Hello, Ssr!
My name is Daniel, and I'm a senior at Harvard writing an undergraduate thesis on Wikipedia. One chapter of my thesis will center around Wikipedia's notability policy; I'm particularly curious about the inclusionism vs. deletionism debate that has played out among Wikipedia editors.
I see that you're listed among the members of the Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians. If you see this message, would you mind if I sent you a few questions (via email or right on here) about your views on inclusionism and how you approach the question of notability?
Thanks so much!
-- Dalorleon ( talk) 17:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
1) I began to get interested in editing Wikipedia in early 2005 in my native Russian language and by mid-2006 I realized that I also may edit English Wikipedia. I find myself including the userbox "Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians" on 20 October 2007 in English and listing myself as inclusionist in Russian on 23 August 2008. Together with that, I see summary marks about exploring Linux operating system at that period. By that time in 2007 I already had philosophical notes about Wikipedia social value at my userpages in both languages. These notes ascend to my journalistic work back in 2004–2005 when I was writing journalistic articles and news stories about Wikipedia—so I formed a set of written opinions on that. When I was writing my "main" journalistic article about Wikipedia in January 2005, I examined the subject and interviewed a number of that-time Russian Wikipedians (some are still present, not all). I found out Linux-related (Open Source) nature of Wikipedia's basic conception, and my later Linux experiments were logically consequent to that. This looks as the way I became an Inclusionist.
2.1) I would describe my personal brand of inclusionism as a way to participate in the Free Encyclopedia because it is Free and Inclusionism is an expression of Freedom. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Collaboration, Freedom of Software and Freedom of Knowledge. It's just the way Wikipedia works and Wikipedia won't work without Inclusionism. The early history of "Wikipedia vs Academism" proves that: Larry Sanger and people like him with all their "alternatives for Wikipedia" such as Citizendium, Knol, "blockchain-encyclopedia" etc. were not based on Inclusionism, and logically failed. 2.2) Technically/socially I draw the line between topics that are Wikipedia-worthy basing on WP:Consensus. Personally I could think of including in Wikipedia as many things as possible but I understand I feel too careless with this idea and there should be some limitations. But Wikipedia is so full of people who care so much about limitations so I can feel myself relatively free of these cares. I see Wikipedia not only a website but an ideology, it's known as "wiki". It can be used (and is used) to build communities and knowledge bases outside Wikipedia based on alike principles and even may be used in "political crowdsourcing" to construct democratic processes "in real life"—because conception of enclyclopedia is universal so it can encyclopedically describe anything.
3) So that, my belief in inclusionism impacts the way I contribute to Wikipedia in the form that I may do what I like. I am a merciful person so I don't mean to make harm to good people and with that approach I contribute using Freedom that won't cause unrest to community. I enjoy that. I used to be a journalist covering news stories about widest range of topics, so it's interesting to edit articles on the topics I find interesting while exploring everything. If an article on some topic exist, I may edit it, if not, I may create it.
4) So that, I NEVER CAREFULLY READ WP:GNG AND ALMOST ALL OTHER RULES, I just do what I like. No, I don't know who and when wrote that. This is also the point where international factor creeps in. I got used to basic conceptions of notability and reliable sources through Russian community and Russian community for several historical reasons is far more harsh in terms of setting and imposing rules, and English Wikipedia is far more soft—and therefore more logical, more effective, more humane, more popular, more collaborative, more reliable. Russian Wikipedia is the horrible place where it's hard to survive. English Wikipedia works as it should be—the important part is number of users: Russian one is the way smaller and has much higher concentration of evil people. As a journalist, I like to use journalistic sources for Wikipedia articles, especially on contemporary topics that are very important for editors and for readers (movies, politics etc). In English Wikipedia it is OK to use only 1 source for an article whilst declaring it a "stub" to develop further in future. In Russian Wikipedia community members will almost always attack you for such attempt.
