This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries. |
|
Hi, have you previously edited Homeopathy or related articles under a different account? If so could you provide a link to them or name them here. Be aware that homeopathy and other pseudoscience articles are under special editing measures, as detailed on the talk page. All the best, Verbal chat 08:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Please be aware that Homeopathy and other pseudoscience and fringe topics are under special measures, as described on the talk page, and that large or controversial edits should be discussed on the talk page first. Also, please familiaries yourself with WP:RS and WP:MEDRS. I'm afraid homeopathyworld.com and similar meet neither criteria. Thanks, Verbal chat 11:58, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
"Not wedded to" doesn't mean that I might not side on including "quackery" in the lead. You shouldn't leap to conclusions on consensus like that, and immediately trying to make naturopathy follow your lead on removing quackery is not good practice, nor is it logical. Fences and windows ( talk) 23:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Please do not paste in text, as you have done on at least two occassions:
This is a copyvio of http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/research/the_evidence_for_homeopathy.html, and this inserts text from http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Homeopathy.
This is in violation of WP:COPYVIO, and is not permitted on Wikipedia. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 15:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
You have now added the tag in 23 March [1], 25th March [2] and 28th March [3]. It should be clear to you now that it's not going to stick unless you give a convincing explanation in the talk page, which you have not done.
If you keep adding the POV tag I'll report you as doing disruptive editing, understood? Go to the talk page and give some compelling reason of exactly what is POV in the article, and give some good sources to support your point. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 13:30, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
As a motion amending the above-named Arbitration case, the Arbitration committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to pseudoscience. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described here and below.
These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.
Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.
This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here. PhilKnight ( talk) 01:54, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
An arbcom request is the last step in WP:DR. What other steps have you attempted? Also, there currently is no homeopathy ArbCom request, so please stop placing notices on talk pages - it is disruptive. Read WP:DR and follow the steps there (such as an RfC), and remove your incorrect notices please. Verbal chat 10:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, personally I think the POV tag on the homeopathy article is a borderline case. The article has severe quality issues that should be addressed by adding additional information and removing some unnecessary repetitions. But the only thing I am strongly concerned about is the last sentence of the lede, which frames the entire article. I would support a POV-intro tag, but not a POV tag for the entire article. So it looks to me as if you are starting a fight that you can't win.
Arbcom has a function somewhat analogous to the Supreme Court in the US. Formally, before you can go to Arbcom you must exhaust the other formal dispute resolution methods such as WP:RfC. Look at the section "Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried" here to see an example of what is not sufficient. Note that there was an Arbcom case about the homeopathy article last year: WP:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy. Apart from some funny "discretionary sanctions" the only outcome was that Dana Ullman got a 1-year ban from Wikipedia.
I believe Wikipedia has a systemic bias against homeopathy and similar practices for the following reasons. There is a lot of advocacy for extremely fringe topics going on here, prompting a large number of editors and admins to adopt a general fringe-fighting mindset that can lead to throwing out the child with the bathwater. Obviously there tends to be a lot of solidarity between them. There are probably more "pro-fringe" editors, especially if we assume the extremely inclusive definitions that some here like to use. But solidarity between a homeopath, someone who believes Gödel's incompleteness theorem is false, someone who believes in cold fusion and someone who believes in ra (channeled entity), is much less likely, and they are overall more likely to restrict their editing to small areas. Both points make them vulnerable, and it seems wise not to overplay your cards.
I hope this helps to get some perspective. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 11:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I think this necessary. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 18:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Please understand that noone wants to ban you from Wikipedia: At most, you'd simply be asked to edit some other things for awhile, to get a bit more used to Wikipedia before continuing with the controversial parts.
It's hard being new to Wikipedia, and the article Homeopathy, a place with a long history of compromise and discussion, is a particularly difficult place to start in. If you spent some time editing, say, articles on history, geography, or the like, you'd probably be fine - and noone wants to stop you doing that.
The only recommendation I have is to be very careful to avoid copyvio - pasting things in from other websites, etc.
Good luck! Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I have been getting mail privately, but it took me some time to figure out how to do it privately, so for the newcomers, if you want to e-mail me, please click on the 'E-mail this user' link, under the toolbox heading in the column on the left to e-mail me privately through wikipedia. I'm not gonna post my e-mail address here!- NootherIDAvailable ( talk) 06:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
"
You guys aren't allowing me to mention the positive studies"
I now oppose it being a Good Article as well, for the same reasons-mainly because every sentence/statement is criticised and no defense is being allowed
I have not taken the time to look at all of your previous edits. Could you briefly describe an example of "the positive studies" and the type of "defense" you would like to see in the
Homeopathy article? Maybe you have already done this; if so, please provide a link. --
JWSchmidt (
talk) 16:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our
guide to appealing blocks first.
