This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
I've been going through Pearl Jam and replacing the FiveHorizons.com refs (per Quadzilla99's comments). However, refs 39 and 40 don't seem to appear anywhere else; could you perhaps replace them with more reliable sources if you get the chance? CloudNine 10:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
The Original Barnstar | ||
To WesleyDodds, on the occasion of Minneapolis, Minnesota reaching featured article. - Susanlesch 06:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC) |
All of your identified problems have been addressed, except for one, which I have explained why in the FAC. If anything else is incorrect, especially with the new material, just point it out. Regards and best wishes, NSR77 T C 15:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wess, I see you have Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana, and it's cited in the Nirvana article when it says:
"Cobain and Krist Novoselic met in 1985. Both were fans of The Melvins, and often hung out at the band's practice space. After a couple of false starts..."
Now someone changed the meeting year to 1984. Is this outlined in the book? If this is incorrect, you might want to go and revert it. -- Reaper X 23:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to see The Frank and Walters (first two EPS are worth tracking down) on sat night, but a lot of the weekend will be developing the WB "Poetic style" section. The bio is there now, I reckon. Do you think it will be ready for FARC. Ceoil 22:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing. There isnt a whole lot worth saving. Copy editing what is there does not appeal to me at all. But it's a framework, and its here. I've moved the sources to the talk, and there are many many more. Ceoil 21:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Recommend heading to amazon and picking up a copy of this. Your going to need it. Ceoil 20:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wes. Seeing your expertise and talent on improving articles, I was wondering if I could ask you a favour. I have recently made a major revamp to the Billy Talent article, I am trying to really improve it, maybe make it GA status or something. I've put in a request for a peer review, and I haven't had any bites yet. So if you have a few minutes or spare time from your usual tour of alternative articles, could you please take a look over the article and make any points for improvement at the peer review? Anything would be great man. Thanks, cheers. -- Reaper X 00:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wes, can you think of any other editors off the top of your head that would bother to give the article a read and gimme some pointers? Besides your comment (which was really helpful btw, thanks again), the review is dead. I'm waiting for a tumbleweed to roll across the screen. -- Reaper X 06:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi Wesley. Per your request to take a look at "Live Forever", I'll leave some comments on this talk page as concerns the article. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The British video features unusual imagery such as Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall, and a number of scenes are devoted to the band burying drummer Tony McCarroll alive. Less than a year later McCarroll and the band parted company.
The word "unusual" can be seen as POV in my opinion, and casts judgment upon the video.
Does Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall have any significance you're aware of? Have Oasis or critics commented anywhere on what statement that specific image is trying to make?
Also, do the number of scenes devoted to burying drummer McCarroll alive have any significance? Are these scenes just coincidental in hindsight, or were Oasis intentionally hinting at their conflict with McCarroll with the video? Any interviewers quizzed the band on this strange coincidence? I'd suspect some interviews soon after his departure may touch upon this. Did the conflict exist at the time of the video's making?
Was / were the video(s) nominated for any awards, or did it / they win any? Did any critics make comments upon the video(s)? That's worth looking into.
Any reason why a different video was made for the US market? Or, if I state the question differently, what was it about the UK video that they felt wouldn't resonate with the US audience? LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
How well has the song gone down live? Does it appear in all setlists including recent ones, or has it been phased out awhile back?
What do Oasis personally think of this song in terms of how they feel performing the song live, and also how they feel it goes down with an audience live?
How has it been critically received live? It's appeared on all official Oasis live videos / DVDs, so what did the critics say about how well (or not well) Oasis performed the song during those concerts? Are there reviews of these DVDs floating around which specifically comment upon "Live Forever" and how it went down? Are there any reviews of other live performances which comment on the song, especially any festival reviews?
All of the above are worth digging into. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Their official MySpace page lists her as an official band member. She's a band member. How more legitimate can a source get then one of their own websites? Lisa is now an official band member without out a doubt, and there isn't going to be some sort of other confirmation that's more definitive than this. User 10:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
"we just got the new Editors album" - we? Didn't relaise there was more than one of you ;) But yeah, its great, I've been listening to it all week. Ceoil 21:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Grunge music has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. NSR77 T C 17:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for doing some stuff for Dookie. I would greatly like it if it was FA status one day! Though, I need a peer review, which nobody seems to want to do... Xihix 21:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Not sure. I just saw that line (or something like it) in some website i think. Anyway, I can't clarify it, so change it as per your discretion. Tommy Stardust 06:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I have two unanswered messages from you - had c. 9 pints last night, I shakey today to say the least so I'll answear each seperatly least whats left of my brain has to deal with more than one thing at a time. So, I don't like Grunge. I never liked it, any of it, not Nirvana, not Pearl Jam, not - can't think a third band...Black Hole Sun? Grunge happened during the height of Acid House here; at the time I was more about glow sticks and shrooms than plaid and smack. I did see Nirvana in Sir Henrys in Cork supporting Sonic Youth just before Nevermind was released and I stood there and tought to myself 'Why?'. Whatever, Grunge music should be an FA so count me in for sourcing, ce, files etc, but ney content.