5) As for 5), I feel I have already covered this in the above answers =))
6) I rarely participate in AfD, and primarily when I encounter AfD-related problems that I deal with. Usually I try to defend articles. But yes rarely I may help with deletion discussions when I see some "obvious" malicious actions such as spam, cheat or vandalism. Very rarely I may initiate AfD if I am the first who see such things. I do not go to AfD specially to talk there (this is apparently how my belief in inclusionism influence). But if I occasionally see something interesting when I happen to be at AfD I may "help" with "voting" in occasional nominations (it's not actually "vote", I'm just used to call it vote).
7) Yes, I regularly argue with other editors on Inclusionism vs Deletionism. Usual trigger for such things are of course AfDs but there may be discussions at Wiki-chats I & other editors participate in. There are Wiki Conferences in Russia, I sometimes visit them ( here is English info on the latest'2020). At AfDs, disputes are usually resolved by Consensus. At chats, disputes often are poorly resolved because interlocutors often are skeptical and tend to maintain their skepticism no matter what I say. At conferences, I may find some supporters (or may not).
So, I think that's all for now, thank you Daniel / Dalorleon for your work, I am sure such studies are very useful for Wikimedia Movement and their results are usually very good for proving my grounds when talking about Wikipedia with people. Ask me more if you like! -- ssr ( talk) 19:10, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from Munich speech of Vladimir Putin. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Renat 00:25, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Renat 11:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Burlakov case and Oleg Burlakov multiple rules violation. Thank you. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. ( Contact me | Contributions). 13:11, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello. Please, reply me here. Джонни Уокер ( talk) 12:29, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
We are two editors who disagree about the content of an article. Please begin a discussion on the talk page to avoid an edit war - simply reverting one another back and forth is unproductive. I was about to add some material back into the article from the best sources you cited (the Guardian, BBC), but then I found the whole thing undone once more. Please read WP:AVOIDEDITWAR for a guideline to our next steps. Per WP:ONUS, you need to seek consensus to include the disputed content in the article. I'm sure we can come to consensus with a bit of discussion. — Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
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Hello, Ssr!
My name is Daniel, and I'm a senior at Harvard writing an undergraduate thesis on Wikipedia. One chapter of my thesis will center around Wikipedia's notability policy; I'm particularly curious about the inclusionism vs. deletionism debate that has played out among Wikipedia editors.
I see that you're listed among the members of the Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians. If you see this message, would you mind if I sent you a few questions (via email or right on here) about your views on inclusionism and how you approach the question of notability?
Thanks so much!
-- Dalorleon ( talk) 17:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
1) I began to get interested in editing Wikipedia in early 2005 in my native Russian language and by mid-2006 I realized that I also may edit English Wikipedia. I find myself including the userbox "Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians" on 20 October 2007 in English and listing myself as inclusionist in Russian on 23 August 2008. Together with that, I see summary marks about exploring Linux operating system at that period. By that time in 2007 I already had philosophical notes about Wikipedia social value at my userpages in both languages. These notes ascend to my journalistic work back in 2004–2005 when I was writing journalistic articles and news stories about Wikipedia—so I formed a set of written opinions on that. When I was writing my "main" journalistic article about Wikipedia in January 2005, I examined the subject and interviewed a number of that-time Russian Wikipedians (some are still present, not all). I found out Linux-related (Open Source) nature of Wikipedia's basic conception, and my later Linux experiments were logically consequent to that. This looks as the way I became an Inclusionist.
2.1) I would describe my personal brand of inclusionism as a way to participate in the Free Encyclopedia because it is Free and Inclusionism is an expression of Freedom. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Collaboration, Freedom of Software and Freedom of Knowledge. It's just the way Wikipedia works and Wikipedia won't work without Inclusionism. The early history of "Wikipedia vs Academism" proves that: Larry Sanger and people like him with all their "alternatives for Wikipedia" such as Citizendium, Knol, "blockchain-encyclopedia" etc. were not based on Inclusionism, and logically failed. 2.2) Technically/socially I draw the line between topics that are Wikipedia-worthy basing on WP:Consensus. Personally I could think of including in Wikipedia as many things as possible but I understand I feel too careless with this idea and there should be some limitations. But Wikipedia is so full of people who care so much about limitations so I can feel myself relatively free of these cares. I see Wikipedia not only a website but an ideology, it's known as "wiki". It can be used (and is used) to build communities and knowledge bases outside Wikipedia based on alike principles and even may be used in "political crowdsourcing" to construct democratic processes "in real life"—because conception of enclyclopedia is universal so it can encyclopedically describe anything.
