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Your change of the title has great merit and yet alters the significance of the content of the article as it stands. Could you please give some reason for your decision to change the title please and on the article's
talk page Do you intend to add more content or delete parts o fit to better reflect the new title?--
Ziji
(
talk
email)
01:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
If you could respond to a query regarding your move of this article, I'd very much appreciate it. Best wishes, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 15:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
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14:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
i don't know who muncie is or what he/she has written -- i am going on what i remember from that time. i initially changed the sentence to include "and the early 1970s" but someone took that out so i decided to expand the sentence
i'm not too pushed about this but i do think "early 1970s" should stay in since the same situation that was going on in the late 1960s continued well into the 1970s, especially after kent state
thanks, trish
rissa at panix dot com
(i realize i should log in before i make editing changes but usually i'm just correcting spelling or adding links. i will in the future, however) Risssa 05:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
In much of the "Hippie" article, you seem to tolerate appropriate summarization. Then, as with your recent objections to the Hunter/Laughlin issue, you label it synthesis, which I don't think it is.
Admittedly the source for the Laughlin quote is not sterling, so I understand your objection there (I'm not THAT attached to it). But the Works film contains extensive interviews with Laughlin and, of course, lots of photographs, as well as interviews with Ellen Harman, Luria Castell and others. In writing the Red Dog material, nearly every line could have been supported by information in the film, yet it didn't seem appropriate to keep repeating the source ad infinitum. So, when possible, I brought in other articles as supportive sources. Don't see the problem with that. Founders4 21:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
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There is overwhelming reference that the GA version of this article deficient in the fact that it has the wrong name and totally ignores the thing that has that name. Please do not revert back to the GA version. Please do join in in fixing it and bring to everyone’s attention reliably sourced material that a better article (or set of articles) can be built on. Halfblue 12:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Not sure why you are saying this is fixed by the DAB page. There currently is not a "Mikly Way" (that band of light) article to link. "If you can find good reliable sources that expound on "Milky Way" vs. "Milky Way Galaxy" beyond a short dictionary definition, then you will be entirely justified in creating a new article." Two sources are quoted above that do this. They point to what we may have to do for an Encyclopedia. "the Milky Way is essentially the Milky Way Galaxy" -- that gets into " Wikipedia is not a textbook. "The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to teach subject matter". Telling someone that Milky Way is a Galaxy is teaching them (it is also POV). Encyclopedias describe thing, they do not teach scientific dogma. We do have two things to describe here, they do need to be independant and interlinked in some way. There are not the same thing by Wikipedia standards. Halfblue 14:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Please note: I will be off in the real world for 24hrs. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Please also note: The questions you are bringing up have been discussed on the Talk:Milky Way page (I know--- its a big long mess). You may want to read through the page and respond to comments already brought up instated of re-hashing them. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I saw you comment on RFC and RFM. You may want to propose it at Talk:Milky Way for all involved. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
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I don't have any interviews about "spacemusic" because my colleagues and I don't use the term on our show, as its merely a synonym for certain types of beatless ambient - as the weight of references cited in the article demonstrate. That's the whole point of the discussion that's been going on for the past 18 months. -- Gene_poole 13:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
As I see it the main issue preventing any resolution to the ongoing problems of defining ambient music across various WP articles is simple; Milo, and to a slightly less strange (but equally obtuse) extent, Parsifal, insist on viewing and arguing about each citation in isolation of all the others. The purpose of quoting multiple sources is to build up a picture of what the current body of general opinion about a particular subject actually is - not to provide a truckload of words that individual editors can selectively cherry-pick to make it seem like it is their POV is supported by third party sources. If you look at what the sources in this case show, when taken as a body of representative opinion, it is blindingly obvious that spacemusic and beatless ambient are considered by most people whose opinions matter, to be largely synonymous terms. They might not actually say that explicitly, and they might even sometimes use words that when taken out of context might seem to show support for an opposing position - and of course there are always exceptions here and there which prove the rule (such as Sun Ra) - but when taken together with the opinions and statements of other commentators it is plain that they're all talking about the same thing. It is our responsibility as WP editors to ensure article content both reflects that body of current opinion, and notes any historical discrepancies or divergences from that opinion in an NPOV manner. -- Gene_poole 02:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Looking forward to your reply on my talk page.
-- Mig77 (t) 09:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Not that knowledgeable, however. I may be able to cut through the inconsistency by thinking laterally a bit. "People have a tendency to inconsistency". I know that is an untidy thing to admit but it just maybe that there is no clear answer and Dick is internally inconsistent in the things he said, or changed his view over time. Also things said by others in the family may not represent the best recollection of his views. Life just doesn't come in nice parcels. I think a bit more research could be in order. But I personally would say that the inconsistencies should be reflected in the articles. Also from what I read of the quotes it is worth a "very" careful reading to make sure the clear meaning is what we think it is. Also careful writing so as to reflect the inherent complexity is needed. I know that doesn't help too much, but that is my two pennyworth. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 10:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You'll never guess who I got an email from, completely out of the blue. Says he's still around, too... Trust everything is good with you my friend. Sarah 10:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Viri, check this out. I guess that explains his recent strange emails. :-/ Sarah 18:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks V. I will keep an eye out for your email. Cheers, Sarah 19:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, I got it no probs. I'm glad you used the "email this user" feature because I meant to tell you that my email address has changed since you last emailed me. I shall reply a bit later. Cheers, Sarah 20:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Reference tags -- Philip Baird Shearer 23:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks :) I will try to help if I can Jenny Len☤ 14:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Jenny
Len☤ has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Mahalo nui loa for your comments! Jenny Len☤ 19:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
It could be. I haven't noticed him around recently, but he's good at staying ou of sight. The last time I saw him he was causing problems at Cracker (pejorative) back in June. I guess that's too recent to count him out. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
No violation occurred. — Viriditas | Talk 02:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Diffs: [3] [4] [5] – — madman bum and angel 02:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
“ | Editors may still be blocked even if they have not made more than three reverts in any given 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive. This particularly applies to editors who persistently make three reverts each day, or three reverts on each of a group of pages, in an apparent effort to game the system. Many administrators give less leniency to users who have been blocked before, and may block such users for any disruptive edit warring, even if they do not exceed three reverts on a page in 24 hours. | ” |
Your behaviour was clearly disruptive, and you have been blocked in the past for violation of WP:3RR. — madman bum and angel 03:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Per discussion with fellow administrators, I have reduced your block to 31 hours. Please understand, however, that the existence of consensus still does not allow you to edit war. It does entitle you to seek administrative action against the editors editing against consensus. Cheers! — madman bum and angel 03:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I see no violation by Viriditas justifying a block. What happened here??!! I completely protest this gross misjustice blocking a tenured long-time editor for no violation at all. -- MPerel 06:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I recall that you had some input in regard to the categorization of disaster movies vs. disaster films. There is a similar discussion going on about categorizing road movies as road films instead. Discussion is here; thought you might like to weigh in. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Response to you comment at Talk:Jazirat at-Tair. — AjaxSmack 05:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas, it wasn't me that took out the Geffen/Ono reference - I have only worked on photos for the last 200 edits. No problem - keep up the good work on John. -- andreasegde 15:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
The September 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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You'll be sorely missed while you're gone, hopefully it won't be too long, we need you! Hey, impressive work btw on your article Jabal al-Tair island which I saw today on the main page "In the News". And yesterday I noted yet *another* of your articles on the main page "In the News" Kenji Nagai that you rescued from speedy deletion and developed and collaborated on with others. And I'm not the only one who notices all the amazing work you do. You're one of our strongest, most prolific editors and I look forward to your return and the opportunity to collaborate with you more. : ) Best, -- MPerel 04:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Aloha Viriditas, I know you're on break but JK and I could use your help on something. Our discussion on Talk:Republic of Hawaii has ramped up and reached an impasse re: whether or not TTS's book is a vanity publication (and thus not a reliable source under Wikipedia guidelines). The discussion isn't too long (although now we're starting to repeat ourselves) so shouldn't take long to peruse. Anyhow, your weigh in on this would be most useful. Thanks in advance and cheers, Arjuna 10:02, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
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The Invisible Barnstar | |
Thank you for volunteering your work and assistance on Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles, referencing and generally cleaning up articles that have needed attention for a long time. Your good work goes unseen unless someone disagrees ;) Jeepday ( talk) 15:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC) |
Hey there, I saw you mention that you'd helped set up the WP:FILMS watchlist. Would you assist in setting up a watchlist for WP:JUDAISM? -- MPerel 04:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
The October 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 09:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas; You've said a few times that there are many, many sources for criticism of veganism. I've asked you to provide them once or twice, but we've gotten bogged down with discussing the details of the Davis/Matheny paragraphs. Would it be possible for you to compile some of these and present them on Talk:Veganism, or give me some links/sources so I can track them down myself? I am interested in expanding the criticism in the article, but as I've said before, I've found it difficult to find any sort of reliable source that could be presented in that way. Kellen T 12:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I know you've been busy, but perhaps you don't recall why The Ambient Century was added to space music. It certainly wasn't added to reference the term "space music". It was added to "further reading" based on the comments made (presumably by Stephen Hill) on the HoS website, where the author claimed that the "best general treatment of the subject" is The Ambient Century. [6] "The subject" includes many of the artists discussed in the history section of the space music article. I can't see any good reason to remove it from the article. — Viriditas | Talk 11:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas, I'll ignore Gene_poole's routinely antagonistic comment.
