This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Abdur Rab Nishtar page was created on 19:55, 29 December 2005 while the Sardar Abdur Rab Nishtar page was created on 10:04, 23 February 2006. We should keep the older page and rename the newer page for another leader of Pakistani movement that does not have a page at this time. I look forward to your comments on this issue.

Siddiqui 21:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC) reply

sounds like a good idea siddiqui, I was thinking of setting up a redirect though as his full title would be Sardar Abdul Rab Nishtar? If you are ok with that we can transfer the more detailed information from Sardar Abdur Rab to the older file? Zak 21:48, 3 March 2006 (UTC) reply

ok changes made, you may want to check Abdur Rab Nishtar again

I added the demographic information about Pashtuns in Pashtunistan page due to one user requesting citation. You have also contributed in that page. May be you can also comment on this issue.

Siddiqui 21:52, 3 March 2006 (UTC) reply

I have taken a look, actual data is very hard to verify, figures on Pashtun %age in Afghanistan vary sharply as there has been no new census and the large scale populationshifts in and out of the country by different groups. See Pashtun to get an idea of how confusing the situation is..I think it is probably better to leave a range within one or 2 links and mention the controversial nature of the statistics. Pashtuns in Pakistan is easier to verify check on the pakistan gov web site. Zak 22:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC) reply

... my Pashtun friend. I am a Tajik from Afghanistan :) I just had a look at your article Pashtunistan. Very interesting. However, the Pashtunistan map is wrong, because it also contains Baluchistan, and area that was not affected by the Durand-Line and has never been part of a "devided Pashtun nation".

Maybe you should change the map. Here is a historical map showing the border between Afghanistan and British-India before the infamous Durand-Line. As you can see, Baluchistan was neither part of Afghanistan nor of British India:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Centralasia_%28colormap%29.jpg

Thnaks

80.171.21.24 01:47, 4 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks for dropping by, i wish I could say it's only my article! You are quite right but as I have mentioned on the talk page of the article. I am removing the Pashtunistan picture shown on the top right of the article and I am planning on clarifying the theories of what is pakhtunistan/pakhtunkhwa as there are several variations of the theory. The map shown isn't an effective example of that..as it includes the Baluch areas of Pakistan and Chitral which do not speak pashto. Zak 15:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC) reply

I have added the "disputed" and "clean-up" tags to the article in hope to improve its quality. It contains some factual mistakes and many spelling mistakes, etc. We should work together to clean it up. However, right now, I am kind of busy with the article Safavids which under constant attack by Turkish nationalists. Tajik 03:13, 11 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks Tajik what are your specific complaints? I have a problem as far as time constraints and a large number of projects I have taken up at the same time on Wiki so the help would be appreciated. Zak 19:56, 11 March 2006 (UTC) reply

I have created these two pages for current Governors and Chief Ministers of provinces of Pakistan. You can improve it and also please include a note in their discussion pages.

Siddiqui 14:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Can you please also change the link in List of the province to point to governors of provinces. I have added all and planned to create a list. Now those pages can be pointed from this page also.

Siddiqui 14:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello my friend. I invite you to take part in this project:

Wikipedia:Iranian Wikipedians' notice board

It is a notice board that keeps an eye on all articles related to Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, "Pashtunistan", and other Iranian peoples, such as Baluchs, Kurds, etc.

Tajik 13:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC) reply

thank you i'll have a look-- Zak 13:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Zak: Thanks for adding this information. I'd like to make it more in keeping with the rest of the article.

I don't know that this revolt had the long term impact on India that the Sikhs' or the Marathis' did. There were many revolts in Aurangzeb's reign and most were settled messily through bribes, etc. Another distinction is that the revolts of the Marathis and Sikhs succeeded in holding territory captured from Aurangzeb, and then governing that territory in defiance of the Emperor.

So, overall, I think this section could use a little less prominence, because its long-term -- which is the subject of the article.

Also, I think Khushal's relation to the Pashtun's needs earlier mention.

Next, I doubt that Khushal was imprisoned for 2 years for resentment over tolls. More likely some specific charge was in place?

You make no mention of the period of the revolt. When did it start?

This article, however, says that Aurangzeb spent about two years..encamped at Attak. I can't find any other source for this information. Can you cite any other source that can verify it?