3) So that, my belief in inclusionism impacts the way I contribute to Wikipedia in the form that I may do what I like. I am a merciful person so I don't mean to make harm to good people and with that approach I contribute using Freedom that won't cause unrest to community. I enjoy that. I used to be a journalist covering news stories about widest range of topics, so it's interesting to edit articles on the topics I find interesting while exploring everything. If an article on some topic exist, I may edit it, if not, I may create it.
4) So that, I NEVER CAREFULLY READ WP:GNG AND ALMOST ALL OTHER RULES, I just do what I like. No, I don't know who and when wrote that. This is also the point where international factor creeps in. I got used to basic conceptions of notability and reliable sources through Russian community and Russian community for several historical reasons is far more harsh in terms of setting and imposing rules, and English Wikipedia is far more soft—and therefore more logical, more effective, more humane, more popular, more collaborative, more reliable. Russian Wikipedia is the horrible place where it's hard to survive. English Wikipedia works as it should be—the important part is number of users: Russian one is the way smaller and has much higher concentration of evil people. As a journalist, I like to use journalistic sources for Wikipedia articles, especially on contemporary topics that are very important for editors and for readers (movies, politics etc). In English Wikipedia it is OK to use only 1 source for an article whilst declaring it a "stub" to develop further in future. In Russian Wikipedia community members will almost always attack you for such attempt.
5) As for 5), I feel I have already covered this in the above answers =))
6) I rarely participate in AfD, and primarily when I encounter AfD-related problems that I deal with. Usually I try to defend articles. But yes rarely I may help with deletion discussions when I see some "obvious" malicious actions such as spam, cheat or vandalism. Very rarely I may initiate AfD if I am the first who see such things. I do not go to AfD specially to talk there (this is apparently how my belief in inclusionism influence). But if I occasionally see something interesting when I happen to be at AfD I may "help" with "voting" in occasional nominations (it's not actually "vote", I'm just used to call it vote).
7) Yes, I regularly argue with other editors on Inclusionism vs Deletionism. Usual trigger for such things are of course AfDs but there may be discussions at Wiki-chats I & other editors participate in. There are Wiki Conferences in Russia, I sometimes visit them ( here is English info on the latest'2020). At AfDs, disputes are usually resolved by Consensus. At chats, disputes often are poorly resolved because interlocutors often are skeptical and tend to maintain their skepticism no matter what I say. At conferences, I may find some supporters (or may not).
So, I think that's all for now, thank you Daniel / Dalorleon for your work, I am sure such studies are very useful for Wikimedia Movement and their results are usually very good for proving my grounds when talking about Wikipedia with people. Ask me more if you like! -- ssr ( talk) 19:10, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from Munich speech of Vladimir Putin. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Renat 00:25, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Renat 11:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Burlakov case and Oleg Burlakov multiple rules violation. Thank you. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. ( Contact me | Contributions). 13:11, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello. Please, reply me here. Джонни Уокер ( talk) 12:29, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
We are two editors who disagree about the content of an article. Please begin a discussion on the talk page to avoid an edit war - simply reverting one another back and forth is unproductive. I was about to add some material back into the article from the best sources you cited (the Guardian, BBC), but then I found the whole thing undone once more. Please read WP:AVOIDEDITWAR for a guideline to our next steps. Per WP:ONUS, you need to seek consensus to include the disputed content in the article. I'm sure we can come to consensus with a bit of discussion. — Ganesha811 ( talk) 13:18, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Internet in Russia, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Online gaming.
( Opt-out instructions.) -- DPL bot ( talk) 06:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)