I'm thinking of a situation where you -I'm assume you have a sword at home- are bended down on one foot, your lance folding on a poxed wrench begging for the mercy of her bot operated son, pleading that content editors have thesmaerightotliveqasthebotas. Ha! Fool.
Ceoil
23:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't readd copyright violations to this article again. Next time I see WP:NONFREE being abused as much as it was there I'll start handing out warnings. — Moe ε 20:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me or does the smashing pumpkins article not mention anything about Corgan's nasal/whiny singing? Tommy Stardust 18:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Found mentions here [4], [5], [6]. For more just Google "billy corgan nasal voice". I think its rather important at least a mention is made in the article. Tommy Stardust 20:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello Wesley,
I appriciate what you are saying but i think perhaps you underestimate the importance of the Jason Todd character in popular culture.
Jason Todd is one of THE most imporant characters in modern graphical literature. He was Robin - of 'Batman and Robin'. He was the Robin which the American public decided to kill. The death of Robin is one of THE most talked about events in comic book history. The death of Jason Todd impacted upon Batman (perhaps the most important character in modern graphical literature) for 20 years. His recent return has been one of the most talked about events in comic books over the last five years.
Furthermore Jason Todd epitomises the impact of both DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis - in that he has two very difference origins / personalities / careers as Robin due to the first Crisis, and he has returned to life following the second Crisis.
I propose that 'the general reader' would like some information about how that character developed. And I'm sorry - I do not feel that there was too much information in my entry (Perhaps you should read the artcile on Tim Drake to see how much information people would like about a particular Robin's career - I know he has been robin for longer, but frankly his impact in comic book lore is still significantly less that Jason Todd's). The current article offers 540 words for Jason Todd's Post-Crisis career as Robin. My version provided 1550 - hardly excessive (Tim Drake's career as Robin gets over 4100 words).
This is an encyclopedic entry. People who visit this sort of article have a right/want to know which villains Jason came across during his career. They have a right/want to know that he was a successful crimefighter who met the President etc. they have a right/want to know the progression of the character from innocent boy to (possibly) anti-heroic murderer.
My article provided this information - To be honest, when I visited this site I felt that the present article provided the reader with very little information about Jason's career as Robin. The present version is simply not very good.
It uses flowery language - which expresses writers own opinion... "Unlike Grayson or the pre-Crisis Jason, the post-Crisis Jason never blossoms under Batman's tutelage" What the is this supposed to mean to anybody??? Jason never 'blossoms'?? I think perhaps that my article describes Jason's success and failures - helping the reader decide for themseleves whether the character 'blossoms'.
"Jason discovers his mother was not his biological mother" Erm....ok. However, The present article provide no infomration about Jason's parents in the first place. It is vital to his character that his father was a criminal killed by one of Batman's arch foes. This is the essence of Jason's rage - against both crime and Batman. It is vital to show how his murderous tendancies developed over time - this IS Jason's chatacter. But anyway....
The present article also uses some slightly innapropriate language for the sections..."In 1988's "A Death in the Family" storyline" This is not 'Fictional Character history' this is a pubication detail.
I appriciate that your concern is for the interests of the 'general reader'. However, I feel that for the reader of comics since before the present Grant Morrison run (such as those who remember Doug Moench's first run) there is a need for Jason's complete chcarcter history. At present this article is scarcely encyclopedic. To be frank the section on the pre-crisis Jason also needs expanding. This character existed for about four years - a lot happened to the lad.
Basically I propose re-inserting my more detailed entry and seeing whether anybody other than yourself thinks that it puts too much information on this page. I will do this on Monday unless too many people object.