Thanks. -- Nemonoman 21:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Nemonoman Hello again, I am a bit new at this so I am not sure whether I am supposed to answer here or on your discussion board or the aurengzeb discussion? Anyway I'll try and answer your comments point by point 1) historical importance to aurenzeb: There are plenty of indications that the revolt weakened Mughal rule. Controlling the pashtun belt stretching from attock city to kabul and south till kandahar has been a strategic and economic neccessity for every empire ( as almost every empire that staked a claim on the region has learnt). Olaf Caroes book is the main source I have on hand right now, essentially the chaos in that region lasted well after Aurengzebs death and much in the same way that it allowed Humayun to reclaim the throne it opened the door for Nadir Shah Zafars eventual sack of Delhi. In addition the losses suffered by the Mughal Army in it's first confrontation with the Pashtun tribesmen, led by the Governor (1672 cited from Olaf Caroe: The Pathans p 234) were put at (probably exaggerated as was the custom of the day) a staggering 40,000 including the entire retinue of the Governor of Kabul Amin Khan ..of the Mughal Army only four escaped. (2)Khushals relation to the pashtuns: Thats true it was quick edit I had to find my book! (3) Next, I doubt that Khushal was imprisoned for 2 years for resentment over tolls. More likely some specific charge was in place?The exact cause is conjecture, but it's believed that the Mughal governor at the time was attempting to make a token gesture to the other pashtun tribe they were facing problems with, bitter rivals of the Khattaks, the yousafzais (who had been a cause of trouble since the time of Akbar ---> read the story of Birbal) and abolished the toll as a means of appeasing them, the throwing of a bone to a tribal rival that too without any compensation would have probably impoverished his tribe. The actual incident that sparked the tribes to revolt was when a group of Mughal soldiers attempted to molest some women from the Safi tribe. P.s: the actual time he spent away from home was about four years as he was kept under house arrest for an additonal two years far away from home. (4)You make no mention of the period of the revolt. When did it start? 1672 (again Caroe is the source) (5)I can't find any other source for this information. Can you cite any other source that can verify it?Yup Caroe p235, I am not sure of the exact length of time he spent there but he did arrive in person in 1674 after repeated military disasters had forced his hand and the Mughals were no longer able to exercise power over much of the Attock to Kabul trade route. Hope the answers helped, I'll be adding some of what I've written to the Khushhal Khan article and aurengzeb. If you have any other questions or need more references do tell! Thanks -- Zak 23:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi,

We started a proposal Wikipedia:Wikiethics to state the existing policies coherently and make suggestions on improving the editorial standards in Wiki. I thought you might be interested in contributing to that proposal.

Unfortunately, a pro-porn and pro-offense lobby is trying to make this proposal a failure. They unilaterally started an approval poll although almost no one including me believe that it is time for a vote, simply because the policy is not ready. It is not even written completely.

Editors who thinks that the policy needs to be improved rather than killed by an unfair poll at the beginning of the proposal, started another poll ('Do we really need a poll at this stage?') at the same time. The poll is vandalized for a while but it is stable now. A NO vote on this ('Do we really need a poll now?') poll will strengthen the position of the editors who are willing to improve the ethics policy further.

If you have concerns about the ethics and editorial standards in Wiki, please visit the page Wikipedia:Wikiethics with your suggestions on the policy. We have two subpages: Arguments and Sections. You might want to consider reviewing these pages as well...

Thanks in advance. Resid Gulerdem 22:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC) reply

I would like to offer my thanks for your positive kind changes on my introduction page. Haider 20:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC) reply

you are welcome feel free to spread the word about the box to other pashtuns who may frequent the site. -- Zak 23:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zakksez,

I was wondering if you would join in on the discussion here. There is an argument right now over whether the Pashtuns are of Iranian stock or not. Thanks. -- Khoikhoi 23:17, 1 April 2006 (UTC) reply

sure KK will have a look thanks -- Zak 00:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks for your comments Zak. Unfortunately this Tanoli user is hell bent on vandalising his and the Janjua page with his 'view' over recorded historic fact. But I am glad I can be of some help in this respect bro.-- Raja 12:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC) reply

sorry to hear that Raja..i am sure you can ahve some action taken through wiki..do a bit of poking around I am sure you will find a way. -- Zak 01:13, 15 April 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi

Thanks for creating this page Adam Khan And Durkhanai. It was listed on the Cleanup page and was found to have been copied from the website http://www.freewebs.com/aryano/loveromance.htm . If this is your personal website, then please say so on the article talk page or using the link on WP:CP and your article will be reinstated. If not, unfortunately this article cannot be accepted in its present state. Thanks Berry 20:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Zakksek,

Thanks for the reply. I understand where you're coming from. It looks like the site owner has got it out of the book cited at the top of the page? Unfortunately if it is then that would be copyrighted. What I would do is rewrite the introduction section in your own words, and then instead of putting in the full story write your own short synopsis of it with the references at the bottom to that webpage or to the book. You can use the same information source but you just have to rewrite it to make it your own material. Hope this helps. Berry 13:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi. I think you intended to list these two articles for deletion, but it doesn't seem to have worked properly. I think you may have missed stage III of the process at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#How_to_list_pages_for_deletion. -- BillC 00:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC) reply

You also missed step 2 for Nuristan (Pakistan). Please copy the template message from the instructions and edit it appropriately. I fixed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abasin for you. I'd suggest add more details to your nomination reason as it's not very clear. -- JLaTondre 02:49, 7 May 2006 (UTC) reply

After looking at it some more, I think you meant for these to be combined. I've taken care of that. Feel free to correct if I got it wrong. -- JLaTondre 02:54, 7 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Duplicated from my talk page: You don't need AfD to do a merge. You can edit the article to be kept to add any unique information and then redirect to the duplicate to it. You might wish to tag them for merger and discuss it on the articles' talk page first if you think there might be controversy. See Wikipedia:Merging_and_moving_pages for more information. If you have questions let me know. -- JLaTondre 03:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks for uploading Image:4 close.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sherool (talk) 23:06, 17 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Fairly cose, just a couple of things: The {{ fairuse}} template is depreciated so I replaced it with {{ Non-free fair use in}}, also to use a template use for example {{fairuse}} not {{tl|fairuse}}. {{ tl}} is in fact simply a template to create a link to a template. Ok technical stuff aside you need to add one more thing to the image, a fair use rationale, that's not too hard though. Just look at the examples on the linked page and write something simmilar that fit the use of this image in the relevant article. Thanks. -- Sherool (talk) 21:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC) reply

