You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war. Users are expected to
collaborate with others, to avoid editing
disruptively, and to
try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. TFD ( talk) 03:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
below this notice, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first.
King of
♥
♦
♣ ♠ 09:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
*There is no 3RR violation. *There may not even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. *There is no edit warring by anyone on any side. The diffs and context have not been correctly read. There may possibly not even even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. :- When User:The Four Deuces (TFD) posted a 3RR warning on my talk page, I asked what he was talking about [1]. :- TFD did not respond to my question in any way. :- Instead of responding as to what he meant, when I undid an unrelated massive deletion, made in error by an unrelated editor, TFD jumped on his 3RR warning and alleged a 3RR violation. The allegations of 3RR violation are incorrect as follows. :* Two (not "more than three") of the diffs of alleged 3RR violating reverts involve edits adding new content, but additionally adding the term “ diagnosis”. Unanimous consensus was reached that “ diagnosis” should be added. In fact, Ronz, the editor I supposedly “reverted” from in the “1st revert” allegation, was the same editor who diligently located sources to support my edit adding this term [2], and said the sources he located supported also adding the term " Prevention", which I did, and I responded “done” at the talk page. [3] ::So I assume the 3RR violation allegation refers to only to other parts of my edit, and I will not further comment on edits as to adding “ diagnosis”as being the basis of the allegation of 3RR violation. :* 1st “revert”: [4] 21:47, 30 November 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything. ::* This edit did not delete any content previously added by other editors. ::* This edit did not add any content previously deleted by other editors. ::* This edit responded to a request by another editor to add new sources to the history section, which had no opposition at the talk page. ::* The edit was actually the end of a string of edits, each of which added single sentences with RS sources, one step at a time, and with an edit summary that quoted the sentence added, so that the diffs would be well explained. ::* So this edit is not a "revert" of anything. :* 2nd “revert”: [5] 00:0,2 1 December 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything, and is not related to the content of non-revert #1 above. ::* The edit actually involves a string of edits, each adding single sentences, and each with edit summary quoting the content added, so that the diffs would be well explained. ::* This string of edits did not delete any content previously added by any editor. ::* This string of edits did not add any content previously removed by any editor. ::* This edit was unrelated to any talk page discussion seeking consensus. ::* This edit added sourced content for the first time as follows - ::::“Unlike English philosopher of science Francis Bacon, Burton assumes that knowledge of the mind, not natural science, is humankind's greatest need.?UNIQ329a551b4b4e5044-nowiki-00000017-QINU?1?UNIQ329a551b4b4e5044-nowiki-00000018-QINU?” ::with edit summary ::::“Unlike English philosopher of science Francis Bacon, Burton assumes that knowledge of the mind, not natural science, is humankind's greatest need.” ::* The difference for this edit is well explained. ::* This edit is in no way a "revert" of anything. :* 3rd “revert”: [6] 02:06, 1 December 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything, and is not related to the content of non-revert #1 or #2 above. ::* The edit did not delete any material previously added by another editor. ::* This edit did not add any material previously deleted by another editor. ::* This edit did not add any content removed by any other editor. ::* This edit did not add content in any topic under discussion at talk for which consensus was being sought ::* This edit was a string of entirely new step by step new edits that added a construction tag, reorganized content in the lede per MOS, added content with RS sources, and that was not related in any way to any talk page discussion lacking consensus. ::* This edit is in no way a "revert" of anything. : * 4th revert: [7] 02:17, 1 December 2012 ::TFD is being very misleading here. This edit was a revert, but not of Ronz’s edit as TFD makes it appear! It was a revert of TFD’s much earlier edit [8], which utterly lacked an edit summary that made sense, and which violated consensus reached at the relevant talk page section on history calling for additional sources in the history section, to which TFD in no way commented. I added new sources, and new content from the sources. TFD’s edit summary, “Rv unexplained diffs”, made no sense since each of the edits adding content to the history section was addition of a single sentence with RS, and with an edit summary quoting the sentence, to have the best possible explanation in the diffs. I put the RS content back in the article, and I a started a talk page section asking for an explanation from TFD. If TFD had any explanation, I would have undone my own revert. TFD explained that he objected to only one sentence in the man sentences added. He explained “Your addition included a passage about the ancient Greeks sourced to an 1881 satirical book”. I did not add content sourced by an 1881 book, and did not add content sourced by any satire. I asked if there was any basis for me to undo my own revert in such case, especially as to the massive other content he deleted. TFD did not respond. This is not edit warring on my part. :* 5th "revert": [9] 06:23, 1 December 2012 “*This edit undid Harizotoh9’s edit [10] :*Herisotoh9’s edit undid Ronz’s last edit, which was part of consensus reached at talk re “diagnosis”. :*Herisotoh9’s edit had no edit summary. :* Herisotoh9’s edit appeared to be either vandalism or an error. :* With my AGF that Herisotoh9’s edit was an error, not vandalism, I started a talk page section asking if the edit was made in error - Was this edit intentional?”, in which I asked about his unexplained edit – ::::“Was this edit intentional, or a slip of some "save page" button? It had no edit summary, deleted