversial circumstances" ever in Thornhill. Chapley or Green should be the councillor based on there past accomplishments and past experience alone. Alan Shefman was quoted and admitted himself in an article in the Vaughan Citizen and the Thornhill Liberal that he wouldn't have become councillor if it wasn't for the interference of Susan Kadis. Let me correct you, Shefman didn't get a clear vote of support it was Kadis that got it for him. Please answer my question about why Alan Shefman would challange Mario Racco for the Liberal Provincial seat and not challenge a weaker (based on results when Racco and Kadis ran against each other) Susan Kadis for the Federal Liberal seat. I think you would agree the Federal Liberal seat is a lot more secure than the Provincial Liberal seat. Many expect that Tina Molinari will be re-elected Provinicialy regardless if Racco, Shefman or Kadis runs Provincially. Is it possible to post a video clip on here? The accomlishements of Chapley and Green far and away exceed the accomlishments of Shefman and Kadis. As I mentioned before if councillor articles are posted then I will post Chapley and Green who are much more deserving of articles than most of the current councillors. I really don't think councillor article are appropriate for here, the only ones that I think are appropriate are Susan Kadis as MP, Mario Racco as MPP, Mayor Michael DiBiase and former Mayors Lorna Jackson and Garnet Williams I think you have proven that the only reason you posted an article of Alan Shefman was politically motivated, you mentioned yourself that he is planning on challenging Mario Racco which he will not stand an chance of beating Racco. P.S. you did a good job in cleaning up the Lorna Jackson article. It looks great!
I am responding to the last comment about the criteria just to make sure I understand about criteria for Alan Shefman’s article. (1) I understand that as a city councillor of a smallish city his article does NOT meet the criteria (2) A Senior Director of the Ontario Human Rights Commission does meet the criteria but in order for this article to stay posted it must (A) be proven that Alan Shefman was director of communications and education for the Ontario Human Rights Commisission and (B) prove that this position was a Senior Director’s position. I have doubts that this position was and/or he was a Senior Director, lots of positions within Governement have “fancy” names to make them sound better than what they really are. I myself was a Census Commissioner for Statistics Canada which I can admit myself was a position that was nothing special or notable as every area in Canada had there own Census Commissioner with this title. I would estimate that there was about 450 to 500 people in Canada with this title during the 2001 Census. If Alan Shefman’s article stays then I will post an article of myself based on my “Census Commissioner” position with Statisitcs Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Good point I agree with your totally my profile does not belong here just as Alan Shefman's does not, please keep in mind that (a) Alan Shefman's article was posted by his son and (b) he never held a senior directors postion with the Ontario Human Rights Commisission he held a postion that is held by a few hundered people at any given time which is not a high-power nor high-profile position. If you are trying to say that his old position is more senior than his current position, let me ask you. Why would he take so many steps backwards in his career path, going from a so called "senior position" to self employed to school trustee to city councillor in a small city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
First thanks for correcting your mistake on Susan Kadis's page. It looks good now as what is posted is the truth. If Alan Shefman's page stays because of his so called "senior directors" position with the Ontario Human Rights Commission then I will post all 200 or so current "senior directors” and as many as I could find of past “senior directors” of the Ontario Human Rights Commission. By the way, I was employed by the Ontario Human Rights Commission in the early 1980’s. My title was “Assistant Deputy Minister” The over 200 people across the Province within the Commission with the title “Director” in there name reported to me and was my responsibility. You still did not answer my question about why would Alan Shefman take so many steps backwards in his career path if he held such a high power position with the Ontario Human Rights Commission. The answer is because it was not a senior position. I guess I could get my son to list my profile here as I held a more "senior" position (even though I don't think I am notiable enough to have an article) than the so called "senior directors"
Here is a link to the role of “Assistant Deputy Minister” this is from the province of Alberta, http://www.pao.gov.ab.ca/learning/corpexec/adm-profile/role-of-the-adm.htm , it is similar to Ontario, I just couldn’t find anything from Ontario on the internet. They don’t even list the “directors” because it is not a senior position and is to low in the “ranking of positions” “directors” position within the government is similar to being a department manager at a department store or a grocery store. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
I have added a little more information to this page. He was a member of York University's Board of Governors. I think he is notable enough to stay here. Keep. -- YUL89YYZ 22:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC) reply
I'm going to again agree with Bearcat, this is relevant and the director position is senior. In fact, there is only one person who occupies position of Director of Communication and Education. That person works directly under the Chief Commissioner (the head of the commission) so to say that Alan's position wasn't senior is foolish. Anyways, I added more information, specifically about the help he gave to the prosecution in the
Keegstra trial in Alberta and also info about the by-election in 2004 when he got elected... i thought that would make the article more relevant.