I would really appreciate you for your such an impressive/informative article on Great Pashtun leader Wali Khan, whenever I would need any information about the great leader, defenitley I will rash to it because it covers whole of his life's events so comprehensively. Good work Zak! Haider 18:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC) reply

I have recommended article on Wali Khan for as a good featured article on Wali Khan's (article) discussion page. Take care! Haider 21:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC) reply

What further progress about your artilce for GA nominations? Haider 18:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Keep working with it, it will rise insha allah. Tremendous efforts have already been made on it, bieng a Pashtun I know its depth and worth! Haider 12:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Dear Zakksez,

I read your well written article on Pir Roshan. In order to trace the history of my incestors, Tahirkhelis - Yousafzais from Bunair, I am searching information on:

What caused the conflict between Akbar and Yousafzais? Why was Birbal murdered by Yousafzais, eventhough Birbal's mission was to subdue the Roshanniya Movement, that was in odds with aurthodox Yousafzai's? It is said that it was Tahir baba, who finally convinced Akbar to stop chasing Yousafzais to avenge the murder of Birbal.

Could you please guide me to the references that could help putting light on these questions.

I live in Switzerland. We do not have access to libraries with books from India/Pakistan.

Please directly contact me at:

skhan@swisspak.com

Saad Khan 041 32 8414191

Hey Zak,

What I recommend is that you use in-line references in the article. (such as in Iranian peoples) Other than that, it looks great! Once you've fixed the refs, put it up for peer review. Drop me a note if you need more help. Ciao. — Khoikhoi 01:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC) reply

In fact, upon looking at the article again, I think I'll try to fix the refs myself... — Khoikhoi 01:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Ok, done. There are still 3 more refs that I'm not sure where they fit in the article, btw. Also, the article could do with more pictures. — Khoikhoi 02:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC) reply

It's getting pretty close. It might need some copyediting. Then you can add it for a GA nom. — Khoikhoi 05:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello Zak,

the picture of the hyderabad tribunal in 
History of Baluchistan is not Wali Khan.--
Sheikhu 
01:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
reply

Hi again. I highly recommend you ask User:Tony1 to do the copyediting. Do you want me to nominate it for GA or to comment on it? Please clarify. — Khoikhoi 00:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Done. — Khoikhoi 17:41, 28 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Before we get started the below are current issues with the article. Looking over it, I have to say that this article should speak 97 percent, if not 99 on Khan Wali Khan. This article goes in too much detail about Pakistan politics. Talk only about politics that Khan Wali Khan was involved in and always mention him.

The First thing is the lead needs to be improved. All the lead tells me is he was a freedom fighter and politician. The rest of the lead talks about other peoples perspective of him. In all honestly except for the first sentence, the rest of the lead should be removed. Things I would replace it with would be: When, why, how was he a freedom fighter? When and what kind of politician was he? A simpler tip would be thinking of it this way, just write a sentence for every major section that summarizes that section and put it in the lead.

Moving on,

"Khan Abdul Wali Khan was one of the most politically active sons of Badshah Khan. A freedom fighter against British rule in India he espoused secular democratic politics and Pashtun nationalism."

The first section of the Background completely has nothing to with the section. Remove it or place it in a later section. This section is about his early life and that sentence talks about his later life.

Now looking at the article I notice that its subdivided too much. This is a problem because most editors always mention small section in FAC nominations and usually vote oppose because of it. Early life subheading should be deleted and the paragraph under it should be the first paragraph in that section. Also some missing information in this section is which family was he born into?

"he received his early education from Azad Islamia High School which formed part of a chain of schools his father Bacha Khan prominent Pashtun Nationalist, confidante of Gandhi and freedom fighter commonly known as Bacha Khan, had launched to spread education among the Pakhtuns."

seems like a run on sentence.... and you have to read it carefully to barely understand it.

Despite the pacifist influences as a young freedom fighter he seemed exasperated with the Pacificsm.

Starting with this section moving on, again information is thrown at you that you are suppose to know. This early life is suppose to read as if the reader has absolutely no idea who this guy is and is reading about his childhood and knows only what he read so far.

Major tip for this section is explain more about his family.

Political career in brief should be taken out of Background, renamed Timeline or something of that sort, moved to be the last section of the page and expanded to included all major events in his life such as birth, death, etc.

Early politics subheading should be converted into its own section and expanded if possible. Things this section doesnt tell me:

• Why did he step into politics?
• Why was he arrested in 1943?
• What kind of politics was he involved in?
• How did he join this politics?

This article talks about politics but gives no background information on politics in this time period. Reader is expected to know what is Khudai Khidmatgar etc.

His early politics after Pakistan's creation were said to be influenced by two events...

What do you mean his early politics? What were his early politics?

" one his elder brother Ghani Khan's decision to withdraw from politics"'

his elder brother was invovled in politics? This should be explained earlier when again it read as if I was suppose to know that.

