- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 18:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
1909 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team
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- 1909 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
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Southwest Texas State did not play football in 1909. There is no reference to football in the 1910 Pegagogue yearbook [1]. Also, Baylor did not play Southwest Texas State. [2] Also, we can look at newspaper at the time and see that Baylor played San Marcos Academy. [3] Places like https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/baylor/1909-schedule.html incorrectly attribute the game to Texas State and that led to the error. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 16:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/62#page/n137/mode/2up
- ^ 2018 Texas State Football Media Guide (PDF), p. 154
- ^ "San Marcos Defeated 55 to 0 by Baylor on Waco Field", Houston Post, Houston, TX, p. 3, October 5, 1909
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 May 28. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 16:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment This discussion may be relevant: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1905 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 19:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Agreed, but this page was not deleted with the others. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 20:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. User:Americanfootballupdater makes a strong case, and SR/College Football has many errors. If SR/College Football were the sole source claiming that the game was against Texas State (known in 1909 as Southwest Texas State), I'd easily support the AfD. However, what concerns me is that the school itself published a supposedly authoritative account of the program's history ( here), and that account also asserts (at p. 127) that Texas State played football in 1909 and lost to Baylor by a 55-0 score. See also p. 131 reporting an 0-1 record for the 1909 season. I suspect Americanfootballupdate is probably correct, and I would be ok with the article being deleted without prejudice. However, it would be nice if someone could contact the Texas State athletic department (perhaps the sports information director?) to see if they have any information that solves this puzzle. Cbl62 ( talk) 01:02, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. To Cbl62's point, I already contacted the SID, Rick Poulter, and that is why the 2018 Media Guide does not include this result. I included this reference above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Americanfootballupdater ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Forgot to sign, I also think that there was no team in 1904, but he did not want to remove those results and "change" the history and starting date of the program. In the 1905 Pedagogue Yearbook [1], there is a picture of a football with a question mark for members. In the 1907 Pedagogue Yearbook [2] is the first team photo but I could not find any results in local newspapers. In the 1910 Pedagogue Yearbook [3], again there is no reference to football. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 13:48, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. Also, note the Baylor yearbook [4] Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 15:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/55#page/n97/mode/2up/search/foot
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/57#page/n107/mode/2up/search/foot
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/62#page/n131/mode/2up
-
^
Round-Up, Waco, TX, 1910, p. 181, retrieved May 29, 2019
{{ citation}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher ( link)
- Delete. I am persuaded by Americanfootballupdater's diligent research and documentation that there was no 1909 team. Cbl62 ( talk) 00:12, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Delete that does seem to be the case... but even if there were a 1909 team, there are no references in reliable sources to meet notability guidelines. If any are eventually found, the article can come back. But until then (if ever), the article should be deleted.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 12:51, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per Americanfootballupdater's research and arguments. There was no 1909 Bobcat team, and Baylor played against a team from a different San Marcos-based school that year. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 20:52, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete while it is certainly possible to have an article for a season not played, that is not the case here. Not only do we not have reliable sources that a season/game was played, we now seem to have confirmation that it was not played. Well done.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 13:16, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus ( talk, contributions) 18:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
1909 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- 1909 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Southwest Texas State did not play football in 1909. There is no reference to football in the 1910 Pegagogue yearbook [1]. Also, Baylor did not play Southwest Texas State. [2] Also, we can look at newspaper at the time and see that Baylor played San Marcos Academy. [3] Places like https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/baylor/1909-schedule.html incorrectly attribute the game to Texas State and that led to the error. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 16:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/62#page/n137/mode/2up
- ^ 2018 Texas State Football Media Guide (PDF), p. 154
- ^ "San Marcos Defeated 55 to 0 by Baylor on Waco Field", Houston Post, Houston, TX, p. 3, October 5, 1909
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log ( step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 May 28. — cyberbot I Talk to my owner:Online 16:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:00, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment This discussion may be relevant: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1905 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 19:57, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment Agreed, but this page was not deleted with the others. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 20:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. User:Americanfootballupdater makes a strong case, and SR/College Football has many errors. If SR/College Football were the sole source claiming that the game was against Texas State (known in 1909 as Southwest Texas State), I'd easily support the AfD. However, what concerns me is that the school itself published a supposedly authoritative account of the program's history ( here), and that account also asserts (at p. 127) that Texas State played football in 1909 and lost to Baylor by a 55-0 score. See also p. 131 reporting an 0-1 record for the 1909 season. I suspect Americanfootballupdate is probably correct, and I would be ok with the article being deleted without prejudice. However, it would be nice if someone could contact the Texas State athletic department (perhaps the sports information director?) to see if they have any information that solves this puzzle. Cbl62 ( talk) 01:02, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. To Cbl62's point, I already contacted the SID, Rick Poulter, and that is why the 2018 Media Guide does not include this result. I included this reference above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Americanfootballupdater ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Forgot to sign, I also think that there was no team in 1904, but he did not want to remove those results and "change" the history and starting date of the program. In the 1905 Pedagogue Yearbook [1], there is a picture of a football with a question mark for members. In the 1907 Pedagogue Yearbook [2] is the first team photo but I could not find any results in local newspapers. In the 1910 Pedagogue Yearbook [3], again there is no reference to football. Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 13:48, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
- Comment. Also, note the Baylor yearbook [4] Americanfootballupdater ( talk) 15:59, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
References
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/55#page/n97/mode/2up/search/foot
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/57#page/n107/mode/2up/search/foot
- ^ http://exhibits.library.txstate.edu/univarchives/viewer/show/62#page/n131/mode/2up
-
^
Round-Up, Waco, TX, 1910, p. 181, retrieved May 29, 2019
{{ citation}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher ( link)
- Delete. I am persuaded by Americanfootballupdater's diligent research and documentation that there was no 1909 team. Cbl62 ( talk) 00:12, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Delete that does seem to be the case... but even if there were a 1909 team, there are no references in reliable sources to meet notability guidelines. If any are eventually found, the article can come back. But until then (if ever), the article should be deleted.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 12:51, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per Americanfootballupdater's research and arguments. There was no 1909 Bobcat team, and Baylor played against a team from a different San Marcos-based school that year. Ejgreen77 ( talk) 20:52, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- Delete while it is certainly possible to have an article for a season not played, that is not the case here. Not only do we not have reliable sources that a season/game was played, we now seem to have confirmation that it was not played. Well done.-- Paul McDonald ( talk) 13:16, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.