pm_shef
05:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
reply
I reveiwed all the comments and I would say that this article should be deleted User: 67.70.151.219
Note: The comment immediately above was the user's third-ever edit under the signed IP number -- #1 was to the article itself and #4 was to Lorna Jackson, the mayor of the very same city whose council includes Mr. Shefman. This edit pattern strongly implies that the user has a vested interest in the outcome of this debate. And considering that this user's second edit was to an obscure unelected political candidate who ran against Susan Kadis (yep, her again) in the 2004 election, I'm now convinced that this was essentially a partisan political attack from the outset.
I'm hereby invoking admin power to close the current debate as an irreparably tainted discussion from which a viable and honest consensus cannot realistically be determined. I will renominate the article on procedural grounds for a clean discussion. Bearcat 08:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC) reply
The result of the debate was Closed and resubmitted for new debate; the current debate has turned into a partisan political argument which has grossly clouded the basic issue. Bearcat 09:02, 5 November 2005 (UTC) reply
This afd nomination was incomplete. Listing now. — Crypticbot (operator) 04:17, 30 October 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete not notable, false info. posted, no other vaughan councillor posted, involved in crimminal activity, speading propaganda, racist against some ethnic groups (see http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/world01/canad-school.htm ), never served as national director of b'nai brith he was employed by b'nai brith in a minor role but was fired, fired from Ontario human rights commission, asked to leave and then he resigned as school trustee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Thivierr/rob, As I mentioned I am new here the changes I made I understood was the proper process. Wikipedia and yourself can do what ever you feel is correct but this page wit the incorrect info. about the National Director of b'nai brith was brought to my attention from the B'nai Brith as I am a member of b'nai brith Canada. Your other comment about the other change to another article was base on facts in local newspapers she admitted to this. It in not my oppinion. I beleive this Shefman article is posted for nothing more than to pursue his own politcal agenda — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob you were referring to the "reason why she left change" not the "he" "She" change. The "he" "she" change was a mistake, I corrected it. look in the history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob the change "reason why she left" was NOT my opinion I put the opinion based on local newspapers articles (they don't seem to be on the internet or I would give you link to them) Personally it doesn't matter to me, I just think the correct info. should be posted without a political agenda. Infact I like your idea of "future edits .... greater deal of scrutiny" I think all edits should need some kind of process to prove it is fact. I understand that this may be difficult to enforce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Delete The above is more false information posted from Alan Shefman's son. It's not a surpirse that all this info. came directly from the Shefman's. Delete Attempting to use this as a political tool, attempt to use to futher his so called human rights company, not notable (served only a few monthes as councillor) (no other Vaughan councillor posted that served for many more years.) If kept then info. should be confirmed with a reliable source (not confirmed with more false info. posted from the shefman's on other websites) and a more indepth description about his crimminal activity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Rob you are accusing me of "ballot stuffing"? I am responding to false information posted not stuffing the ballot. pm-shef we will see if this article is taken down and if it is kept up then I will post the crimminal activity backed with documents from the York Regional Police, Toronto Police, RCMP and B'nai Brith Canada. You are tring to say that your father is notable enough to have an article posted but he has to get his son to write it and defend it. I am all for keeping it up as long as more notable people are kept up. How can you justify Alan Shefman being posted who served only a few months as councillor and no other current councillor or current or former Mayors posted (I posted former Mayor Lorna Jackson the other day) or even other people like Andrew Stronach (Frank Stronach's son and brother to Belinda) who got deleted the other day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Delete one more thing pm-shef the ONLY REASON you posted this article about your father was an attempt to use as political tool and to further his so called human rights company. If wikipedia doesn't mind people using them as a political pond and as free advertising for a questionable company then they should keep it up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Though on another note, if anon votes don't count (which I wasn't aware of) then do we not have a unanimous "keep" decision? pm_shef 20:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC) reply
To Pm_shef I would send you a message privately but I don’t know how through here, so I will post it here. I am new and still don’t know how to use all the features here. I think this is getting a little ridiculous so this will be my last post here unless I am asked to answer a question.
