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Did I miss any?Hi, if you have a minute, please review the list of articles below. I am trying to identify our text dealing with the first part of the 7-part plan, i.e., that Trump knew he lost and lied about fraud anyway.
Thanks for any help you can offer. At the moment I'm compiling ideas in my user space using file prefix 111, and am mainly working on what could possibly evolve into a real outline article. But I've an open mind what direction to wander off in.... NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 13:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC) What is a "coup" in the age of Trump?Fuck everything you have usually associated with the word "coup". Get out of that tiny box that only sees a "coup" as a military overthrowal of another person in office. Follow what RS say about THIS situation. Trump tried to "recoup" ("regain something lost or expended") an election he lost by lying about his loss and refusing to relinquish power. He violated the rules of play in the USA and adopted a course of action one has seen in other, usually third world, nations where the one in power stays on after their rightful term of office has expired. What happened here is now being described by RS as a "coup". Start revising your way of thinking, because it no longer applies. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:33, 20 July 2022 (UTC) Check inI'm beyond concerned about current affairs, and I am guessing you might be too. Are you OK though? Feel free to email me if you wanna talk off wiki about.... well, about anything. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 16:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Excuse me for not noticing this context for you starting this thread. WTF? Maybe just deleting or striking the first paragraph of an otherwise serious, useful, and on-topic thread would have been a good faith approach. Disappointed. That edit of yours is concerning. I was fine until now. Sheesh. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:31, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Downgrade vs deprecateWhile I respect and admire your message, you might want to consider retaining "downgrade" as a 2nd choice in the event that "deprecate" lacks sufficient consensus. Andre 🚐 02:44, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Types of sources used at Steele dossier articleNot necessarily complete...
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:52, 22 August 2022 (UTC) The simple answerThe simple answer as to why Trump has not (yet) been charged with destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, witness intimidation/bribery, etc, is that he didn't actually do that stuff, or rather that there's not enough evidence out there to prove it. Mr Ernie ( talk) 20:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
LOL! Yes, MastCell, when the limited worldview of Fox News viewers comes to light, it's truly shocking how little they know of what's been happening in Trump world. Statistics from 2012 (below) show that Fox News viewers know less about current affairs than those who see no news at all. Since the advent of the Trump cult bubble, it's gotten much worse. By contrast, people who access NPR and The Daily Show are very well informed. Trump's condemnation of all media that doesn't support his lies, calling them "fake news", and his dissing of fact-checkers, has had a catastrophic effect on his supporters, keeping them in a bubble of very limited information. (See Trump's misuse of the term "fake news".) They literally don't know what's happening outside that bubble. That's why I haven't replied to the comment above. To start to unpack it would be a waste of time. What we have seen and heard from Trump's own mouth, and what all the investigations have found, has been blocked or filtered by Fox News and sources even further to the right. All other news sources, all over the world (all condemned by Trump as "fake news"), have reported these things, but Fox News and most other right-wing sources have not done it. Trump supporters tend to limit their sources to those that fail to cover anything negative about Trump, IOW those he does not condemn, which leaves a very limited group of sources. The result is comments like the above. They see Trump as the victim of a witch hunt, rather than the victim of the rightful exposure of his own narcissism, lies, corruption, and fealty to Russia and money. If any other leading politician behaved as he does, they would be treated in the same way by the media, but he's uniquely bad in every conceivable way. Why should he get a free pass? That's what his supporters want.
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 17:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for August 26An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Where the Crawdads Sing, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page American slang. ( Opt-out instructions.) -- DPL bot ( talk) 09:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC) Please don't accuse of whitewashingValjean, I know we are both working in good faith even if we don't always agree. Accusations of whitewashing in edit summaries aren't helpful. Certainly we can both be acting in good faith while disagreeing. Springee ( talk) 17:42, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
A barnstar
Where to start cleaning upHello, Valjean. I see now that the 85 editor managed to get themselves blocked. While that's unfortunate, they've been creating quite a mess behind them and I'm curious where I should start cleaning up behind them. Thanks. BlueNoise ( talk) 07:31, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Big changes, require RFCs
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The Admin's Barnstar |
This editor deserves this barnstar for being so prolific Oleleho ( talk) 12:59, 4 November 2022 (UTC) |
Hi Valjean, I am following up on a BLP sanction action you made against me on Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory. Review: 1) When answering a topic question about the focus of the article, I explained it was about the "quid pro quo between Biden and the Ukraine." 2) You claimed that characterization was a BLP violation and demanded I modify my claim. 3) When I refused, you deleted my comment and closed the topic with the justification that it was a "BLP vio deleted per policy." Reaction: I am perplexed by your action as the Latin term " quid pro quo" merely indicates an exchange and is definitively not pejorative. Furthermore, I added nothing to characterize it as anything other than an exchange. Whether or not the exchange was criminal is to be determined, but regardless any interaction, criminal or not, can be characterized as quid pro quo. Resolve: Would you be kind enough to cite here the policy you used for the sanction, and if done in error, would you be kind enough to reverse your action. Thank you very much! Lexlex ( talk) 15:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Let me get this right. You assert I'm guilty of an "incorrect interpretation of what" [you] "write" but won't explain how I have misinterpreted you, and that this refusal by you is somehow my fault. Is that right? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:18, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Gah4, it's an alleged quid pro quo that has been debunked, IOW we should never leave the impression it might be true or even personally think so. It's not just an unconfirmed allegation (like the peetape allegation) where some lingering doubt may be allowable. This is where we can see how Wikipedia-policy-thinking is similar to scientific skepticism, IOW critical thinking that follows the scientific method. We, like scientists, are obligated to follow the evidence/RS. Until we have better evidence, we continue to believe that the theory of gravity is correct. Until we have better sources and more knowledge, we believe that Biden acted appropriately and that the allegation is just part of Trump's counterfactual cover-up efforts.
