The following are some articles from the Novels list that we might consider editing. All are Start-quality, though some are rated Mid-importance and others High, depending on the project we look at. Feel free to check these out and comment if you like any of them. You can also leave some of your findings here too, and we can narrow down on this Talk page before moving to my sandbox. Let me know what you think!
Also, feel free to stray from novels/ short stories, of course! -- Zfischer97 ( talk) 16:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey! I really like the options of Thirteen Reasons Why and A Good Man Is Hard to Find (short story)! I was looking through a couple of articles as well, and if you want, I think we could also consider the following:
So far I think my favorite idea may be your A Good Man Is Hard to Fin (short story) one because we've both studied it last year. My only concern for this article would be if we would be able to find enough sources and material to really develop the article more. What do you think? Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 01:10, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
I like your suggestions, as well, particularly Coraline. I looked at that one too, and it definitely has too much plot summary and could use some more references. I think it's worthy of our top three for sure, and we could probably contribute to our word requirement by working on the plot. I'd also like to advocate a little for Thirteen Reasons Why; I think there's a lot of material needed in the article that we could add, especially in Characters and Reception sections. Thinking about our word count, reference, and copy edit requirements, I think this article has a lot of opportunities for that. Moving forward, I think I'll go ahead and put our top choices in my Sandbox and try to explain our rationale. Please feel free to enhance/ add to, delete, or otherwise alter what I put in there. We do have to narrow down to our top two choices. Is it cool if I make a section for this and you add our choices? I recommend A Good Man is Hard to Find, Thirteen Reasons Why, or Coraline for the top two. Honestly, though, I'd be fine with anything we've discussed as making it, and I trust your judgment. :) -- Zfischer97 ( talk) 02:02, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! I went ahead and added our final choice to the Sandbox in a subheading format. I also put up there a tentative plan of action, but please feel free to alter, add to, delete, etc. that if you desire. I have not yet posted it in the Talk page on the Thirteen Reasons article, since I wanted your feedback/ contribution first. I have also found a few sources from a quick Summon search that might be useful to us, but also might not be. I'll add them below so you can look at them before we share them to the Thirteen Reasons Talk page. Let me know what you think! (P.S. I know these all say Proquest, but that's just what the citation looked like when I pulled it. Might have to fix those before moving them to the Thirteen Reasons Talk page)
**The above seems like it might be about the show**
Hey! Here are some more sources that might work as well, especially with the controversy topic.
In regard to the other points for the plan of action, I think it would be alright to add the basic biographical information on each character as well as which tape they each appear on. For the reception section, I believe we can look into the archives of many major newspapers if they are free (in American ones at least). The book was published about ten years ago, we it should still be fairly easy to find and use. What do you think? I'd be interested especially in reading what prints like the New York Times and Chicago Tribune had to say- about both the book and the Netflix adaptation.
Hey there! I figured I would start a new section just about our edits to Thirteen Reasons; the other section was getting a bit long. I have annotated a couple of my sources and I'll move those to the Sandbox here shortly. I'm going to clean up my citations there, as well. I also found some cool and quick newspaper references that we could use, so I will add those to our citation list, as well. Happy editing/ good luck! Zfischer97 ( talk) 00:18, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I've started on our Characters section which, as a reminder, will be a completely new section to the article. Looking at the current Plot section of the article though, it is really only based on characters. I'm probably going to just shuffle a lot of that information to the Characters section we're creating, but it does leave a basically-empty Plot section if I do. This means I'll probably end up doing at least a basic re-write of the Plot section, unless you have any suggestions? Look over the Plot section of the Thirteen Reasons Why article if you get the chance and let me know what you think! Zfischer97 ( talk) 17:49, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
I think I have all the characters in working order, though some might need edits for tone and brevity. I'll leave that to the next draft though! Zfischer97 ( talk) 23:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
I added to this section (more than I thought I would). It's reading really positive about the novel right now, which is fine since it all came from our sources. But, we should probably focus in the near future about representing the other side of things, possibly even bringing in the show as a comparison-- like, the book was taken this way, but the show seems to be taken this way, etc. Does that make sense? Always feel free to edit what I've done! Zfischer97 ( talk) 23:21, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
I've copied the Plot section of the current article into my Sandbox so we can copyedit easier/ use any helpful info in building up the characters list. I know a challenge of the section, and probably the reason the section currently looks the way it does, is that the book unfolds through these tapes in much the current format of the Plot section. Still, I think we can make it a bit more concise. But, if you have any suggestions on another way to approach the plot section, let me know or edit away! Zfischer97 ( talk) 05:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Would it make sense to have a brief introductory paragraph under the Character heading? Here you might describe what scholars/critics have found notable about Asher's characters. Aschuet1 ( talk) 16:34, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
1. Nice job keeping a neutral tone, organized material, and concise language. Your draft was easy to understand, but still generally conveyed your intended meaning. I also really liked the format of your additions and how your organized them.