content and sources, undid the reording Ronz just did, and ignored consensus just reached as to the word "diagnosis". I reverted it. If it was intentional, please explain it, and the absense of talk page discussion and edit summary basis." :* There was no response by Herizotoh9 or anyone to my inquiry. :* Herizotoh9's edit appeared to be an error, and I undid it, with edit summary ::::“Undid revision 525819400 by Harizotoh9 (talk) Rv unexplaned edit removing sources and content back to Ronz version; Was that an edit error?” :* This is in no way an edit warring repeat of multiple reverts above (if there even is more than a single revert above), but merely a correction of an erroneous deletion made by an editor, unrelated to the above, and unresponded to at the talk page when I said I assumed it was uintentional, which by WP:silence, and the utter lack of edcit summary, implied that it was. Conclusion - *There is no 3RR violation. *There may not even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. *There is no edit warring by anyone on any side. ParkSehJik ( talk) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Wow. That took a lot of reading (next time read WP:GAB to understand the importance of brevity). First, you seem to be under a distinct misunderstanding - edit warring and WP:3RR are related, but different. You do not have to break the bright line of 3RR to be edit-warring. You also seem to have skipped over the key points that "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing other editors—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert." (emphasis mine from WP:EW). In short, your own unblock request actually proves your edit-warring. I suggest you re-read WP:EW, WP:3RR and most importantly WP:DR while this very brief block is in effect ( ✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 11:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Your first edit (21:47, 30 November 2012) restored "diagnosis" to the lead, which you had originally added 22:57, 29 November 2012, [11] and had been reverted by Ronz. [12] It therefore counts as a revert. Your second edit also restores "diagnosis" and therefore counts as a revert. The third and fifth edits changed the wording of the final paragraph of the lead and therefore count as reverts. The fourth edit, as you admit, was restoring material that I had deleted, which is also a revert.
Ronz explained to you above after I posted the warning template, "It's a very easy to get blocked if one is unaware that reverting the same or similar content is inappropriate. The rule of thumb is to discuss rather than revert, following WP:DR." [13] This is a short block and you should take the time to read through the policy on edit-warring.
TFD ( talk) 20:39, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
OK. But is is a waste of my time and that of others, arguing whether "diagnosis" can go in an article on psychiatry, or whether Esquirol in as part of its history. When I put in the information, with good sources, they were tag team deleted in an apparantly arbitrary and baseless harrassment, and tag team effort to make a Wikipedia-Lawyer claim of 3RR violation.
Similarly, arguing that there are not major concerns about the scientific validity of its diagnoses, with the concerns making Discover Magazine's new issue as one of the top 100 science stories of 2012, is also a waste of time. How can it be a top 100 science story, and at the same time no one at Wikipedia in general, or even its Medicine project, has heard about it? Since editors here seem to pay more attention ot popular science magazines than scholarly works, here is a quote from a previous Discover Magazine story -
Why are editors working on medical articles, deleting all content and sources I add, arguing UNDUE with no basis at all, tag teaming their deletions, and stating such strong opinions and taking up so much time from baseless and preposterous positions, when not only do they not have any expertise at all on the topic, but they are not even familiar with the popular science literature on the topic? ParkSehJik ( talk) 21:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I just noticed this edit - you seem to have accidentally reverted a large number of unrelated changes. Could you specify which change(s) you intended to make? Arc de Ciel ( talk) 09:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi ParkSehJik. I haven't really been following your posts elsewhere but in my opinion you're raising too many issues at once on the Talk:Psychiatry page. I would advise taking one issue at a time and when some sort of consensus has been established for inclusion to or exclusion from the main article move on to the next item. You're much more likely to get a negative response when you make lots of proposals at once. FiachraByrne ( talk) 17:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
On a related note, to avoid WP:CANVAS problems: Start discussions at the most relevant location you can find. When you take a discussion to multiple locations, indicate you are doing so from all locations and provide rationale. Generally, follow WP:DR and escalate any dispute slowly. -- Ronz ( talk) 17:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Park, this is a repeat of things you have been asked several times on the dozens of pages you have posted essentially the same thing:
Finally, I want to point out that this advice is neither correct nor helpful:
You were identified as a 'tendentious editor with a strongly anti-psychiatry point of view causing trouble' in a post at the medicine Wikiproject with a request for more editors to get involved in policing the psychiatry pages you were then attempting to edit. Once you were so identified all of your edits ... were going to be treated with the utmost suspicion and subject to reversion. ... FiachraByrne ( talk) 01:59, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