Tim Minchin has a great beat poem on critical thinking that contains this quote:
Minchin is both funny and deadly serious. He packages some profound truths in that beat poem. It's worth listening to several times. He contrasts scientific/progressive thinking with unscientific/faith/conservative thinking. SNL is comedy and satire, like The Onion, so we expect truth to be mixed with exaggeration and other comedic tricks. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 03:06, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello Valjean. Just to let you know, I've removed the informational autocracy section from the Alternative facts article again, and put the information into the informational autocracy article. Perhaps you could take a look. Mucube ( talk) 00:13, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Edits like this are basically pointless or vindictive. We typically allow editors -- even annoying editors who appear to be working their way towards a block -- wide latitude in what they post on their own user/user talk pages. I'm sure you're understandably irritated with that editor's contributions. But I hope you can find the dermal fortitude to let their small outburst roll off of you. Ajpolino ( talk) 20:26, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Well, so much for closing/hatting or sub-sectioning anything. One just keeps getting reverted. GoodDay ( talk) 23:15, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Val, you've my consent to close/hat or sub-section the discussion-in-question, at Trump's talkpage. GoodDay ( talk) 00:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
My apologies Val. I didn't mean to influence you in anyway. GoodDay ( talk) 00:51, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
GoodDay, sorry about all this happening to you after I encouraged you to hat the section. Also, there was no canvassing here, just a comment about what happened in a situation I knew about. I'll add a comment at the end of the old section. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Human energy field and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 16#Human energy field until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Steel1943 (
talk)
15:30, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Are you withdrawing your option from the RfC. Did you not intend for it to be considered, in which case I erred in adding it? It's common practice to add alternatives to nascent RfC's and I thought yours had already received some support. If you have withdrawn it, why not consider re-adding? SPECIFICO talk 02:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Do you really mean to say that you have sources to establish that the box on which the files were discovered was owned and used by Biden? The box has only been touched by the blind repair guy and the FBI that we know of. SPECIFICO talk 18:49, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
That is not the consensus of RS. Also, whether or not some files on the laptop were not placed there by him does not invalidate the point it was his laptop. That just means its contents may have been corrupted. Such alternative views may exist on some RS, and, if so, we should also mention those views. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 01:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
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Hey, Valjean. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the
Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC) |
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![]() | Happy First Edit Day! Hi Valjean! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made your first edit and became a Wikipedian! CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC) |
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No, not this year. I don't want to argue about horrid foods this time. Instead, I wanted to list the 4 food related places I miss most from California.
Merry Christmas and an argumentative New Year! Springee ( talk) 17:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Your revert to my edit on David Duke's page, despite there being overwhelming consensus on Wikipedia that the content you reverted to is not appropriate, is very troubling. I have been threatened with a ban for such behavior, yet you act with impunity. You are moving the goal posts. I was specifically told to go to "biographies of living persons" to establish consensus on this issue. I did so, and the consensus was 100% unanimously opposed to the position you are taking. I am addressing the issue of the statement "convicted felon" in an opening sentence, not just on Duke's page, but on Wikipedia generally. I'm not going to fight tooth and nail against disruptive editors on every single page that includes this language. The topic has been discussed multiple times at "biographies of living persons", as I have linked elsewhere. There exists an overwhelming, practically unanimous consensus on this issue, yet you revert my edit without a second thought because you personally don't like it. That's not appropriate, and any other editor without your history and resume would be either warned about this disruptive behavior or outright threatened with a ban. Follow the advice that you yourself have given me - if you don't like an edit, join the discussion on the relevant talk pages and advocate for your position while explaining why the established consensus is wrong. If reverting an edit that reflects consensus to a previous version that does *not* reflect consensus isn't an example of disruptive editing practices, what is?