You're right, I didn't recall why it was added or that it was mentioned in that essay. I hadn't read the book previously, and recently when I did read it, I saw that it does not mention the term "space music" even once in its 482 pages or its 10 page 3-column-per-page tiny-type index. So I thought it appropriate to remove it because it does not address the topic of the article.
But when I removed it, I had not realized that it was listed in that HoS website essay. That gives it some support for inclusion, though it's still not directly on topic and therefore somewhat iffy. A better use for the reference would probably be to use it as inline footnotes for some of the artists discussed in the article.
Gene_poole has already reverted the removal. I'll leave it there for now, pending your reply on this. -- Parsifal Hello 10:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Template:Sustainability and Energy Development has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.
The admin Alkivar has unilaterally removed non-free images from Children of Men and Fight Club (film) with no attempt at discussion. The non-free images had fair use rationales attached, and the admin just decided of his own accord that the rationales were not sufficient. I've brought up the issue at WikiProject Films and am considering filing an incident report regarding his conduct, which is reminiscent of a similar brusque admin at 300 (film). — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
FYI I've removed the section on Pythagorean music theory from space music. There are no published sources anywhere which have ever suggested a link between Pythagorean music theory and space music. This is simply the most blatant example yet of Parsifal attempting to add his own unsubstantiated original research theories to WP. -- Gene_poole 03:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Did you see the latest lot of love letters the bobsie twins are writing to each other? What an amazing co-incidence that they just happen to both be busy at exactly the same time! -- Gene_poole 08:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
What are your thoughts on this paragraph? Personally I think it's highly problemmatic from both a self-referential content perspective, and as an example of appallingly badly written, mangled English prose:
Six referenced commentators do not use the term interchangeably with ambient music, one is ambiguous, and two do so. Eight referenced commentators use the term space music as a subgenre of new age music (separate from ambient music) and do not use it interchangeably, one is ambiguous, three use space music interchangeably with new age music, and four consider space music and new age music completely unrelated. Two referenced commentators refer to space music as a sub-genre of electronic rock.
I think it would be simpler and more accurate to say:
The majority of contemporary commentators note a close relationship between space music and new age music, ambient music, or (less commonly), electronic rock, to the extent that the term is often used interchangeably with these genres. -- Gene_poole 10:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the link, and the compliment. I do think UT 678 is one of my better 2007 efforts.
Concerning Empire of Atlantium, feel free to reconfigure as you see fit. Historically there was a lot of angst generated there by 2 editors (using multiple sockpuppets) who have since been permanently banned. There are still some weasel-words and odd turns of phrase remaining in the article from attempts to compromise with those editors that could benefit from cleanup and referencing now. -- Gene_poole 12:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Not sure why I deleted it, that was April and it's my policy to not recall any actions taken in Aprils. I might have removed the prod from a different article but ment to remove it from that one. Which probably means ther is a non-notable article that I should have deleted. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Aloha, I would be happy to give a page cite on the kahuna page. To which citation are you referring? Makana Chai 00:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just completed a long-overdue major rewrite of the above article. The bobsies have already tried to rollback some of my changes there, replacing clear, unambiguous prose with mangled, circumlocutory phraseology for no apparent reason. You might want to keep an eye on things there. -- Gene_poole 09:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Apologies - I completely missed the fact those comments on Steel359's talk page were timestamped out of order in their original configuration. I've attempted to restore some semblance of order to things there, but it still looks pretty messy. -- Gene_poole 13:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Don't know if you've seen this, but as one of the main contributors to Wikipedia:WikiProject Hawaii, you might want to comment on the current proposal in the Wikiproject Hawaii MOS [7]; User:Erudy has posted a "modest proposal" to completely eliminate all diacritics from Hawaiian articles, except for a citation at the beginning. Right now there are only 4 comments, evenly split. As far as I can tell all of those supporting it haven't contributed to Hawaiian articles, so it would be disturbing if they claimed victory when hardly anyone who is actually from or connected to Hawaiʻi has put in their voice. KarlM 11:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be misreading WP:LEAD. It does not say that there should be repetition in an article. The way the "Overview" section currently reads is just plan poor writing. I would suggest that you try to work with me on this, rather than reverting my edits. Sunray 07:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the assistance with the Peace Pilgrim wiki entry. I am a Friends of Peace Pilgrim board member. The information in the Marta Daniels bio this is accurate. We will be publishing a revised version in the near future and adding it to the other items we offer freely on the Peace Pilgrim website this. I'm relatively new to Wiki editing and am slowly picking up additional skills. Not much time to delve deeply in the Wiki world at the moment. My aim is to keep the info about Peace Pilgrim relatively accurate. It seems that a number of "contributers" simply want to impose their own agendas on the Peace Pilgrim page. Please feel free to reference any pages of the Peace Pilgrim website. All the quotes can be referenced back to the book - Peace Pilgrim: Her Life and Work in Her Own Words. -- Benick 13:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought about adding a photo myself but have not yet taken the time to learn how to do it. The photo that is used most often is that of Peace Pilgrim walking down the road. It is on the cover of our book and has been used in many publications. Friends of Peace Pilgrim owns the rights to this image but we also like to credit the photographer James B. Burton. The photo first appeared in a local Kansas newspaper in about 1980 when Peace walked through the area. There is a small version of the image on upper left of the main page of the Peace Pilgrim website this. I can supply this image in various pixel sizes and resolutions if necessary. The credit could read - photograph by James B. Burton, courtesy Friends of Peace Pilgrim. -- Benick 00:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The October 2007 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 21:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The November 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 15:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Hey, I just noticed you are responsible for Starwood Festival. Nice work. — Viriditas | Talk 01:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
You wrote: BTW, do you have a date for the lecture/workshop McKenna gave at Starwood? I wanted to cite it in his bio. —Viriditas | Talk 10:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
TM: I was at this scene in western New York called Starwood, which bills itself as a pagan festival: five days of nudity, cannabis, this and that. On the final night, they piled up dead apple trees two hundred feet high and set them on fire, and six thousand people tore their clothes off and danced all night long around this thing, raising a cloud of red dust in the air a thousand feet high. This was my first trip to the “Midwest.” It was so far west in New York that I flew to Cleveland to get there.