2. I noticed two specific phrases which were confusing for me. The first is in your reception section; you write "This book has appeared on several "Banned Books" lists but this has also been counteracted by the actions of some high schools." I am not sure I understand this sentence; what is being counteracted by the actions of some high schools? How are they counteracting it? The second phrase is in your plot section, which says "When Bryce starts to touch Hannah, Courtney leaves the hot tub and Hannah doesn't actively resist his attentions, leading to him raping her." I have not read this book, but for a uninformed reader it appears to imply that her lack of resistance was what caused him to rape her. That could possibly be construed as an opinion as not everyone would agree that her lack of resistance automatically leads to her rape; it could also possibly be taken as victim blaming.
3. I would add more to your Reception section. Right now, you only give good reviews and the books benefits on its readers, giving a specific example of how educators want to incorporate the novel into the curriculum. However you mention above that it is very controversial, why is this book so controversial? Could you add some negative reactions to this book,and their reasons behind disliking it?
4. Your language is defiantly less complex than my article, which is a problem for me, making it more Wikipedia appropriate. The neutral and simple tone of your article is one I am aiming for in my work. KBMathews ( talk) 18:26, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- I liked the characters section; it provides good context for unfamiliar readers. I also really liked the reception section, as the sources were well synthesized. - I would recommend double checking some of the tense agreements in the plot section, as I think there was an instance of past mixed with present tense in at least one sentence. - If you think it would help, maybe use the sources you already have in the reception section and expound upon what they say a little more to give readers additional context. Even adding a few more sentences for a few of the sources could be useful. -Note: I like that your article sections were accessible to readers who haven't read the novel; it was clear, detailed, and easy to follow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AshMillette ( talk • contribs) 18:16, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! I made some seemingly-random edits in the Reception section and a little in the Plot section. I think from here, we'll need more edits in the Plot section and maybe a skim of Reception and Characters for grammar. But, otherwise, we're looking good! Zfischer97 ( talk) 04:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello! I read through the sections again as well, sorry I forgot to post here! For the plot section, I reread through it again before I moved it over as well. I think all of the pieces have been moved now! Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 03:18, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Just thought we could share our recommendations for further improving the article here before moving them to the Thirteen Reasons talk page. If you want to comment your thoughts, we could combine them and then add them to the talk page. First, I think it would be good for future editors to revisit the lead section. I think it could be updated to better reflect the coming sections of the article; while it is concise, it seems to lack some details in its summary of the article. I think the article could also benefit from a Themes section, especially considering the novel deals so closely with bullying and suicide, and this would likely build up the reference section of the page, as well. I think the "Differences from the TV series" section has potential to grow, as well. The last sentence in that section is an unsupported claim, but I think with more research, more could be added there, too. Similarly, the Recent Developments section is ongoing and can probably updated. Let me know what you think! Zfischer97 ( talk) 18:04, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
To make my rambling more concise, future edits should...