Please explain yourself, and refrain from being disruptive until you have thoroughly explained your position on the issue, discussed why you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, and convinced others to adopt your view as the consensus view. Otherwise I'll have to figure out who your "higher ups" are, so to speak, and bring your bad faith and disruptive actions to their attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philomathes2357 ( talk • contribs) 23:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
With regard to this edit, the IP was referring not to Max Blumenthal, but rather to his father Sidney Blumenthal. Despite being related, the two Blumenthals have very different political views on Russia (and presumably much else). Regards, TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 00:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
Howdy. Wouldn't it be clearer, just to state that you support option three? GoodDay ( talk) 16:57, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The source is Our Barbara. I know how to reference items but don't you know how to do it? Infactinteresting ( talk) 06:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Valjean,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable
New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
—
Moops ⋠
T⋡
17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Send New Year cheer by adding {{ subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
— Moops ⋠ T⋡ 17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Preliminary test |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Original tweets: (Description added)
David Zweig
Original tweets:
David Zweig
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Yes! Thank you. This is much better than using EL. Twitter is hard to navigate for the occassional user and this page and in this format is the best way for users to find and read the full threads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.251.125.121 ( talk) 14:46, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
While I agree that this is a poor edit [15] I don't actually think there are grounds to remove it. Do you know something which I do not? Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 17:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar |
Thank you for defending me against sock puppetry accusations Dronebogus ( talk) 01:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC) |
Wikipedia:TalkAbuse, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for
deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:TalkAbuse and please be sure to
sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of
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silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (
inquire within)
12:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Look here, look at the comment Herostratus makes to you near the beginning, and read it. Carefully. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 06:39, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Philomathes2357, I read it and it's an entirely different situation. Regardless, edit warring is not justified in this situation. This is not a clear BLP violation, therefore you should act collaboratively and discuss, per BLP. Stop posting here and stop discussing this on people's talk pages. Concentrate on the edit-warring noticeboard thread. No one can force you to edit war. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 06:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. I am well aware of the situation but am undecided about the best course of action in the short term. These things often play out on a fairly predictable time line, and I see that another administrator is also paying close attention. Cullen328 ( talk) 07:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Interesting news: Weiser, Benjamin (2023-01-23). "Former Top F.B.I. Official in New York Charged in Money Laundering". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2023-01-23. Andre 🚐 17:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
involved in some of the FISA stuff about Page (plus Crossfire Hurricane in general)? soibangla ( talk) 18:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Yes, during the Trump campaign, Giuliani bragged about getting info from the New York FBI field office, and Trump knew it and used it. The NY FBI did not like Hillary and apparently tried to damage her campaign by aiding Trump. I remember that I was very alarmed at the time.
Many RS covered this: [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]
Rudy then tried to deny it.
This was tied to the "her emails" thing and should be mentioned at Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton email controversy.
He clearly had access there through one or more agents he could talk to. I'm not sure it involved McGonigal. The timing for when he started in New York is crucial.
It was also there that they let Steele's first reports languish for two months. There was some sort of corruption at that office. It's as if all forms of law enforcement in New York is corrupt. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:46, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Long before the dossier, Steele, Bruce Ohr, and possibly Glen Simpson and Nellie Ohr at Fusion GPS were involved with the FBI in its attempts to flip Deripaska. [23] [24] Fusion GPS kept Deripaska as a client, ostensibly to help him get a visa, a convenient way to get close and stay close to him.
Unreliable sources try to conflate that into a connection with the Trump Tower meeting, and we have fringe editors here who slyly push that baseless conspiracy theory. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Andre, the timing for him working in the New York FBI field office is mentioned here:
Before his retirement in 2018, McGonigal led the WikiLeaks investigation into Chelsea Manning, busted Bill Clinton's national security advisor Sandy Berger for removing classified material from a National Archives reading room, and led the search for a Chinese mole inside the CIA. In 2016, when reports surfaced that Russia had hacked the email system of the Democratic National Committee, McGonigal was serving as chief of the cybercrimes section at FBI headquarters in Washington. In that capacity, he was one of the first officials to learn that a Trump campaign official had bragged that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton, sparking the investigation known as Operation Crossfire Hurricane. Later that year, FBI Director James Comey promoted McGonigal to oversee counterintelligence operations in New York. [25]
User:Mr Ernie, is there anything there that looks improper or dirty? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 21:08, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Marcy has some interesting observations. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:47, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
In one respect [27] you will leave the world in a better place than it started. Bon courage ( talk) 07:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
I've only just gotten to the end of the section on "Sources: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" and have gotten so much out of it. Thank you for putting together this piece of research. Like!
Platonk (
talk)
06:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
For this section.