My research has turned up something very very interesting; I've emailed you the relevant details. -- Gene_poole 05:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Viriditas, you always make my day! Thank you for your sweetness and for making the editing environment such a pleasure : ) -- MPerel 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading
Image:Coltrane Giant Steps.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a
claim of fair use. However, it is currently
orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed.
You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see
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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the " my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 18:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the lovely barnstar. :-D But we still have a long way to go until we can get it featured... -- BorgQueen 01:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
List of countries with organic agriculture regulation, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that List of countries with organic agriculture regulation satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of countries with organic agriculture regulation and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of List of countries with organic agriculture regulation during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. ^ demon [omg plz] 02:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 02:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
sorry bro ... u were right ! -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 23:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
and have loved the musical ... can u please help me and get acquainted with the talk system and PM syatem of WIKIPEDIA ... and give me pointers in editing articles on wiki .. i am new here and love to add and work for its betterment ! :) eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thanks -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
is it correctly placed .... i mean the adopt me ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
but the image was uploaded by me ... does it make any difference ... amybe i can upload my own with a different license ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! {{tl|adoptme}} 16:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
i mean how do i add such free images of my own creation to WIKI ? i mean what license do i use ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Per your note at RfA - I did add one to my talk page. I've added probably dozens of these to different projects, etc. but never thought to add one to my own talk page. D'oh! -- SkierRMH ( talk) 22:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
That's great! Sure, it will be much easier if you could help me. I made a new subsection under reference section, so you could add your references there when you write, and I will convert them to {{cite book}} format afterward. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 08:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for correction. Please give me some time to digest the new info. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 02:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thanks for fixing the review of Om Shanti Om ! eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! ( talk) 20:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of us are planning to reorganize the article Jainism, and perhaps some of the related articles.
Since you have made significant contributions to the article in the past, it would be great if you can give us some suggestions at the talk page Talk:Jainism. Thanks.
-- Malaiya ( talk) 20:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that popular culture thing was a blooper. Check it again; I quickly changed it to “Terraforming of fictional planets in film.” Sources would be good, and also I think that both the sections should be placed in tables like the rest of the article. What do you think? -- S.dedalus ( talk) 06:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Viriditas,
I was hoping you might help me on something. I have just completed a long effort to satisfy an editor about the controversy section of the Church and School of Wicca article. We have come to an agreement about it, due to my documentation that much of the information is neither factual nor verified, and more is inappropriate and/or uncyclopedic. Now a new editor has come who has never contributed anything else, just for the sole purpose of returning all the information, and has accused me of being an associate of the founder of the event, even though I have stated (and it is the truth) that I am in no way connected to the Church and School and only know the founder because he spoke at Starwood years ago.
I am afraid this will become another battle, and I very much doubt the motives of this one-purpose editor with no talk page or other contributions. Could you review the issue on the discussion page and advise me? Thanks in advance. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Postive UT feedback much appreciated. I've played quite a bit of Brennan before - I'm currently working my way through a pile of his albums I only obtained for the first time earlier this year. Burmer has less albums available (and is now dead, so there are no more on the way). I find his sweeter sound less to my taste. He gets an airing every now and then. Haven't forgotten about the Atlantium stuff - just snowed under like you wouldn't believe atm. You might want to look at Principality of Sealand in the interim. 5 years ago we were fighting to prevent the article being deleted because it was about a micronation. Now we're facing a budding edit war because one person says its not a micronation (despite the fact that's what the people running it call it) but a real country. -- Gene_poole ( talk) 10:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The original article was tagged by User:Betacommand for WP:CSD#G11. I've taken a look at the article in the state it was in when I deleted it and to be honest I think my G11 was wrong, and probably influenced by the tag. It did however look a bit spammy due to the external links (often a bit of a giveaway) adn the tone was promotional. At the time it also didn't really assert notability either. Looking at the article now it all seems fine. On balance I probably should have declined speedy and taken it to AFD instead when it was originally created. Just curious as to why you asked? Any further info just let mew know! Pedro : Chat 11:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
im sorry i don't think he is using that name anymore because his user page hasn't been used for months and his Distastefull coments were made a couple of weeks ago and somebody would have contaced him and he would have said something this gives me the hunch that he is no longer useing that talk page so i had to go were he was agureing about last. ANOMALY-117 23:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
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02:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Every section heading should be a potential article name? Not really... The difference between a section heading and an article name is that the former belongs in the context of a particular article. My FA Durian has "Uses" section, and an article named "Uses" won't make much sense.
Having said that, I know the section heading "Pre-contact Hawaii (AD 300-1778)" is not exactly an ideal one. Nor is "Ancient Hawaii", since it would be categorizing the 17th century as a segment in ancient times. Isn't "ancient history" about the period from the beginning of history until the Early Middle Ages (meaning approx. 5th century)? You are welcome to suggest better alternatives for the section heading. How about "Polynesian Hawaii"? -- BorgQueen 13:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
There used to be an external link on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil leading to a article on the Health Benefits of Olive Oil. I was not the one to originally add the link, but I see that it is gone, and when I attempted to re-add it, it is quickly removed by a moderator.
This was the original link http://www.whatsfordinner.net/article-olive-oil.html
This is the new one http://www.foodasfood.com/health-benefits-of-olive-oil/
The first article is more informative than the 2nd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluetiddlywinks ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The December 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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First official still from Choke (film). :) — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of your participation in discussions relating to the "PSTS" model in the No original research article, I am notifying you that a request for arbitration has been opened here. I invite you to provide a statement encouraging the Arbcom to review this matter, so that we can settle it once and for all. COGDEN 00:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
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Dear Viriditas,
As a previous editor of the Jeff Rosenbaum article, and having shown an interest in Starwood Festival and WinterStar Symposium, I was hoping you could look into a situation concerning them. An editor (Kathryn NicDhàna) who I have had conflict with in the past has begun peppering the articles with "citation needed" tags, and reverting any input I have, including citations to satisfy those tags. Another, Mattisse, who started much of my previous woes via multiple sock-puppets, has begun doing the same on articles I created or regularly edit (like M. Macha Nightmare and Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart). I am afraid this is an attempt to sucker me into "aggressive editing" and get me in trouble, when all I have done is reorganized some material under more appropriate headings and provide one new citation. Even a link from an article in a bibliography to an online site for that article has been deleted. You can see my arguments on the talk pages; the editor in question is NOT discussing these things with me, just posting scolds in the edit summaries. I don't consider the edits controversial, and most are public knowledge.
I'm not sure what to do about some of this stuff. How do you provide a citation for a college degree, for instance? Kathryn challenges the ACE website which has a bio of Jeff Rosenbaum as a speaker, claiming that it's not a "3rd party source", even though I am not the webmaster of that site nor have ever inputted anything to it, and this fact is not controversial. However, the CWRU Alumni records and the Registrar's files for 1978 are not available to the public nor posted on a website. Also, I know there are no rules forbidding me to add information with proper citations, like the Mid-West Materials info, to the article, nor forbidding me to reorganize the material, but Kathryn insists on acting like there are such rules, and simply wholesale reverting whatever I do.
She suggests that others can add the material. This is obviously not about the data, but a problem she has with me about such issues as POV and COI, issues that were put to bed long ago (I thought) with the assurance that I was free to edit as long as I did not do so "aggressivly" or edit war. Might you be able to look into these edits and judge for yourself, and perhaps act and/or advise? Rosencomet ( talk) 00:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for uploading Image:Clinton Buddy 120597.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.
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Actually, all the books are there so far. If they insist that the articles published in The Free Press are inappropriate, I won't fight over it. I don't understand why everything has been taken out of the "reference" section and renamed other things under "Miscellanea". The books all refer to the subject and help support both the notability of the subject and the facts in the text, like "He serves as Executive Director of the organization, which has organized the Starwood Festival each year since 1981 and the WinterStar Symposium each winter since 1984."