His Uncles assassination in front of a young Wali Khan in 1958 influenced him profoundly.

"influenced him profoundly" should be removed and why his uncle was assasinated should explained.

...Wali Khan along with many other politicians at the time were imprisoned...

Why?

One major information that is missing from this section are his political views.

During that period he was disqualified from politics for a period of time.

Why?

Army action in East Pakistan

What action?

NAP

replace with National Awami Party otherwise all this abreviations become confussing. Also explain When, why, was Wali Khan a member of this party and if he wasnt explain his relations to this party.

ZA Bhuttos...Hayat Sherpao...

Who?

widely discredited Hyderabad tribunal

Why were they "widely discredited", and a source would be nice this is a strong statement.

...farcical trial...

delete "farcical "since it violates WP:NPOV. If Wali Khan thought it was "farcical" than state that.

Still his wry sense of humour remained, as his reaction to one of the charges before the Hyderabad Tribunal, that he had been sent Rs 20 million by Indira Gandhi, then Indian Prime Minister, through a certain emissary.

remove "Still his wry sense of humour remained" since its something a friend would say in an interview, its unencyclopedic. Replace if you want with actual facts such as "witnesses state that he laughted when presented the charges" or something that in that sorts depending on why his you say his "sense of humour" remained.

His final stint in prison was considered a more brutal experience.

When, why was his he sent to jail, for how long? "Considered a more brutal experience" considered by who? state that.

His party was banned and a brutal crackdown

banned by who, why?

• Prisoner of conscience I would suggest renaming to "Imprisonments" or something of that sort. The title now since to reflect a certain point of view. Why? well because I dont think people who inprisoned him considered him a "Prisoner of conscience" therefore it reflects someones point of view even if it is an extreme majority.

Should be renamed to "Criticisms" and moved to the near bottom of the page before "Legacy".

...he was in fact more of a secular Pashtun Nationalist,...

Who said?

They are divided way too much. The most there should be 2 sections politics excluding "Early Politics".

As part of the COP.

Since when? Why he join?

candidature of Fatima Jinnah

Cadidature for what?

The election campaign proved a failure, in part because of rigging alleged by the Central government and also because of divisions in the opposition. These divisions were particularly sharp in between Wali Khan and Maulana Bhashani, as Bhashani was alleged to have unofficially supported Ayub Khan because of the governments pro-China policy.

The Combined Opposition Party election campaign was a failure? If yes than that should be stated. If Wali Khan was part of this campaign the why do you call his party the opposition, wouldnt the other party be the opposition since this is his article? What pro-China policy? Who was currently in rule since it talks about "central government"?

NAP into Wali Khan and Bhashani groups.

What do you mean groups? political parties? Wait a minute, I though the article just stated that he was part of COP, now his back to NAP? this article is losing me.

Upon the outbreak of popular unrest in Pakistan against Ayub Khan's rule,...

Why was there an outbreak?

...Democratic Action Committee...

What was it ment to do?

Attempted to provide Ayub Khan with an honourable exit,

from what?

negotiations between Ayub and the opposition continued on May 9 and May 10, 1969

negotiations for what?

However despite a compromise agreement on some issues it is alleged that the Military leadership and it's political allies did not want Ayub to succeed.

Alleged by who?

...disbanding of the One Unit.

huh? who or what is "One Unit"?

resign under pressure by the Military.

Why was the military pressuring him to resign?

...the NAP swept Baluchistan and won a plurality in NWFP

makes no sense. "Swept" in what sense?

However the Awami League's poll victory was rejected by the Military government.

Awami League, you mean "National Awami Party"? Why was it rejected?

"majority Bengalis, from Bhutto: Khan "

whose Bengalis? whose Brutto?

"jointly met Sheikh Mujibur Rahman,"

Who?

"he also wanted to offer support to Mujeeb in the formation of a government, but, it was already too late to break the impasse, as Yahya Khan had already decided on a full scale Military crackdown."

sounds like a news report. Why does he want a military crackdown? on who?

• Get rid of the subheading.

...NAP-JUI with the PPP...

Who?

NAP-JUI government was toppled through defections engineered by the Federal government.

dont get it.

"But Wali Khan firmly put his foot down, sternly held back his infuriated party cadres,"

unencyclopedic, should be rewritten with something like "Wali Khan refused the notion and..."

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto

article still hasn't explained who this is, all this people should be explained who they are on first mention.

I dont see the point of this section. Some of this information should be merged into other sections. Another idea would be to rename "Relationships" and talk about his relationship with all political figures.

being freed in 1977,

When and for what was he in jail for?

• A couple sentences in this section start with "Despite this " please rephrase.

execution of Z.A Bhutto

Why is he being executed?

• All information in Referendum boycott and 1985 elections subsections should be removed since it has nothing to do with Wali Khan.

• Facts are sacred should be removed and the book titles should be transfered in list form into a "Bibliography" section at the bottom of the page.

• I completely dont understand it and I suspect it has nothing to do with Wali Khan but just politics in this time period.
• Why was he against the "Kalabagh Dam"?

Despite popular Pashtun sympathy for their fellow kinsmen facing the brunt of the US attack post 9-11. I dont get understand this sentence.