(after the Mueller Report) Subsequently, the Republican-led U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee issued a report finding that interactions with Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik during the 2016 election by Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort posed a "grave counterintelligence threat". [1]
Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, reacted to the report by writing an article titled "Senate Russia report proves Trump collusion was very real. But do voters care?" He described how "the report reveals how the Trump campaign willingly engaged with Russian operatives implementing the influence effort." [2]
Copied here from elsewhere:
References
Editors should understand how to evaluate sources, and here are some red flags to watch for. Any source that sows doubt about the following proven facts is not a RS:
Let me nail these facts firmly on the front door of Wikipedia:
No editor here should doubt any of the facts mentioned above. Period. Only "fringe editors" [5] doubt them. In these post-truth [6] [7] Trumpian [8] political times, fringe editors often have a strong Trump bias and point of view because they adopt Trump's open animosity toward RS [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] and believe his untruths and the fake news stories that are circulated in his support and attack those he does not like. They live in a closed information bubble and are often ignorant of the facts, thus disqualifying them from editing on politically sensitive topics. AP2 topic bans are usually the best way to deal with them until they show a positive learning curve that demonstrates they are better informed and can vet sources accurately.
Facts are facts, lies are lies, and opinions are not facts. Sources that undermine those facts are the ones that should be removed and deprecated. All editors should know which sources do that and that those sources are often defended by fringe editors here at Wikipedia. The Washington Post and The New York Times are not such sources. -- Valjean ( talk) 19:14, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
References
Mr Ernie, please don't advocate for the "Trump is the victim of a hoax" idea in any way, shape, or form, whether you tie it to the dossier or other aspects of Trump/Russia relations. The dossier is not a "hoax", and Trump is not the victim of a hoax or witch hunt. The suspicions and investigations of Trump and his campaign are all inspired by his own dubious activities.
You wrote: "The "collusion" stuff has always been a hoax grounded firmly in the Steele Dossier." The "hoax" aspect of that comment of yours was improper at Wikipedia and false everywhere.
Here at Wikipedia, advocacy of fringe theories is forbidden activity. It's tendentious and unwikipedian. Keep that in mind. This response to soibangla, which you edit warred over, is a case in point:
Readers who think Wikipedia is biased really only have 2 options. Argue with the editors on the talk page, who aren't going to go against Wikipedia policies, or just ignore these articles and get your info directly from these article subjects. While the former can be somewhat fun for people who like to argue, you'll eventually get sanctioned and lose the privilege to do it. So go with the latter. I don't choose which media I consume based on what Wikipedia says, but by what interests me personally. (18:59, 3 November 2021)
Let's unpack all the meaning packed in that fateful quote, because you are indeed a reader "who thinks Wikipedia is biased".
That was horribly unwikipedian thinking. Why deliberately go with unreliable sources?
Why not agree with RS so there would be no need to argue with other editors? Instead, you violate your own advice all the time and argue with mainstream editors who get their views from the RS you don't like,
So you admit that your preferences are blockable offenses.
It appears that "what interests [you] personally" is what you read on unreliable sources. That's the only way I can interpret what you wrote when compared with your frequent pushing of views found in unreliable sources and conspiracy theories. (At least you're consistent and follow your own beliefs.)
Instead of "ignoring" our articles, you should read them and their sources to learn what is factual. Let your mind be guided by evidence, not by "what interests [you] personally".
After a long edit war with several other editors over that content, you restored it with an alteration:
Readers who think Wikipedia is biased really only have 2 options. Argue with the editors on the talk page, who aren't going to go against Wikipedia policies, or just ignore these articles and get your info directly from these article subjects. Continuing to just complain about reliable sources and article bias isn't productive. (16:52, 4 November 2021)
I guess you realized what part wasn't wise to utter out loud here, but you had already expressed your real disdain for our articles, for RS, and how you favor using unreliable sources. That cat is out of the bag, and we all know it. Please(!!) alter your beliefs, and, even if you don't, don't allow them to affect your discussions and editing, because it's quite evident when you are allowing that to happen. You can still do good work here if you're careful and avoid the political articles.
IIRC, you have been warned several times by several admins that an WP:ARBAP2 topic ban hangs over your head if you continue to do as you are doing now. Some of your comments (like the ones above) violate our Advocacy and Fringe policies, so, if you want to avoid a topic ban or stay here at all, please follow my advice. -- Valjean ( talk) 21:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
When approaching an AfD, editors should ignore all problems with the article and ask themselves only ONE question: "Does this pass our General notability guideline (GNG)?" If so, !vote Keep, as that is the ONLY relevant question at an AfD. If the article appears to fail GNG, can it be rescued by finding more RS? Then advocate for that before !voting Delete. All other concerns and problems with the article are covered by WP:PRESERVE.
Fixing and improving, not deleting, is how we roll here, and bogus AfDs violate our "purpose" here, which is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," as long as it's found in RS. Editors who create AfDs for articles that pass GNG should be trouted for undermining the very reason Wikipedia was created. If they do it repeatedly, they should be topic banned from creating AfDs.
Editors who create articles often deal with bogus AfDs from editors who are ignoring/resisting our "purpose" here. They are forgetting that "not censored" is also aimed at what they are doing.
