Please feel free to propose any changes at Talk:Yugoslavia or just be bold and make them. -- Joy [shallot] 23:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I am in fact Romanian, but not from Romania proper, but the Republic of Moldova, from Chişinău. -- TSO1D 04:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Of course like all other places, you have to take the good with the bad there.

The country has its share of problems, but it has a beautiful landscape,

friendly people, etc. TSO1D 04:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Now that's a politically loaded question. Traditionally they have been

viewed as Romanians, but after a few decades of Russian occupation of

Bessarabia a certain split took place in the identity of the population.

But there aren't any real or tangible differences, both speak the same language,

have the same customs and share a common history for the most part.

TSO1D 04:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

According to recent polls most Romanians want to unite, although a minority of the Moldovan populace favors this step at the moment. You are right in 1919 the two territories were united but that only lasted until '39 when the Soviets came. TSO1D 04:58, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Yes Romania is joining the EU in '07. If Moldova were to unite with Romania after that point they would automatically become EU members. Romanian President Băsescu actually made such a proposal to the Moldovan President Voronin, but was refused. And yes, you are right, Moldova by itself has little chance of entering the EU in the next 10 years. The current Moldovan leadership though is the direct successor of the former Communist Party and a big supporter of Moldovenism emphasizing the distinctiveness of Moldovans and they are not the biggest frineds of Romania. As for the benefits of unification, Moldova would certainly benefit more by having access to European markets and EU aid, but for Romania, its economic problems might be aggrevated initially to some extent by having to invest in consolidating Moldova's infrastructure. TSO1D 14:53, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Ok, was hoping it was a mistake, it's all good :) -- Lowg 04:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

I do have an interest now, mainly because there seems to be alot of POV pushing by certain editors, as well the random vandals in most articles I've seen. Did not expect to be spending so much time doing this, and will hopefully be able focus more in the future on improving quality of articles instead :) I'm from the United States. -- Lowg 04:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Just noticed diffs on Yugoslavia article and at glance, looks like you did a great job. It also does bothers me and I don't totally understand it myself. I think if everyone could get together and have articles consistant, but I honestly think that some here will never be able to think rationally. Name is in the signature ;) -- Lowg 05:05, 13 July 2006 (UTC) reply

If another article can be created or redirected to that covers a different meaning of "Serbo-Croatian", then a move of the language back to Serbo-Croatian language can be justified. I'm just trying to get rid of the notion that every language article must have "language" in the title because in English the name of a language is often homonymous with the corresponding ethnic or national adjective. -- Dissident ( Talk) 00:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC) reply

If you are sure that "Serbo-Croatian" can also be used to denote an ethnicity (something I'm a bit skeptical of) then a notice at the top wouldn't hurt of course. -- Dissident ( Talk) 01:10, 14 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Sorry for being cruel; I appreciate your work, but the images in stubs are really too small to be able to display anything that fancy. It is only my opinion, of course, but it's hardly recognizable that it's the Serbian flag displayed within. I don't want to push the issue too far; people would probably give their opinion.

How about the "waved" version without the coat of arms? I think it would be a good compromise between "fanciness" and recognizeability. Duja 07:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi. Sorry I didn't awnser immediately, but the thing had passed out of my mind. Really I'm the last guy you should ask this: if you look at the edit text you will see <!-- Idea stolen from Jcw69 page -->, who had taken it, slightly modified, from User:Coolcat. So really the model is not my merit, but User:Jcw69's. That said, I'm sure you can assume he will be happy that yet another editor plagiarizes his model, so I think you can directly imit it, or, if you prefer, ask him.-- Aldux 10:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello Avdo, I am still on my wiki holiday but I am missing wikipedia so much. Anyway about that milestone template, it's yours if you want to copy with all my blessings. I am just glad that it is getting some mileage. -- Jcw69 16:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Thank you very much :)))))))) -- GOD OF JUSTICE 19:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Zdravo Avdo. Iskreno da ti kazem, sumnjam da cu se vratiti u Bosnu. Bio sam vrlo mlad kad sam dosao i sad sam maltene vecinu zivota proveo ovdje. Takoder znam da stvari u Bosni, blago receno, nisu bas najbolje. Ovdje imam konkretne planove i znam kuda idem u zivotu, a da bi se sad vratio u BiH nisam siguran sta bi bilo. Gotovo svakog lijeta se vracam u Bosnu i mozda cu se nekad vratiti kad sam stariji (barem bi htio imati vikendicu negdje). Fino je ovdje u Americi; moj grad je sjajan mada nema puno nasih. Ipak, u nekim vecim gradovima Sjeverne Amerike ima dosta ljudi iz nasih krajeva (npr. Chicago, Toronto, St. Louis). Za razliku od Talijana, Iraca, Svedana i ostalih, "nasi" se nikad nisu naselili u jedno specificno podrucje. Ipak, prema procjenama, u Americi ima 393,147 ljudi Hrvatskog porijekla, 156,986 ljudi Srpskog porijekla, te jos 386,582 ljudi Jugoslavenskog porijekla i jedno najmanje 100,000 ljudi porijeklom iz Bosne i Hercegovine. Svugdje mozes naci tipicne Amerikance sa prezimenima koja zavrsavaju na "ovich". Live Forever 07:25, 18 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Zdravo!

The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if you play your cards right, you can burn the grease and the wheel with it. No amount of logical discussion is going to break a rigid ideology. If Socrates couldn't do it...

Cheers,

Guy Montag 06:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC) reply

שָׁלוֹם!

Thank you for the advice. I understand that some users will not change, and I am not trying to change them. I have tried to talk to one Albanian user that is accused of being a nationalist, Ferick, I have tried to see what makes him tick, what makes him do what he does, in a very frank and civilized manner. He was very hostile towards me, and I have given up on him. I know there are many Albanian users on this Wikipedia, but I have never come in direct contact with anyone except Ferick. I do not like to generalize, nationalism is a big word, in an encyclopedical sense, it's the thing that gives the right to a nation to form a country, while it usually gets mixed up with imperialism (or "big nationalism") that makes a nation want to rule another nation. Now, from what I have heard, Albanians do not have plans to rule over Serbia, they have never claimed control over Belgrade or Nis... If there are some Albanians that don't like Serbs, that doesn't make them nationalist - it makes them racist. Of course, I don't believe that all Albanians are like this, actually, I think it's only a minority, and mostly the ones that had direct experience with some Serbs, who do not accurately represent what the majority of Serbs think and believe. The majority of Serbs and Albanians do not hate each other, trust me, they have only been taught to think so. If the average Albanian got a gun and they put a Serbian 14-year old child in front of him, he would not shoot. Same thing goes for Serbs. We must release ourselved from the weight of the past, and learn how to share the Balkans, something we haven't been able to do for centuries. But, I'm optimistic, it's a new millenium, a new chance :)