If the article is left alone at this point, I'd be OK with it, except for the unnecessary "Miscellanea" heading. But I expect more cutting. These folks have a habit of insisting I document things in ways I've never seen others do, like the "notability" of the articles, or expecting the appearances on radio and TV to have "3rd-party citations", as if there needs to be a newspaper reporter who wrote an article about the radio interview. If they doubt the appearance on Jeff & Christie, they can contact the TV station; otherwise, why don't they assume good faith? I do NOT have a record of adding false information to articles.
What worries me more, is that Kathryn, Pigman and Mattisse, who have caused me a great deal of trouble and edit warred with me for months (while I NEVER touched a single article they wrote or regularly edited in a way they disagreed with, or pretty much at all), have in the past few days deleted chunks from WinterStar Symposium, tagged seven articles I've written, marked one for deletion, and helped delete another. I feel like they are targetting my work, and will do more of the same soon. I also firmly believe that the list on the WinterStar article is NOT a "laundry list" (and I HAVE read that guideline), and really contributes to the article and says a lot about the event, and is very much in keeping with similar lists in articles about other events, as I've said and documented on the talk page extensively. Rosencomet ( talk) 04:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
In a word, WOW! Kudos for the great material on Matthew. And many thanks. Rosencomet ( talk) 05:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I am going to go to bed and try to wind down. It would be lovely if we could solve the problem that all the other warring editors have failed for months to solve. I'm certain a solution is possible, so perhaps simply having people who don't feel hostile toward one another work on it will turn something up. My (perhaps naive) take is that the core problem on this policy has been that peer-reviewed literature cites are challenged inappropriately, either because the PSTS distinction is too complex and discipline-variant, and it should be ditched (my very favorite choice) or because the use language needs to written more clearly (what I'm trying to work with on WP:EVALUTE). I believe that every editor wants to make it very clear that syntheses are original research and are verboten, and that we recognize that editors may have a particular tendency to string together cited material to create new syntheses. That needs to be clearly prohibited. But it needs to be done so in a way that does not cause editors to think that secondary source cites are required when a primary source cite is actually completely appropriate. Good night, and good luck. -- Lquilter ( talk) 07:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey Viriditas, I am working up Sirius to FAC and there's some cool polynesian stuff it would be great to expand. You'll see what's there if you scan down the page. Any folklore/mythology input much appreciated. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
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help)Regarding your question yesterday on the NOR talk page. I know my answer seemed flippant. At first I was had a nice long explanation about several things involved in this (from my biased perspective), like ownership, cliqueishness, etc. SlimVirgin is a major contributor to this policy and seems to be having some serious ownership issues with the policy, like no changes can be made to the policy without her explicit (from those outside her clique) or implicit (from those inside her clique) approval. Therefore, if someone outside her clique makes a change, either she or one of those in the clique usually revert and claim no consensus, even after weeks of discussions and compromise by those proposing the change and those 'around' her clique (though not neccessarily in it) who see areas for improvement or refinement. On the other hand, she and her clique seem to be able to make changes whenever they want without any discussions or announcements. I actually had quite a bit more to say as well. So, as you can see, before I clicked the 'Save' button, I decided that stating this there wouldn't really improve anything, and instead just aggravate the situation after we finally look like we might finally be making some progress on issues we have been suggesting for months now, but since 'they' propose it this time its possible, where as when 'we' proposed, it was just absurd and a nefarious attempt to derail policy. Get the idea now on why my answer seemed so flippant? I'm sorry for that, but it was the most PC way I thought I could say anything without aggravating the situation. Since SV has such serious ownership issues, this way since she's the one proposing changes (extremely similar to what we first suggested about 3 months ago), she can go ahead and take the credit for a good idea (hopefully), and try to continue to impress Jimbo and others about her great ideas and flexibility, and tireless dedication to the Wiki project, yada, yada, yada. I don't really care as long as progress is getting made. I'm still trying to think of a PC way of defending Vassyana and blasting SV, but my mind is still drawing a blank. wbfergus Talk 13:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas, I just wanted to clarify my involvement in the AfD nomination of Grey School of Wizadry in light of your comments here [8]. I am by no means involved in any harassment and did not know who Rosencomet was before I nominated the article he wrote for deletion (nor would it have made any difference if I knew the editor). I seem to have stumbled upon a controversial editor and I by no means wish to add to the controversy. The article had been deleted previously, but I nominated it for deletion (rather than tagging it under CSD#G4) to give the user a chance to respond and/or tidy up the article. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. I would also respectfully request that you be careful when responding to others' comments in the future, as your reply to my notice could have been inferred to be suggesting impropriety on my part where there was none. :-) Happy Editing and Cheers! -- Simple Paradox 19:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I urge you to read the Q & A of Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Salix alba, currently open, for another view of the Starwood situation. He uses some of his interventions into the Starwood situation as reasons why he should be elected:
I was involved in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Starwood and related RfC's, checkuser requests, etc. This was indeed the ugly side of wikipedia which lots of accusations of sockpuppetry, harassment. A prime example of a ForestFire a small dispute spreading out of control. A lot of people left wikiedia as a result. One of the most worrying parts was that a users past mistakes can hang over them and be used as a Scarlet Letter. Another problem was in how long the dispute took to resolve, nearly a year. Swifter action from someone with sufficient authority could have averted a lot of problems. My role in the case was somewhat less than successful attempt to resolve the conflict. I tried to get a mediation cable case going, wrote a well supported outside view on an RfC. In the end the RfA managed to more or less managed to preserve the community.
One of the issues he addresses is the use of a Scarlet Letter. This is a direct reference to me and the continuous allegations that I was using sock puppets by Rosencoment and his supporters: User:999, Hanuman Das, and User:Ekajati who, ironically, turned out to be sock puppets themselves, along with User:Tunnels of Set, User:Frater Xyzzy. User:Khabs and others. Recently User:Essittam (who has been doing a lot of Starwood editing recently) has been added to the sock puppet list: Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ekajati. Salix alba started a mediation on the issue, but while that was opening Hanuman Das filed an Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Mattisse, the result of which should have put an end to the matter regarding my sock puppets. However, the allegations continued so during the Starwood Arbitration, an arbitrator recused himself and chased down the sock puppets supporting Rosencomet. Now Rosencomet is continuing this practice of using allegations as a Scarlet Letter. I urge you to try to get him to discontinue personal attacks on editors and concentrate on the content of articles so that action against him will not be necessary. Regards, Mattisse 21:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
No, that image was used on Spider-Man 3, and it's bounced around since. I looked at where they were now and grunted -- didn't want to expend the effort to fix so that they could fit or remove them only to have them restored. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 15:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was thinking of helping out there. Since getting the admin mop and bucket, I've been spending too high a percentage of my WP time doing janitorial duties rather than constructive editing. If I don't start doing regular work, I will undoubtedly burn out. We'll see whether I actually do so. BTW, I've withdrawn my AfD nom for Matthew Abelson. Cheers, Pigman ☿ 18:54, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas, I think you'll find that I haven't been trying to redefine anything the last couple of days. Since you added in all the tables & references I've simply been trying to digest & think through the language in those. I took out the one phrase from the sandbox guideline because I felt it was unambiguously placed in PS but I didn't move it anywhere. I wish you wouldn't leave the discussion, because you have a lot to contribute, but I also wish you would accept that people may be arguing not out of bad faith or simply to be argumentative, but because we have different frames of reference and what may seem clear to one person may be ambiguous to another. If you need to stay away, though, I understand. Cheers, Lquilter ( talk) 17:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
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Your change of the title has great merit and yet alters the significance of the content of the article as it stands. Could you please give some reason for your decision to change the title please and on the article's
talk page Do you intend to add more content or delete parts o fit to better reflect the new title?--
Ziji
(
talk
email)
01:30, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
If you could respond to a query regarding your move of this article, I'd very much appreciate it. Best wishes, Larry Rosenfeld ( talk) 15:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
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14:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
i don't know who muncie is or what he/she has written -- i am going on what i remember from that time. i initially changed the sentence to include "and the early 1970s" but someone took that out so i decided to expand the sentence
i'm not too pushed about this but i do think "early 1970s" should stay in since the same situation that was going on in the late 1960s continued well into the 1970s, especially after kent state
thanks, trish
rissa at panix dot com
(i realize i should log in before i make editing changes but usually i'm just correcting spelling or adding links. i will in the future, however) Risssa 05:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
In much of the "Hippie" article, you seem to tolerate appropriate summarization. Then, as with your recent objections to the Hunter/Laughlin issue, you label it synthesis, which I don't think it is.