Many of his critics argue Khan

I would recommend naming just one otherwise this will need a source.

summed Khan up best

WP:NPOV

"his eldest son Asfandyar Wali Khan is now a well respected politician in Pakistani political circles"

WP:NPOV

Like I mentioned, remove all instance of politics that have nothing directly to do with Wali Khan. This article is about him! not his party and not about pakistan politics. The article talks doesnt talk barely about his view also. I still do not understand how he was a freedom fighter. The article has a huge problem with comprehension, I barely understood any of it. Article also doesnt speak of his personal life. His assinations attacks arent covered at all, just a brief overall mention in couple places. Sorry for all the mistakes if there are any and I will check back on the article. Thanks. - Tutmosis 17:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Peera, Hopefully it will be soon done. Haider 21:50, 28 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello, can you help with the Pashtun people page? whatever you have on Pashto literature, performing arts, and in particular Pashto films and music would be greatly appreciated. If you have links then all the better. Trying to get the page to make it as a featured article as people critique. Kind of an insane way of doing it, but what's life without some reckless risk taking? Cheers. Tombseye 04:30, 29 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Oh and I never bothered to find out before, but is Nouroz popular amongst all Pashtuns or just some? Tombseye 04:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Greetings! Thanks for your input. I'm trying to reduce 'controversial' stuff, but the topic itself makes it controversial for some people who just want their way. I mean I wrote most of the article and I did it with zero malice or bad intent and I think it reflects neutral academic views mostly. With that said, I'm gonna do some copyediting as per another user's suggestion. Hmm, that info. on Pashto films is interesting. I think I'll add a little of what you've told me as I think it gives an interesting human dimension to the people who are otherwise viewed as staunchly conservative. Yeah I added a lot of your dances info. into the article and thanks for that. I think we're nearing the end then. I'm going to copyedit it and shorten it and remove whatever is superfluous (hopefully without incurring the wrath of dissenters!). Let me know if you come up with anything else! Cheers. Tombseye 17:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks for letting me know. I'll see if I can add much about Nouruz. I'm in the process of putting in what you told me about the film industry as a lot of it is interesting and I recall Winterbottom's movie and just didn't get around to watching it before. Yeah don't worry about it, you've already been a big help and I do the same thing as I juggle various articles and real life work, but hey that's one of the problems of having a computer. ;) Also, if you need help with whatever articles you're working on just let me know. I'm always happy to oblige given time. Ciao. Tombseye 18:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Okay, I went throught and copyedited the page and made the necessary additions. Let me know what you think and weigh in as to whether you think the article should be a featured article or not at this point. Thanks! Tombseye 19:47, 29 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the suggestions. I added the Hotaki after reading what you wrote as that reminded that they did kind of pave the way for the Durrani Empire. Yeah I know about the other dynasties, but they weren't as Pashtun-dominated and specific as the Durrani empire was (Muslim armies being multi-ethnic and Persian as the lingua fraca etc.) and I think the history sections are better suited to describe the other dynasties. The only reason I kept Ayub Khan is because he's a lot more famous than Ghulam Ishaq Khan. I used the term Punjabi Pathan after seeing it Encyclopedia Britannica and I do realize that Hindko people might be just as well suited, but since mention of them is pretty minimal I let it go. I removed the burqa stuff though as your points are right. Lastly, I think the article might make it to featured article status now: [1]. I put it up and people gave some good criticisms and I simply reworked it as per the problems raised. At this point, I don't see why it can't be a featured article as I think it's as good as another featured article, Tamil people, which helped me in terms of figuring out what was needed. Let me know what you think. Ciao. Tombseye 03:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Okay added Ghulam Ishaq Khan too. Cheers. Tombseye 03:45, 30 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks. I'm in the process of adding the red shirts. Also, I'll change Punjabi Pathans to Hindkowans, as I had no idea it was considered insulting to them to be called Punjabi Pathans. When I encountered some of them in Pakistan, they usually called themselves Pathans, so it took me a while to realize they were a somewhat distinct (though partially related due to geographic proximity) group, which I suspected as their language didn't sound at all like Pashto, but they did seem to speak Pashto as well usually. This same phenomenon takes place with the Brahui and Baloch who are so intermingled that it becomes hard to tell them apart and the Brahui speak Balochi in addition so it makes it all the more confusing. Oh and feel free to support the nomination at the [2]. ;) Tombseye 18:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak. No problem dude, I'd be happy to help out. Contrary to how it may seem, I actually read and edit pretty fast so I can definitely spare a few minutes. The articles are looking a lot better at any rate. Ciao. Tombseye 18:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC) reply