-- Zfischer97 ( talk) 02:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC) Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 13:35, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
The following are some articles from the Novels list that we might consider editing. All are Start-quality, though some are rated Mid-importance and others High, depending on the project we look at. Feel free to check these out and comment if you like any of them. You can also leave some of your findings here too, and we can narrow down on this Talk page before moving to my sandbox. Let me know what you think!
Also, feel free to stray from novels/ short stories, of course! -- Zfischer97 ( talk) 16:35, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey! I really like the options of Thirteen Reasons Why and A Good Man Is Hard to Find (short story)! I was looking through a couple of articles as well, and if you want, I think we could also consider the following:
So far I think my favorite idea may be your A Good Man Is Hard to Fin (short story) one because we've both studied it last year. My only concern for this article would be if we would be able to find enough sources and material to really develop the article more. What do you think? Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 01:10, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
I like your suggestions, as well, particularly Coraline. I looked at that one too, and it definitely has too much plot summary and could use some more references. I think it's worthy of our top three for sure, and we could probably contribute to our word requirement by working on the plot. I'd also like to advocate a little for Thirteen Reasons Why; I think there's a lot of material needed in the article that we could add, especially in Characters and Reception sections. Thinking about our word count, reference, and copy edit requirements, I think this article has a lot of opportunities for that. Moving forward, I think I'll go ahead and put our top choices in my Sandbox and try to explain our rationale. Please feel free to enhance/ add to, delete, or otherwise alter what I put in there. We do have to narrow down to our top two choices. Is it cool if I make a section for this and you add our choices? I recommend A Good Man is Hard to Find, Thirteen Reasons Why, or Coraline for the top two. Honestly, though, I'd be fine with anything we've discussed as making it, and I trust your judgment. :) -- Zfischer97 ( talk) 02:02, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! I went ahead and added our final choice to the Sandbox in a subheading format. I also put up there a tentative plan of action, but please feel free to alter, add to, delete, etc. that if you desire. I have not yet posted it in the Talk page on the Thirteen Reasons article, since I wanted your feedback/ contribution first. I have also found a few sources from a quick Summon search that might be useful to us, but also might not be. I'll add them below so you can look at them before we share them to the Thirteen Reasons Talk page. Let me know what you think! (P.S. I know these all say Proquest, but that's just what the citation looked like when I pulled it. Might have to fix those before moving them to the Thirteen Reasons Talk page)
**The above seems like it might be about the show**
Hey! Here are some more sources that might work as well, especially with the controversy topic.
In regard to the other points for the plan of action, I think it would be alright to add the basic biographical information on each character as well as which tape they each appear on. For the reception section, I believe we can look into the archives of many major newspapers if they are free (in American ones at least). The book was published about ten years ago, we it should still be fairly easy to find and use. What do you think? I'd be interested especially in reading what prints like the New York Times and Chicago Tribune had to say- about both the book and the Netflix adaptation.
Hey there! I figured I would start a new section just about our edits to Thirteen Reasons; the other section was getting a bit long. I have annotated a couple of my sources and I'll move those to the Sandbox here shortly. I'm going to clean up my citations there, as well. I also found some cool and quick newspaper references that we could use, so I will add those to our citation list, as well. Happy editing/ good luck! Zfischer97 ( talk) 00:18, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
I've started on our Characters section which, as a reminder, will be a completely new section to the article. Looking at the current Plot section of the article though, it is really only based on characters. I'm probably going to just shuffle a lot of that information to the Characters section we're creating, but it does leave a basically-empty Plot section if I do. This means I'll probably end up doing at least a basic re-write of the Plot section, unless you have any suggestions? Look over the Plot section of the Thirteen Reasons Why article if you get the chance and let me know what you think! Zfischer97 ( talk) 17:49, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
I think I have all the characters in working order, though some might need edits for tone and brevity. I'll leave that to the next draft though! Zfischer97 ( talk) 23:19, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
I added to this section (more than I thought I would). It's reading really positive about the novel right now, which is fine since it all came from our sources. But, we should probably focus in the near future about representing the other side of things, possibly even bringing in the show as a comparison-- like, the book was taken this way, but the show seems to be taken this way, etc. Does that make sense? Always feel free to edit what I've done! Zfischer97 ( talk) 23:21, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
I've copied the Plot section of the current article into my Sandbox so we can copyedit easier/ use any helpful info in building up the characters list. I know a challenge of the section, and probably the reason the section currently looks the way it does, is that the book unfolds through these tapes in much the current format of the Plot section. Still, I think we can make it a bit more concise. But, if you have any suggestions on another way to approach the plot section, let me know or edit away! Zfischer97 ( talk) 05:00, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Would it make sense to have a brief introductory paragraph under the Character heading? Here you might describe what scholars/critics have found notable about Asher's characters. Aschuet1 ( talk) 16:34, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
1. Nice job keeping a neutral tone, organized material, and concise language. Your draft was easy to understand, but still generally conveyed your intended meaning. I also really liked the format of your additions and how your organized them.