It appears that we agree that if Alan Shefman’s article stays up then all the other members of Vaughan council should also be posted. You mentioned you will work on the others, I will also and we both could make changes as needed to all of them (that’s if councillors of a small city is notable enough for wikipedia which I think is questionable) I posted Lorna Jackson up and you appeared to agree with this posting. With all do respect I think we could agree that there are many prominent people in Vaughan much more deserving of an article than Alan Shefman. Among past Vaughan council members who do you think deserves a page? Susan Kadis and Mario Racco are already posted but not as past councillors as an MP and MPP. Do you think any or all of the following deserves an article. Former Councillors David Chapley, Bernie Green and/or Gino Rosati, what about former Mayor Garnet Williams? What about any other prominent Vaughan residents? The only others that I found posted are as following (there are probably more that I didn’t find). Former Chief of Toronto and York Region Police Julian Fantino (who is a personal friend) (wink, wink pm_shef), Former MPP Tina Molinari, Former Federal Tory Candidate Josh Cooper, Vaughan MP Maurizio Bevilacque, Vaughan MPP Greg Sorbara. You know wikipedia puts some derogatory remarks (that are based of facts) in articles, this can be found on the Vaughan page about Michael DiBiase and Julian Fantino’s page to name a couple. It should be no different with Alan Shefman’s.
On another note about your comment about Toronto Police don’t have jurisdiction in Vaughan. If a criminal act is committed within their jurisdiction (Toronto) the city that this person resides in (Vaughan) does not matter in certain criminal acts (for example some none violent crimes) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Pm_shef this will really be my last post. With a population of 235,000 Vaughan is still considered a small city, saying it’s the 10th largest in Ontario is not really saying much. In ten years or so it should be in the same category as say Mississauga. I think that Josh Cooper’s article was appropriate to be posted last year when he was a federal candidate but I think it should be deleted now, I think you would agree. I agree if Cooper deserves a page then Alan Shefman or almost anyone does but I let you know about Cooper because I was trying not to be biased. I will write an article about Garnet Williams, David Chapley, Bernie Green, Gino Rosati and maybe some others that I can think of that contributed to the growth of Vaughan if Vaughan Councillors including Alan Shefman stays up. I don’t mean this as an insult but you may be a little to young to realize this. Chapley and Green were the backbone of establishing the Thornhill we know today. Either Chapley or Green should be the Ward 5 councillor now, not Alan Shefman. If Alan Shefman’s page remains up then I will explain how he became Councillor. Notice how on Mario Racco’s page it mentions “under controversial circumstances” when he lost an election. Who you claim that Alan Shefman will challenge for the Liberal Provincial seat in 2007. Why doesn’t Alan Shefman challenge Susan Kadis for the Federal Liberal seat? He would have a better chance of beating her than Racco. It wasn’t that long ago that Racco beat Kadis. I winked because I know Fantino. I don’t have a grudge against Alan Shefman I just don’t think he deserves an article here or for that matter any Vaughan councilor, maybe the Mayor deserves a page. I live in Thornhill but I am sure you figured that out, last year my lawn had a green sign that kept disappearing. Lucky for me I put up a surveillance camera to see how they kept disappearing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
My comment about Mario Racco's page saying "controversial circumstances" was just saying that they put these kind of comments up not that Shefman or Kadis was involved in Racco's lose. You have got to agree that Alan Shefman became a councillor under what is mostlikely the most "controversial circumstances" ever in Thornhill. Chapley or Green should be the councillor based on there past accomplishments and past experience alone. Alan Shefman was quoted and admitted himself in an article in the Vaughan Citizen and the Thornhill Liberal that he wouldn't have become councillor if it wasn't for the interference of Susan Kadis. Let me correct you, Shefman didn't get a clear vote of support it was Kadis that got it for him. Please answer my question about why Alan Shefman would challange Mario Racco for the Liberal Provincial seat and not challenge a weaker (based on results when Racco and Kadis ran against each other) Susan Kadis for the Federal Liberal seat. I think you would agree the Federal Liberal seat is a lot more secure than the Provincial Liberal seat. Many expect that Tina Molinari will be re-elected Provinicialy regardless if Racco, Shefman or Kadis runs Provincially. Is it possible to post a video clip on here? The accomlishements of Chapley and Green far and away exceed the accomlishments of Shefman and Kadis. As I mentioned before if councillor articles are posted then I will post Chapley and Green who are much more deserving of articles than most of the current councillors. I really don't think councillor article are appropriate for here, the only ones that I think are appropriate are Susan Kadis as MP, Mario Racco as MPP, Mayor Michael DiBiase and former Mayors Lorna Jackson and Garnet Williams I think you have proven that the only reason you posted an article of Alan Shefman was politically motivated, you mentioned yourself that he is planning on challenging Mario Racco which he will not stand an chance of beating Racco. P.S. you did a good job in cleaning up the Lorna Jackson article. It looks great!