Tim Vickers (
talk) 22:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dr.Jhingaadey
NootherIDAvailable ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
What Jhingaadey? That isn't me! I haven't even edited any article on wikipedia for more than a month now and so I don't think a ban/block is in order
Decline reason:
Per diff linked below. — Daniel Case ( talk) 16:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I ran a checkuser query on this user and his IPs overlap closely with the ones listed at Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dr.Jhingaadey. If the behavior is the same, then I'd say it's near-certain to be a match. Raul654 ( talk) 17:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
The editor who created this account apparently intends to continue editing Wikipedia. I will refer to this editor as " Dr.Jhingade" because as far as I know, that was the first account used by the editor. That account was blocked for "spamming Wikipedia articles" according to the blocking administrator. This initial block was a block of indefinite duration that has become a community ban. When I look at the edits of Dr.Jhingade I see a Wikipedia newbie editor who stated that he was unhappy about the information provided by Wikipedia about Homeopathy. I do not think "Dr.Jhingade" was functioning as a conventional spammer. I think "Dr.Jhingade" was making a good faith effort to improve the content of the encyclopedia, but "Dr.Jhingade" has no idea about how to participate at Wikipedia. At the same time when the "Dr.Jhingade" was being indef blocked, two other editors went to his talk page to explain what he was doing wrong, as is general procedure at Wikipedia where we " should generally ensure that users are aware of policies, and give them reasonable opportunity to adjust their behaviour accordingly, before blocking".
The terse message left by the blocking administrator on Dr.Jhingade's user talk page said that he was blocked for vandalism. I do not agree that "Dr.Jhingade" was a vandal and I do not think he should have been indef blocked without warning. " Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism". In addition, the blocking administrator placed User talk:Dr.Jhingade into the category Category:Temporary Wikipedian userpages and the page was soon deleted, preventing anyone from using the page as a place to help "Dr.Jhingade" learn about the correct way to edit Wikipedia. "Dr.Jhingade" has expressed to me directly the sentiment that he does not feel he was treated fairly at Wikipedia by being blocked without warning. I have investigated the blocking administrator's actions and I feel that this was a poorly handled way of welcoming a new editor to Wikipedia. Further, the harsh response from the blocking administrator appears to be part of a pattern of difficult to understand actions related to Homeopathy. For example, about a week after the block of "Dr.Jhingade", the Homeopathy page was under probation and administrators could impose topic bans on editors. The rules for this probation period said that " Editors must be individually notified of article probation before being banned. As documented at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation, User:Georgewilliamherbert, the administrator who blocked the "Dr.Jhingade" account, imposed two editing bans (" infophile banned from talk for 24 hrs" and an editor from 213.200.67.154 was "indefinitely banned from Talk:Homeopathy for disruptive comments") early in February without warning either editor. This indicates to me a pattern of actions by User:Georgewilliamherbert in which he was too quick to impose blocks and bans without first giving warnings. In explaining his failure to warn "Dr.Jhingade" before imposing a block, Georgewilliamherbert made the point that: " We have finite time and attention". By his own words, Georgewilliamherbert agrees that " If the policy said "must warn" and I didn't due to time constraints that would be an abuse of power". I think the record shows that "Dr.Jhingade" is justified to feel that he was not treated fairly when he first edited at Wikipedia. Rather than welcoming a potential contributor and explaining to him how to participate, "Dr.Jhingade" was just given reason to think that Wikipedia was unfairly preventing the whole story of homeopathy from being told.