Admittedly the source for the Laughlin quote is not sterling, so I understand your objection there (I'm not THAT attached to it). But the Works film contains extensive interviews with Laughlin and, of course, lots of photographs, as well as interviews with Ellen Harman, Luria Castell and others. In writing the Red Dog material, nearly every line could have been supported by information in the film, yet it didn't seem appropriate to keep repeating the source ad infinitum. So, when possible, I brought in other articles as supportive sources. Don't see the problem with that. Founders4 21:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The September 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 09:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
There is overwhelming reference that the GA version of this article deficient in the fact that it has the wrong name and totally ignores the thing that has that name. Please do not revert back to the GA version. Please do join in in fixing it and bring to everyone’s attention reliably sourced material that a better article (or set of articles) can be built on. Halfblue 12:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Not sure why you are saying this is fixed by the DAB page. There currently is not a "Mikly Way" (that band of light) article to link. "If you can find good reliable sources that expound on "Milky Way" vs. "Milky Way Galaxy" beyond a short dictionary definition, then you will be entirely justified in creating a new article." Two sources are quoted above that do this. They point to what we may have to do for an Encyclopedia. "the Milky Way is essentially the Milky Way Galaxy" -- that gets into " Wikipedia is not a textbook. "The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to teach subject matter". Telling someone that Milky Way is a Galaxy is teaching them (it is also POV). Encyclopedias describe thing, they do not teach scientific dogma. We do have two things to describe here, they do need to be independant and interlinked in some way. There are not the same thing by Wikipedia standards. Halfblue 14:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Please note: I will be off in the real world for 24hrs. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Please also note: The questions you are bringing up have been discussed on the Talk:Milky Way page (I know--- its a big long mess). You may want to read through the page and respond to comments already brought up instated of re-hashing them. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I saw you comment on RFC and RFM. You may want to propose it at Talk:Milky Way for all involved. Halfblue 14:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
An automatic notification by BrownBot 01:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't have any interviews about "spacemusic" because my colleagues and I don't use the term on our show, as its merely a synonym for certain types of beatless ambient - as the weight of references cited in the article demonstrate. That's the whole point of the discussion that's been going on for the past 18 months. -- Gene_poole 13:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
As I see it the main issue preventing any resolution to the ongoing problems of defining ambient music across various WP articles is simple; Milo, and to a slightly less strange (but equally obtuse) extent, Parsifal, insist on viewing and arguing about each citation in isolation of all the others. The purpose of quoting multiple sources is to build up a picture of what the current body of general opinion about a particular subject actually is - not to provide a truckload of words that individual editors can selectively cherry-pick to make it seem like it is their POV is supported by third party sources. If you look at what the sources in this case show, when taken as a body of representative opinion, it is blindingly obvious that spacemusic and beatless ambient are considered by most people whose opinions matter, to be largely synonymous terms. They might not actually say that explicitly, and they might even sometimes use words that when taken out of context might seem to show support for an opposing position - and of course there are always exceptions here and there which prove the rule (such as Sun Ra) - but when taken together with the opinions and statements of other commentators it is plain that they're all talking about the same thing. It is our responsibility as WP editors to ensure article content both reflects that body of current opinion, and notes any historical discrepancies or divergences from that opinion in an NPOV manner. -- Gene_poole 02:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Looking forward to your reply on my talk page.
-- Mig77 (t) 09:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Not that knowledgeable, however. I may be able to cut through the inconsistency by thinking laterally a bit. "People have a tendency to inconsistency". I know that is an untidy thing to admit but it just maybe that there is no clear answer and Dick is internally inconsistent in the things he said, or changed his view over time. Also things said by others in the family may not represent the best recollection of his views. Life just doesn't come in nice parcels. I think a bit more research could be in order. But I personally would say that the inconsistencies should be reflected in the articles. Also from what I read of the quotes it is worth a "very" careful reading to make sure the clear meaning is what we think it is. Also careful writing so as to reflect the inherent complexity is needed. I know that doesn't help too much, but that is my two pennyworth. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/ (Desk) 10:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You'll never guess who I got an email from, completely out of the blue. Says he's still around, too... Trust everything is good with you my friend. Sarah 10:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Viri, check this out. I guess that explains his recent strange emails. :-/ Sarah 18:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks V. I will keep an eye out for your email. Cheers, Sarah 19:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, I got it no probs. I'm glad you used the "email this user" feature because I meant to tell you that my email address has changed since you last emailed me. I shall reply a bit later. Cheers, Sarah 20:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Reference tags -- Philip Baird Shearer 23:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks :) I will try to help if I can Jenny Len☤ 14:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Jenny
Len☤ has smiled at you! Smiles promote
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Smile at others by adding {{
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Mahalo nui loa for your comments! Jenny Len☤ 19:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
It could be. I haven't noticed him around recently, but he's good at staying ou of sight. The last time I saw him he was causing problems at Cracker (pejorative) back in June. I guess that's too recent to count him out. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
No violation occurred. — Viriditas | Talk 02:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Decline reason:
Diffs: [3] [4] [5] – — madman bum and angel 02:57, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
“ | Editors may still be blocked even if they have not made more than three reverts in any given 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive. This particularly applies to editors who persistently make three reverts each day, or three reverts on each of a group of pages, in an apparent effort to game the system. Many administrators give less leniency to users who have been blocked before, and may block such users for any disruptive edit warring, even if they do not exceed three reverts on a page in 24 hours. | ” |
Your behaviour was clearly disruptive, and you have been blocked in the past for violation of WP:3RR. — madman bum and angel 03:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Per discussion with fellow administrators, I have reduced your block to 31 hours. Please understand, however, that the existence of consensus still does not allow you to edit war. It does entitle you to seek administrative action against the editors editing against consensus. Cheers! — madman bum and angel 03:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I see no violation by Viriditas justifying a block. What happened here??!! I completely protest this gross misjustice blocking a tenured long-time editor for no violation at all. -- MPerel 06:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I recall that you had some input in regard to the categorization of disaster movies vs. disaster films. There is a similar discussion going on about categorizing road movies as road films instead. Discussion is here; thought you might like to weigh in. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Response to you comment at Talk:Jazirat at-Tair. — AjaxSmack 05:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas, it wasn't me that took out the Geffen/Ono reference - I have only worked on photos for the last 200 edits. No problem - keep up the good work on John. -- andreasegde 15:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
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You'll be sorely missed while you're gone, hopefully it won't be too long, we need you! Hey, impressive work btw on your article Jabal al-Tair island which I saw today on the main page "In the News". And yesterday I noted yet *another* of your articles on the main page "In the News" Kenji Nagai that you rescued from speedy deletion and developed and collaborated on with others. And I'm not the only one who notices all the amazing work you do. You're one of our strongest, most prolific editors and I look forward to your return and the opportunity to collaborate with you more. : ) Best, -- MPerel 04:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Aloha Viriditas, I know you're on break but JK and I could use your help on something. Our discussion on Talk:Republic of Hawaii has ramped up and reached an impasse re: whether or not TTS's book is a vanity publication (and thus not a reliable source under Wikipedia guidelines). The discussion isn't too long (although now we're starting to repeat ourselves) so shouldn't take long to peruse. Anyhow, your weigh in on this would be most useful. Thanks in advance and cheers, Arjuna 10:02, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
![]() |
The Invisible Barnstar | |
Thank you for volunteering your work and assistance on Wikipedia:Unreferenced articles, referencing and generally cleaning up articles that have needed attention for a long time. Your good work goes unseen unless someone disagrees ;) Jeepday ( talk) 15:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC) |
Hey there, I saw you mention that you'd helped set up the WP:FILMS watchlist. Would you assist in setting up a watchlist for WP:JUDAISM? -- MPerel 04:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
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This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 09:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas; You've said a few times that there are many, many sources for criticism of veganism. I've asked you to provide them once or twice, but we've gotten bogged down with discussing the details of the Davis/Matheny paragraphs. Would it be possible for you to compile some of these and present them on Talk:Veganism, or give me some links/sources so I can track them down myself? I am interested in expanding the criticism in the article, but as I've said before, I've found it difficult to find any sort of reliable source that could be presented in that way. Kellen T 12:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I know you've been busy, but perhaps you don't recall why The Ambient Century was added to space music. It certainly wasn't added to reference the term "space music". It was added to "further reading" based on the comments made (presumably by Stephen Hill) on the HoS website, where the author claimed that the "best general treatment of the subject" is The Ambient Century. [6] "The subject" includes many of the artists discussed in the history section of the space music article. I can't see any good reason to remove it from the article. — Viriditas | Talk 11:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas, I'll ignore Gene_poole's routinely antagonistic comment.