That is not the case; we are all generally capable of evaluating your posts ourselves, regardless of how the post was initially framed, and your posting style has been as big of a problem as your posting content. The issues I have seen with your posting have extended beyond, and have nothing to do with, the way the original request at WT:MED was framed, and if you think this is the case, you may fail to heed the pleas from others for you to please alter your posting style lest you end up in dispute resolution after exhausting the community's patience. Please take the advice given you on this page to be more focused, more brief, to better understand Wikipedia policies, and please stop exhausting the watchlists of so many editors. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to have a private conversation with you. Would you be able to email me via Special:EmailUser/Anthonyhcole? (That will disclose your email address to me, so you may want to use a throw-away account.) -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 01:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first. —
DoRD (
talk) 01:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? *Where are the diffs of the "abuse"? *Where was the "trial"? *When was I noticed of it? *Who is my accuser? I would like to face them. What was the "abuse" that was so serious that all of AT&T was blocked (Starbucks, McDonalds, Barnes & Noble, etc.), as well as apparantly a whole college, and including everyone associated with my group? What was the serious abuse and not an improvement of Wikipedia from anyone associated with this or other anon IPs? Where was there a warning? Why is everyone at this shared IP, and at many others, blocked. Why are so many trying to "out" editors who do not want to reveal their identity for whatever reasons they may have, including posting the name of the college they edited from? Why am I being dragged back to this talk page? ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:03, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block. In so far as what you say relates to the block at all (which much of it doesn't), it is a rant against what you see as the iniquities of the way that Wikipedia deals with such cases. However, any unblock request must be assessed within the existing framework, and suggesting changes to Wikipedia policies is a separate issue, which is not going to be dealt with here. Any suggestion that we should introduce "trials", rather than the present system of entrusting administrators to make assessments is, I guess, unlikely to get very far. The reason that I am here assessing your unblock request is that another editor asked me to step in, because of your comment below, where you say that I "implicitly acknowledged anon IP use was OK just two days ago". Of course anon IP use is OK, but it is a large jump from there to "anon IP use is OK no matter how it is used, including such things as using IP addresses and an account to edit the same pages, in such ways that other editors are likely to be misled into thinking that more than one editor is involved, using an IP address to evade a block on another one, etc etc". JamesBWatson ( talk) 09:57, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
How do I address the reason for the block without knowing the diffs that it is based on, and how do these specific diffs show intentional "abuse"?
I wrote "How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? Where are the diffs of the "abuse"?"
You wrote "Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block."
How am I supposed to address the reason for the block if no one will not specify any diffs upon which it is based? There are no such diffs without assuming bad faith. What are the diffs of the alleged abuse, and how do they show an intent of abuse? Other editors have asked for these on the notice board, but no one seems to know of any.
The accusation seems to be of a deliberate effort to appear to be more than one person. No one could possibly think that given the edit history. So where is the SP even if there are diffs? (I am only guessing at what I am supposed to be responding to, since no one would specify any diffs when I asked, nor specify how those diffs "prove" an SP effort.)
Even if there were such diffs, how do they address this] without an assumption of bad faith.
Why are editors who do not want their iedentiy revealed now blocked from editing at alt med, because one, Aspheric, (actually three, including Qexigator and Puhlaa) wants to know who they are? (Is Aspeheric or any of the others one of the unhappy campers who had to camp in a prison for medical fraud related to expert work by one or more of the authors in the sources trying to be removed?) ParkSehJik ( talk) 15:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Decline reason:
I took another look and this is unambiguously Confirmed multiple account abuse. Talk page access revoked, and I'm marking this a {{ checkuserblock}}. T. Canens ( talk) 08:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
How do I address the reason for the block without knowing the diffs that it is based on, and how do these specific diffs show intentional "abuse"?
I wrote "How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? Where are the diffs of the "abuse"?"
You wrote "Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block."
How am I supposed to address the reason for the block if no one will not specify any diffs upon which it is based? There are no such diffs without assuming bad faith. What are the diffs of the alleged abuse, and how do they show an intent of abuse? Other editors have asked for these on the notice board, but no one seems to know of any.
The accusation seems to be of a deliberate effort to appear to be more than one person. No one could possibly think that given the edit history. But I am only guessing at what I am supposed to be responding to, since no one would specify any diffs when I asked, nor specify how those diffs "prove" an SP effort.
Even if there were such diffs, how do they address this] without an assumption of bad faith.
Yes, formal notice was given that there were multiple IPs for the same editor, and no one following the dicsussion could have understood anything otherwise -
I have not investigated the original complaint, but once it was raised, it became apparent that the logged-out editing was being done by a registered user. Since there was no clear connection between the IP edits and a named account, it looked like someone avoiding scrutiny, and it was probable enough to warrant a check. — DoRD ( talk) 22:21, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Park. Sorry to see you were blocked and I hope that there were no serious real life issues that led you to edit as an IP (outside of problematic socking behaviour I have no problem with IP editing). I'm assuming you can respond on your talk page even though you're blocked. If not I'll delete this.