Guy, sorry for writing so much, but I like to talk, especially about Balkan-related topics. I'd like to hear your opinion on what I wrote, so.. write soon :)

Cheers,

GOD OF JUSTICE

02:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Generally, I do not have a strong opinion on the Balkans, but I do understand nationalism and what drives it, as I am a nationalist myself. For example, I had a conversation with a Polish nationalist who believed that Bismack hated the Poles and his foreign policy was aimed against them exclusively. Being an avid historical enthusiast and coming from Eastern Europe, I completely disagreed with him. We had a pretty civil discussion but what it came down to is that Bismarck is the national boogeyman of Poland, and no amount of historical fact will persuade him otherwise because that idea is so interwoven with the "national saga" of Poland and their victimization at the hands of the Germans. When it comes to the Balkans, we are talking about a national saga that goes back to the year 1400 when Serbia fought Muslim invaders from getting a foothold in Europe. When we are talking about Serbs and Albanians, you are talking about ancestors of those people that fought at the Battle of Kosovo. Anything that has to do with today's prejudices are related with that battle and its aftermath, and has nothing to do with individuals but with the collective memory and history imposed through ethnic interpertation of events. When Ferick was talking to you, he was talking to a Serb and for him Serb has historical connotations which contradict his goals. Don't take his hostility personally. When nationalists are still unsure in their beliefs, they will subsume their entire personality into the historical memory of their ethnicity. It becomes amplified and rigid. Some people become more understanding and sure in their beliefs that they are able to have civil discussions, sometimes the rigid historical memory superimposes even into the adult life. Those people become truly dangerous and fanatical.

As for me, I sympathize with Serbs, if for no other reason than because of a similiar history and because Serbian partisans saved my grandparents from the Ustashe. When every other group in that region fell to fascism, the Serbs didn't. I didn't agree with the NATO bombing compaign in Kosovo and sympathize with the raw deal that Serbs have received for hundreds of years. As you might understand, when a nation loses the right to the cradle of its civilization, it strikes a deep cord with me. Anyways, I don't know specifics of what grudges are held against who for what, {I have enough problems keeping track of the grievances in the Middle East :)] but I wish your people a prosperous future and a quick adventageous solution in Kosovo and other regions.

P.S. Looks like I wrote a little more than you hehe.

Sincerely,

Guy Montag 04:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Yes, you did write a little bit more :)

Well, first of all, I'd like to point out that I'm not a Serb. My ethnicity is mixed and this is why I declare myself Yugoslav, even though not many people use that term anymore. I am not a nationalist, that would be impossible in my situation.

I have always felt the weight of history in the Balkans. Nothing is simple here. The history of the region has always been very turbulent, because it was and still is the crossroads between the West and the East. Everybody wants a part of the Balkans.

As far as Kosovo is concerned, I think that Serbia does deserve it, since basically all of the Serbian monasteries are there, and it has always been the centre of the Serbian Empire. But, in light of today's situation, Kosovo must become independent. This is why: Albanians are a majority there, and are hostile towards Serbs. Most of them don't know why, they were just taught to think that way. Now, they have been asking for independence since 1981., and if they don't get it now, they'll probably never get it, because this is their best chance - Serbia has no real control over Kosovo, Milosevic made huge mistakes and basically helped the Albanians to get support from the West (and we all know who controls the show in the Balkans)... If Kosovo stays in Serbia now, the Albanians will not be happy, and there will be further conflicts. Maybe a new war. This is not what the Balkans need right now. Besides, when Kosovo becomes independent, Serbia will be in the EU faster, because Kosovo is the biggest problem of Europe, as it is the poorest region. History is weighing down the people of the Balkans. What happened, happened, nothing can be changed. Why torture the 1.5 million Albanians that want independence? Because of something that happened in 1389? Because of a few historical buildings, that probably won't be burned down if Kosovo becomes independent (If Albanians get what they want, they won't have any reasons to be angry, right?)? Yes, Kosovo is the holy land for Serbs, but why don't they go there and live there if its so important to them? There is 11 million Serbs, why don't they go to Kosovo and make up the majority so that the Albanians would be the minority? Its more a case of "inat" (i'm not sure you've heard of the word, check it out on the net). Well, sorry for not answering sooner, I was busy.

I like talking to you, please leave me another message soon.

All the best, -- GOD OF JUSTICE 03:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey, not meaning to critcise you, but Kosovar Albanians do know why they have an ingrained dislike for Serbs. And it's a damn good reason; because of the way they were treated in the 90's, and because of what Serbian forces did in Kosovo during the war. I'm not trying to get into an arguement with you, but Milosevic really shot you guys in the foot as far as retaining Kosovo goes. Before he started rolling back autonomy, most Albanians probably would have been happy enough to remain part of Yugoslavia. Just look at how long it took for them to abandon peaceful resistance. It was only after Milosevic revived the spectre of Serbian Nationalism that Albanian Nationalism really got a foothold in Kosovo. Davu.leon 10:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC) reply

I respect your opinion. You might be right. :) -- GOD OF JUSTICE 00:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I was on vacation (in Serbia and Croatia obviously) and did not have much time to respond. Anyways, "Miloš" as he was called by his buddies will forever be one of those players hidden in the mysts of the past. He played for Metz in France, I believe the only way to find out where he was born is to contact either Metz or Partizan and see what his work permit said =). I'll probably get on it once I'm finished all the seasons, but that's a couple months away. -- Hurricane Angel 16:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC) reply