You're right, I didn't recall why it was added or that it was mentioned in that essay. I hadn't read the book previously, and recently when I did read it, I saw that it does not mention the term "space music" even once in its 482 pages or its 10 page 3-column-per-page tiny-type index. So I thought it appropriate to remove it because it does not address the topic of the article.
But when I removed it, I had not realized that it was listed in that HoS website essay. That gives it some support for inclusion, though it's still not directly on topic and therefore somewhat iffy. A better use for the reference would probably be to use it as inline footnotes for some of the artists discussed in the article.
Gene_poole has already reverted the removal. I'll leave it there for now, pending your reply on this. -- Parsifal Hello 10:34, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Template:Sustainability and Energy Development has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you.
The admin Alkivar has unilaterally removed non-free images from Children of Men and Fight Club (film) with no attempt at discussion. The non-free images had fair use rationales attached, and the admin just decided of his own accord that the rationales were not sufficient. I've brought up the issue at WikiProject Films and am considering filing an incident report regarding his conduct, which is reminiscent of a similar brusque admin at 300 (film). — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:46, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
FYI I've removed the section on Pythagorean music theory from space music. There are no published sources anywhere which have ever suggested a link between Pythagorean music theory and space music. This is simply the most blatant example yet of Parsifal attempting to add his own unsubstantiated original research theories to WP. -- Gene_poole 03:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Did you see the latest lot of love letters the bobsie twins are writing to each other? What an amazing co-incidence that they just happen to both be busy at exactly the same time! -- Gene_poole 08:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
What are your thoughts on this paragraph? Personally I think it's highly problemmatic from both a self-referential content perspective, and as an example of appallingly badly written, mangled English prose:
Six referenced commentators do not use the term interchangeably with ambient music, one is ambiguous, and two do so. Eight referenced commentators use the term space music as a subgenre of new age music (separate from ambient music) and do not use it interchangeably, one is ambiguous, three use space music interchangeably with new age music, and four consider space music and new age music completely unrelated. Two referenced commentators refer to space music as a sub-genre of electronic rock.
I think it would be simpler and more accurate to say:
The majority of contemporary commentators note a close relationship between space music and new age music, ambient music, or (less commonly), electronic rock, to the extent that the term is often used interchangeably with these genres. -- Gene_poole 10:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the link, and the compliment. I do think UT 678 is one of my better 2007 efforts.
Concerning Empire of Atlantium, feel free to reconfigure as you see fit. Historically there was a lot of angst generated there by 2 editors (using multiple sockpuppets) who have since been permanently banned. There are still some weasel-words and odd turns of phrase remaining in the article from attempts to compromise with those editors that could benefit from cleanup and referencing now. -- Gene_poole 12:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Not sure why I deleted it, that was April and it's my policy to not recall any actions taken in Aprils. I might have removed the prod from a different article but ment to remove it from that one. Which probably means ther is a non-notable article that I should have deleted. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 14:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Aloha, I would be happy to give a page cite on the kahuna page. To which citation are you referring? Makana Chai 00:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've just completed a long-overdue major rewrite of the above article. The bobsies have already tried to rollback some of my changes there, replacing clear, unambiguous prose with mangled, circumlocutory phraseology for no apparent reason. You might want to keep an eye on things there. -- Gene_poole 09:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Apologies - I completely missed the fact those comments on Steel359's talk page were timestamped out of order in their original configuration. I've attempted to restore some semblance of order to things there, but it still looks pretty messy. -- Gene_poole 13:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Don't know if you've seen this, but as one of the main contributors to Wikipedia:WikiProject Hawaii, you might want to comment on the current proposal in the Wikiproject Hawaii MOS [7]; User:Erudy has posted a "modest proposal" to completely eliminate all diacritics from Hawaiian articles, except for a citation at the beginning. Right now there are only 4 comments, evenly split. As far as I can tell all of those supporting it haven't contributed to Hawaiian articles, so it would be disturbing if they claimed victory when hardly anyone who is actually from or connected to Hawaiʻi has put in their voice. KarlM 11:47, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be misreading WP:LEAD. It does not say that there should be repetition in an article. The way the "Overview" section currently reads is just plan poor writing. I would suggest that you try to work with me on this, rather than reverting my edits. Sunray 07:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the assistance with the Peace Pilgrim wiki entry. I am a Friends of Peace Pilgrim board member. The information in the Marta Daniels bio this is accurate. We will be publishing a revised version in the near future and adding it to the other items we offer freely on the Peace Pilgrim website this. I'm relatively new to Wiki editing and am slowly picking up additional skills. Not much time to delve deeply in the Wiki world at the moment. My aim is to keep the info about Peace Pilgrim relatively accurate. It seems that a number of "contributers" simply want to impose their own agendas on the Peace Pilgrim page. Please feel free to reference any pages of the Peace Pilgrim website. All the quotes can be referenced back to the book - Peace Pilgrim: Her Life and Work in Her Own Words. -- Benick 13:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought about adding a photo myself but have not yet taken the time to learn how to do it. The photo that is used most often is that of Peace Pilgrim walking down the road. It is on the cover of our book and has been used in many publications. Friends of Peace Pilgrim owns the rights to this image but we also like to credit the photographer James B. Burton. The photo first appeared in a local Kansas newspaper in about 1980 when Peace walked through the area. There is a small version of the image on upper left of the main page of the Peace Pilgrim website this. I can supply this image in various pixel sizes and resolutions if necessary. The credit could read - photograph by James B. Burton, courtesy Friends of Peace Pilgrim. -- Benick 00:59, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
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Hey, I just noticed you are responsible for Starwood Festival. Nice work. — Viriditas | Talk 01:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
You wrote: BTW, do you have a date for the lecture/workshop McKenna gave at Starwood? I wanted to cite it in his bio. —Viriditas | Talk 10:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
TM: I was at this scene in western New York called Starwood, which bills itself as a pagan festival: five days of nudity, cannabis, this and that. On the final night, they piled up dead apple trees two hundred feet high and set them on fire, and six thousand people tore their clothes off and danced all night long around this thing, raising a cloud of red dust in the air a thousand feet high. This was my first trip to the “Midwest.” It was so far west in New York that I flew to Cleveland to get there.