Just to say in regard to your previous comments on forensic psychiatry, psychiatric clinicians and researchers tended to look at diagnostic concepts very differently (notwithstanding the fact that a considerable proportion of clinicians may be skeptical of all or certain diagnostic categories, particularly ones that have experienced recent hyper-inflation like bipolar ii). Clinicians tend to look at them as reified objects - real, discoverable objects in the world that can be easily identified - while researchers, particularly those that favour dimensional approaches, tend to see them as working constructs.
Best of luck. FiachraByrne ( talk) 04:42, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
(PS, commenting on your reply to SBHarris re what you can do at Wiki, its best to the the primary source that the tertiary source relies on. Better, be the subprimary source that the primary source studies.)
One more comment, pass it on - “… suggestions about where DSM-V might best be aligned… nonempirical aspects of classification are legitimate and necessary.” - (Am J Psychiatry 2007; 164:557–565) Yes, my nonempirical "gut feeling" is that the person is crazy, and needs to have their assets seized and be locked up until my gut feeling changes, i.e., for life, without a trial, or accusation of having committed any crime... its for their own good. :) ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Again, you will never have a way to know when a talk page gets blocked.
This editor, who requested " I recommend you come to my talk page (since your address keeps changing) so it can be discussed", has no way of knowing why I never went to their talk page.
The editor charges it is "contentious" not to compromise or be polite with an edtor who keeps deleting NSF as a source because it is not a good source. The word "contentious" gets throw at anyone who does not cave in to a "consensus" with alt med pushers, e.g., maybe there is half of a spiritual energey, or at least a tenth, as a compromise. That is why the TCM article got reduced to dust, caving in on the "contentious" charge, and now it is not even considered an alt med. This "truth by consensus" and "get along with the fraud community" attitude does not improve Wikipedia.
If you have a way of letting this admin know what is going on, he may have opinions on all this, since he implicitly acknowledged anon IP use was OK just two days ago. 05:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC) ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
By avoiding "too much aggrivation", we end up with a Traditional Chinese Medicine arricle that does not even mention that it is alternative medicine! Apeasement does not work, and never has.
Other than five editors objecting to Academic Medicine, Nature Medicine, NSF, and New York Academy of Sciences as sources (the latter of which it appears few have read, despite it being the seminal source on the topic, from which almost all the others can be traced, even NSF.) Other than them, it appears there is rough consensus on the article so far.
The whole point of the NYAS article (read it) is this "caving in" to "just getting along", and not be "contentious", which is how the Traditional Chinese Medicine article ended up having all science scrubbed, all mention that it is a deliberate fraud by Mao, and not even calling it "alternative medicine", giving it scientific respectablity by default. That s how propoganda works - calling the enemy names and getting them shut down from speaking by the name calling, all without evidence (diffs).
Ironically, Sampson, the guy heading the delegation of one of the most pre-eminent debunking scientists ever assempbled, the one that uncovered that acupunture and TCM was a Communist plot (paranoid as it sounds, that is what happened), ended up being forced into early retirement for being "contentious" about Stanford funding acupuncture research, despite the delegation's findings, and refusing to treat with "dignity and respect" the "MD" claiming to have found "positive results" for acupuncture and asking and getting more funding (i.e., postive results for the fraud that was alrady known to be nothging but a Communist plot, later to be discovered to be another fraud, this time an academic fraud, but leaving that MD in place, and Sampson as emeritus! LOL but its not funny.) Editors at that article should read the sources before caving in to the "truth by consensus" relativism pointed out in the NYAS article. I will see what I can do about someone in our group posting it somewhere, since none of us now appear able to edit on the article in which we have expertise.
What the likely outcome of this will be is not improving WIkipedia, but taking out the simple fact that alt med is what the article currently says it is, and what the sources say in support of this. Alt med may be unconventional and not under the "dominant orthodoxy" (i.e., science, but obscured in the Marxist WHO wording). But that is not what defines it. What defines it is a deliberate use of language to create the appearance of efficacy and consistency with science by the very words (alternative, complementary, integrative), when this is false, and by it not being based on science (however poorly eb-medicine is based on science, it at least purports to try to be so based), but being based on superstition or fraud (all the other words defining it are subsumed by these two). This is not a POV, it is a fact. (Facts only have POVs in abstract philosophy courses with extreme examples in slippery slope arguments.) ParkSehJik ( talk) 14:55, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Just in case you find a way to contribute ... Request initiated for the article Alternative medicine to be moved to Complementary and alternative medicine. I'm notifying you as major contributor to the article. Relevant talk page discussion found here. FiachraByrne ( talk) 02:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article John Wallace Diesel is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Wallace Diesel (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Kindzmarauli ( talk) 22:57, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Florida Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Since you had some involvement with the Florida Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Bangalamania ( talk) 19:14, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an
edit war. Users are expected to
collaborate with others, to avoid editing
disruptively, and to
try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. TFD ( talk) 03:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
below this notice, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first.