No rush, thanks for showing interest in the topic :) All the best, -- GOD OF JUSTICE 03:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Avdo. Give a look at WP:ADMIN; as is said there, admins are normal editors that "are active and regular Wikipedians who have access to technical features that help with maintenance." (like deleting or protecting pages, or blocking editors) Believe me, it's no great deal to be an admin, and many of our best and most experienced editors are not admins. And yes, anybody can try to become an admin, but before has to pass a votation, in which all users can partecipate; see WP:RFA. Give a look there to the questions made to the current candidates and their awnsers, and the reasons adduced for supporting or opposing; this will give you some idea of what is expected from an admin. In particular, requested things are 1) a certain level of experience, not less than 3 months and often more than 6, with a lot of edits 2) not being controversial; no edit-warring or pov-pushing, being civil, and possibly having no blocks 3) good quality edits and especially to interact with other editors. Also one should consider that if you edit on certain controversial topics, like the Balkans, its much harder to become an admin than if you occupy yourself of american telefilms or French municipalities. For this there are so few Balkan admins, even if there are 1000 admins. For example, I don't believe there is any Serbian or Bosnian or Macedonian or Albanian or Greek or Bulgarian admin; this is generally for encroaching national vetos at the admin votations. Hope what I told you helps, and if you have anything else to ask, don't take problems asking! Ciao,-- Aldux 22:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey man, the way that the {{ Infobox Former Country}} works is that it goes on a timeline, so the appropriate flag is the Macedonian flag of the era. If you disagree you should bring it up with the WikiProject or on the talk page. Btw, nice to see another sh-N user around :) - Francis Tyers · 22:41, 9 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Hmm, not sure, I think there is some kind of chronology, so if you click the arrow, you go through time. You'd have to ask the Wikipedia:WikiProject Former countries people I think. I don't know much about it. - Francis Tyers · 23:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC) reply

Nice work implementing the former country infobox in the Nedić's Serbia article. For future reference, since this template is quite complicated and still under development, a detailed set of instructions for using the template are given here. Keep up the good work. - 52 Pickup 18:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC) reply

I just wanted to say thanks for your excellent recent contribs, from {{ Subotica Labelled Map}} to the pronunciation audio recordings you have created, I am extremely impressed and I hope you keep it up! :) // Laughing Man 15:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC) reply

I've edited the template somewhat to add in floating / margins with a div tag. You don't need to specify |float=right in the tag now, which makes it easier for others to use. -- Consumed Crustacean ( talk) 03:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Sorry, forgot one thing. Just added clear:right to it. My CSS-foo isn't strong. This should let it cooperate with other right-floating templates, automatically going below them rather than to their left. -- Consumed Crustacean ( talk) 09:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Dakle, stavio sam novu mapu i taj problem je rešen, ali postoji još jedan: ovo je skrinšot iz članka Mala Bosna: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sub301.png a ovo iz članka Bikovo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sub302.png Nadam se da ti je jasno koji su problemi u pitanju i kako ti predlažeš da ih rešimo? PANONIAN (talk) 17:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Honestly, thinking about this now that I'm actually awake, I think a better solution would be to do something like what Europe does; they have the main map only on one article. It's very large and clutters up the monitor on other pages, especially for people with smaller monitors. It's also not clear how exactly it relates to each of the individual articles. On the articles of the specific locations, you should instead use a location map. -- Consumed Crustacean ( talk) 20:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Sve ok, sada vidim mapu i 300px nije preveliko. PANONIAN (talk) 22:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Imam samo one mape opština koje sam ubacio na Vikipediju. Druge ćeš morati sam da pronađeš. PANONIAN (talk) 22:41, 10 December 2006 (UTC) reply

"Kad bi mi dao linkove za mape koje si poslao Wikipediji, olaksao bi mi posao"

Sve imaš ovde:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PANONIAN/Maps

Ako nisu sve tu, odatle imaš link do još dve galerije. PANONIAN (talk) 23:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC) reply

You should get a star. I like your unbias view on the Balkans God Bless Jagoda 1 00:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

TO STAR MAN 'Dao sam ti zvezdu jer vidim da si neutralan. Razume svi kad kazem da je vrlo dobro biti neutralan na Wiki. Prevse ima nacionlista na Wiki i nazalost to se gura do problema. Drago mi je vidit da ima dobrih ljudi kao ti u svetu.'Zvezda je zasluzna''''. Jagoda 1 01:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Avdo, sorry for not replying to your earlier message; I'm fairly busy these days.

Heck people, do you really have to quarrel about so ephemeric things? Did you finally arrive at a consensus—seems so, but did it have to make it to WP:AN? Panonian does have a too short nerves on occasion—he even admitted it a couple of times.

On to the subject matter: I think 300px presents a reasonable compromise between readability and size. A scalable map of Serbian municipalities can be found at http://www.srbija.sr.gov.yu/uploads/dokumenti/teritorijalna_podela.pdf, although I don't know how to extract the vector image—some PDF-decompiling tool? It contains only the municipality borders though. Panonian has a pdf with (early) census results, containing also the list of settlements, which I plan to use to replace current List of places in Serbia. I don't know about any detailed map with settlement locations though. Duja ► 10:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

E Dujo, nisu ono što sam ti poslao "(early) census results" već konačni i zvanični. Što se tiče mapa opština sa naseljima, koliko ja znam jedini način da se takve mape nađu je preko Google ili Yahoo search-a, pa ono šta se nađe, šta se ne nađe, jebi ga. Nego, ti Avdo, imam još jednu primedbu na tvoju mapu: opet ne znam kako ti to vidiš, ali kod mene se ime Bački Vinogradi preklapa sa imenom Šupljak, pa jel možeš da ih razdvojiš nekako? PANONIAN (talk) 15:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

E sam sam rešio problem sa Bačkim Vinogradima. Sad sam naučio kako da koristim x-y koordinate u ovim interaktivnim mapama. :))) PANONIAN (talk) 16:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

This .pdf file is exactly what I need, I'm gonna make a new map for Subotica municipality, so that all the maps are in similar principle (same style). I can just extract the map that I need, make the other borders gray, while the municipality borders are black and the fill is some light color. -- GOD OF JUSTICE 21:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Nisam stigao pre da ti odgovorim ali nemam primedbi na mapu NS. Međutim, drugi korisnik je već uradio jednu drugačiju mapu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Veternik_map.PNG Da li se od te mape može napraviti interaktivna? PANONIAN (talk) 01:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Kako god, meni je svejedno koju ćeš mapu koristiti. Međutim postoji jedan problem sa tim interaktivnim mapama koji si prevideo: Mnogi korisnici će želeti da te mape sačuvaju u svoj računar, a kod tih interaktivnih mapa jedino mogu sačuvati praznu mapu bez teksta. Jel imaš neki predlog kako rešiti taj problem? PANONIAN (talk) 01:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Ok, iako rešenje nije savršeno, tamo gde već postoje stare mape opština koje sam ja radio, možemo njih staviti umesto skrinšotova (to sam već uradio kod mape Subotice), mada je pitanje da li će svi korisnici primetiti te druge mape i skrinšotove. Ja lično nemam vremena da uzimam skrinšotove, jer imam druga posla trenutno, inače da li možda imaš mapu opštine Medveđa sa ucrtanim svim naseljima, jer hoću da napravim etničku mapu te opštine, ali nemam od cega da je nacrtam? PANONIAN (talk) 01:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