I thought about that too, but its a dreadful cover - all oasis cover art is dreadful. Wooden floors, swimming pools, blue on black, odd angles...I'm too nice a person to take them up on it. Go for it though, if you think you can restrain yourself. Ceoil 21:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. Note that this is quite unnecessary, as both links work the same. Also, capitalizing has the disadvantage that it may give the incorrect impression that genres should be capitalized (see WP:MUSTARD#Capitalization), which as I'm sure you know is a common mistake. -- PEJL 14:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
A relatively new user has put the article up for FAC. I don't believe this was done under good judgment. Just wanted to inform you of something that caught my eye. Best wishes, NSR77 T C 04:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The only people who classify it as metal are the musically ignorant who think anything thats loud, heavy, fast, and had has harsh vocal is metal. I guess that means I should add Crust punk, D-beat, and Hardcore punk to the template. I hope this doesn't come off a mad or angry, because I'm not. I just think its stupid to keep it on there when the article states that its a punk sub genre. And I'm not calling you musically ignorant, because from my year or so of editing, I know that you know A LOT more about music than I do. Inhumer 22:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Sure, not a problem. I'll try and start this weekend (weekdays aren't too good, with work and all). Also, I have the book Babylon's Burning a publication that covers a pretty thorough amount of grunge history. Otherwise, I'll start compiling some mainstream web based material for the article. Regards, NSR77 T C 20:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
I, Grim-Gym hereby award you this barnstar for your relentless commitment to the Alternative Music Collaboration of the Week; and for fanatically editing the project's chosen article, devoid of any reluctance or prejudice whatsoever. Grim-Gym 04:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC) |
I'll give a hand with this one where I can. One glaring thing I notice is the article says "The album debuted at #2 on the Billboard 200, selling approximately 150,000 copies in its first week." This is not true, and I checked the cited source. The cited source says "nearly 150, 000", not "approximately". To the nearest thousand, the actual figure was 145, 000 according to Nielsen Soundscan - check here. LuciferMorgan 09:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have the star yet, but in the FA articles list, it's listed. Xihix 18:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I recently restored an edit concerning the planned, but rejected Earth-Two counterpart of Jason Todd. You mentioned deleting it because a messageboard is an unreliable source. Fair enough, but the info was indeed printed in an interview of the Infinite Crisis Hardcover. 71.120.233.114 09:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Replied to your comments. NSR77 T C 15:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I really like that soppy, sentimental, trite, McCartney song about a child; so if you wanna go for it, I'll help. Ceoil 23:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
You know, about the only reliable source I can find is this. I spent ages searching CNN, Rolling Stone, Time, NME, etc and I found jack squat. I guess it's because I haven't edited the article and don't really know what you're looking for. But I can find no general overviews of grunge history online, which is rather disappointing. Kamryn · Talk 07:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations on Be Here Now getting to FA. LuciferMorgan 16:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
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21:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC) .
:D That's one of my favorite albums ever. Nice to know that someone noticed my 33⅓ subpage organizer thing (although I really have to set a schedule for updating it). Also, a long overdue thanks for helping with and making suggestions to improve the stuff I've done. -- Brandt Luke Zorn 10:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
"I prefer Ride's Nowhere when it comes to shoegaze opuses". Dear, oh dear. We had this discussion before; you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Dude (as you yanks say); seriously. Ceoil 14:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Im talking to myself at this stage, but wolf like me; TV on the radio & Such A Small Love. Ceoil 18:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Have you ever considered them for a Featured Topic? NSR77 T C 01:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Go for it. It also might be worth going for a COTW on that article. On other matters, I'm currently working on Pixies discography; do you think I should include all the promotional singles? CloudNine 07:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I've got access to a Beatles songbook that covers "Hey Jude" in depth; it describes the song in detail and has the vocal and piano parts. Let me know if you want me to transcribe parts or copy out the description for your reference. Plus I'd be happy to help with cleanup. CloudNine 19:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Will you stop removing timelines? I want to create clear overviews about related genres. A visual time line gives a better visual overview to certain related genres (protopunk-punk-harcore-noise-grunge), than a large endless list or text. The time lines may be too long, if so, feel free to shorten them and cut out the less notable bands. Houtlijm 07:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Christ indeed. Anyway, I have some great bits and pieces on the recording and marketing of loveless, I'd say a collab. of the week is premature. A few weeks adding content are left yet, there is a great story here, and I'd like to do with this article what you said you'd like to do with REM. Ceoil 23:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for lending a hand on the article. I noticed that you made some changes to his introductory sentences, can you make those same changes at the Batman example provided at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/exemplars#Comic_book_characters for consistency? Much appreciated. Lord Sesshomaru 23:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey. I was just attacked for reviewing BSSM's FAC, and crucified for misusing the word "fragment". I trust you as an editor and you're a neutral observer here; so if you could go through my review and tell me if I really am full of horseshit, I would really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Grim-Gym 07:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Yep, but what the hell. MES is the best human I've come across yet. FSA you should definitely look up. Ceoil 21:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Follow the links from here, also work outwards from here. Ceoil 22:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
To be fair, by comparison, the fact that they are a bunch of loosers was never lost on the VPs. Fine, they looked like goths (or did 25 years ago) but they were never and aint no goths. There's a link here with MBV, the two bands were friends during the mid 80s, during a time when VP were great and MBV were really really shit. My thoughs at the time were that they were all the same, Dublin bands who needs them. We had 5 go down to the sea and Microdisney after all, and didnt need to all head to london as soon as we could breed. Ceoil 22:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I was hoping someone would one day rewrite the article. Because it's become such a mess that's the only way I can see it as being cleaned-up. I suggest if you're not so up to scratch on Wolverine's stories, just write fully from a real world perspective. Alientraveller 22:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually I'm quite pleased that you were able to recover a somewhat negative review. I searched tirelessly (even Entertainment Weekly, which came up with no "BSSM" related hits). I'll incorporate the review into the article now. NSR77 T C 23:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Unfortunately, I've been too busy in other areas of Wikipedia to help with copy-editing Sorry :( — Deckill er 20:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not so sure what I really want to do know, and certainly the Tim Burton Batman film is something I'm not such a big fan of (I love Burton, but he admitted he wasn't a comic book fan). Still, I can help out every now and then.