I agree that "Dr.Jhingade" is a difficult case, but his recent edits indicate to me that he is interested in improving Wikipedia. I am willing to mentor "Dr.Jhingade". If he is willing to restrict his editing at Wikipedia to the user space of a single account, then I will discuss with him his suggestions for how to improve Homeopathy and other Wikipedia articles. If he limits his editing to making useful suggestion on his userpage, then it might be possible for him to contribute to Wikipedia without disrupting other editors. -- JWSchmidt ( talk) 15:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
A thread has been started to discuss this whole matter:
If anyone has an interest in the matter, they are welcome to participate. The wider the community input, the better. -- Brangifer ( talk) 17:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries. |
|
Hi, have you previously edited Homeopathy or related articles under a different account? If so could you provide a link to them or name them here. Be aware that homeopathy and other pseudoscience articles are under special editing measures, as detailed on the talk page. All the best, Verbal chat 08:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Please be aware that Homeopathy and other pseudoscience and fringe topics are under special measures, as described on the talk page, and that large or controversial edits should be discussed on the talk page first. Also, please familiaries yourself with WP:RS and WP:MEDRS. I'm afraid homeopathyworld.com and similar meet neither criteria. Thanks, Verbal chat 11:58, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
"Not wedded to" doesn't mean that I might not side on including "quackery" in the lead. You shouldn't leap to conclusions on consensus like that, and immediately trying to make naturopathy follow your lead on removing quackery is not good practice, nor is it logical. Fences and windows ( talk) 23:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Please do not paste in text, as you have done on at least two occassions:
This is a copyvio of http://www.britishhomeopathic.org/research/the_evidence_for_homeopathy.html, and this inserts text from http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Homeopathy.
This is in violation of WP:COPYVIO, and is not permitted on Wikipedia. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 15:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
You have now added the tag in 23 March [1], 25th March [2] and 28th March [3]. It should be clear to you now that it's not going to stick unless you give a convincing explanation in the talk page, which you have not done.
If you keep adding the POV tag I'll report you as doing disruptive editing, understood? Go to the talk page and give some compelling reason of exactly what is POV in the article, and give some good sources to support your point. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 13:30, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
As a motion amending the above-named Arbitration case, the Arbitration committee has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to pseudoscience. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad editing restrictions, described here and below.
These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.
Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.
This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged here. PhilKnight ( talk) 01:54, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
An arbcom request is the last step in WP:DR. What other steps have you attempted? Also, there currently is no homeopathy ArbCom request, so please stop placing notices on talk pages - it is disruptive. Read WP:DR and follow the steps there (such as an RfC), and remove your incorrect notices please. Verbal chat 10:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, personally I think the POV tag on the homeopathy article is a borderline case. The article has severe quality issues that should be addressed by adding additional information and removing some unnecessary repetitions. But the only thing I am strongly concerned about is the last sentence of the lede, which frames the entire article. I would support a POV-intro tag, but not a POV tag for the entire article. So it looks to me as if you are starting a fight that you can't win.
Arbcom has a function somewhat analogous to the Supreme Court in the US. Formally, before you can go to Arbcom you must exhaust the other formal dispute resolution methods such as WP:RfC. Look at the section "Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried" here to see an example of what is not sufficient. Note that there was an Arbcom case about the homeopathy article last year: WP:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy. Apart from some funny "discretionary sanctions" the only outcome was that Dana Ullman got a 1-year ban from Wikipedia.
I believe Wikipedia has a systemic bias against homeopathy and similar practices for the following reasons. There is a lot of advocacy for extremely fringe topics going on here, prompting a large number of editors and admins to adopt a general fringe-fighting mindset that can lead to throwing out the child with the bathwater. Obviously there tends to be a lot of solidarity between them. There are probably more "pro-fringe" editors, especially if we assume the extremely inclusive definitions that some here like to use. But solidarity between a homeopath, someone who believes Gödel's incompleteness theorem is false, someone who believes in cold fusion and someone who believes in ra (channeled entity), is much less likely, and they are overall more likely to restrict their editing to small areas. Both points make them vulnerable, and it seems wise not to overplay your cards.
I hope this helps to get some perspective. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 11:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I think this necessary. Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 18:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Please understand that noone wants to ban you from Wikipedia: At most, you'd simply be asked to edit some other things for awhile, to get a bit more used to Wikipedia before continuing with the controversial parts.
It's hard being new to Wikipedia, and the article Homeopathy, a place with a long history of compromise and discussion, is a particularly difficult place to start in. If you spent some time editing, say, articles on history, geography, or the like, you'd probably be fine - and noone wants to stop you doing that.
The only recommendation I have is to be very careful to avoid copyvio - pasting things in from other websites, etc.
Good luck! Shoemaker's Holiday ( talk) 09:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I have been getting mail privately, but it took me some time to figure out how to do it privately, so for the newcomers, if you want to e-mail me, please click on the 'E-mail this user' link, under the toolbox heading in the column on the left to e-mail me privately through wikipedia. I'm not gonna post my e-mail address here!- NootherIDAvailable ( talk) 06:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
"
You guys aren't allowing me to mention the positive studies"
I now oppose it being a Good Article as well, for the same reasons-mainly because every sentence/statement is criticised and no defense is being allowed
I have not taken the time to look at all of your previous edits. Could you briefly describe an example of "the positive studies" and the type of "defense" you would like to see in the
Homeopathy article? Maybe you have already done this; if so, please provide a link. --
JWSchmidt (
talk) 16:27, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our
guide to appealing blocks first.