We need a "purpose" policy that can be cited when it's violated. AfDs are often attacks against GNG: Articles that clearly pass GNG are nominated for deletion, and the reason often turns out to be a hodgepodge of dubious arguments that collectively violate our "purpose" and are basically I don't like it. While no editor can be required to create an article or to make an edit, they certainly should be sanctioned if they get in the way of the creation of an article that passes GNG. This kind of extreme (actually very common!) deletionism is wrong. We should aid the creation of articles and content. We're here to build, not destroy.
Our job (purpose here) is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," [1] [2] and editors must not leave or create holes in our coverage.
Editors must not exercise censorship; they must present all significant sides of any controversy and document the opposing points of view, and they must not shield readers from such views. To leave out one side amounts to promoting the other side's POV. Wikipedia should include more information than other encyclopedias, not less. Our goal is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," [1] and censorship seriously undermines that goal.
Because Wikipedia is created through inclusionism, another objection to deletion of content is that deletion "goes against the entire basic premise" of Wikipedia: "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." — Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia. [3] We try to build content, not break it down. Imperfect content is not removed, it is improved. Good faith editors should not be made to feel their work is in vain.
Wikipedia isn't just another encyclopedia. It aims to be exhaustive in an unlimited sense. It should be unlike all others in scope and size. It is the Internet Archive of knowledge. If a piece of knowledge is notable enough (mention in multiple RS), an article should be created for it, or (if only mentioned in one or two RS) it should at least be mentioned in an existing article or list. We need to be super-inclusive. I have an essay which deals with how NPOV deals with biased sources, and it touches on these subjects: NPOV means neutral editing, not neutral content. -- Valjean ( talk) 17:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
References
Quote: "In particular, the goal of the Wikipedia is to produce the best encyclopedia encapsulating the sum total of human knowledge.... [It] offers the possibility of everything being written into history, with all of mankind sharing knowledge and information in a way that enables everyone to profit from it." — Wikipedia:Testimonials
User:Valjean/Essay/WikiPurpose
Copied from User talk:Stiabhna#Fringe beliefs.
I'm trying to save you so you can end up a good editor. Read what follows with that in mind.
Like I wrote above, you are allowed to believe whatever you want, but openly advocating things that are pushed by unreliable sources and are contrary to what reliable sources say places you right in the middle of a " fringe editor" target. On your user page you have written your political beliefs:
You should not be proud that you believe in that trifecta of misinformation. You need to catch up with the facts, so please read the following articles and their sources. :
I hope you will bring your beliefs into line with the facts. Facts matter, and it's important to keep your beliefs up-to-date and always follow the evidence:
Our articles are based on reliable sources, so you can generally trust them to be factual. Please believe them. -- Valjean ( talk) 01:38, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
References
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cite journal}}
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Cyberwar: How Russian Hackers and Trolls Helped Elect a President Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 07:38, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
I haven’t had a chance to read this review yet from CJR but I am planning to tomorrow. Have you seen it yet? Mr Ernie ( talk) 00:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Kyle Pope is a serious journalist, and he's covered these topics before:
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 02:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
I see that it's all written by Jeff Gerth. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 02:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
He starts off on the wrong foot, and that doesn't bode well: "inquiry into whether Donald Trump was colluding with Russia". Mueller made clear he was interested in "conspiracy" and "coordination", not "collusion". This is carelessness. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 05:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
By 2016, as Trump’s political viability grew and he voiced admiration for Russia’s “strong leader,” Clinton and her campaign would secretly sponsor and publicly promote an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that there was a secret alliance between Trump and Russia(emphasis mine - btw where's our Wikipedia article on that conspiracy theory?). We all well know how the Clinton campaign would also go on to indirectly fund a misinformation dossier put together by a foreign ex-spy and some shady Russian players. It's also impressive how impactful Simpson and his contacts were. Mr Ernie ( talk) 15:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Helson testified that Danchenko's reports as a confidential informant were used by the FBI in 25 investigations and 40 intelligence reports during a nearly four-year period from March 2017 to October 2020.... Danchenko, the FBI agent said, was considered 'a model' informant and 'reshaped the way the U.S. even perceives threats.' Helson said that none of his previous informants had ever had as many sub-sources as Danchenko and that others at the FBI have continued to ask in recent months for Danchenko's assistance amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine. [2]
It's interesting that the introduction is written by Pope, a strong critic of the dossier. I have used a couple of the links above to bolster that criticism in the Steele dossier article (edit summary: "Pope and CJR's initial support of BuzzFeed's decision and Pope's later reversal"):
BuzzFeed's decision to publish the dossier was immediately criticized by many major media sources, among them The Guardian, The Washington Post, and The New York Times. [3] Although the Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) had originally (January 11, 2017) backed BuzzFeed's publication of the dossier, [3] and editor Kyle Pope had tweeted his support of that decision, [4] he later (November 17, 2021) described it as "a document that was never designed to meet the standards of good journalism", noting that its credibility had collapsed, and concluding that it was the source of "a lot of nonsense and misdirection" in subsequent media coverage and should not have been published at all. [5]
Mr Ernie, as a strong critic of the dossier (kudos for that), I'd be interested in you presenting here the tidbits you find in this CJR coverage. Some of them might be useful in the article, even though we already have a huge amount of criticism in the article. These opinions are still important in light of history. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
References
We defend BuzzFeed's decision to publish
From Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections#Columbia Journalism Review
References
Gerth "missed the point" and bolstered "Trump's phony narrative...Ultimately Gerth does a disservice by failing to cast Russiagate accurately. Putin's attack succeeded, with help from Trump and his crew. That has always been the big story."