As for Transformers (toy line), I don't think there's ever been a definitive document, but you can try just look through all the stuff I used for Transformers (fiction). Alientraveller 13:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes. The golden hoard, 5 go down to the sea, Rollerskate Skinny [7], Sultans of Ping, Frank and Walters (1st EP only), Wormhole (1st EP only), Whipping Boy, Future Kings of Spain [8]. And also this [9], English guys, but funny all the same. Early something happens, at a strach; if you like the Waterboys. Ceoil 00:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Q, the fuckers, ran an issue 'exploring' (actually they just listed) the greatest (yuck) guitarists of the last .... yrs. Sumner was not there, Shields was not there either. I'm tempted to tool up and head for the nearest high rise library ;). Ceoil 12:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
lol and thanks. I'm really obsessed these days with harbour coat. have you seen it on any live albums or vids. Ceoil 03:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
You are correct, I guess I missed that, so my apologies. However, it still would not have been heading towards a pass so I'm not going to reopen it. I suggest you renominate it. -- Scorpion 0422 15:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I hope you will not mind my restoring the funny panel - it speaks volumes about gay innuendo. Good work on the article, by the way. Haiduc 02:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
My only concern would be the "Origin of the term grunge". That needs a little expansion, probably from the huge footnote at the bottom. Apart from that, I think the article will pass FAR. (not a lot of responses on the FAR itself though). CloudNine 09:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
That Time article might be useful for the effect of grunge on the Seattle music scene (possibly could be incorporated into the last paragraph of "Mainstream success"?). I don't think the article mentions record companies signing everything in Seattle (I think Q's grunge edition talks about that). Some of it may be useful for the "Decline in popularity" section (esp. the first two paragraphs); this quote might be worth working into the text (perhaps in some sort of anti-mainstream sentence):
“ | Seattle rockers take almost as much pride in their ornery individuality as in their music. "I can't stand it when people come up to me and say, 'Congratulations on your success!' " Cobain told a music magazine recently. "I want to ask them, 'Do you like the songs?' Selling 2 million records isn't useful to me unless they're good." | ” |
Last para of the second page talks about out-of-town bands moving to Seattle; another source for the last para of "Early development". I didn't know that Nirvana were directly influenced by Husker Du (I always thought it was through the Pixies). By the way, I won't be editing at my normal level next week; I'll try to contribute to the COTW though. It's a shame that FAC is a little slow at the moment (hopefully just a holiday slow-down). CloudNine 19:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Acknowledged. We should also expand the number of DYKs (and use a random selection per line each time, like Portal:Cuba). CloudNine 09:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Wesley. I was wondering if you could weigh in with some feedback at this peer review? The Slayer WikiProject is hoping to raise this article to Featured Article status in the near future. Thanks for your time. LuciferMorgan 17:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I think (hope? pray?) I would have been cooler if not for DyK's reemergence this past week. As it is, I'm all prepared to go to war over...oh god...The Cowboy Cop. I'm out of bourbon, so I may just have to cry.
By the way--been traveling for most of the past two months. I did get your email aways back and checked out your real-life activities. A fellow late-night DJ, very good. I'd tell you what my on-air nickname at my college station was, but, um, it's a couple degrees more embarrassing than, say, The Cowboy Cop, so I won't. If I recall correctly from the playlist you had online, something from Kate Bush's Hounds of Love was on there. I'm not sure what it indicates (or--maybe I can guess and don't want to), but that's probably the CD I've listened to most often over the past eight years.
After having just gone crazy on tone cluster, don't have any significant projects here at the moment other than DyK patrol, so if you have anything, I'm happy to lend a hand. Alternative rock in good shape? Best, Dan— DCGeist 05:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm taking the liberty of bolding the current teams that DC Characters are in, since the long affiliation list might be confusing to some, and emphasizing current affiliation by bolding may translate a bit better. Batman's a part of all that's listed there, is the reason. -- CmdrClow 07:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
How is the FAR going. Any specific areas you want help with. Ceoil 10:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, the lead's the only part lagging at this point. I'll see if I can make something of it. It would probably be worth it to get Loveless to GA status first, and then get a peer review, and then an FAC later, although I may not have as much time to edit Wikipedia in general now that school's started. -- Brandt Luke Zorn 07:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
"...by singer/guitarist Kurt Cobain and bassist Krist Novoselic" - That I believe may cause some trouble with User:ChrisB. I've seen him revert things like that before. His main argument will be that "Krist isn't just a bassist - he plays [12-string] guitar too". I agree with you that it looks better with the instruments in their name but he is, almost guaranteed, to contend it. Just thought I'd give you the heads up. Scarian Talk 20:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | → | Archive 10 |
I've been going through Pearl Jam and replacing the FiveHorizons.com refs (per Quadzilla99's comments). However, refs 39 and 40 don't seem to appear anywhere else; could you perhaps replace them with more reliable sources if you get the chance? CloudNine 10:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
The Original Barnstar | ||
To WesleyDodds, on the occasion of Minneapolis, Minnesota reaching featured article. - Susanlesch 06:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC) |
All of your identified problems have been addressed, except for one, which I have explained why in the FAC. If anything else is incorrect, especially with the new material, just point it out. Regards and best wishes, NSR77 T C 15:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wess, I see you have Come as You Are: The Story of Nirvana, and it's cited in the Nirvana article when it says:
"Cobain and Krist Novoselic met in 1985. Both were fans of The Melvins, and often hung out at the band's practice space. After a couple of false starts..."