Umeed laram che teek ba yeh, I thought you would take some serious actions agianst Panjabi Pathans but really very sorry to accept that so easily. Where these Panjabi Pathans exists, the people/tribes who speak hindko, would those be considered Panjabi Pashtuns residing in Pashtunkhwa(NWFP)? Will you reckoned Ayub Khan or Gohar Ayub khan as Panjabi Pashtun while believe me I have chatted Gohar Ayub Khan so many times in our mother language Pashto when I was Protocol Officer to CM of Sindh. There are numerous tribes chatted in hindko and accepted it as their mother tongue like Dhond, Karals, Abbassis and many others, those we could mentioned them as just hindowans due to their mother tongue hindko, on the other hand hindko in hazara division, Peshawar, Kohat and DIKhan etc is just accepted as casual dialect (in major towns only) as same as urdu in Karachi etc otherwise Majority of the Pashtun tribes like Yousafzais, Swatis, Mashwanis, Jadoons and Tareens usually chatting in Pashto amongst themselves so their mother tongue is Pashto - will you consider or like them to be called as Panjabi Pathans or hindkowan pathans? In the past outsiders had already made distictions among Pashtun tribes but the time has changed now, it should be our duty to rectify the issues like this or otherwise we would be further divided into more pieces! Kindly consider it as a serious matter. As Pashtuns we are here to respect each and every Pashtun tribe whether smaller or larger. You can see my contributions through Archives (right from no 1 to current) on pashtun talk page, I have been keep taking part in debates only to prove Pashtun is Pashtun and would love to live intact now. If you are happy with Panjabi pathans then I would be right to reckoned the Pashtuns living in interior sindh as Sindhi Pathans and karachi as urdu pathans because they can chat in sindhi and urdu also! You know that if someone father is Pashtun then he would be definetley considered Pashtun, is it accepted to mind if Pashtun married a Panjabi women will become Panjabi Pashtun, while significantly when their offsprings speak pashto! It's really hard for me to explain much due to lack of words in english but I am hopeful that you would have got my main point! There is no need to mention Pashtuns as Panjabi Pashtuns esp when some non Pashtuns would visit a featured article on Pashtuns, just think how he would make his mind about Panjabi Pashtuns while in reality those people no where exists. Regards Haider 21:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Sstarey Ma shey, I wrote to Tomb also about the same matter, he realized that and those unneccessary stuff have been deleted. Yara do you believe in Pollywood glowing on Pashtuns featured article? Pashto proverb "Wai cha kare - Akhpala - Nu biya gila sala". Take care! Haider 21:26, 3 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey buddy, don't sweat it man. I knew where you were coming from and you understood me as well so no problem. I figure we're on the same side, so I've got your back and hell I didn't really see the harm in the terminology used, but I figure it's not important enough to argue over and that Sync guy has a valid point if it's just a term popularized by Punjabis. Yeah, actually my friend who is Pashtun from Afghanistan read the article and thought it was great, but then he grew up in the US since the age of 4. At least it made it to featured article status so it's all good. I started copyediting Khan Wali Khan and I'll try to wrap it up soon. It's pretty good though, but there are some chronological problems such as mentioning his early imprisonment in the politics section, while the reader may not get why or when he was imprisoned for example until the next section. You might want to tinker with that and make it so the article flows from his birth to death, just to avoid confusion. Some more citations would help too, I put in one and will put more as I go along if possible. With a little more work this article could make it to good article status at least. Maybe more depending upon how much work is put into it as you've already got a good handle on it. I'll check out the other article as time permits. Oh and thanks for the barn star as I realize now that they seem to give me some credibility with people who think my edits are wrong. ;) Ciao for now. Tombseye 06:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak. I got your message and actually I put information on the religious background of the Pashtuns under the demographics section. If you want, we can shift it to the culture section or leave it where it is and you can add what you want to. I'm mostly doing some light editing of this book I like, Watchmen, but I do believe that after Iranian peoples makes it to featured article status (hopefully) that I'm gonna probably do some work on a few different things including Persians, History of Armenia, Azerbaijanis, and write a few things for the comics and horror projects. Feel free to read Watchmen and give us your opinion. No pressure at all to vote in favor of it being raised to featured article status as if you don't think it's good enough just say so. I'd just appreciate the vote one way or another. If you think the article has any problems, just put in a comment as I would really appreciate it. I'll look through more of Wali Khan sometime today as well. Cheers! Tombseye 19:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC) reply

What up Zak. Yeah, I've been meaning to help you more with Wali Khan, but I've committed to transform Azeris into a good or FA article as that article has been the subject of intense dispute. Your changes look good on an initial glance though. Yeah, I'm more of a graphic novel fan now as I don't buy comicbooks and I like a lot of DC stuff, but mostly I read certain writers I like (you guys in the UK sure have a lot of good comicbook writers by the way) more than follow a company. Watchmen is one of my faves though and this guy, DC, nominated it for FA and then it got a lot of criticism so I decided to help him by adding sections and whatnot. Now it looks like it'll make it so that should be cool. Oh and I added a religion section under culture in Pashtuns. Feel free to add to it as it is sparse right now. Khoikhoi is going to be adding some awesome pictures, I don't know how he finds them but he does with some tenacity, so the page is going to look a lot better soon. Ciao. Tombseye 22:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak, congrats on making Wali Khan a good article! I wish I could have helped more, but I've overextended myself a bit it seems. Anyway, keep up the good work and maybe it'll become a featured article! I'd recommend using other bios that are featured articles as a template or inspiration of sorts. Let me know if I can be of any help as you've been very helpful when I needed it with Pashtuns. Later. Tombseye 18:15, 14 June 2006 (UTC) reply