My research has turned up something very very interesting; I've emailed you the relevant details. -- Gene_poole 05:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Viriditas, you always make my day! Thank you for your sweetness and for making the editing environment such a pleasure : ) -- MPerel 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
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Thanks for the lovely barnstar. :-D But we still have a long way to go until we can get it featured... -- BorgQueen 01:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
List of countries with organic agriculture regulation, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that List of countries with organic agriculture regulation satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also " What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of countries with organic agriculture regulation and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of List of countries with organic agriculture regulation during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. ^ demon [omg plz] 02:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC) 02:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
sorry bro ... u were right ! -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 23:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
and have loved the musical ... can u please help me and get acquainted with the talk system and PM syatem of WIKIPEDIA ... and give me pointers in editing articles on wiki .. i am new here and love to add and work for its betterment ! :) eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
thanks -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:19, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
is it correctly placed .... i mean the adopt me ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:23, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
but the image was uploaded by me ... does it make any difference ... amybe i can upload my own with a different license ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! {{tl|adoptme}} 16:26, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
i mean how do i add such free images of my own creation to WIKI ? i mean what license do i use ? -- eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! 16:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Per your note at RfA - I did add one to my talk page. I've added probably dozens of these to different projects, etc. but never thought to add one to my own talk page. D'oh! -- SkierRMH ( talk) 22:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
That's great! Sure, it will be much easier if you could help me. I made a new subsection under reference section, so you could add your references there when you write, and I will convert them to {{cite book}} format afterward. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 08:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for correction. Please give me some time to digest the new info. -- BorgQueen ( talk) 02:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
thanks for fixing the review of Om Shanti Om ! eatpepsi @ Wiki Project ! ( talk) 20:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of us are planning to reorganize the article Jainism, and perhaps some of the related articles.
Since you have made significant contributions to the article in the past, it would be great if you can give us some suggestions at the talk page Talk:Jainism. Thanks.
-- Malaiya ( talk) 20:50, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that popular culture thing was a blooper. Check it again; I quickly changed it to “Terraforming of fictional planets in film.” Sources would be good, and also I think that both the sections should be placed in tables like the rest of the article. What do you think? -- S.dedalus ( talk) 06:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Viriditas,
I was hoping you might help me on something. I have just completed a long effort to satisfy an editor about the controversy section of the Church and School of Wicca article. We have come to an agreement about it, due to my documentation that much of the information is neither factual nor verified, and more is inappropriate and/or uncyclopedic. Now a new editor has come who has never contributed anything else, just for the sole purpose of returning all the information, and has accused me of being an associate of the founder of the event, even though I have stated (and it is the truth) that I am in no way connected to the Church and School and only know the founder because he spoke at Starwood years ago.
I am afraid this will become another battle, and I very much doubt the motives of this one-purpose editor with no talk page or other contributions. Could you review the issue on the discussion page and advise me? Thanks in advance. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Postive UT feedback much appreciated. I've played quite a bit of Brennan before - I'm currently working my way through a pile of his albums I only obtained for the first time earlier this year. Burmer has less albums available (and is now dead, so there are no more on the way). I find his sweeter sound less to my taste. He gets an airing every now and then. Haven't forgotten about the Atlantium stuff - just snowed under like you wouldn't believe atm. You might want to look at Principality of Sealand in the interim. 5 years ago we were fighting to prevent the article being deleted because it was about a micronation. Now we're facing a budding edit war because one person says its not a micronation (despite the fact that's what the people running it call it) but a real country. -- Gene_poole ( talk) 10:47, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The original article was tagged by User:Betacommand for WP:CSD#G11. I've taken a look at the article in the state it was in when I deleted it and to be honest I think my G11 was wrong, and probably influenced by the tag. It did however look a bit spammy due to the external links (often a bit of a giveaway) adn the tone was promotional. At the time it also didn't really assert notability either. Looking at the article now it all seems fine. On balance I probably should have declined speedy and taken it to AFD instead when it was originally created. Just curious as to why you asked? Any further info just let mew know! Pedro : Chat 11:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
im sorry i don't think he is using that name anymore because his user page hasn't been used for months and his Distastefull coments were made a couple of weeks ago and somebody would have contaced him and he would have said something this gives me the hunch that he is no longer useing that talk page so i had to go were he was agureing about last. ANOMALY-117 23:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
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02:26, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Every section heading should be a potential article name? Not really... The difference between a section heading and an article name is that the former belongs in the context of a particular article. My FA Durian has "Uses" section, and an article named "Uses" won't make much sense.
Having said that, I know the section heading "Pre-contact Hawaii (AD 300-1778)" is not exactly an ideal one. Nor is "Ancient Hawaii", since it would be categorizing the 17th century as a segment in ancient times. Isn't "ancient history" about the period from the beginning of history until the Early Middle Ages (meaning approx. 5th century)? You are welcome to suggest better alternatives for the section heading. How about "Polynesian Hawaii"? -- BorgQueen 13:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
There used to be an external link on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil leading to a article on the Health Benefits of Olive Oil. I was not the one to originally add the link, but I see that it is gone, and when I attempted to re-add it, it is quickly removed by a moderator.
This was the original link http://www.whatsfordinner.net/article-olive-oil.html
This is the new one http://www.foodasfood.com/health-benefits-of-olive-oil/
The first article is more informative than the 2nd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluetiddlywinks ( talk • contribs) 10:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
The December 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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First official still from Choke (film). :) — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 17:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of your participation in discussions relating to the "PSTS" model in the No original research article, I am notifying you that a request for arbitration has been opened here. I invite you to provide a statement encouraging the Arbcom to review this matter, so that we can settle it once and for all. COGDEN 00:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
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Dear Viriditas,
As a previous editor of the Jeff Rosenbaum article, and having shown an interest in Starwood Festival and WinterStar Symposium, I was hoping you could look into a situation concerning them. An editor (Kathryn NicDhàna) who I have had conflict with in the past has begun peppering the articles with "citation needed" tags, and reverting any input I have, including citations to satisfy those tags. Another, Mattisse, who started much of my previous woes via multiple sock-puppets, has begun doing the same on articles I created or regularly edit (like M. Macha Nightmare and Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart). I am afraid this is an attempt to sucker me into "aggressive editing" and get me in trouble, when all I have done is reorganized some material under more appropriate headings and provide one new citation. Even a link from an article in a bibliography to an online site for that article has been deleted. You can see my arguments on the talk pages; the editor in question is NOT discussing these things with me, just posting scolds in the edit summaries. I don't consider the edits controversial, and most are public knowledge.
I'm not sure what to do about some of this stuff. How do you provide a citation for a college degree, for instance? Kathryn challenges the ACE website which has a bio of Jeff Rosenbaum as a speaker, claiming that it's not a "3rd party source", even though I am not the webmaster of that site nor have ever inputted anything to it, and this fact is not controversial. However, the CWRU Alumni records and the Registrar's files for 1978 are not available to the public nor posted on a website. Also, I know there are no rules forbidding me to add information with proper citations, like the Mid-West Materials info, to the article, nor forbidding me to reorganize the material, but Kathryn insists on acting like there are such rules, and simply wholesale reverting whatever I do.
She suggests that others can add the material. This is obviously not about the data, but a problem she has with me about such issues as POV and COI, issues that were put to bed long ago (I thought) with the assurance that I was free to edit as long as I did not do so "aggressivly" or edit war. Might you be able to look into these edits and judge for yourself, and perhaps act and/or advise? Rosencomet ( talk) 00:20, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for uploading Image:Clinton Buddy 120597.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Mr Senseless ( talk) 08:26, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, all the books are there so far. If they insist that the articles published in The Free Press are inappropriate, I won't fight over it. I don't understand why everything has been taken out of the "reference" section and renamed other things under "Miscellanea". The books all refer to the subject and help support both the notability of the subject and the facts in the text, like "He serves as Executive Director of the organization, which has organized the Starwood Festival each year since 1981 and the WinterStar Symposium each winter since 1984."