His former colleagues are said to be seething with fury at him...because Gerth has betrayed basic journalistic standards....Gerth is perpetuating the coverup....[Trump] helped an adversary sabotage an American election.
This is a triumph of spin.... Yes, some of the reporting, as you would expect of a sprawling investigation, was wrong. And some expectations of where the scandal would go from opinion journalists were wrong, too...Still, the investigation produced extensive evidence of misconduct....In the main, the broad suspicion of the investigation — that Trump's pattern of oddly Russophilic statements might be explained by some hidden partnership — proved to be correct.
I wish I knew why the Columbia Journalism Review published such an unfortunate piece on such an important issue: "Misdirection, an essential tool for magicians, is not usually a component of media criticism. But in a lengthy critique of the coverage of the Trump-Russia scandal published this week by the Columbia Journalism Review, veteran investigative reporter Jeff Gerth deflects attention from the core components of Russiagate, mirroring Donald Trump's own efforts of the past six years to escape accountability for his profound betrayal of the nation.
As Corn puts it: 'With this confab, Team Trump signaled to Moscow that it was willing to accept Putin's covert assistance. It did not report to the FBI or anyone else that the Kremlin was aiming to intervene in the election. This may not have been collusion; it was complicity.'
Gerth has shown that the press, and especially the Times, was not as careful as it should have been in reporting on Russia Russia Russia. And yes, details matter. But the notion that Trump was a victim of bad reporting with regard to Russia is just nonsense. In the end, Gerth has produced a report that's all trees, no forest.
Check it out... arbcom changed the template to use to notify of what used to be called discretionary sanctions. (reg. [33]) Andre 🚐 04:00, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
Some thoughts.....
WP:RSP and fact-checking are similar because they both target the often tiny fraction of content that raises doubts and suspicions of inaccuracy. Sources and statements that are always right and raise no objections are left out. We rightly hope that all sources and commentators are truthful all the time, and we judge them harshly for any deviance.
Since POV will vary, a good source may be accused of inaccuracy by fringe editors who don't know the facts (or are POV warriors), so even the best of sources end up at WP:RSP.
When a source is not listed at WP:RSP, it usually means it is not very notable or is never controversial. It's usually a good source. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Valjean/Why Crossfire Hurricane?
Here is the lead:
Why did the FBI open the Crossfire Hurricane investigation (CH)? There were a number of factors, and a growing "confluence of events", that together "created a counterintelligence concern that the FBI was 'obligated' to investigate'". The FBI was forced by the apparent Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections to investigate "whether anyone associated with the Trump campaign was assisting Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 election".
The Crossfire Hurricane team included a "Supervisory Intelligence Analyst" (SIA), and I wondered how much could be found in just this source:
- United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary, Interview of Supervisory Intelligence Analyst. Thursday, October 29, 2020. [1]
This interview occurred under the 116th United States Congress, and so was a Republican majority committee. The Mueller report and Inspector General report on the Crossfire Hurricane investigation are also mentioned by that source.
This personal essay is an experiment (by using only one primary source) and contains my opinions in the #Summary and #Conclusion. I have no doubt made some errors and would appreciate civil comments, corrections, and sources at User talk:Valjean. Uncontroversial and truly minor fixes are allowed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 23:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
That essay contains egregious BLP violations. I am tempted to nominate it for deletion. Are you intending to put that in main space? What is the point of the essay except to use Wikipedia to host your unsourced theories? See WP:NOTESSAY. Mr Ernie ( talk) 13:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Okay, Mr Ernie, now I have looked at the private essay and see you have redacted "Trump helped an enemy nation and its military intelligence agency (GRU) undermine the elections and national security of his own country. Whether or not he "conspired" is rather irrelevant to the fact that he actually did betray his own country." and Trump "adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort" and "it appears that Trump aided an enemy's military in their acts of war." Are you redacting that because it isn't directly sourced, or because you don't realize that's what he did? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:39, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
I can easily source and attribute the opinion that Trump may be a traitor guilty of treason. It hinges on whether cyberwarfare is war. ("If we updated our definitions of war to include cyberwar"):
Those sources are good enough for attributed opinions in a private essay. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I have now tweaked and sourced that content to meet your BLP objections. What is to others a "sky is blue" situation is for the Trump fringe crowd rather murky. You really should get better informed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Out of the Shadows: The Man Behind the Steele Dossier, an ABC News documentary with George Stephanopoulos and Christopher Steele.