I još nešto, ako već mape praviš od ovog PDF dokumenta sa Dujinog linka kako ćeš napraviti mapu naselja u svim opštinama, kad u tom dokumentu nema ucrtanih naselja? Imaš li neki drugi izvor za naselja? PANONIAN (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Hm, prema dokumentu sa popisa stanovništva, u opštini Medveđa treba da ima 44 naselja, a na tvojoj mapi ima samo 13. Imaš li možda mapu sa svim naseljima? :) PANONIAN (talk) 02:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Pa ta naselja kod Pančeva se obično nazivaju zaseoci i klasifikuju kao deo većih naselja. Međutim u opštini Medveđa zvanično postoji upravo 44 naselja a ne zaseoka. Izgleda da su na toj mapi koju si ti našao prikazali samo veća naselja, ali bi meni trebala detaljna mapa koja pokazuje sva naselja, jer ja imam podatke o etničkom sastavu svakog od ta 44 naselja, pa bih da nacrtam etničku kartu koja to ilustruje. PANONIAN (talk) 02:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Ma dobro nema veze, pitao sam ako slučajno imaš takvu mapu, ako nemaš, ne moraš je sad tražiti, naći će se valjda jednom. E da, samo u vezi članka Palić: u taj infobox se obično stavlja slika panorame grada (kao na primer u članku Niš. Mislim da je glupo staviti sliku samo jednog objekta u gradu ili jezera. Dok ne budemo imali sliku panorame, mislim da one dve slike treba držati izvan infoboxa. PANONIAN (talk) 02:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

O što vas volim kad pričate na dve strane, ne može čovek da se uključi...

Ja pravim bazu podataka o naseljima od onog što mi je poslao Panonian (i još par izvora). Kvaka je što je za veliki broj mesta (oko 500) potreban "disambiguation" pošto se imena ponavljaju: ima šurnaest Kamenica, Leskovaca, Brezovaca, Novih Sela itd, a da ne pričam o "disambiguation-u" sa susednim državama (za koje i ne znam). To će biti gotovo za par dana pa ću vas uputiti na listu. Dotle, slobodno pravi(te) mape, samo što će biti problem što se puno vukojebina vodi kao naselje a nema ih na kartama. Ja koristim ovaj sajt za lokaciju koordinata, samo što su mu mape loše. http://www.flashearth.com ima najbolje mape. Duja ► 14:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Ok, that is better. Čenej must be a little higher; and you must add in title City of Novi Sad, and beside add flag and coat of arms, and not beside municipalities, because municipalities doesn't have coat of arms, and are not recognized by state authorities, and doesnt have its own "autonomy" (so its stupid to put Serbian flag beside them). And also put interlink on Petrovaradin municipality. -- Göran Smith 22:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Reason why I don't want to edit, because i know these templates are sensitive and I'm not such a expert for them. Novi Sad and Petrovaradin doesn't have coat of arms, and that map you created is a map of "Novi Sad-Grad" or "City of Novi Sad" and you divided City of Novi Sad into two municipalities, Novi Sad municipality and Petrovaradin (see one again Politics of Novi Sad, if you don't believe me). Cities, towns and villages doesn't have it own coat of arms, municipalities and cities with city status have. Municipalities of Novi Sad doesn't have coat of arms. -- Göran Smith 22:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Čejen dot must be higher, picture is not right. See that dark place, eastern from Kisač... that is where Čenej must be. -- Göran Smith 23:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Wow, thats great! svaka čast :))) btw na tim mapama samo daj kategoriju Category:Dynamic map templates -- Göran Smith 23:59, 14 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi, I recategorized the existing template maps, so that they all should go into that category in the future. If I missed some, please copy&paste the category to those. Regards, Duja ► 11:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC) reply

Beograd je ogroman i tehnički je veoma teško (ako ne i nemoguće) da napraviš mapu celog Beograda gde će se videti sva naselja. Čak i ako je napraviš ta mapa bi bila ogromna i teško upotrebljiva na Vikipediji. Dakle, najbolje napravi za svaku beogradsku opštinu posebno. A što se manjih opština tiče, ubaci njihove nazive posebno (u legendu pored mape). PANONIAN (talk) 13:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC) reply

"Je li mozes da mi nabavis mape opstina Beograda sa svim naseljima?"

Nemam te mape. I ove mape što sam ja radio sam našao preko Google search, pa sam od njih napravio nove. Ako nešto nađem reći ću ti. PANONIAN (talk) 01:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello.

I am working on expanding articles about Yugoslavia in the Hebrew wiki.

Currently, the main source for information is the English wiki.

Do you think the articles about Yugoslavia in English wiki are reliable and balanced? Are there disputed parts of the articles that better not be translated? I rather not to say anything about a sensitive issue then writing incorrect claims. (I'll start with the article "Yugoslavia" and the articles about Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia).

Thanks.

cool

I like that you consider yourself Yugoslav on your talk page. Just saying that cool. I was going to ask if I could use your template with all the former yugoslav flags on my user site. Ja volim slovenija hrvatska bosnija srbija crna gora i makedonija isto! Ja se secam SFRJ takoze. To je bijo dobar drzeva... Zastavafan76 20:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC) reply

Now I understand. You are an older user. I apologize if I have ever insulted you. I, myself, am 20 years old, fairly young. Thank you for explaining, a lot of things make more sense. However, I do not understand why you support that every ethnicity has their own nationalistic symbol if you declare yourself to be a Yugoslav. I know that being a Yugoslav does not imply that you are "Yugoslavian" and "pro-SFRJ" but it does seem to be somewhat contrary. Pozdrav, Vseferović 06:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Oh my goodness, I never expected to get one of those :) thank you very much! It really motivates one to keep contributing. I'm glad you liked my burek comment, it seems the minds of many Balkan editors are plagued with misplaced anger and confusion... someone needs to set up a charity that delivers free burek to Wikipedia editors (and other bitter people) worldwide... maybe this would bring tranquility.. for a while anyway. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out on the noticeboard, said user has not ceased his disruptive contributions. Here is another example: diff. (:S)

But on a lighter note, thanks again! Stop The Lies 22:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies reply

Ooh, likewise! I love discussing the Balkan-question (as I like to call it), just as you do. I tend not to call myself "Yugoslav" but rather use hyphenated (ex: Serbo-Croat) terms (I just have a problem with entities that do not exist anymore [however great they were] because if someone called themselves "Soviet" I would feel the need to probe further).

You mentioned that "problem with most people from the Balkans is that it is very hard to find something to unite us", however, the problem is not FINDING something to unite us but RECOGNIZING the uniting traits that already exist! The most prominent one being LANGUAGE! I find the quest to distance and divide our various "dialects" and turn them into different languages absolutely absurd. Other uniting traits would be common history throughout various points in time (obviously there were many conflicts, but many do not realize the times we worked together!!!), common love for similar music, food, and entertainment, and even something as obvious as common geographical location! *Sigh... but it is, as you say "so easy to turn us against each other", because people let their passions get the best of them, while listening to fabricated lies and being manipulated by those with greater political agendas (or those who simply do not know any better.. such as certain wiki users who will remain unnamed heh)...

This is seriously enough to make me cry...

Socialist Yugo had its ups but it also had its downs (as any socialist country would), and I learned this through many conversations with my parents who both loved the country and disliked certain aspects to it. I completely agree with you when you say that stifling nationalism led to its outburst in the '90s. That was a very BIG mistake.... But one cannot ignore other factors that led to the dissolution of Yugo (I say that with such nostalgia even though I was still fairly young when war broke out hehe) which is a completely different topic.

However, I DO think the "C-C-C-C symbol" is a nationalistic symbol, yet NOT in a negative or aggressive manner (as some seem to imply)! It is simply a nationalistic symbol in the sense that a flag might be (therefore, not threatening, but meant to unite). [I have heard the song "CCCC" with Corba, Bajaga etc. and I think such use of the term might make one feel better and not feel so vulnerable, especially during the bombing of '99.] Once again, I agree with you when you say that nationalism is completely appropriate when used in a proper and unthreatening context, such as for unity, but definitely not for aggression towards another nation/ethnicity.

I also (having read your posts on your talk page) have a similar outlook on the situation in Kosovo. Yes, I do believe that under different circumstances, given the abundant history stored in the province, it should remain in Serbia. However, those circumstances are not present, and the benefits of independence outweigh the disadvantages. Currently, the only benefit from not separating seems to be that some Serbs will be pleased, that's IT! Their lives will not change for the better! However, the disadvantages are huge!

You put it VERY well when you said: "Kosovo stays in Serbia now, the Albanians will not be happy, and there will be further conflicts. Maybe a new war. This is not what the Balkans need right now. Besides, when Kosovo becomes independent, Serbia will be in the EU faster, because Kosovo is the biggest problem of Europe, as it is the poorest region. History is weighing down the people of the Balkans. What happened, happened, nothing can be changed. Why torture the 1.5 million Albanians that want independence? Because of something that happened in 1389?..." etc.

I must go now, but would love to talk on the subject further. Bye bye! :) Stop The Lies 05:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies reply

Helloo :) I'll try not to give mile-long replies heh. Anyway, you disagreed with me saying that the only benefit of not separating was some pleased Serbs, yet your post only reaffirmed this very idea! You said your friends "passionately defend the point of view that Kosovo was, is, and always should be a part (if not the heart) of Serbia", that "Serbs are the most history-conscious people in the world, and Kosovo is a part of their identity", and that they are really fighting for "the Kosovo that is in (their) minds". Does this not prove that these Serbs are really fighting to keep Kosovo for their own satisfaction, while disregarding the financial difficulties of maintaining Kosovo, the fact that many people are suffering there (due to ethnic tension that has a good chance of minimizing with independence), and other downsides. I, on the other hand, DO know Serbs who do not "passionately defend" Kosovo's staying in Serbia because it "should be there" and it is Serbia's "heart" etc., including family members and other acquaintances. They realize the benefits of separation and therefore endorse it, while still recognizing the unfairness of the circumstances.

You mentioned that "Serbs are going to go through a huge identity crisis when that happens". Yes, but only some. And that is a shame, because those people have decided to identify themselves with a region (regardless of history etc.), rather than focusing on what makes them THEM. This history will not disappear suddenly because of altered political boundaries. It will not be forgotten. In fact, it has a greater chance of being preserved due to lowered tensions. I pity those people who will go through an identity crisis if independence is achieved. They should really know better, put their egos on hold, realize the benefits, and be happy that the issue has finally been resolved... I'm not being cold hearted when I say this, I am simply looking out for the best interests of both parties.

I also wish that Serbs and Albanians could get a fresh start... give that overdue apology. It's amazing how many lives would improve with such a union.... But sadly, given the fact of life that there are simply more ignorant than reasonable people in the world, this seems unlikely. One must stay positive though, eh? And perhaps, get that charity going to start things off :) Stop The Lies 05:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)Stop_The_Lies reply

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Location Europe SER.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Iamunknown 04:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Hello! No Kosovo this time, hehe. Just movies. Basically, I've told a couple of our editors already, but feel free to add Yugo movies here: List of Yugoslavian films. Looking to add only notable films that are either hugely popular with the Balkan crowds or have achieved critical acclaim, won awards etc. No nationalistic crap, etc. If you can think of any movies to add, that would be great, if not, then you can help out with what we have already and expand movie/director/actor articles. Thanks a lot! :) Maîtresse 01:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Hehe, I removed the Hague trivia only to find that some pesky editor had edited the page while I was in the process :P Maîtresse 04:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Awesome work! Thanks so much :) I'm temporarily happy again hehe. I have not seen the movie yet (sadly) but I have sure heard of it plenntttyyy, meaning that it is very likely to be notable among the Yugo public, even if it has won no awards. You'll notice that Mi Nismo Andjeli (love that movie) won no awards (that I'm aware of), but nonetheless it is notable because it was:

• Praised by critics for its inventive direction, tight editing, urban humour, & plenty of pop culture references
• Achieved great commercial success, & later cult status
• One of most popular films of 1990s in the region of former Yugoslavia

So if anything similar applies to Balkan Express, feel free to add it :) Thanks again!!! Maîtresse 07:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Although you are right that I should have checked the talk page, you should not have called the edit "vandalism" in your edit summary. That is what triggered me to revert. It was not vandalism, the editor was at most misinformed (as I was). If you would have called it "reverting to consensus" or something like that, I would have checked the talk page before changing it back. Regards, -- Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 01:03, 19 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Thanks and all the best... Now that certainly was a misunderstanding that was quickly resolved, things should be more often like that here on Wikipedia :). -- Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 01:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Hello. I do like the template, a lot. Very good graphically and yes it expresses the view I hold strongly. However, if you don't like me using it, that's fine. I don't think it is a big deal to make something myself, linking to the same article. Just out of curiosity, why do you think that Montenegrin independence ideologically clashes with Brotherhood and Unity? I don't mean to get into big political arguments here, but, Brotherhood and Unity, as far as I remember, and I lived through a bit of that period as an adult, basically means supporting the idea of federal Yugoslavia, from Triglav to Djevdjelija. Independent Montenegro, on the other hand, was reconstituted primarily as a response agains Great Serbian idea and ideology, which also destroyed Yugoslavia as a country. If, by some miracle, Yugoslavia resurects, I am sure 99% of Montenegrins would gladly join.

Lastly, I never had the template "user supports Montenegrin Independence" on my page, although, yes I was overjoyed and still am very proud of independent Montenegro. You can easily check that by viewing the history of the page. You've must come to your conclusion by reading a comment from Pax (a.k.a Pixi :-) Perfect example of how quick to judge and at the same time slack we Yugoslavs are. Regards, Momisan 11:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC) reply

A true Yugoslav idea will make Greater Serbia, Greater Croatia and other nazis uncomfortable for a long, long time to come. That's why they are trying to compromise it, highjack it and misinterpret it. As far as Montenegrins go, if you cannot tell them apart, it probably shows that you don't know enough to tell them apart. Exactly the reason I join Wikipedia. I think I fell in love with the template, you might have created a monster :-) BTW, you do sound a bit like Pixi ;-) Regards, Momisan 00:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC) reply

You see, I agreed with everything you said, until the last statement that Serbia&Montenegro were the last hope for Yugoslavia. My strong belief is that Montenegro had to separate, exactly so that the idea that ultimately destroyed Yugoslavia, Greater Serbian one, can be burried. Only then, there is a hope we will one day reunite, if Serbia ever comes to their senses. We both want Yugoslavia and we both agree that its national solution was the best for us. The crucial problem with Montenegro and Montenegrins in its union with Serbia was that its identity, culture and language was denied, like you just did. And most of the people I know, do it because they really don't know enough about it. I guess to truly understand what I am talking about, you would have to walk in our shoes. Anyway, I think we agree on the important points, i.e. looking ahead. Regards, Momisan 01:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Hi Bože pravde. In answer to your query, I suppose the simplest way to explain such an apparent contradiction in my list of who I admire, is that I am a bit wierd:) which is true, but not the only reason. When I added him to that list I was under the impression that all he had done was defend his homeland and his people, and nothing more. However, after finding out about his crimes, my high opinion about him has dropped dramatically. But at the time I actually started to believe his crimes, I was involved in a dispute with some other editors (which you may have noticed from reading my talk page), and I thought if I removed him from my list, some peopel may think that I'm trying to "hide" or "cover up" something. The dispute has died down now, and I'll be removing him soon. Thank you for the having the courtesy to ask about it, instead of just jumping straight in and labeling me as some wild nationalist. Have a good day! — King Ivan 05:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC) reply

It's done. He is no longer there. — King Ivan 10:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Thanks for pointing out that I forgot about the side list! Man, I must be getting old :) — King Ivan 10:32, 28 February 2007 (UTC) reply

Maybe you are a God... who are we to say hehe Maîtresse 09:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Dala sam mu 'osmeh' da malo zacepi (neverujem da primecuje kolko ga zezam, al nije vazno hehe). Ps: If you've thought of any Yugo films, feel free to add them. Progress on the list has stagnated, it makes me sad :( Maîtresse 23:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Thanks (or Xвала, if you prefer) for your support in my recent RfA which passed unanimously - thus proving that you can indeed fool some of the people some of the time. I'm still coming to terms with the new functionality I have, but so far nothing bad has happened. As always, if there's anything you need to let me know, just drop me a line on my Talk page. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 10:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC) reply

I know the following is not a valid explanation, but I really did not think that something that sounded obviously ridiculous, and therefore like a joke, in Argentina, can be a painfull memory in Serbia. I'll come to you in the future for info on the Balkans-- Damifb 11:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Baš ti hvala! Ovde u Vankuveru se uveliko nezna o danu žena, so you gave me quite a pleasant surprise, thank you! Maîtresse 02:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Yeah, what I mean is, there were tensions between the people before Tito; then under his "rule", he kept them united as one - that's why I admire him. — King Ivan 05:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Your name is still listed at Wikipedia:Admin coaching/Requests.

Note that the instructions may have changed since the last time you checked, and the department now follows a self-help process. See the instructions on Wikipedia:Admin coaching.

If you are no longer in need of a coach, please remove yourself from the requests list.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist    03:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Dear Bože pravde, I was not referring to the discussion of the color, but to the discussion about whether to include Serbia at all in a map of Kosovo. This map, showing a part of Serbia was the compromise we reached. For more info, please see the arbitration case regarding the Kosovo articles. Regards, -- Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 23:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Thanks for understanding. The map of the article one of the reasons we ended up at arbitration in the first place, so that is why I feel it is important to stick with the compromise, to prevent future escalation of the difficulties surrounding this article. Best regards, -- Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 20:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC) reply

Hi Avdo. Why are you adding the Serbian name in that article? Constantine was half-Serbian from his mother's side but this is totally irrelevant to his linage and heritage. All members of medieval Royal families mixed with foreign ethnicities for political reasons, but this is not given undue weigh in modern encyclopaedias like Britannica. History shows that Serbian culture and government have never laid cultural claims on Constantine IX, therefore I can't help but assuming that your misinterpration is a personal POV which should not be reflected in wikipedia. In other words, ethnic background does not determine the cultural categorisation of royalties, never did and never will. After all, Helena Dragaš was most likely only half-Serbian in origin, she's only coined Serbian because her father was, which is what concerns us really. On the other hand, Stefan Dusan called himself "Emperor of the Serbs and the Greeks", but it would be clearly undue weigh to add his name in Greek, since he plays no role in Greek cultural heritage. I'm removing the Serbian name as an abudancy. Miskin 12:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC) reply

I just think that we should make edits based on personal opinions. This practice is generally avoid, unless cultural claims are involved. I don't see any objective reason to be honest, that is all. Miskin 23:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC) reply

I find your reasoning about ethnicities anachronistic, especially for a medieval royalty who was only 1/4 Serbian. However, I'll let you decide whatever you want, I'll just apply your logic on similar articles. I'll start by adding the Greek name in Stefan Dusan. Miskin 11:13, 17 April 2007 (UTC) reply