I am responding to the last comment about the criteria just to make sure I understand about criteria for Alan Shefman’s article. (1) I understand that as a city councillor of a smallish city his article does NOT meet the criteria (2) A Senior Director of the Ontario Human Rights Commission does meet the criteria but in order for this article to stay posted it must (A) be proven that Alan Shefman was director of communications and education for the Ontario Human Rights Commisission and (B) prove that this position was a Senior Director’s position. I have doubts that this position was and/or he was a Senior Director, lots of positions within Governement have “fancy” names to make them sound better than what they really are. I myself was a Census Commissioner for Statistics Canada which I can admit myself was a position that was nothing special or notable as every area in Canada had there own Census Commissioner with this title. I would estimate that there was about 450 to 500 people in Canada with this title during the 2001 Census. If Alan Shefman’s article stays then I will post an article of myself based on my “Census Commissioner” position with Statisitcs Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
Good point I agree with your totally my profile does not belong here just as Alan Shefman's does not, please keep in mind that (a) Alan Shefman's article was posted by his son and (b) he never held a senior directors postion with the Ontario Human Rights Commisission he held a postion that is held by a few hundered people at any given time which is not a high-power nor high-profile position. If you are trying to say that his old position is more senior than his current position, let me ask you. Why would he take so many steps backwards in his career path, going from a so called "senior position" to self employed to school trustee to city councillor in a small city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
First thanks for correcting your mistake on Susan Kadis's page. It looks good now as what is posted is the truth. If Alan Shefman's page stays because of his so called "senior directors" position with the Ontario Human Rights Commission then I will post all 200 or so current "senior directors” and as many as I could find of past “senior directors” of the Ontario Human Rights Commission. By the way, I was employed by the Ontario Human Rights Commission in the early 1980’s. My title was “Assistant Deputy Minister” The over 200 people across the Province within the Commission with the title “Director” in there name reported to me and was my responsibility. You still did not answer my question about why would Alan Shefman take so many steps backwards in his career path if he held such a high power position with the Ontario Human Rights Commission. The answer is because it was not a senior position. I guess I could get my son to list my profile here as I held a more "senior" position (even though I don't think I am notiable enough to have an article) than the so called "senior directors"
Here is a link to the role of “Assistant Deputy Minister” this is from the province of Alberta, http://www.pao.gov.ab.ca/learning/corpexec/adm-profile/role-of-the-adm.htm , it is similar to Ontario, I just couldn’t find anything from Ontario on the internet. They don’t even list the “directors” because it is not a senior position and is to low in the “ranking of positions” “directors” position within the government is similar to being a department manager at a department store or a grocery store. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.231.242.98 ( talk • contribs)
I have added a little more information to this page. He was a member of York University's Board of Governors. I think he is notable enough to stay here. Keep. -- YUL89YYZ 22:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC) reply
I'm going to again agree with Bearcat, this is relevant and the director position is senior. In fact, there is only one person who occupies position of Director of Communication and Education. That person works directly under the Chief Commissioner (the head of the commission) so to say that Alan's position wasn't senior is foolish. Anyways, I added more information, specifically about the help he gave to the prosecution in the
Keegstra trial in Alberta and also info about the by-election in 2004 when he got elected... i thought that would make the article more relevant.
pm_shef
05:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
reply
I reveiwed all the comments and I would say that this article should be deleted User: 67.70.151.219
Note: The comment immediately above was the user's third-ever edit under the signed IP number -- #1 was to the article itself and #4 was to Lorna Jackson, the mayor of the very same city whose council includes Mr. Shefman. This edit pattern strongly implies that the user has a vested interest in the outcome of this debate. And considering that this user's second edit was to an obscure unelected political candidate who ran against Susan Kadis (yep, her again) in the 2004 election, I'm now convinced that this was essentially a partisan political attack from the outset.
I'm hereby invoking admin power to close the current debate as an irreparably tainted discussion from which a viable and honest consensus cannot realistically be determined. I will renominate the article on procedural grounds for a clean discussion. Bearcat 08:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC) reply