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Speedy deletion nomination of Michael Moreci
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Please stop adding "of America" to references to the NRA. The article title is National Rifle Association and it is rarely described with the "of America". It may confuse others and certainly does not make any article more readable. Springee ( talk) 13:10, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ Springee:I am very specifically making clarifying edits to non-US-specific articles, along with a handful of articles where the name is used in the opening sentence, bereft of prior context. The most obvious are in a number of history-based articles where both the NRA(UK) and the NRA(America) are discussed in the same section, such as Wimbledon, London#Rifle shooting. Per MOS:UNDERLINK I am reaching a halfway house of providing a useful link whilst also not requiring a user to click through to establish which NRA is under discussion (this is also important where the text is printed, or cited outside of Wikipedia without links - DO NOT assume people can click the link. Content should be unambiguous when printed on a piece of paper).
- "Articles explaining words of technical terms, jargon or slang expressions or phrases—but you could also provide a concise definition instead of or in addition to a link."
- Use of the generic "NRA" to mean "NRA of America" is an abbreviation from it's proper, legal form, which can be clearer in circumstances where the link is not available.
- The abbreviated use perfectly reasonable in many cases, but not all. You will note that I have not changed any links from (for instance) articles on Wayne LaPierre or US politicians, where the context of of America is reasonably inferred or downright obvious. I have stuck specifically and carefully to non-US-centric articles where context might not be reasonably be inferred without clicking through.
- I would also note that if the "of America" is liable to cause confusion, then the redirect should not exist - but it does, because that is the proper name of the organisation and it is sometimes useful and clearer to use that full name.
Hemmers (
talk) 13:19, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not all of those were non-US articles and in many cases the intended organization was very clear. When it's something like the NCAA which regulates college athletics in the USA, specifying NRA of America is not only not necessary but might actually confuse people. It's like changing references to
Stanford University to
Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name. The problem is the overwhelming number of usages of NRA an National Rifle Association refer to the NRA of America. When you use a term that is not the common long form to refer to the well known organization people may not realize this is a reference to the common organization. However using it may actually confuse rather than clarify. Perhaps it would be good to raise this question on a noticeboard so it isn't just the two of us disagreeing.
Springee (
talk) 13:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ Springee: in many cases the intended organization was very clear.
- I (as a non-American) thought there was room for confusion. Hence why I changed them.
- It's like changing references to Stanford University to Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name.
- I would gently note that this is not a remotely fair comparison. To my knowledge there is no other university in Stanford with which it might be confused, much less a disambiguation page of all the other Stanford Universities. However, globally there are many organisations known entirely or partially as the "National Rifle Association" - which warrant a non-trivial disambiguation page. Furthermore, most exist in the anglosphere. In many cases the abbreviated form is sufficient in context, but not always.
- The redirect has been there since 2005, clearly I am not alone in thinking that it is sometimes useful to use the full/proper form.
- I will concede I did drift into the NCAA article, although it is somewhat of a stretch to imagine someone might actually be confused by the full form. Also, the NCAA now includes Canadian institutions as members (albeit only a couple), so there is now potential scope for confusion between US/Canadian bodies.
- Worth noting that the British NRA is actually legally founded as "National Rifle Association", not "National Rifle Association of the United Kingdom". The "of the UK" is only ever used online to disambiguate. It is somewhat tiresome for the rest of the world to have to tippy-toe around US exceptionalism. I accept and respect the consensus on WP:COMMONNAME, even if I disagree (on grounds of WP:GLOBAL). But even with the articles having the wrong names, it is not unreasonable in non-US or more generic articles to be explicit and spare the user clicking through (if they are even able to). This is EN:WP, not US:WP. However, I take your points and shall be more careful going forward not to remind Americans that their NRA is not the only NRA. Hemmers ( talk) 14:30, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not all of those were non-US articles and in many cases the intended organization was very clear. When it's something like the NCAA which regulates college athletics in the USA, specifying NRA of America is not only not necessary but might actually confuse people. It's like changing references to
Stanford University to
Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name. The problem is the overwhelming number of usages of NRA an National Rifle Association refer to the NRA of America. When you use a term that is not the common long form to refer to the well known organization people may not realize this is a reference to the common organization. However using it may actually confuse rather than clarify. Perhaps it would be good to raise this question on a noticeboard so it isn't just the two of us disagreeing.
Springee (
talk) 13:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating National Rifle Association of New Zealand.
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North8000 ( talk) 05:54, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating National Rifle Association of Australia.
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North8000 ( talk) 05:56, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating Michael Moreci.
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Pyrrho the Skipper ( talk) 17:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
Can you please stop adding “America” to the end of National Rifle Association? There isn’t a need to specify. It’s just like if you started adding “of the United States” after “President” in USA-centered articles. Thank you. FinnSoThin ( talk) 02:20, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
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Pyrrho the Skipper ( talk) 18:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Shooting at the 2026 Commonwealth Games
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Hello! I was looking over your new article, and wanted to let you know that I had tagged English Target Shooting Federation for notability (for now). Currently, the article does not have very usable references. Reference #1 only has the title exist as a name in a catalog, which is just a passing mention, and Reference #2 is the org's website. Ideally, it would be nice for the article to have reliable and secondary sources, which could possibly exist based on some of the preliminary searching that I did. In the meantime, I wanted to give you a heads up that it was tagged. Utopes ( talk / cont) 03:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
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Concern regarding Draft:BUCS Rifle Championships
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CS1 error on Sovereign's Prize
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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Shooting at the 2018 Commonwealth Games, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Alexander Walker ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Michael Moreci
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Please stop adding "of America" to references to the NRA. The article title is National Rifle Association and it is rarely described with the "of America". It may confuse others and certainly does not make any article more readable. Springee ( talk) 13:10, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ Springee:I am very specifically making clarifying edits to non-US-specific articles, along with a handful of articles where the name is used in the opening sentence, bereft of prior context. The most obvious are in a number of history-based articles where both the NRA(UK) and the NRA(America) are discussed in the same section, such as Wimbledon, London#Rifle shooting. Per MOS:UNDERLINK I am reaching a halfway house of providing a useful link whilst also not requiring a user to click through to establish which NRA is under discussion (this is also important where the text is printed, or cited outside of Wikipedia without links - DO NOT assume people can click the link. Content should be unambiguous when printed on a piece of paper).