Now someone changed the meeting year to 1984. Is this outlined in the book? If this is incorrect, you might want to go and revert it. -- Reaper X 23:52, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to see The Frank and Walters (first two EPS are worth tracking down) on sat night, but a lot of the weekend will be developing the WB "Poetic style" section. The bio is there now, I reckon. Do you think it will be ready for FARC. Ceoil 22:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing. There isnt a whole lot worth saving. Copy editing what is there does not appeal to me at all. But it's a framework, and its here. I've moved the sources to the talk, and there are many many more. Ceoil 21:54, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Recommend heading to amazon and picking up a copy of this. Your going to need it. Ceoil 20:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wes. Seeing your expertise and talent on improving articles, I was wondering if I could ask you a favour. I have recently made a major revamp to the Billy Talent article, I am trying to really improve it, maybe make it GA status or something. I've put in a request for a peer review, and I haven't had any bites yet. So if you have a few minutes or spare time from your usual tour of alternative articles, could you please take a look over the article and make any points for improvement at the peer review? Anything would be great man. Thanks, cheers. -- Reaper X 00:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Wes, can you think of any other editors off the top of your head that would bother to give the article a read and gimme some pointers? Besides your comment (which was really helpful btw, thanks again), the review is dead. I'm waiting for a tumbleweed to roll across the screen. -- Reaper X 06:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi Wesley. Per your request to take a look at "Live Forever", I'll leave some comments on this talk page as concerns the article. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
The British video features unusual imagery such as Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall, and a number of scenes are devoted to the band burying drummer Tony McCarroll alive. Less than a year later McCarroll and the band parted company.
The word "unusual" can be seen as POV in my opinion, and casts judgment upon the video.
Does Liam Gallagher sitting on a chair affixed to a wall have any significance you're aware of? Have Oasis or critics commented anywhere on what statement that specific image is trying to make?
Also, do the number of scenes devoted to burying drummer McCarroll alive have any significance? Are these scenes just coincidental in hindsight, or were Oasis intentionally hinting at their conflict with McCarroll with the video? Any interviewers quizzed the band on this strange coincidence? I'd suspect some interviews soon after his departure may touch upon this. Did the conflict exist at the time of the video's making?
Was / were the video(s) nominated for any awards, or did it / they win any? Did any critics make comments upon the video(s)? That's worth looking into.
Any reason why a different video was made for the US market? Or, if I state the question differently, what was it about the UK video that they felt wouldn't resonate with the US audience? LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
How well has the song gone down live? Does it appear in all setlists including recent ones, or has it been phased out awhile back?
What do Oasis personally think of this song in terms of how they feel performing the song live, and also how they feel it goes down with an audience live?
How has it been critically received live? It's appeared on all official Oasis live videos / DVDs, so what did the critics say about how well (or not well) Oasis performed the song during those concerts? Are there reviews of these DVDs floating around which specifically comment upon "Live Forever" and how it went down? Are there any reviews of other live performances which comment on the song, especially any festival reviews?
All of the above are worth digging into. LuciferMorgan 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Their official MySpace page lists her as an official band member. She's a band member. How more legitimate can a source get then one of their own websites? Lisa is now an official band member without out a doubt, and there isn't going to be some sort of other confirmation that's more definitive than this. User 10:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
"we just got the new Editors album" - we? Didn't relaise there was more than one of you ;) But yeah, its great, I've been listening to it all week. Ceoil 21:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
Grunge music has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. NSR77 T C 17:06, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for doing some stuff for Dookie. I would greatly like it if it was FA status one day! Though, I need a peer review, which nobody seems to want to do... Xihix 21:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Not sure. I just saw that line (or something like it) in some website i think. Anyway, I can't clarify it, so change it as per your discretion. Tommy Stardust 06:25, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I have two unanswered messages from you - had c. 9 pints last night, I shakey today to say the least so I'll answear each seperatly least whats left of my brain has to deal with more than one thing at a time. So, I don't like Grunge. I never liked it, any of it, not Nirvana, not Pearl Jam, not - can't think a third band...Black Hole Sun? Grunge happened during the height of Acid House here; at the time I was more about glow sticks and shrooms than plaid and smack. I did see Nirvana in Sir Henrys in Cork supporting Sonic Youth just before Nevermind was released and I stood there and tought to myself 'Why?'. Whatever, Grunge music should be an FA so count me in for sourcing, ce, files etc, but ney content.