I reported Noah already for violation of 3RR rule on Račak incident. If you could see that article it would be good to judge. -- Medule 21:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC) reply

I've requested mediation for the Djokovic article here: Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Novak Đoković and listed you as an involved party. -- Yano 05:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC) reply

Thank you for the invitation :) -- Bolonium 21:09, 11 September 2007 (UTC) reply

I've opened a request for the Novak Ðoković dispute at this location. Orderinchaos 08:04, 16 September 2007 (UTC) reply

Sorry to spam again - but just to clarify, as I realise some haven't realised - if you want to have a say there, just create a section "Statement by..." and put your view in no more than 500 words. Anyone (not limited to the parties) can do such and some already have. Orderinchaos 07:48, 18 September 2007 (UTC) reply

As an admin I can read deleted pages, I took the liberty of restoring your comments verbatim from the RfM talk page into my userspace as there's nothing there which relates to the reasons for deletion of the parent page. When you're finished with it let me know so I can remove it. Good luck with the grandson :) Orderinchaos 23:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC) reply

Now deleted. And no worries - I think admins have a responsibility to make the process as easy as possible for as many as possible, as Wikipedia's not meant to be about bureaucracy. Orderinchaos 01:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC) reply

I know that all albanians (with little a) are terrorists. Since they burned 300 churches, supported terrorist, can't let Serbs live on their land (Serbian Kosovo), slaughtered and burned Serbian children allive (Serbian babies Sava from Prizren in 1999. and Marija from Gnjilane in 1998.), destroyed Serbian cemeteries etc. All albanians are terrorists, devil's nation that have no history, culture (look at their flag). -- Србија до Токија ( talk) 22:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Whatever extremists do is their guilt, not the guilt of an entire nation. Please stop attacking Albanians as a nation, it will NOT be tolerated on Wikipedia. -- GOD OF JUSTICE 23:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Ask any albanian here do they support terrorist so called "KLA". They are devil's nation everyone have right to think truth, if you have something against it check it out. Also you are strange. You are a Yugoslavia supporter (I am too, much bigger) but you support albanians that means you support separating and destoroying teritory of former Yugoslavia... I respect you and your opinions, I think you should respect my opinion too especialy because mine is proven with facts. -- Србија до Токија ( talk) 23:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC) reply

I can't respect someone's opinion that because some Albanians support the KLA, all Albanians are terrorists. This is absurd and I think you need some serious rethinking of your views that are currently based on racism and stereotype (but not the cute and funny kind). Albanians are normal people like you or me. Most of them are very loyal friends, honest and hard-working people. Some of them are nationalist extremists, yes, but aren't there people like that in every nation? Serbs? Croats? Muslims? Every nation has it's good and bad people. Also, I don't support "separating and destoroying teritory of former Yugoslavia", I am against Kosovo independence, which you can see from my efforts on the Kosovo article and Talk:Kosovo. Please don't call me strange or else I will report you for personal attacks. -- GOD OF JUSTICE 23:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC) reply

I am not afraid of your threats (it's not an insult I talked nice to you). If you don't know about 94% of Albanians (who were in a poll) support terrorist so called "KLA". Some of 6% of the rest were killed by KLA because they cooperated with Serbs. And albanians can't be "normal people" since they are not humans at all and absolutely not normal (what kind of human being could kill a innocent baby and burn it allive, or burn 300 churches for nothing)? Ok I understand that but why do you protect them? Anyway why don't we speak Serbian? In my life I never met an albanian (animal names are written with first letter little :) ) that didn't say I hope you 'll die at least 7 times when we met (I was talking nice to them untill they didn't insult without reason). I am very angry because of this and it's one more reason why I hate them. To me I don't consider a human anyone who supports Serbian Kosovo independence (it's like someone supports slaughtering milion of innocent children). Thank you very much for your support and if you were little more on the side of the truth I would award you, but sorry I can't do it right now. Good luck! Све најбоље! -- Србија до Токија ( talk) 23:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC) reply

My God, 94% voted in support and 6% were killed. I wonder.. since when can dead people vote in polls. And which poll could this be? I see no reference or link. I think the problem IS that you've never met an Albanian, I have good Albanian friends and one day you'll learn that life doesn't revolve around politics, young man. Don't believe everything the media tells you, don't believe the lies. Think about it, CNN used to demonize Serbs in the 1990s and how did that make YOU feel? They called Serbs genocidal maniacs, bringing in "guest speakers" who were paid by various lobby groups. I never believed them, I'm sure you didn't either. Why would you believe the lies about Albanians? Polls and politicians can say whatever they want, go out and meet an Albanian, talk to him, don't be narrow minded. If he's not a good man, meet someone else. If you don't like them, fine, that's your problem, but don't come here and spread your hate to us, the people that just want to make a fair and balanced Wikipedia. Why don't we speak Serbian? This is English Wikipedia, I already speak Serbian every day and this is a useful tool for me to keep talking English since I have no English friends in Belgrade. Anyways, your comparisons are really touching, but you can't fool me with the "it's like someone supports slaughtering milion of innocent children", even the United States don't use such absurd methods. Please never reward me, I don't want rewards from someone who hates a nation and calls them "animals". Do not contact me anymore. -- GOD OF JUSTICE 06:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Hello Bože pravde and thank you for contacting me. Well, I guess I'm very interested in international politics, borders, peoples, cultures, disputes, and anything of this kind. Yugoslavia is one of my favorite subjects, as it was such a micro cosmos of languages, religions, cultures, etc. Its breakup was violent, sad and often unfair, but at the same time it was incredibly interesting. Furthermore, I am very interested in the history of Europe, and how its borders and peoples changed through time. Naturally, Kosovo fits in my interests. I strongly support Kosovo's independence for many, many reasons. The first one is my belief that people have the right to self determination. I'm against the concept of an immutable nation that is to occupy a portion of land forever even if people within its borders are not happy with it. I believe that when the people of a particular part of a country no longer wish to be a part of it, then it's their right to go free. The important thing is to accept the breakup and foster good relations afterwards. Forcing people to live together has never proved a good policy. If you check my userboxes you'll see that I support the independence of many regions, not just Kosovo. The second reason is my belief that the Albanians deserve to be independent. They were badly mistreated by Milošević and by Serbians who supported his policies. It's understandable that they no longer wish to be a part of a country that caused so much damage to them, even if the rulers have changed. Despite being offered great autonomy by the current Serbian government, it's also understandable that Albanians don't see that as enough. They don't want to be represented to the world as citizens of Serbia and belonging to a Serbian nation run by Serbians. They just want to run themselves. Finally, I don't think that Serbia has provided any good arguments for keeping Kosovo. And some stances by Serbia and the Serbians just ensured me that the Kosovar Albanians are right in demanding their own state. Stances such as resorting to Russia in order to retain Kosovo for a few more months is catastrophic for Serbia's image and its European prospects. Some polls I have seen and press I have read seem to show that a majority of Serbs will put their nationalistic grip on Kosovo above their European aspirations. Also not good. These are my views. By the way, I think that Kosovo's partition would've been the best solution for this. Serbia could still have Northern Kosovo, but would have to give those municipalities in the Preševo Valley in exchange (and I don't think Serbia would ever agree with this even though it could be the least troublesome solution for both sides). I hope this clarifies my personal position. By the way, why do you think Kosovo should remain in Serbia and how feasible do you think that could be? Best regards, Hús ö nd 04:21, 13 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your long and detailed analysis. I can't decide what part should I start my comments from, so I'll just re-read everything and comment as I read.

