- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Daniel ( talk) 17:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Al Yalayis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by a now-blocked sock, one of a number of entirely misleading geographical articles about Dubai sourced by the author from a statistical database and then dressed up to look like 'places', this article was submitted to AfC by a sock of the blocked user and then accepted in AGF. However, Al Yalayis is a mostly uninhabited area of mostly desert at the edge of which we find a couple of newer housing developments not named Al Yalayis. Not notable per WP:GNG, no RS on offer and a fail of WP:GEO as a community or place - quite rightly tagged as OR and needing citations, it's really not going to get 'em because is not actually a place at all... Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 04:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
Geography and
United Arab Emirates.
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
04:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - As I mentioned earlier, the article does not inherit bad faith from the sock. More importantly, Al Yalayis is populated and recognized legally (apparently) as a community. It could be very tiny with 35 people like Al Kifaf, and it would meet WP:GEOLAND. The housing development Mira definitely does not meet WP:GNG, but as long as Al Yalayis is a legally recognized place, we keep this article. I would delete if either of the two are shown:
- 1) Al Yalayis is a statistical area not a community as the DSC government source indicates; edit and fix List of communities in Dubai
- 2) Dubai does not have actually have any legal subdivisions beyond municipality-level; move to Al Qudra, remove all the non-GNG communities in List of communities in Dubai
- 2) There is no such legal subdivision called Al Yalayis; there is only Al Yalayis 1, Al Yalayis 2 ... Al Yalayis 5; this article must be split into 5 articles.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
11:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- They.are.empty.desert! All bar Yalayis 1/2 which straddle the Mira housing development and so are only mainly empty desert. There is no COMMUNITY called Yalayis. Many of the non-GNG communities in that list were put there by the author. There is no township/village/inhabited place called Yalayis that defines any legal settlement. That is my entire point - it's essentially fallacious. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
11:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- On the contrary, from what it looks like the UAE is divided into Emirates which is then divided into municipalities which is then subdivided into communities; of which Al Yalayis 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are. I'm referring more to the
DSC source and the
DE external link. While citypopulation doesn't demonstrate
WP:GEOLAND, it verifies my theory that communities are the 3rd order administrative division and presume GNG via GEOLAND. And obviously, they are populated and not an empty desert, even Al Yalayis 3 is populated.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
13:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- But they're really not. They're desert areas - you won't be able to go to a bank in Yalayis 3, let alone a post office or shop. It's in the desert. Dunes. Camels. Maybe the odd camel camp or outlying villa or 2. There are no neighbourhoods, no services, no 'communities' and certainly no notability. The article relates to a geographic database entry that has no bearing on the reality - there is no 'place' in Dubai called Yalayis. You'll never go to meet Bob in Yalayis, pop around to see Mary who comes from Yalayis or find it mentioned in any history of Dubai, any list of places where notable people come from or in fact any book about Dubai. Because it's desert. ONE day, you'll find a to-be-developed neighbourhood of low cost houses for UAE Nationals in Al Yalayis 5, but it's not been built - or even started yet. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
15:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Still missing my point on it meeting WP:GEOLAND, none of these are reasons to delete. EmeraldRange ( talk/ contribs) 17:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- But they're really not. They're desert areas - you won't be able to go to a bank in Yalayis 3, let alone a post office or shop. It's in the desert. Dunes. Camels. Maybe the odd camel camp or outlying villa or 2. There are no neighbourhoods, no services, no 'communities' and certainly no notability. The article relates to a geographic database entry that has no bearing on the reality - there is no 'place' in Dubai called Yalayis. You'll never go to meet Bob in Yalayis, pop around to see Mary who comes from Yalayis or find it mentioned in any history of Dubai, any list of places where notable people come from or in fact any book about Dubai. Because it's desert. ONE day, you'll find a to-be-developed neighbourhood of low cost houses for UAE Nationals in Al Yalayis 5, but it's not been built - or even started yet. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
15:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- On the contrary, from what it looks like the UAE is divided into Emirates which is then divided into municipalities which is then subdivided into communities; of which Al Yalayis 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are. I'm referring more to the
DSC source and the
DE external link. While citypopulation doesn't demonstrate
WP:GEOLAND, it verifies my theory that communities are the 3rd order administrative division and presume GNG via GEOLAND. And obviously, they are populated and not an empty desert, even Al Yalayis 3 is populated.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
13:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- They.are.empty.desert! All bar Yalayis 1/2 which straddle the Mira housing development and so are only mainly empty desert. There is no COMMUNITY called Yalayis. Many of the non-GNG communities in that list were put there by the author. There is no township/village/inhabited place called Yalayis that defines any legal settlement. That is my entire point - it's essentially fallacious. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
11:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we need to hear from other editors about this article and how GEOLAND applies to it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 01:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Keep. More credible sources just need to be added to the article because just by a simple google search, there several reliable sources that can be added. Micheal Kaluba ( talk) 15:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Please list these sources you have found. LibStar ( talk) 23:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 21:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Question: Is there a relevant wikiproject, perhaps a geographical one, whose members could contribute some insight here? Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ Newyorkbrad, the nominator, Alexandermcnabb, lives there for what it's worth. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 03:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Daniel ( talk) 17:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Al Yalayis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Created by a now-blocked sock, one of a number of entirely misleading geographical articles about Dubai sourced by the author from a statistical database and then dressed up to look like 'places', this article was submitted to AfC by a sock of the blocked user and then accepted in AGF. However, Al Yalayis is a mostly uninhabited area of mostly desert at the edge of which we find a couple of newer housing developments not named Al Yalayis. Not notable per WP:GNG, no RS on offer and a fail of WP:GEO as a community or place - quite rightly tagged as OR and needing citations, it's really not going to get 'em because is not actually a place at all... Alexandermcnabb ( talk) 04:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
Geography and
United Arab Emirates.