On October 18, 2021, this ABC News documentary aired on Hulu. It is a legitimate primary reliable source that contains content usable at the Steele dossier and Christopher Steele articles. That which is primarily about Steele would only be used at his biographical article, while some other content may be used at both articles. While most content should be sourced to secondary reliable sources which comment on the documentary, our rules for the use of primary sources allow the careful use of the documentary for some details. I suspect the right place for some of the content would be in the "Legacy" section (maybe after changing it to "Legacy and later developments"), possibly as a subsection for the documentary. We'll see out it works out, as the topic dictates the location. It may end up being nothing. The documentary revealed little real news of consequence, but it does reveal info about methods, motivations, attitudes and consequences.
I am starting a list of RS for possible use. -- Valjean ( talk) 15:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
The four pillars
In defending his work, Steele describes his intelligence reports as resting on "four pillars" of information that he believes have held up over time as accurate.
"One was, there was a large-scale Russian interference campaign in the American election in 2016," he said.
"The second was that this had been authorized and ordered at the highest levels, including Putin," he said.
"The third had been that the objective of this was to damage Hillary Clinton and to try and get this rather unorthodox candidate, Donald Trump, elected," Steele said. "And the fourth was, there was evidence of collusion between people around Trump and the Russians." [2]
While the tape itself has never been revealed, Steele said he thinks it “probably does (exist), but I wouldn't put 100% certainty on it.”
When asked why Russia has never released said tape, Steele said: "Well, it hasn't needed to be released. I think the Russians felt they'd got pretty good value out of Donald Trump when he was president of the U.S." ...
Steele said Mueller's overall report reinforced the contents of his dossier.
“There was a wholesale campaign that was organized by the leadership in Russia, that its aim was to get Donald Trump elected,” he said. “And there was a lot of evidence of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians, which they didn't report on and didn't admit, and in fact lied about.” ...
When asked why Cohen would not admit to the alleged meeting despite already being convicted of other crimes, Steele replied: "I think it's so incriminating and demeaning. … And the other reason is he might be scared of the consequences." [7]
A major objection to the golden showers allegation has been that some of the reports alluded to by Danchenko, who apparently didn't have the best sources for this info, came from "word of mouth and hearsay" "conversations with friends over beers" (IG Report). So be it, but people and RS often ignore that some of the seven sources were within Trump's own orbit (Millian and Cohen took it seriously) and workers at the hotel, not hookers and people joking in Moscow bars.
It's a BS objection, because how else would any normal person talk about such a sticky, dripping, allegation? Of course, they'll make Trump the butt of jokes. When Moscow (and Saint Petersberg) hookers told of how their colleagues were involved in the incident, those rumors spread in the hooker community, and people always make such a topic into a joke and scorn. That doesn't mean the allegation isn't true. It's pretty much the only way such an incident would become known.
So is it true? We don't know for sure, but it fits with Trump's character (he's known for sexual escapades and acts of hatred) and his own history with urolagnia (liking the sight of peeing). He liked it in Las Vegas, shortly before going to Moscow. Also, his own hatred of Obama is well-known, and it's entirely in character for Trump to come up with the idea of defiling that bed because of Obama.
The Mueller Report contains a footnote that suggests that Trump may have heard that Russia had incriminating tapes of his behavior. On October 30, 2016, Michael Cohen had received a text from Giorgi Rtskhiladze reporting that he had successfully stopped the "flow of tapes from Russia". Rtskhiladze told investigators that these were compromising tapes of Trump, and Cohen told investigators he had spoken to Trump about the issue. Rtskhiladze later told investigators "he was told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen". [11]
So Cohen did his job as fixer. He knew what Trump was capable of doing and took the rumor seriously, treating it as a real risk. He began to investigate, using his friend Rtskhiladze, who then started researching the matter. He also treated it as a real risk. We don't know how much back-and-forth correspondence there was between them; we only get one side, but there was obviously previous contact. After a while, Rtskhiladze reported back to Cohen with the good news that he had "stopped the flow of tapes". They believed there was a risk, enough to try to avert exposure. That was part of Cohen's job as Trump's "fixer".
So whether it occurred or not, there was enough risk that Trump had done such a thing that Cohen treated it as real. Innocent people don't do this. Millian was also one of the sources for the pee tape allegation, and he was inside the Trump campaign. These actions lend much weight to the evidence that the incident may have happened as alleged. It remains one of the many unproven claims, but one that is likely true.
Steele still allows that the pee tape allegation may not be true. This has always been his view, often expressed as a 50-50 likelihood. Steele's partner at Orbis, Chris Burrows, as well as Steele's wife, tried to talk him out of including it, but Steele followed standard MI6 practice, which is to include everything from all sources in your original notes. Later it gets checked for accuracy, and a final report might not include it. BuzzFeed short-circuited this process by publishing the unfinished notes without permission. The fault is BuzzFeed's, not Steele's. Steele knew that Putin's FSB often included sex tapes in their kompromat, so he couldn't ignore the reports. (I don't know if Steele also factored in Trump's personality and thus the likelihood of such actions. No one who knows Trump would be surprised if this turned out to be true.)