I'm thinking of a situation where you -I'm assume you have a sword at home- are bended down on one foot, your lance folding on a poxed wrench begging for the mercy of her bot operated son, pleading that content editors have thesmaerightotliveqasthebotas. Ha! Fool.
Ceoil
23:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Don't readd copyright violations to this article again. Next time I see WP:NONFREE being abused as much as it was there I'll start handing out warnings. — Moe ε 20:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me or does the smashing pumpkins article not mention anything about Corgan's nasal/whiny singing? Tommy Stardust 18:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Found mentions here [4], [5], [6]. For more just Google "billy corgan nasal voice". I think its rather important at least a mention is made in the article. Tommy Stardust 20:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hello Wesley,
I appriciate what you are saying but i think perhaps you underestimate the importance of the Jason Todd character in popular culture.
Jason Todd is one of THE most imporant characters in modern graphical literature. He was Robin - of 'Batman and Robin'. He was the Robin which the American public decided to kill. The death of Robin is one of THE most talked about events in comic book history. The death of Jason Todd impacted upon Batman (perhaps the most important character in modern graphical literature) for 20 years. His recent return has been one of the most talked about events in comic books over the last five years.
Furthermore Jason Todd epitomises the impact of both DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths and Infinite Crisis - in that he has two very difference origins / personalities / careers as Robin due to the first Crisis, and he has returned to life following the second Crisis.
I propose that 'the general reader' would like some information about how that character developed. And I'm sorry - I do not feel that there was too much information in my entry (Perhaps you should read the artcile on Tim Drake to see how much information people would like about a particular Robin's career - I know he has been robin for longer, but frankly his impact in comic book lore is still significantly less that Jason Todd's). The current article offers 540 words for Jason Todd's Post-Crisis career as Robin. My version provided 1550 - hardly excessive (Tim Drake's career as Robin gets over 4100 words).
This is an encyclopedic entry. People who visit this sort of article have a right/want to know which villains Jason came across during his career. They have a right/want to know that he was a successful crimefighter who met the President etc. they have a right/want to know the progression of the character from innocent boy to (possibly) anti-heroic murderer.
My article provided this information - To be honest, when I visited this site I felt that the present article provided the reader with very little information about Jason's career as Robin. The present version is simply not very good.
It uses flowery language - which expresses writers own opinion... "Unlike Grayson or the pre-Crisis Jason, the post-Crisis Jason never blossoms under Batman's tutelage" What the is this supposed to mean to anybody??? Jason never 'blossoms'?? I think perhaps that my article describes Jason's success and failures - helping the reader decide for themseleves whether the character 'blossoms'.
"Jason discovers his mother was not his biological mother" Erm....ok. However, The present article provide no infomration about Jason's parents in the first place. It is vital to his character that his father was a criminal killed by one of Batman's arch foes. This is the essence of Jason's rage - against both crime and Batman. It is vital to show how his murderous tendancies developed over time - this IS Jason's chatacter. But anyway....
The present article also uses some slightly innapropriate language for the sections..."In 1988's "A Death in the Family" storyline" This is not 'Fictional Character history' this is a pubication detail.
I appriciate that your concern is for the interests of the 'general reader'. However, I feel that for the reader of comics since before the present Grant Morrison run (such as those who remember Doug Moench's first run) there is a need for Jason's complete chcarcter history. At present this article is scarcely encyclopedic. To be frank the section on the pre-crisis Jason also needs expanding. This character existed for about four years - a lot happened to the lad.
Basically I propose re-inserting my more detailed entry and seeing whether anybody other than yourself thinks that it puts too much information on this page. I will do this on Monday unless too many people object.