If the article is left alone at this point, I'd be OK with it, except for the unnecessary "Miscellanea" heading. But I expect more cutting. These folks have a habit of insisting I document things in ways I've never seen others do, like the "notability" of the articles, or expecting the appearances on radio and TV to have "3rd-party citations", as if there needs to be a newspaper reporter who wrote an article about the radio interview. If they doubt the appearance on Jeff & Christie, they can contact the TV station; otherwise, why don't they assume good faith? I do NOT have a record of adding false information to articles.
What worries me more, is that Kathryn, Pigman and Mattisse, who have caused me a great deal of trouble and edit warred with me for months (while I NEVER touched a single article they wrote or regularly edited in a way they disagreed with, or pretty much at all), have in the past few days deleted chunks from WinterStar Symposium, tagged seven articles I've written, marked one for deletion, and helped delete another. I feel like they are targetting my work, and will do more of the same soon. I also firmly believe that the list on the WinterStar article is NOT a "laundry list" (and I HAVE read that guideline), and really contributes to the article and says a lot about the event, and is very much in keeping with similar lists in articles about other events, as I've said and documented on the talk page extensively. Rosencomet ( talk) 04:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
In a word, WOW! Kudos for the great material on Matthew. And many thanks. Rosencomet ( talk) 05:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I am going to go to bed and try to wind down. It would be lovely if we could solve the problem that all the other warring editors have failed for months to solve. I'm certain a solution is possible, so perhaps simply having people who don't feel hostile toward one another work on it will turn something up. My (perhaps naive) take is that the core problem on this policy has been that peer-reviewed literature cites are challenged inappropriately, either because the PSTS distinction is too complex and discipline-variant, and it should be ditched (my very favorite choice) or because the use language needs to written more clearly (what I'm trying to work with on WP:EVALUTE). I believe that every editor wants to make it very clear that syntheses are original research and are verboten, and that we recognize that editors may have a particular tendency to string together cited material to create new syntheses. That needs to be clearly prohibited. But it needs to be done so in a way that does not cause editors to think that secondary source cites are required when a primary source cite is actually completely appropriate. Good night, and good luck. -- Lquilter ( talk) 07:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey Viriditas, I am working up Sirius to FAC and there's some cool polynesian stuff it would be great to expand. You'll see what's there if you scan down the page. Any folklore/mythology input much appreciated. cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 13:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: |pages=
has extra text (
help)Regarding your question yesterday on the NOR talk page. I know my answer seemed flippant. At first I was had a nice long explanation about several things involved in this (from my biased perspective), like ownership, cliqueishness, etc. SlimVirgin is a major contributor to this policy and seems to be having some serious ownership issues with the policy, like no changes can be made to the policy without her explicit (from those outside her clique) or implicit (from those inside her clique) approval. Therefore, if someone outside her clique makes a change, either she or one of those in the clique usually revert and claim no consensus, even after weeks of discussions and compromise by those proposing the change and those 'around' her clique (though not neccessarily in it) who see areas for improvement or refinement. On the other hand, she and her clique seem to be able to make changes whenever they want without any discussions or announcements. I actually had quite a bit more to say as well. So, as you can see, before I clicked the 'Save' button, I decided that stating this there wouldn't really improve anything, and instead just aggravate the situation after we finally look like we might finally be making some progress on issues we have been suggesting for months now, but since 'they' propose it this time its possible, where as when 'we' proposed, it was just absurd and a nefarious attempt to derail policy. Get the idea now on why my answer seemed so flippant? I'm sorry for that, but it was the most PC way I thought I could say anything without aggravating the situation. Since SV has such serious ownership issues, this way since she's the one proposing changes (extremely similar to what we first suggested about 3 months ago), she can go ahead and take the credit for a good idea (hopefully), and try to continue to impress Jimbo and others about her great ideas and flexibility, and tireless dedication to the Wiki project, yada, yada, yada. I don't really care as long as progress is getting made. I'm still trying to think of a PC way of defending Vassyana and blasting SV, but my mind is still drawing a blank. wbfergus Talk 13:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Viriditas, I just wanted to clarify my involvement in the AfD nomination of Grey School of Wizadry in light of your comments here [8]. I am by no means involved in any harassment and did not know who Rosencomet was before I nominated the article he wrote for deletion (nor would it have made any difference if I knew the editor). I seem to have stumbled upon a controversial editor and I by no means wish to add to the controversy. The article had been deleted previously, but I nominated it for deletion (rather than tagging it under CSD#G4) to give the user a chance to respond and/or tidy up the article. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding. I would also respectfully request that you be careful when responding to others' comments in the future, as your reply to my notice could have been inferred to be suggesting impropriety on my part where there was none. :-) Happy Editing and Cheers! -- Simple Paradox 19:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I urge you to read the Q & A of Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Salix alba, currently open, for another view of the Starwood situation. He uses some of his interventions into the Starwood situation as reasons why he should be elected:
I was involved in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Starwood and related RfC's, checkuser requests, etc. This was indeed the ugly side of wikipedia which lots of accusations of sockpuppetry, harassment. A prime example of a ForestFire a small dispute spreading out of control. A lot of people left wikiedia as a result. One of the most worrying parts was that a users past mistakes can hang over them and be used as a Scarlet Letter. Another problem was in how long the dispute took to resolve, nearly a year. Swifter action from someone with sufficient authority could have averted a lot of problems. My role in the case was somewhat less than successful attempt to resolve the conflict. I tried to get a mediation cable case going, wrote a well supported outside view on an RfC. In the end the RfA managed to more or less managed to preserve the community.
One of the issues he addresses is the use of a Scarlet Letter. This is a direct reference to me and the continuous allegations that I was using sock puppets by Rosencoment and his supporters: User:999, Hanuman Das, and User:Ekajati who, ironically, turned out to be sock puppets themselves, along with User:Tunnels of Set, User:Frater Xyzzy. User:Khabs and others. Recently User:Essittam (who has been doing a lot of Starwood editing recently) has been added to the sock puppet list: Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ekajati. Salix alba started a mediation on the issue, but while that was opening Hanuman Das filed an Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Mattisse, the result of which should have put an end to the matter regarding my sock puppets. However, the allegations continued so during the Starwood Arbitration, an arbitrator recused himself and chased down the sock puppets supporting Rosencomet. Now Rosencomet is continuing this practice of using allegations as a Scarlet Letter. I urge you to try to get him to discontinue personal attacks on editors and concentrate on the content of articles so that action against him will not be necessary. Regards, Mattisse 21:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
No, that image was used on Spider-Man 3, and it's bounced around since. I looked at where they were now and grunted -- didn't want to expend the effort to fix so that they could fit or remove them only to have them restored. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 15:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was thinking of helping out there. Since getting the admin mop and bucket, I've been spending too high a percentage of my WP time doing janitorial duties rather than constructive editing. If I don't start doing regular work, I will undoubtedly burn out. We'll see whether I actually do so. BTW, I've withdrawn my AfD nom for Matthew Abelson. Cheers, Pigman ☿ 18:54, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Viriditas, I think you'll find that I haven't been trying to redefine anything the last couple of days. Since you added in all the tables & references I've simply been trying to digest & think through the language in those. I took out the one phrase from the sandbox guideline because I felt it was unambiguously placed in PS but I didn't move it anywhere. I wish you wouldn't leave the discussion, because you have a lot to contribute, but I also wish you would accept that people may be arguing not out of bad faith or simply to be argumentative, but because we have different frames of reference and what may seem clear to one person may be ambiguous to another. If you need to stay away, though, I understand. Cheers, Lquilter ( talk) 17:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)