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Hey Zak, Manana for your great supporting thumb *Wink and Smile*. Haider 22:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Keep me update about your article Wali Khan, Is it a GA now? Thanks! Haider 23:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Dair kha yara - Mubarak sha, Kho go for any other article one by one, that way you will be able to tune your concenteration - (Batl-e-Huriat of Waziristan) Faqir of Ipi would be challenging one but defenitely you will do it, some stars waiting for you soon! Haider 20:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Zak Khana, You have taken first step and certainly you will take to its last, no need to hurry take your time, I will be happy if I could do something regarding articles insha-allah! I know a book shop owner here in Karachi and got astonished when he informed me about a secret visit of Faqir of Ipi in early 50s at his book shop. Haga shop 'Abbasi Kutub Khana' is considered to be an oldest book shop among few in Karachi. Take care - Haider 23:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello Zakksez. I have done some work on the Gardez, Afghanistan page. Could you please take some time and check the article for spelling-mistakes, etc. That would be great! Thanks. Tajik 15:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Thanks for your contribution on the Gardez page. Perhaps you are interested in the Wikipedia:Iranian Wikipedians' notice board. It's a notice board for Iranian-speaking people, concentrating on Iranian peoples, including Pashtun issues (Pakhtunistan, politics, Pashtun women, etc). The members of the board have helped to turn the Pashtun and Iranian peoples articles (with the latter being Wikipedia's 1000th featured article). Unfortunatly, there are no Pashtuns in the notice board (except for me, I guess, since my grandfather is a Pashtun from Kandahar ;)). We could need some help and we all would be glad if you join the board. Tajik 00:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Haha, I'm glad I'm not the only BG fan on wikipedia! You should check out Moonshadow by DeMatteis. It's great stuff and maybe his best work. Oh and check out Azeris and tell me what you think and/or vote on it however you want here: [3]. If you hate it or have problems with no problem. ;) Cheers. Tombseye 23:40, 14 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Haider brought this up so I'm wondering, are they considered Pashtuns? I mean I'm okay with it since they speak Pashto and all, but is that the general view? Just wondering as I added them in the info. box and religion section. Let me know. Ciao. Tombseye 23:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Zak,

You might need to get it copyedited. You could ask either Silence or Tony. Once you've done that, I think it's ready for a featured article nomination. BTW, what happened to the images? — Khoikhoi 00:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Tony might not be able to help you, but he will probably suggest people who can. I recall saying awhile back that the article needs more pictures, can you think of any (that are already on Wiki) that would fit into some of the sections? — Khoikhoi 00:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi, thx for your message. I'm very busy with work at until 5 July. Ask AndyZ for advice on copy-editors. Research people who've contributed skilfully to articles in your area. For that, see the FAC archives, or the edit history of individual articles. Good luck, and sorry I can't do much at the moment. Tony 01:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC) reply

I too must apologize that I am very busy. I would be happy to copy-edit your article, but I am about to leave on a trip, and will not return (to Wikipedia) until 2 July. If the article still needs it at that time, I would be happy to help. Sorry, RyanG e rbil10 (Drop on in!) 05:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC) reply

Thuresson 09:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC) reply

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WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, come join us. Aelfthrytha 21:28, 4 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak, how's it going? I noticed you nominated Wali Khan for a FA. Looks promising. I'd recommend a few things though, you might want to wikify the names that have no articles such as Rahimullah Yousafzai. Just put in a sentence or two tops as it will make the article look better. I would also maybe move the quote to the body and write prose for the opening. I've seen people complain about that in the past. Also if the quote is more than 2 lines you have to break it off from the body of the text (people will overlook 3 lines, but more than that, no way). In the see also section you should only put in things that haven't been mentioned in the body of the article as it is redundant. Those are just a few things that I would recommend as I've been through this process quite a few times now! Also, probably some copyediting by people not involved in the article might help as well. I'll see if I can do some at some point soon. Cheers. Tombseye 20:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak. Hmm, Dr. Who, really? I've seen the commercials, but never watched the show. Okay, I'll give it a shot. I actually did some copyediting too of things that were missed in Wali Khan. You actually don't have to cut down on the long quotations if you think they are important, but you do have to break them off from the main text as with Azeris for example. Also, any luck on more pictures? Might help even if they're of the North West Frontier or Peshawar. Just something. Also symbols of his political organizations etc. might help too. I'd still recommend shifting the quote in the opening to the main body. Tell you what, you do that and I'll try to work on your opening for you. Basically, you just want to summarize what is in the main body of the article, such as important stuff about Khan. Yeah, it's tough because most people don't know Wali Khan from Adam, and even those who know him don't know much. He was an interesting guy though. Yeah I now try to avoid joining the ethnic group wikiprojects, BUT when you need help I'll probably help you if I have time as I am interested in the Pashtuns and I've learned a fair bit about them through travel and study. I may end up an academic expert on them after I'm done with grad school, but first I'll have to learn the language. Anyway, I'll edit more tomorrow. Just let me know when you move the quote and I'll do what I can to help with the opening. Ciao. Tombseye 09:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak, very good changes. Your new opening addition worked well too so good job! I've been copyediting and looking for small errors and trying to fix sentences whenever possible. Sure, send whatever you have on Pashto. I'm probably going to take some courses at Uni, but whatever else you have probably can't hurt. Anyway, hopefully this article will be in prime condition soon and pass the FA phase! Cheers. Tombseye 17:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak, I would include this quote in the article if possible: "I have been a Pashtun for six thousand years, a Muslim for thirteen hundred years, and a Pakistani for twenty-five." This is probably Khan's most famous saying since Pashtunistan was a big deal to him. Ciao. Tombseye 18:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Finished the copyediting of Wali Khan. Noticed you had the quote way down at the bottom, but just noticed it when I got there! Anyway, I also broke off the longer quotes and did what I could. Probably could be worked on even more, but for now I'd say this article is good to go! Let me know what you think and if you need any more help. Ciao. Tombseye 21:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi, Zak. I think the first thing that must be done is to go through the entire article and make sure absolutely everything is referenced. I wouldn't even bother with the prose in an unreferenced article: if everything is referenced, it's easy to clean up the prose and other stuff. I still see that most of the article is unrefernced. Sandy 04:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Zak Khushala usey, Ummeed laram che Targets auo Goals ba kha wi. I am with you and hope that will be a great step to unite Pashtuns? Allah Pa Amaan ~ Haider 21:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Zak Khana, ofcourse I will try my best to contribute and focus on some bright side of Pashtuns as well on wiki Pashutns, that is our liability now. Let me take some brief looks on your up coming featured article on Wali Khan baba, it might take some time. Take great care yara! Haider 20:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hey Zak. Sorry for not getting back to you. I've been MIA as I've had essays to write and working and whatnot has taken up too much of my time so I was gone. I'm sorry to hear that the article didn't make it. Crap. I thought for sure more people would help out. Well, I think you can simply take the criticism and fix it up some more as per what people said and complained about. I'll help out if need be when I'm around. School starts at the end of the month and then I'll really be MIA, except holidays when I'll probably have more time to drop in. Ah, if only there was more time and we all lived to be 200. Again, sorry for not responding, it seems a few people had some issues and I was gone. Ciao. Tombseye 22:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi Zak. I suggest you go to the village pump. Hopefully you can find help there. — Khoikhoi 18:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC) reply