I thought about that too, but its a dreadful cover - all oasis cover art is dreadful. Wooden floors, swimming pools, blue on black, odd angles...I'm too nice a person to take them up on it. Go for it though, if you think you can restrain yourself. Ceoil 21:51, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. Note that this is quite unnecessary, as both links work the same. Also, capitalizing has the disadvantage that it may give the incorrect impression that genres should be capitalized (see WP:MUSTARD#Capitalization), which as I'm sure you know is a common mistake. -- PEJL 14:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
A relatively new user has put the article up for FAC. I don't believe this was done under good judgment. Just wanted to inform you of something that caught my eye. Best wishes, NSR77 T C 04:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The only people who classify it as metal are the musically ignorant who think anything thats loud, heavy, fast, and had has harsh vocal is metal. I guess that means I should add Crust punk, D-beat, and Hardcore punk to the template. I hope this doesn't come off a mad or angry, because I'm not. I just think its stupid to keep it on there when the article states that its a punk sub genre. And I'm not calling you musically ignorant, because from my year or so of editing, I know that you know A LOT more about music than I do. Inhumer 22:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Sure, not a problem. I'll try and start this weekend (weekdays aren't too good, with work and all). Also, I have the book Babylon's Burning a publication that covers a pretty thorough amount of grunge history. Otherwise, I'll start compiling some mainstream web based material for the article. Regards, NSR77 T C 20:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
The Editor's Barnstar
The Editor's Barnstar | ||
I, Grim-Gym hereby award you this barnstar for your relentless commitment to the Alternative Music Collaboration of the Week; and for fanatically editing the project's chosen article, devoid of any reluctance or prejudice whatsoever. Grim-Gym 04:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC) |
I'll give a hand with this one where I can. One glaring thing I notice is the article says "The album debuted at #2 on the Billboard 200, selling approximately 150,000 copies in its first week." This is not true, and I checked the cited source. The cited source says "nearly 150, 000", not "approximately". To the nearest thousand, the actual figure was 145, 000 according to Nielsen Soundscan - check here. LuciferMorgan 09:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't have the star yet, but in the FA articles list, it's listed. Xihix 18:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
I recently restored an edit concerning the planned, but rejected Earth-Two counterpart of Jason Todd. You mentioned deleting it because a messageboard is an unreliable source. Fair enough, but the info was indeed printed in an interview of the Infinite Crisis Hardcover. 71.120.233.114 09:28, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Replied to your comments. NSR77 T C 15:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I really like that soppy, sentimental, trite, McCartney song about a child; so if you wanna go for it, I'll help. Ceoil 23:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
You know, about the only reliable source I can find is this. I spent ages searching CNN, Rolling Stone, Time, NME, etc and I found jack squat. I guess it's because I haven't edited the article and don't really know what you're looking for. But I can find no general overviews of grunge history online, which is rather disappointing. Kamryn · Talk 07:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations on Be Here Now getting to FA. LuciferMorgan 16:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
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21:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC) .
:D That's one of my favorite albums ever. Nice to know that someone noticed my 33⅓ subpage organizer thing (although I really have to set a schedule for updating it). Also, a long overdue thanks for helping with and making suggestions to improve the stuff I've done. -- Brandt Luke Zorn 10:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
"I prefer Ride's Nowhere when it comes to shoegaze opuses". Dear, oh dear. We had this discussion before; you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Dude (as you yanks say); seriously. Ceoil 14:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Im talking to myself at this stage, but wolf like me; TV on the radio & Such A Small Love. Ceoil 18:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Have you ever considered them for a Featured Topic? NSR77 T C 01:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
Go for it. It also might be worth going for a COTW on that article. On other matters, I'm currently working on Pixies discography; do you think I should include all the promotional singles? CloudNine 07:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
By the way, I've got access to a Beatles songbook that covers "Hey Jude" in depth; it describes the song in detail and has the vocal and piano parts. Let me know if you want me to transcribe parts or copy out the description for your reference. Plus I'd be happy to help with cleanup. CloudNine 19:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Will you stop removing timelines? I want to create clear overviews about related genres. A visual time line gives a better visual overview to certain related genres (protopunk-punk-harcore-noise-grunge), than a large endless list or text. The time lines may be too long, if so, feel free to shorten them and cut out the less notable bands. Houtlijm 07:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Christ indeed. Anyway, I have some great bits and pieces on the recording and marketing of loveless, I'd say a collab. of the week is premature. A few weeks adding content are left yet, there is a great story here, and I'd like to do with this article what you said you'd like to do with REM. Ceoil 23:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for lending a hand on the article. I noticed that you made some changes to his introductory sentences, can you make those same changes at the Batman example provided at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics/exemplars#Comic_book_characters for consistency? Much appreciated. Lord Sesshomaru 23:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Hey. I was just attacked for reviewing BSSM's FAC, and crucified for misusing the word "fragment". I trust you as an editor and you're a neutral observer here; so if you could go through my review and tell me if I really am full of horseshit, I would really appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Grim-Gym 07:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Yep, but what the hell. MES is the best human I've come across yet. FSA you should definitely look up. Ceoil 21:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Follow the links from here, also work outwards from here. Ceoil 22:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
To be fair, by comparison, the fact that they are a bunch of loosers was never lost on the VPs. Fine, they looked like goths (or did 25 years ago) but they were never and aint no goths. There's a link here with MBV, the two bands were friends during the mid 80s, during a time when VP were great and MBV were really really shit. My thoughs at the time were that they were all the same, Dublin bands who needs them. We had 5 go down to the sea and Microdisney after all, and didnt need to all head to london as soon as we could breed. Ceoil 22:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I was hoping someone would one day rewrite the article. Because it's become such a mess that's the only way I can see it as being cleaned-up. I suggest if you're not so up to scratch on Wolverine's stories, just write fully from a real world perspective. Alientraveller 22:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually I'm quite pleased that you were able to recover a somewhat negative review. I searched tirelessly (even Entertainment Weekly, which came up with no "BSSM" related hits). I'll incorporate the review into the article now. NSR77 T C 23:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Unfortunately, I've been too busy in other areas of Wikipedia to help with copy-editing Sorry :( — Deckill er 20:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not so sure what I really want to do know, and certainly the Tim Burton Batman film is something I'm not such a big fan of (I love Burton, but he admitted he wasn't a comic book fan). Still, I can help out every now and then.