Tim Vickers (
talk) 22:42, 6 June 2009 (UTC)Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dr.Jhingaadey
NootherIDAvailable ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
What Jhingaadey? That isn't me! I haven't even edited any article on wikipedia for more than a month now and so I don't think a ban/block is in order
Decline reason:
Per diff linked below. — Daniel Case ( talk) 16:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I ran a checkuser query on this user and his IPs overlap closely with the ones listed at Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Dr.Jhingaadey. If the behavior is the same, then I'd say it's near-certain to be a match. Raul654 ( talk) 17:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
The editor who created this account apparently intends to continue editing Wikipedia. I will refer to this editor as " Dr.Jhingade" because as far as I know, that was the first account used by the editor. That account was blocked for "spamming Wikipedia articles" according to the blocking administrator. This initial block was a block of indefinite duration that has become a community ban. When I look at the edits of Dr.Jhingade I see a Wikipedia newbie editor who stated that he was unhappy about the information provided by Wikipedia about Homeopathy. I do not think "Dr.Jhingade" was functioning as a conventional spammer. I think "Dr.Jhingade" was making a good faith effort to improve the content of the encyclopedia, but "Dr.Jhingade" has no idea about how to participate at Wikipedia. At the same time when the "Dr.Jhingade" was being indef blocked, two other editors went to his talk page to explain what he was doing wrong, as is general procedure at Wikipedia where we " should generally ensure that users are aware of policies, and give them reasonable opportunity to adjust their behaviour accordingly, before blocking".
The terse message left by the blocking administrator on Dr.Jhingade's user talk page said that he was blocked for vandalism. I do not agree that "Dr.Jhingade" was a vandal and I do not think he should have been indef blocked without warning. " Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism". In addition, the blocking administrator placed User talk:Dr.Jhingade into the category Category:Temporary Wikipedian userpages and the page was soon deleted, preventing anyone from using the page as a place to help "Dr.Jhingade" learn about the correct way to edit Wikipedia. "Dr.Jhingade" has expressed to me directly the sentiment that he does not feel he was treated fairly at Wikipedia by being blocked without warning. I have investigated the blocking administrator's actions and I feel that this was a poorly handled way of welcoming a new editor to Wikipedia. Further, the harsh response from the blocking administrator appears to be part of a pattern of difficult to understand actions related to Homeopathy. For example, about a week after the block of "Dr.Jhingade", the Homeopathy page was under probation and administrators could impose topic bans on editors. The rules for this probation period said that " Editors must be individually notified of article probation before being banned. As documented at Talk:Homeopathy/Article probation, User:Georgewilliamherbert, the administrator who blocked the "Dr.Jhingade" account, imposed two editing bans (" infophile banned from talk for 24 hrs" and an editor from 213.200.67.154 was "indefinitely banned from Talk:Homeopathy for disruptive comments") early in February without warning either editor. This indicates to me a pattern of actions by User:Georgewilliamherbert in which he was too quick to impose blocks and bans without first giving warnings. In explaining his failure to warn "Dr.Jhingade" before imposing a block, Georgewilliamherbert made the point that: " We have finite time and attention". By his own words, Georgewilliamherbert agrees that " If the policy said "must warn" and I didn't due to time constraints that would be an abuse of power". I think the record shows that "Dr.Jhingade" is justified to feel that he was not treated fairly when he first edited at Wikipedia. Rather than welcoming a potential contributor and explaining to him how to participate, "Dr.Jhingade" was just given reason to think that Wikipedia was unfairly preventing the whole story of homeopathy from being told.
I agree that "Dr.Jhingade" is a difficult case, but his recent edits indicate to me that he is interested in improving Wikipedia. I am willing to mentor "Dr.Jhingade". If he is willing to restrict his editing at Wikipedia to the user space of a single account, then I will discuss with him his suggestions for how to improve Homeopathy and other Wikipedia articles. If he limits his editing to making useful suggestion on his userpage, then it might be possible for him to contribute to Wikipedia without disrupting other editors. -- JWSchmidt ( talk) 15:58, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
A thread has been started to discuss this whole matter:
If anyone has an interest in the matter, they are welcome to participate. The wider the community input, the better. -- Brangifer ( talk) 17:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC)