I have attempted to improve the userbox for the Philadelhia Phillies {{ User:UBX/MLB-Phillies}} using a free image of the team logo (logo image here). User:Tom Danson has consistently reverted. Although he agrees the logo itself is free, he wants to maintain uniformity among all MLB userboxes, and since not every team uses a {{ PD-textlogo}}-qualified free logo, he has consistently eliminated any userboxes with logos.
The issue has also come up in the past in relation to the Yankees userbox (see here) that I know of.
Wikiproject baseball has no policy mandating uniformity of userboxes that I know of -- at least I've asked at their talk page and no one has heard of any such policy.
So I'd like commentary on whether the use of verifiably free images in userboxes is acceptable, absent some wikiproject policy to the contrary. BillTunell ( talk) 17:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
I suppose my two cents are worth something. FWIW, I see no problem with a team having more than one userbox. We have ribbons for barnstars, multiple ways to display same; some teams in other sports have several infoboxes. All I ask is that if more than one userbox for the Phillies exists that they be displayed together as options from which to choose, and that they are added to the WikiProject page so that members thereof can use them more easily. If we have a set of 30 MLB infoboxes using the "PHI"/"NYY"/"MIN" infoboxes, that is very valuable, because MANY, many teams use that same format, regardless of sport. I use those particular boxes on my own userpage, but would probably delete them if they were not consistently formatted. That point being granted, I see a lot of intrinsic value in using the PD-text logo, because it identifies Phillies fans, through their userbox, with WP:PHILLIES, which uses the logo on talk page tags. In sum, I think having multiple choices, all offered as options, is the best goal. I believe that the current userbox should stay as is to avoid disruption among editors who use this in consistent format, and that a new userbox should be created in the UBX namespace as an option for those teams which do have PD-text logos. KV5 ( Talk • Phils) 20:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, if the issue here isn't about whether or not the logos are copyrighted, then I don't really care as long as we can make alternate userboxes with the logos, so if Tom Danson wants to standardize them without the logo, let him, as long as we make ones that have the logo too where possible. I think most teams' logos would have a similar copyright status to that of the Yankees, and it seems like more people would prefer the userboxes with the actual logo instead of just the text, so IMO they should be the standard one, with an option for just displaying the text. Is there a way to do this with one userbox through some sort of template parameter to enable or disable the showing of the logo? Or maybe it could just be done by having one userbox be a subpage of the other, e.g. {{ User:UBX/MLB-Yankees/nologo}} to display the box without the logo, or the other way around. If we could do it with a template parameter, that would eliminate the two-userboxes issue. -- BlastOButter42 See Hear Speak 05:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Funny that this debate should arise and I get invited to it, because just the other day I was thinking how I wish professional sports teams' userboxes were more aesthetically appealing. Call me vain, but I much prefer to PD-logo userbox to the "standardized" PHI one. Personal preferences aside, I see nothing wrong with having both to choose from. For those who choose PHI, it's still an easily identifiable team userbox to anyone who knows anything about MLB baseball. Likewise, the PD-logo userbox is (IMO) easier to identify much more quickly via the "P" symbol. I'm switching my own userbox over to the PD-logo version. One last note: I concur with BlastoButter42 in that "if Tom Danson wants to standardize them without the logo, let him, as long as we make ones that have the logo too where possible." Wikipedia is a democracy, and as such, the people should have a choice as to which userbox they feel best represents them. Good luck with the rest of the debate. Jrcla2 talk 17:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The logo in question is NOT in public domain and is copyrighted from 1992. I corrected the tag as the '50s logo is not the same as the one currently used. JaMikePA ( talk) 20:09, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
In a new incarnation of an old battle, the colors in this userbox have been changed from flat-out wrong to correct and in line with sitewide policy. All content on Wikipedia is expected to comply with accessibility guidelines. I have removed the blue text on a white background because it is specifically mentioned as problematic in that guideline: "Be aware of the contrast of both plain text and the red/blue/purple link text with the background and avoid clashes where possible (such as blue writing on a red background)" (emphasis mine). I am fully cognizant that the Phillies utilize blue officially as a color, and it is used in the border, but it absolutely cannot, per policy, be used as a text color on a red background. The white is completely acceptable since the team's primary colors are red and white anyway. — KV5 • Talk • 23:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
I have attempted to improve the userbox for the Philadelhia Phillies {{ User:UBX/MLB-Phillies}} using a free image of the team logo (logo image here). User:Tom Danson has consistently reverted. Although he agrees the logo itself is free, he wants to maintain uniformity among all MLB userboxes, and since not every team uses a {{ PD-textlogo}}-qualified free logo, he has consistently eliminated any userboxes with logos.