As for Transformers (toy line), I don't think there's ever been a definitive document, but you can try just look through all the stuff I used for Transformers (fiction). Alientraveller 13:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes. The golden hoard, 5 go down to the sea, Rollerskate Skinny [7], Sultans of Ping, Frank and Walters (1st EP only), Wormhole (1st EP only), Whipping Boy, Future Kings of Spain [8]. And also this [9], English guys, but funny all the same. Early something happens, at a strach; if you like the Waterboys. Ceoil 00:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Q, the fuckers, ran an issue 'exploring' (actually they just listed) the greatest (yuck) guitarists of the last .... yrs. Sumner was not there, Shields was not there either. I'm tempted to tool up and head for the nearest high rise library ;). Ceoil 12:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
lol and thanks. I'm really obsessed these days with harbour coat. have you seen it on any live albums or vids. Ceoil 03:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
You are correct, I guess I missed that, so my apologies. However, it still would not have been heading towards a pass so I'm not going to reopen it. I suggest you renominate it. -- Scorpion 0422 15:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
I hope you will not mind my restoring the funny panel - it speaks volumes about gay innuendo. Good work on the article, by the way. Haiduc 02:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
My only concern would be the "Origin of the term grunge". That needs a little expansion, probably from the huge footnote at the bottom. Apart from that, I think the article will pass FAR. (not a lot of responses on the FAR itself though). CloudNine 09:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
That Time article might be useful for the effect of grunge on the Seattle music scene (possibly could be incorporated into the last paragraph of "Mainstream success"?). I don't think the article mentions record companies signing everything in Seattle (I think Q's grunge edition talks about that). Some of it may be useful for the "Decline in popularity" section (esp. the first two paragraphs); this quote might be worth working into the text (perhaps in some sort of anti-mainstream sentence):
“ | Seattle rockers take almost as much pride in their ornery individuality as in their music. "I can't stand it when people come up to me and say, 'Congratulations on your success!' " Cobain told a music magazine recently. "I want to ask them, 'Do you like the songs?' Selling 2 million records isn't useful to me unless they're good." | ” |
Last para of the second page talks about out-of-town bands moving to Seattle; another source for the last para of "Early development". I didn't know that Nirvana were directly influenced by Husker Du (I always thought it was through the Pixies). By the way, I won't be editing at my normal level next week; I'll try to contribute to the COTW though. It's a shame that FAC is a little slow at the moment (hopefully just a holiday slow-down). CloudNine 19:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Acknowledged. We should also expand the number of DYKs (and use a random selection per line each time, like Portal:Cuba). CloudNine 09:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Wesley. I was wondering if you could weigh in with some feedback at this peer review? The Slayer WikiProject is hoping to raise this article to Featured Article status in the near future. Thanks for your time. LuciferMorgan 17:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I think (hope? pray?) I would have been cooler if not for DyK's reemergence this past week. As it is, I'm all prepared to go to war over...oh god...The Cowboy Cop. I'm out of bourbon, so I may just have to cry.
By the way--been traveling for most of the past two months. I did get your email aways back and checked out your real-life activities. A fellow late-night DJ, very good. I'd tell you what my on-air nickname at my college station was, but, um, it's a couple degrees more embarrassing than, say, The Cowboy Cop, so I won't. If I recall correctly from the playlist you had online, something from Kate Bush's Hounds of Love was on there. I'm not sure what it indicates (or--maybe I can guess and don't want to), but that's probably the CD I've listened to most often over the past eight years.
After having just gone crazy on tone cluster, don't have any significant projects here at the moment other than DyK patrol, so if you have anything, I'm happy to lend a hand. Alternative rock in good shape? Best, Dan— DCGeist 05:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm taking the liberty of bolding the current teams that DC Characters are in, since the long affiliation list might be confusing to some, and emphasizing current affiliation by bolding may translate a bit better. Batman's a part of all that's listed there, is the reason. -- CmdrClow 07:52, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
How is the FAR going. Any specific areas you want help with. Ceoil 10:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, the lead's the only part lagging at this point. I'll see if I can make something of it. It would probably be worth it to get Loveless to GA status first, and then get a peer review, and then an FAC later, although I may not have as much time to edit Wikipedia in general now that school's started. -- Brandt Luke Zorn 07:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
"...by singer/guitarist Kurt Cobain and bassist Krist Novoselic" - That I believe may cause some trouble with User:ChrisB. I've seen him revert things like that before. His main argument will be that "Krist isn't just a bassist - he plays [12-string] guitar too". I agree with you that it looks better with the instruments in their name but he is, almost guaranteed, to contend it. Just thought I'd give you the heads up. Scarian Talk 20:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)