- "Articles explaining words of technical terms, jargon or slang expressions or phrases—but you could also provide a concise definition instead of or in addition to a link."
- Use of the generic "NRA" to mean "NRA of America" is an abbreviation from it's proper, legal form, which can be clearer in circumstances where the link is not available.
- The abbreviated use perfectly reasonable in many cases, but not all. You will note that I have not changed any links from (for instance) articles on Wayne LaPierre or US politicians, where the context of of America is reasonably inferred or downright obvious. I have stuck specifically and carefully to non-US-centric articles where context might not be reasonably be inferred without clicking through.
- I would also note that if the "of America" is liable to cause confusion, then the redirect should not exist - but it does, because that is the proper name of the organisation and it is sometimes useful and clearer to use that full name.
Hemmers (
talk) 13:19, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not all of those were non-US articles and in many cases the intended organization was very clear. When it's something like the NCAA which regulates college athletics in the USA, specifying NRA of America is not only not necessary but might actually confuse people. It's like changing references to
Stanford University to
Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name. The problem is the overwhelming number of usages of NRA an National Rifle Association refer to the NRA of America. When you use a term that is not the common long form to refer to the well known organization people may not realize this is a reference to the common organization. However using it may actually confuse rather than clarify. Perhaps it would be good to raise this question on a noticeboard so it isn't just the two of us disagreeing.
Springee (
talk) 13:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ Springee: in many cases the intended organization was very clear.
- I (as a non-American) thought there was room for confusion. Hence why I changed them.
- It's like changing references to Stanford University to Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name.
- I would gently note that this is not a remotely fair comparison. To my knowledge there is no other university in Stanford with which it might be confused, much less a disambiguation page of all the other Stanford Universities. However, globally there are many organisations known entirely or partially as the "National Rifle Association" - which warrant a non-trivial disambiguation page. Furthermore, most exist in the anglosphere. In many cases the abbreviated form is sufficient in context, but not always.
- The redirect has been there since 2005, clearly I am not alone in thinking that it is sometimes useful to use the full/proper form.
- I will concede I did drift into the NCAA article, although it is somewhat of a stretch to imagine someone might actually be confused by the full form. Also, the NCAA now includes Canadian institutions as members (albeit only a couple), so there is now potential scope for confusion between US/Canadian bodies.
- Worth noting that the British NRA is actually legally founded as "National Rifle Association", not "National Rifle Association of the United Kingdom". The "of the UK" is only ever used online to disambiguate. It is somewhat tiresome for the rest of the world to have to tippy-toe around US exceptionalism. I accept and respect the consensus on WP:COMMONNAME, even if I disagree (on grounds of WP:GLOBAL). But even with the articles having the wrong names, it is not unreasonable in non-US or more generic articles to be explicit and spare the user clicking through (if they are even able to). This is EN:WP, not US:WP. However, I take your points and shall be more careful going forward not to remind Americans that their NRA is not the only NRA. Hemmers ( talk) 14:30, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not all of those were non-US articles and in many cases the intended organization was very clear. When it's something like the NCAA which regulates college athletics in the USA, specifying NRA of America is not only not necessary but might actually confuse people. It's like changing references to
Stanford University to
Leland Stanford Junior University since, well that is the full name. The problem is the overwhelming number of usages of NRA an National Rifle Association refer to the NRA of America. When you use a term that is not the common long form to refer to the well known organization people may not realize this is a reference to the common organization. However using it may actually confuse rather than clarify. Perhaps it would be good to raise this question on a noticeboard so it isn't just the two of us disagreeing.
Springee (
talk) 13:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating National Rifle Association of New Zealand.
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North8000 ( talk) 05:54, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating National Rifle Association of Australia.
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North8000 ( talk) 05:56, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Hemmers
Thank you for creating Michael Moreci.
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Pyrrho the Skipper ( talk) 17:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
Can you please stop adding “America” to the end of National Rifle Association? There isn’t a need to specify. It’s just like if you started adding “of the United States” after “President” in USA-centered articles. Thank you. FinnSoThin ( talk) 02:20, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
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Pyrrho the Skipper ( talk) 18:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Shooting at the 2026 Commonwealth Games
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The Tireless Contributor Barnstar |
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Hello! I was looking over your new article, and wanted to let you know that I had tagged English Target Shooting Federation for notability (for now). Currently, the article does not have very usable references. Reference #1 only has the title exist as a name in a catalog, which is just a passing mention, and Reference #2 is the org's website. Ideally, it would be nice for the article to have reliable and secondary sources, which could possibly exist based on some of the preliminary searching that I did. In the meantime, I wanted to give you a heads up that it was tagged. Utopes ( talk / cont) 03:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
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CS1 error on Sovereign's Prize
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