King of
♥
♦
♣ ♠ 09:05, 1 December 2012 (UTC)ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
*There is no 3RR violation. *There may not even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. *There is no edit warring by anyone on any side. The diffs and context have not been correctly read. There may possibly not even even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. :- When User:The Four Deuces (TFD) posted a 3RR warning on my talk page, I asked what he was talking about [1]. :- TFD did not respond to my question in any way. :- Instead of responding as to what he meant, when I undid an unrelated massive deletion, made in error by an unrelated editor, TFD jumped on his 3RR warning and alleged a 3RR violation. The allegations of 3RR violation are incorrect as follows. :* Two (not "more than three") of the diffs of alleged 3RR violating reverts involve edits adding new content, but additionally adding the term “ diagnosis”. Unanimous consensus was reached that “ diagnosis” should be added. In fact, Ronz, the editor I supposedly “reverted” from in the “1st revert” allegation, was the same editor who diligently located sources to support my edit adding this term [2], and said the sources he located supported also adding the term " Prevention", which I did, and I responded “done” at the talk page. [3] ::So I assume the 3RR violation allegation refers to only to other parts of my edit, and I will not further comment on edits as to adding “ diagnosis”as being the basis of the allegation of 3RR violation. :* 1st “revert”: [4] 21:47, 30 November 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything. ::* This edit did not delete any content previously added by other editors. ::* This edit did not add any content previously deleted by other editors. ::* This edit responded to a request by another editor to add new sources to the history section, which had no opposition at the talk page. ::* The edit was actually the end of a string of edits, each of which added single sentences with RS sources, one step at a time, and with an edit summary that quoted the sentence added, so that the diffs would be well explained. ::* So this edit is not a "revert" of anything. :* 2nd “revert”: [5] 00:0,2 1 December 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything, and is not related to the content of non-revert #1 above. ::* The edit actually involves a string of edits, each adding single sentences, and each with edit summary quoting the content added, so that the diffs would be well explained. ::* This string of edits did not delete any content previously added by any editor. ::* This string of edits did not add any content previously removed by any editor. ::* This edit was unrelated to any talk page discussion seeking consensus. ::* This edit added sourced content for the first time as follows - ::::“Unlike English philosopher of science Francis Bacon, Burton assumes that knowledge of the mind, not natural science, is humankind's greatest need.?UNIQ329a551b4b4e5044-nowiki-00000017-QINU?1?UNIQ329a551b4b4e5044-nowiki-00000018-QINU?” ::with edit summary ::::“Unlike English philosopher of science Francis Bacon, Burton assumes that knowledge of the mind, not natural science, is humankind's greatest need.” ::* The difference for this edit is well explained. ::* This edit is in no way a "revert" of anything. :* 3rd “revert”: [6] 02:06, 1 December 2012 ::This edit is not a "revert" of anything, and is not related to the content of non-revert #1 or #2 above. ::* The edit did not delete any material previously added by another editor. ::* This edit did not add any material previously deleted by another editor. ::* This edit did not add any content removed by any other editor. ::* This edit did not add content in any topic under discussion at talk for which consensus was being sought ::* This edit was a string of entirely new step by step new edits that added a construction tag, reorganized content in the lede per MOS, added content with RS sources, and that was not related in any way to any talk page discussion lacking consensus. ::* This edit is in no way a "revert" of anything. : * 4th revert: [7] 02:17, 1 December 2012 ::TFD is being very misleading here. This edit was a revert, but not of Ronz’s edit as TFD makes it appear! It was a revert of TFD’s much earlier edit [8], which utterly lacked an edit summary that made sense, and which violated consensus reached at the relevant talk page section on history calling for additional sources in the history section, to which TFD in no way commented. I added new sources, and new content from the sources. TFD’s edit summary, “Rv unexplained diffs”, made no sense since each of the edits adding content to the history section was addition of a single sentence with RS, and with an edit summary quoting the sentence, to have the best possible explanation in the diffs. I put the RS content back in the article, and I a started a talk page section asking for an explanation from TFD. If TFD had any explanation, I would have undone my own revert. TFD explained that he objected to only one sentence in the man sentences added. He explained “Your addition included a passage about the ancient Greeks sourced to an 1881 satirical book”. I did not add content sourced by an 1881 book, and did not add content sourced by any satire. I asked if there was any basis for me to undo my own revert in such case, especially as to the massive other content he deleted. TFD did not respond. This is not edit warring on my part. :* 5th "revert": [9] 06:23, 1 December 2012 “*This edit undid Harizotoh9’s edit [10] :*Herisotoh9’s edit undid Ronz’s last edit, which was part of consensus reached at talk re “diagnosis”. :*Herisotoh9’s edit had no edit summary. :* Herisotoh9’s edit appeared to be either vandalism or an error. :* With my AGF that Herisotoh9’s edit was an error, not vandalism, I started a talk page section asking if the edit was made in error - Was this edit intentional?”, in which I asked about his unexplained edit – ::::“Was this edit intentional, or a slip of some "save page" button? It had no edit summary, deleted content and sources, undid the reording Ronz just did, and ignored consensus just reached as to the word "diagnosis". I reverted it. If it was intentional, please explain it, and the absense of talk page discussion and edit summary basis." :* There was no response by Herizotoh9 or anyone to my inquiry. :* Herizotoh9's edit appeared to be an error, and I undid it, with edit summary ::::“Undid revision 525819400 by Harizotoh9 (talk) Rv unexplaned edit removing sources and content back to Ronz version; Was that an edit error?” :* This is in no way an edit warring repeat of multiple reverts above (if there even is more than a single revert above), but merely a correction of an erroneous deletion made by an editor, unrelated to the above, and unresponded to at the talk page when I said I assumed it was uintentional, which by WP:silence, and the utter lack of edcit summary, implied that it was. Conclusion - *There is no 3RR violation. *There may not even be a 2RR or 1RR violation. *There is no edit warring by anyone on any side. ParkSehJik ( talk) 19:33, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Wow. That took a lot of reading (next time read WP:GAB to understand the importance of brevity). First, you seem to be under a distinct misunderstanding - edit warring and WP:3RR are related, but different. You do not have to break the bright line of 3RR to be edit-warring. You also seem to have skipped over the key points that "An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing other editors—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert." (emphasis mine from WP:EW). In short, your own unblock request actually proves your edit-warring. I suggest you re-read WP:EW, WP:3RR and most importantly WP:DR while this very brief block is in effect ( ✉→ BWilkins ←✎) 11:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Your first edit (21:47, 30 November 2012) restored "diagnosis" to the lead, which you had originally added 22:57, 29 November 2012, [11] and had been reverted by Ronz. [12] It therefore counts as a revert. Your second edit also restores "diagnosis" and therefore counts as a revert. The third and fifth edits changed the wording of the final paragraph of the lead and therefore count as reverts. The fourth edit, as you admit, was restoring material that I had deleted, which is also a revert.
Ronz explained to you above after I posted the warning template, "It's a very easy to get blocked if one is unaware that reverting the same or similar content is inappropriate. The rule of thumb is to discuss rather than revert, following WP:DR." [13] This is a short block and you should take the time to read through the policy on edit-warring.
TFD ( talk) 20:39, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
OK. But is is a waste of my time and that of others, arguing whether "diagnosis" can go in an article on psychiatry, or whether Esquirol in as part of its history. When I put in the information, with good sources, they were tag team deleted in an apparantly arbitrary and baseless harrassment, and tag team effort to make a Wikipedia-Lawyer claim of 3RR violation.
Similarly, arguing that there are not major concerns about the scientific validity of its diagnoses, with the concerns making Discover Magazine's new issue as one of the top 100 science stories of 2012, is also a waste of time. How can it be a top 100 science story, and at the same time no one at Wikipedia in general, or even its Medicine project, has heard about it? Since editors here seem to pay more attention ot popular science magazines than scholarly works, here is a quote from a previous Discover Magazine story -
Why are editors working on medical articles, deleting all content and sources I add, arguing UNDUE with no basis at all, tag teaming their deletions, and stating such strong opinions and taking up so much time from baseless and preposterous positions, when not only do they not have any expertise at all on the topic, but they are not even familiar with the popular science literature on the topic? ParkSehJik ( talk) 21:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
I just noticed this edit - you seem to have accidentally reverted a large number of unrelated changes. Could you specify which change(s) you intended to make? Arc de Ciel ( talk) 09:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi ParkSehJik. I haven't really been following your posts elsewhere but in my opinion you're raising too many issues at once on the Talk:Psychiatry page. I would advise taking one issue at a time and when some sort of consensus has been established for inclusion to or exclusion from the main article move on to the next item. You're much more likely to get a negative response when you make lots of proposals at once. FiachraByrne ( talk) 17:00, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
On a related note, to avoid WP:CANVAS problems: Start discussions at the most relevant location you can find. When you take a discussion to multiple locations, indicate you are doing so from all locations and provide rationale. Generally, follow WP:DR and escalate any dispute slowly. -- Ronz ( talk) 17:55, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Park, this is a repeat of things you have been asked several times on the dozens of pages you have posted essentially the same thing:
Finally, I want to point out that this advice is neither correct nor helpful:
You were identified as a 'tendentious editor with a strongly anti-psychiatry point of view causing trouble' in a post at the medicine Wikiproject with a request for more editors to get involved in policing the psychiatry pages you were then attempting to edit. Once you were so identified all of your edits ... were going to be treated with the utmost suspicion and subject to reversion. ... FiachraByrne ( talk) 01:59, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
That is not the case; we are all generally capable of evaluating your posts ourselves, regardless of how the post was initially framed, and your posting style has been as big of a problem as your posting content. The issues I have seen with your posting have extended beyond, and have nothing to do with, the way the original request at WT:MED was framed, and if you think this is the case, you may fail to heed the pleas from others for you to please alter your posting style lest you end up in dispute resolution after exhausting the community's patience. Please take the advice given you on this page to be more focused, more brief, to better understand Wikipedia policies, and please stop exhausting the watchlists of so many editors. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 20:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to have a private conversation with you. Would you be able to email me via Special:EmailUser/Anthonyhcole? (That will disclose your email address to me, so you may want to use a throw-away account.) -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 01:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