Hi, I just created the approved stub "Pakistan-ethno-stub" for the huge number of Pakistani tribes and ethnic groups in Pakistan. However, I am undecided on what the display picture should be. I placed the flag of Pakistan on it, but if you can think of something better (an outline of Pakistan, maybe?) please let me know or just change it yourself. For an example of the stub, look here. Thanks-- Thomas.macmillan 02:48, 12 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Please visit [4] page and add your personal email at the bottom for better collaboration, networking and comunication. Thanks :) Omerlives

Please make sure to provide a helpful edit summary (per the instructions and big red box) when editing the nominations list in future. This will help us keep the Good Articles wikiproject running more efficiently. Thanks.  -- Run!  20:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC) reply

You supported Abdul Wali Khan, which has been selected as the Biography WikiProject's new Collaboration of the Fortnight. Please help improve this article to featured article standards. Zak 19:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Hello,

What follows are the thoughts, expressed in their own words, and in the 'protest signs', of the obscure, very small, but very vocal 'activist group' known as "Protest Warrior".

"What's becoming clear is how the religion of Islam is addicted to war and mayhem. Not a radical minority, not a rogue sect, but its very essence is about submission and sacrifice and proving your worth by worshipping death in this life to gain a paradise of orgies and drunkenness. Their entire history is of warfare, and any accomplishments of their so-called Golden Age has been proven to be merely parasitic off the cultures they've conquered and reduced to dhimmi servitude. That every country under sharia is corrupt, belligerent, desolate and barbaric obviously gives them no pause, except to constantly drive them into further psychotic rage as they refuse to ever accept any responsibility for their conditions. They are akin to the powers in Orwell's 1984; there must always be an enemy. It's no surprise that women are treated like property in these countries as that's the only way Muslim men can feed their egos, to dominate others rather than ever actually produce something."

Kfir Alfia and Alan Lipton, founders of "Protest Warrior"

Their 'protest signs'...

Signs

I thought you might be interested in this group's sentiments. They are currently very actively editing their own article on Wiki and there is a lot of 'group think'. Perhaps you might want to become involved in the editing and discussion process on that page. If you do, please don't vandalize, and try to remain civil. Should you not want to involve youself, please forgive my intrusion.

Protest Warrior

Protest Warrior Discussion

NBGPWS 09:30, 28 August 2006 (UTC) reply

Here are some tips on getting this bio up to snuff (all constructive, as I see you have added A LOT of cool stuff)

• Add a full {{ WPBiography}} template
• Check out info in WikiProject:Biography
• Finally GOOD LUCK!

Hackajar 16:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Assalamalaikum bhai saheb. I noticed you started the Pashtun diaspora article. I helped expand the article to some extent. I am wondering if you can help in elaborating it some more. Thanks. Khuda Hafiz. Jdas07 20:37, 6 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Der Aala. So what do you think we should do now with this Pashtun Picture that I uploaded to the Pashtun Sign. Will it stay or should I remove it. -- Marwatt 00:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC) reply

Can you contribute to the Urdu Wikibook (And if you can create a book about Pashto)?

Thanks and Successfuly!

I will take a look again and put my comments on the article talk page as it better to have the comments centralised. RelHistBuff 09:54, 15 September 2006 (UTC) reply

I have left you a barnstar on your user page. No need for thanks. -- Marwatt 02:41, 21 September 2006 (UTC) reply