• I understand that the ethnic cleansing of Serbians from Kosovo half a century ago was most unfortunate and unfair. However, I also understand that everything that was happening in Europe in those days was at least just as unfortunate and unfair. Millions were killed, lost their loved ones, saw their lives crumble apart. Borders were redrawn, and land changed hands many times before, during, and after World War II. Kosovo was just an example among many. Consider East Prussia, for example. By setting out to unify the Germans, Prussia gave birth to the German Empire. Like Kosovo has great historical value for Serbia, so did East Prussia have for the Germans. And yet, after the war East Prussia was divided between Poland and the Russian SFSR (the entire German population fled westwards as the Red Army approached). Nowadays, nobody in Germany seems to cry the loss of East Prussia despite all its meaning for the German history. The great (hmm, only?) benefit of World War II for Europe was the apparently well learnt lesson that its peoples have to come to terms with their differences, foster good relations, respect each other, and have shame for the once widespread belief that some were superior than others. I think that Serbians should put aside the history of Kosovo and its meaning to Serbia, and realize the reality of a lost case: a province where the overwhelming majority of the population wants to leave Serbia. Letting Kosovo go would be a win-win situation: Albanians would get what they want, and Serbia would have something less to worry about and could focus on the thing that countries should focus most: take good care of its people and make them happy.
• I am well aware of what Serbia offered Kosovo during the last negotiations. Kosovo was offered an unprecedented level of autonomy, which despite being a sign of good will by the Serbian government, I can't say that outside observers like me were positively impressed by that good will. Because when Serbia offers Kosovo basically all the powers of an independent state, then one may think, "well, if they're giving out that much, then the only reason they want Kosovo is to satisfy their pride". And pride is precisely what many Europeans view as the worst thing to fight for. No wonder that after the extended negotiations the EU seems to have greater agreement on accepting the independence of Kosovo. I'm afraid that in the end Serbia's message might be, "I don't share your European values, I'll stubbornly fight for a piece of my territory regardless of what its people desire". Serbia also clearly upset Europeans by lengthening talks that everybody knew would result in no agreement, and proposing even more talks after the ones that just ended this week. I'd feel mocked if I were an Eurocrat. Wasting everyone's time is definitely not a good strategy.
• The situation of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia is slightly different. I'm afraid they lost any compassion for them after their support for Milošević's plans for retaining a Great Serbia united after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, in detriment to the Croats and Muslims that were often in the way. In fact, although nowadays I think that Serbs, too, suffered and were treated unfairly, I must admit that I felt little compassion for the Serbs at the time they were forced to flee the area of the Republic of Serbian Krajina. And I recall hoping that Bosnian Serbs pack their bags and move to Serbia at the time of the Dayton Agreements. Not just because I thought that Serbs were to blame for the whole conflict, but also because I thought that Bosnia would never work as a country as long as the Serbs were there. Nowadays I view things differently of course, and I support Serbs moving back to Croatia. But I don't think I can support an independent Republika Srpska for the moment. Although I don't like the fragile balance of Bosnia-Herzegovina, I still think that all 3 peoples are essential for its very existence. An independent Srpska would start a new conflict as it's still not ethnically homogeneous, and there's also Serbs in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina who'd want to join Srpska, then Croats would want to separate from Bosniaks which would a be very troublesome task as they're all mixed around and so on. Furthermore, I still hope that in the future Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks forgive each other and live as good neighbors just like in old Yugoslavia. Something I don't think would happen between Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo, whose languages aren't even mutually intelligible and where one ethnicity is far more predominant. By the way, in Republika Srpska, Serbs aren't proving to be a very tolerable people. I saw what they did to prevent the reconstruction of the mosque in Banja Luka. Nobody is ever going to support them if this conduct remains. I wish Serbs would give the impression they're a nice people every now and then. A few months ago I've met some incredibly friendly Serbs in Lisbon. I was flabbergasted that such nice people could come from a country whose citizens as a whole seem to be growing fame for intolerance and unfriendliness.
• Indeed, I have heard that people were happy in old Yugoslavia, or at least were happier than they are today. Even my teacher from the small, prosperous Slovenia that rebounded nicely from the breakup of Yugoslavia like no other republic has, says that life was great in those days and although she likes Slovenia as an independent nation, she also misses Yugoslavia.
• I am glad to learn that despite some warmongering from the Serbian government and even Russia, people there aren't looking forward to a war in response to the proclamation of independence by Kosovo. Serbia had enough war already, I thought that a new one would be most undesirable.
• I am not sure if Serbia will make its way to the European Union without recognizing Kosovo. Because many European countries will recognize it and will likely veto Serbia's admission unless Serbia gives up. If Albania gets in the EU first, it will veto for sure. Kosovo on the other hand only has to fear vetos from countries that will not recognize it. And I think that in the end only Cyprus will not. Which in turn will cause Kosovo to recognize the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, but this is just far-fetching.

Well, I guess these are my comments for now. Sorry for the length but I too enjoy talking about it. :-) Best regards, Hús ö nd 02:32, 15 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Oh, don't worry, take your time. :-) Regards, Hús ö nd 05:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC) reply

Hi I would like to ask you kindly not to place map Image:RS within Bosnia and Herzegovina.PNG in article about Republika Srpska which you have done couple of times. The map represents only territory of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina as Bosnia and Herzegovina while Republika Srpska is represented as not being part of BiH. This is very deceptive and incorrect. Thanks -- Dado ( talk) 18:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC) reply