{{
unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
, but you should read the
guide to appealing blocks first. —
DoRD (
talk) 01:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? *Where are the diffs of the "abuse"? *Where was the "trial"? *When was I noticed of it? *Who is my accuser? I would like to face them. What was the "abuse" that was so serious that all of AT&T was blocked (Starbucks, McDonalds, Barnes & Noble, etc.), as well as apparantly a whole college, and including everyone associated with my group? What was the serious abuse and not an improvement of Wikipedia from anyone associated with this or other anon IPs? Where was there a warning? Why is everyone at this shared IP, and at many others, blocked. Why are so many trying to "out" editors who do not want to reveal their identity for whatever reasons they may have, including posting the name of the college they edited from? Why am I being dragged back to this talk page? ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:03, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block. In so far as what you say relates to the block at all (which much of it doesn't), it is a rant against what you see as the iniquities of the way that Wikipedia deals with such cases. However, any unblock request must be assessed within the existing framework, and suggesting changes to Wikipedia policies is a separate issue, which is not going to be dealt with here. Any suggestion that we should introduce "trials", rather than the present system of entrusting administrators to make assessments is, I guess, unlikely to get very far. The reason that I am here assessing your unblock request is that another editor asked me to step in, because of your comment below, where you say that I "implicitly acknowledged anon IP use was OK just two days ago". Of course anon IP use is OK, but it is a large jump from there to "anon IP use is OK no matter how it is used, including such things as using IP addresses and an account to edit the same pages, in such ways that other editors are likely to be misled into thinking that more than one editor is involved, using an IP address to evade a block on another one, etc etc". JamesBWatson ( talk) 09:57, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
ParkSehJik ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
How do I address the reason for the block without knowing the diffs that it is based on, and how do these specific diffs show intentional "abuse"?
I wrote "How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? Where are the diffs of the "abuse"?"
You wrote "Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block."
How am I supposed to address the reason for the block if no one will not specify any diffs upon which it is based? There are no such diffs without assuming bad faith. What are the diffs of the alleged abuse, and how do they show an intent of abuse? Other editors have asked for these on the notice board, but no one seems to know of any.
The accusation seems to be of a deliberate effort to appear to be more than one person. No one could possibly think that given the edit history. So where is the SP even if there are diffs? (I am only guessing at what I am supposed to be responding to, since no one would specify any diffs when I asked, nor specify how those diffs "prove" an SP effort.)
Even if there were such diffs, how do they address this] without an assumption of bad faith.
Why are editors who do not want their iedentiy revealed now blocked from editing at alt med, because one, Aspheric, (actually three, including Qexigator and Puhlaa) wants to know who they are? (Is Aspeheric or any of the others one of the unhappy campers who had to camp in a prison for medical fraud related to expert work by one or more of the authors in the sources trying to be removed?) ParkSehJik ( talk) 15:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Decline reason:
I took another look and this is unambiguously Confirmed multiple account abuse. Talk page access revoked, and I'm marking this a {{ checkuserblock}}. T. Canens ( talk) 08:13, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
How do I address the reason for the block without knowing the diffs that it is based on, and how do these specific diffs show intentional "abuse"?
I wrote "How am I supposed to get my one shot at an ublock without even knowing the charges of my aleged very serious abuse? Where are the diffs of the "abuse"?"
You wrote "Nowhere, either in your unblock request or elsewhere, have you addressed the reason for your block."
How am I supposed to address the reason for the block if no one will not specify any diffs upon which it is based? There are no such diffs without assuming bad faith. What are the diffs of the alleged abuse, and how do they show an intent of abuse? Other editors have asked for these on the notice board, but no one seems to know of any.
The accusation seems to be of a deliberate effort to appear to be more than one person. No one could possibly think that given the edit history. But I am only guessing at what I am supposed to be responding to, since no one would specify any diffs when I asked, nor specify how those diffs "prove" an SP effort.
Even if there were such diffs, how do they address this] without an assumption of bad faith.
Yes, formal notice was given that there were multiple IPs for the same editor, and no one following the dicsussion could have understood anything otherwise -
I have not investigated the original complaint, but once it was raised, it became apparent that the logged-out editing was being done by a registered user. Since there was no clear connection between the IP edits and a named account, it looked like someone avoiding scrutiny, and it was probable enough to warrant a check. — DoRD ( talk) 22:21, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Park. Sorry to see you were blocked and I hope that there were no serious real life issues that led you to edit as an IP (outside of problematic socking behaviour I have no problem with IP editing). I'm assuming you can respond on your talk page even though you're blocked. If not I'll delete this.
Just to say in regard to your previous comments on forensic psychiatry, psychiatric clinicians and researchers tended to look at diagnostic concepts very differently (notwithstanding the fact that a considerable proportion of clinicians may be skeptical of all or certain diagnostic categories, particularly ones that have experienced recent hyper-inflation like bipolar ii). Clinicians tend to look at them as reified objects - real, discoverable objects in the world that can be easily identified - while researchers, particularly those that favour dimensional approaches, tend to see them as working constructs.
Best of luck. FiachraByrne ( talk) 04:42, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
(PS, commenting on your reply to SBHarris re what you can do at Wiki, its best to the the primary source that the tertiary source relies on. Better, be the subprimary source that the primary source studies.)
One more comment, pass it on - “… suggestions about where DSM-V might best be aligned… nonempirical aspects of classification are legitimate and necessary.” - (Am J Psychiatry 2007; 164:557–565) Yes, my nonempirical "gut feeling" is that the person is crazy, and needs to have their assets seized and be locked up until my gut feeling changes, i.e., for life, without a trial, or accusation of having committed any crime... its for their own good. :) ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:15, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Again, you will never have a way to know when a talk page gets blocked.
This editor, who requested " I recommend you come to my talk page (since your address keeps changing) so it can be discussed", has no way of knowing why I never went to their talk page.
The editor charges it is "contentious" not to compromise or be polite with an edtor who keeps deleting NSF as a source because it is not a good source. The word "contentious" gets throw at anyone who does not cave in to a "consensus" with alt med pushers, e.g., maybe there is half of a spiritual energey, or at least a tenth, as a compromise. That is why the TCM article got reduced to dust, caving in on the "contentious" charge, and now it is not even considered an alt med. This "truth by consensus" and "get along with the fraud community" attitude does not improve Wikipedia.
If you have a way of letting this admin know what is going on, he may have opinions on all this, since he implicitly acknowledged anon IP use was OK just two days ago. 05:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC) ParkSehJik ( talk) 05:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
By avoiding "too much aggrivation", we end up with a Traditional Chinese Medicine arricle that does not even mention that it is alternative medicine! Apeasement does not work, and never has.
Other than five editors objecting to Academic Medicine, Nature Medicine, NSF, and New York Academy of Sciences as sources (the latter of which it appears few have read, despite it being the seminal source on the topic, from which almost all the others can be traced, even NSF.) Other than them, it appears there is rough consensus on the article so far.
The whole point of the NYAS article (read it) is this "caving in" to "just getting along", and not be "contentious", which is how the Traditional Chinese Medicine article ended up having all science scrubbed, all mention that it is a deliberate fraud by Mao, and not even calling it "alternative medicine", giving it scientific respectablity by default. That s how propoganda works - calling the enemy names and getting them shut down from speaking by the name calling, all without evidence (diffs).
Ironically, Sampson, the guy heading the delegation of one of the most pre-eminent debunking scientists ever assempbled, the one that uncovered that acupunture and TCM was a Communist plot (paranoid as it sounds, that is what happened), ended up being forced into early retirement for being "contentious" about Stanford funding acupuncture research, despite the delegation's findings, and refusing to treat with "dignity and respect" the "MD" claiming to have found "positive results" for acupuncture and asking and getting more funding (i.e., postive results for the fraud that was alrady known to be nothging but a Communist plot, later to be discovered to be another fraud, this time an academic fraud, but leaving that MD in place, and Sampson as emeritus! LOL but its not funny.) Editors at that article should read the sources before caving in to the "truth by consensus" relativism pointed out in the NYAS article. I will see what I can do about someone in our group posting it somewhere, since none of us now appear able to edit on the article in which we have expertise.
What the likely outcome of this will be is not improving WIkipedia, but taking out the simple fact that alt med is what the article currently says it is, and what the sources say in support of this. Alt med may be unconventional and not under the "dominant orthodoxy" (i.e., science, but obscured in the Marxist WHO wording). But that is not what defines it. What defines it is a deliberate use of language to create the appearance of efficacy and consistency with science by the very words (alternative, complementary, integrative), when this is false, and by it not being based on science (however poorly eb-medicine is based on science, it at least purports to try to be so based), but being based on superstition or fraud (all the other words defining it are subsumed by these two). This is not a POV, it is a fact. (Facts only have POVs in abstract philosophy courses with extreme examples in slippery slope arguments.) ParkSehJik ( talk) 14:55, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Just in case you find a way to contribute ... Request initiated for the article Alternative medicine to be moved to Complementary and alternative medicine. I'm notifying you as major contributor to the article. Relevant talk page discussion found here. FiachraByrne ( talk) 02:56, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article John Wallace Diesel is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Wallace Diesel (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Kindzmarauli ( talk) 22:57, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Florida Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Since you had some involvement with the Florida Institute for Complementary and Alternative Medicine redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Bangalamania ( talk) 19:14, 28 July 2018 (UTC)