2. I noticed two specific phrases which were confusing for me. The first is in your reception section; you write "This book has appeared on several "Banned Books" lists but this has also been counteracted by the actions of some high schools." I am not sure I understand this sentence; what is being counteracted by the actions of some high schools? How are they counteracting it? The second phrase is in your plot section, which says "When Bryce starts to touch Hannah, Courtney leaves the hot tub and Hannah doesn't actively resist his attentions, leading to him raping her." I have not read this book, but for a uninformed reader it appears to imply that her lack of resistance was what caused him to rape her. That could possibly be construed as an opinion as not everyone would agree that her lack of resistance automatically leads to her rape; it could also possibly be taken as victim blaming.
3. I would add more to your Reception section. Right now, you only give good reviews and the books benefits on its readers, giving a specific example of how educators want to incorporate the novel into the curriculum. However you mention above that it is very controversial, why is this book so controversial? Could you add some negative reactions to this book,and their reasons behind disliking it?
4. Your language is defiantly less complex than my article, which is a problem for me, making it more Wikipedia appropriate. The neutral and simple tone of your article is one I am aiming for in my work. KBMathews ( talk) 18:26, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
- I liked the characters section; it provides good context for unfamiliar readers. I also really liked the reception section, as the sources were well synthesized. - I would recommend double checking some of the tense agreements in the plot section, as I think there was an instance of past mixed with present tense in at least one sentence. - If you think it would help, maybe use the sources you already have in the reception section and expound upon what they say a little more to give readers additional context. Even adding a few more sentences for a few of the sources could be useful. -Note: I like that your article sections were accessible to readers who haven't read the novel; it was clear, detailed, and easy to follow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AshMillette ( talk • contribs) 18:16, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Hey there! I made some seemingly-random edits in the Reception section and a little in the Plot section. I think from here, we'll need more edits in the Plot section and maybe a skim of Reception and Characters for grammar. But, otherwise, we're looking good! Zfischer97 ( talk) 04:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello! I read through the sections again as well, sorry I forgot to post here! For the plot section, I reread through it again before I moved it over as well. I think all of the pieces have been moved now! Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 03:18, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Just thought we could share our recommendations for further improving the article here before moving them to the Thirteen Reasons talk page. If you want to comment your thoughts, we could combine them and then add them to the talk page. First, I think it would be good for future editors to revisit the lead section. I think it could be updated to better reflect the coming sections of the article; while it is concise, it seems to lack some details in its summary of the article. I think the article could also benefit from a Themes section, especially considering the novel deals so closely with bullying and suicide, and this would likely build up the reference section of the page, as well. I think the "Differences from the TV series" section has potential to grow, as well. The last sentence in that section is an unsupported claim, but I think with more research, more could be added there, too. Similarly, the Recent Developments section is ongoing and can probably updated. Let me know what you think! Zfischer97 ( talk) 18:04, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
To make my rambling more concise, future edits should...
-- Zfischer97 ( talk) 02:30, 7 May 2018 (UTC) Sarahlaw1 ( talk) 13:35, 7 May 2018 (UTC)