The issue has also come up in the past in relation to the Yankees userbox (see here) that I know of.
Wikiproject baseball has no policy mandating uniformity of userboxes that I know of -- at least I've asked at their talk page and no one has heard of any such policy.
So I'd like commentary on whether the use of verifiably free images in userboxes is acceptable, absent some wikiproject policy to the contrary. BillTunell ( talk) 17:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
I suppose my two cents are worth something. FWIW, I see no problem with a team having more than one userbox. We have ribbons for barnstars, multiple ways to display same; some teams in other sports have several infoboxes. All I ask is that if more than one userbox for the Phillies exists that they be displayed together as options from which to choose, and that they are added to the WikiProject page so that members thereof can use them more easily. If we have a set of 30 MLB infoboxes using the "PHI"/"NYY"/"MIN" infoboxes, that is very valuable, because MANY, many teams use that same format, regardless of sport. I use those particular boxes on my own userpage, but would probably delete them if they were not consistently formatted. That point being granted, I see a lot of intrinsic value in using the PD-text logo, because it identifies Phillies fans, through their userbox, with WP:PHILLIES, which uses the logo on talk page tags. In sum, I think having multiple choices, all offered as options, is the best goal. I believe that the current userbox should stay as is to avoid disruption among editors who use this in consistent format, and that a new userbox should be created in the UBX namespace as an option for those teams which do have PD-text logos. KV5 ( Talk • Phils) 20:15, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, if the issue here isn't about whether or not the logos are copyrighted, then I don't really care as long as we can make alternate userboxes with the logos, so if Tom Danson wants to standardize them without the logo, let him, as long as we make ones that have the logo too where possible. I think most teams' logos would have a similar copyright status to that of the Yankees, and it seems like more people would prefer the userboxes with the actual logo instead of just the text, so IMO they should be the standard one, with an option for just displaying the text. Is there a way to do this with one userbox through some sort of template parameter to enable or disable the showing of the logo? Or maybe it could just be done by having one userbox be a subpage of the other, e.g. {{ User:UBX/MLB-Yankees/nologo}} to display the box without the logo, or the other way around. If we could do it with a template parameter, that would eliminate the two-userboxes issue. -- BlastOButter42 See Hear Speak 05:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Funny that this debate should arise and I get invited to it, because just the other day I was thinking how I wish professional sports teams' userboxes were more aesthetically appealing. Call me vain, but I much prefer to PD-logo userbox to the "standardized" PHI one. Personal preferences aside, I see nothing wrong with having both to choose from. For those who choose PHI, it's still an easily identifiable team userbox to anyone who knows anything about MLB baseball. Likewise, the PD-logo userbox is (IMO) easier to identify much more quickly via the "P" symbol. I'm switching my own userbox over to the PD-logo version. One last note: I concur with BlastoButter42 in that "if Tom Danson wants to standardize them without the logo, let him, as long as we make ones that have the logo too where possible." Wikipedia is a democracy, and as such, the people should have a choice as to which userbox they feel best represents them. Good luck with the rest of the debate. Jrcla2 talk 17:51, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The logo in question is NOT in public domain and is copyrighted from 1992. I corrected the tag as the '50s logo is not the same as the one currently used. JaMikePA ( talk) 20:09, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
In a new incarnation of an old battle, the colors in this userbox have been changed from flat-out wrong to correct and in line with sitewide policy. All content on Wikipedia is expected to comply with accessibility guidelines. I have removed the blue text on a white background because it is specifically mentioned as problematic in that guideline: "Be aware of the contrast of both plain text and the red/blue/purple link text with the background and avoid clashes where possible (such as blue writing on a red background)" (emphasis mine). I am fully cognizant that the Phillies utilize blue officially as a color, and it is used in the border, but it absolutely cannot, per policy, be used as a text color on a red background. The white is completely acceptable since the team's primary colors are red and white anyway. — KV5 • Talk • 23:07, 27 March 2011 (UTC)