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
04:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - As I mentioned earlier, the article does not inherit bad faith from the sock. More importantly, Al Yalayis is populated and recognized legally (apparently) as a community. It could be very tiny with 35 people like Al Kifaf, and it would meet WP:GEOLAND. The housing development Mira definitely does not meet WP:GNG, but as long as Al Yalayis is a legally recognized place, we keep this article. I would delete if either of the two are shown:
- 1) Al Yalayis is a statistical area not a community as the DSC government source indicates; edit and fix List of communities in Dubai
- 2) Dubai does not have actually have any legal subdivisions beyond municipality-level; move to Al Qudra, remove all the non-GNG communities in List of communities in Dubai
- 2) There is no such legal subdivision called Al Yalayis; there is only Al Yalayis 1, Al Yalayis 2 ... Al Yalayis 5; this article must be split into 5 articles.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
11:44, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- They.are.empty.desert! All bar Yalayis 1/2 which straddle the Mira housing development and so are only mainly empty desert. There is no COMMUNITY called Yalayis. Many of the non-GNG communities in that list were put there by the author. There is no township/village/inhabited place called Yalayis that defines any legal settlement. That is my entire point - it's essentially fallacious. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
11:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- On the contrary, from what it looks like the UAE is divided into Emirates which is then divided into municipalities which is then subdivided into communities; of which Al Yalayis 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are. I'm referring more to the
DSC source and the
DE external link. While citypopulation doesn't demonstrate
WP:GEOLAND, it verifies my theory that communities are the 3rd order administrative division and presume GNG via GEOLAND. And obviously, they are populated and not an empty desert, even Al Yalayis 3 is populated.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
13:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- But they're really not. They're desert areas - you won't be able to go to a bank in Yalayis 3, let alone a post office or shop. It's in the desert. Dunes. Camels. Maybe the odd camel camp or outlying villa or 2. There are no neighbourhoods, no services, no 'communities' and certainly no notability. The article relates to a geographic database entry that has no bearing on the reality - there is no 'place' in Dubai called Yalayis. You'll never go to meet Bob in Yalayis, pop around to see Mary who comes from Yalayis or find it mentioned in any history of Dubai, any list of places where notable people come from or in fact any book about Dubai. Because it's desert. ONE day, you'll find a to-be-developed neighbourhood of low cost houses for UAE Nationals in Al Yalayis 5, but it's not been built - or even started yet. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
15:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Still missing my point on it meeting WP:GEOLAND, none of these are reasons to delete. EmeraldRange ( talk/ contribs) 17:20, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- But they're really not. They're desert areas - you won't be able to go to a bank in Yalayis 3, let alone a post office or shop. It's in the desert. Dunes. Camels. Maybe the odd camel camp or outlying villa or 2. There are no neighbourhoods, no services, no 'communities' and certainly no notability. The article relates to a geographic database entry that has no bearing on the reality - there is no 'place' in Dubai called Yalayis. You'll never go to meet Bob in Yalayis, pop around to see Mary who comes from Yalayis or find it mentioned in any history of Dubai, any list of places where notable people come from or in fact any book about Dubai. Because it's desert. ONE day, you'll find a to-be-developed neighbourhood of low cost houses for UAE Nationals in Al Yalayis 5, but it's not been built - or even started yet. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
15:03, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- On the contrary, from what it looks like the UAE is divided into Emirates which is then divided into municipalities which is then subdivided into communities; of which Al Yalayis 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 are. I'm referring more to the
DSC source and the
DE external link. While citypopulation doesn't demonstrate
WP:GEOLAND, it verifies my theory that communities are the 3rd order administrative division and presume GNG via GEOLAND. And obviously, they are populated and not an empty desert, even Al Yalayis 3 is populated.
EmeraldRange (
talk/
contribs)
13:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- They.are.empty.desert! All bar Yalayis 1/2 which straddle the Mira housing development and so are only mainly empty desert. There is no COMMUNITY called Yalayis. Many of the non-GNG communities in that list were put there by the author. There is no township/village/inhabited place called Yalayis that defines any legal settlement. That is my entire point - it's essentially fallacious. Best
Alexandermcnabb (
talk)
11:58, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as we need to hear from other editors about this article and how GEOLAND applies to it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:26, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 01:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Keep. More credible sources just need to be added to the article because just by a simple google search, there several reliable sources that can be added. Micheal Kaluba ( talk) 15:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Please list these sources you have found. LibStar ( talk) 23:16, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel ( talk) 21:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Question: Is there a relevant wikiproject, perhaps a geographical one, whose members could contribute some insight here? Newyorkbrad ( talk) 23:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ Newyorkbrad, the nominator, Alexandermcnabb, lives there for what it's worth. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 03:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.