Regarding sources, Steele shares the exact same view as the FBI, revealed in the IG Report, that when a source is exposed, they get scared and try to minimize their involvement. The "confidential source will often take fright and try and downplay and underestimate what they've said and done". (Steele) That's also what the FBI previously told Horowitz. Both Danchenko and Millian did that, and Steele agrees with the FBI. Those who accuse Steele of faulty logic should accuse the FBI, but I doubt they know better than the FBI.
Steele wrote 17 memos which are now known as the "Steele dossier". He doesn't like the term "dossier" "because it wasn't a dossier. It's a series of reports on a live issue, the election campaign, running through time. These reports were not collated and presented in one offering, nor were they analyzed in detail by us. Effectively, it was a running commentary. It wasn't a dossier."
Steele still believes that "the evidence suggests that" "Donald Trump was colluding with the Russians".
References
OIG_12/9/2019
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Kessler_4/24/2019
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Always been a curious thing this. Relatively speaking, the Mail's complete and total ban was achieved here very easily, yet achieving the same outcome for Fox seems to still be far out of reach. The Mail being seen here as equivalent to Infowars is now evidently uncontroversial. The idea that the Mail routinely knowingly publishes falsehoods for profit, similarly uncontroversial. Yet to say these things about Fox? Still apparently controversial. My personal view is that the Mail ban is an absurdity, and needs to be revisited. But I already know Wikipedia is, for whatever reason, going to cling onto it until the bitter end. Every year that Fox is seen differently to the Mail here, seems to be a nail in the coffin of its credibility. If it ever even had any. Bandorrr ( talk) 11:47, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm very much agreeable with whatever you & others can iron out, concerning your current proposals for Donald Trump's page. GoodDay ( talk) 21:26, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Valjean/Sources for Dominion vs Fox News scandal
Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News Corporation or something like that.
In December 2020 and January 2021, Fox News, Fox Business, Newsmax, and the American Thinker withdrew allegations they had reported about Dominion and Smartmatic after one or both companies threatened legal action for defamation. [1] [2] [3] [4] In January 2021, Dominion filed defamation lawsuits against former Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, seeking $1.3 billion in damages from each. [5] [6] After Dominion filed its lawsuit against Powell, One America News Network (OANN) removed all references to Dominion and Smartmatic from its website, though without issuing public retractions. [7] [8] During subsequent months, Dominion filed suits seeking $1.6 billion in damages from each of Fox News, Newsmax, OANN and former Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne, [9] while also suing Mike Lindell and his corporation, MyPillow.
Despite motions by the defendants to dismiss the lawsuits, judges ruled that the cases against Fox News, Lindell, and MyPillow could proceed. [10] [11]
On 16 February 2023, Dominion Voting Systems filed a motion for summary judgment against Fox News, with dozens of internal communications, [12] sent during the months after the 2020 presidential election, showing several prominent network hosts and senior executives—including chairman Murdoch and CEO Suzanne Scott—discussing their knowledge that the election fraud allegations they were reporting were false. The communications showed the network was concerned that not reporting the falsehoods would alienate viewers and cause them to switch to rival conservative networks, impacting corporate profitability. [13]
References
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
The same policies and guidelines apply to all submissions, whether or not you drafted them first on your personal computer. The edit will look the same regardless. One issue to note, should you just do a plain installation, is that all of the templates and modules from English Wikipedia won't be available. isaacl ( talk) 21:57, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
...look at the meanings of the Denmark and Danish Realm articles. Georgia guy ( talk) 17:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your help doing basic tidy-up at Meek's article, I did have a question though because while we say something like "You can't use the daily mail to reference his divorce because it often doesn't fact-check itself", we have the issue where his divorce filing is a public record available online and it's obviously true - so it's true, and it's notable because it's been reported in the media, but the media in which it's reported is considered to sometimes tell untruths...I'm hitting an impasse on that issue (while trying to avoid using the Daily Mail since somebody showed me the link suggesting against it; I don't have a problem with the DM myself but almost all the facts can be sourced to other publications) - which also raises a second question. If I say "John Smith once dated Jane Doe", is it better if I put 2-3 citations for a fact, or better to only use one? Not sure if I'm "overdoing" it or "underdoing" it sometimes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LauraIngallsEvenWilder ( talk • contribs) 20:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
...for keeping an eye on articles, and insisting that content that is added be sourced, including at the Lars van Trier page. It is refreshing to see editors that still show consistent care in keeping with WP:VERIFY, and other foundational principles. Kudos. An educator. 2601:246:C700:F5:989F:41EB:E351:AFD6 ( talk) 07:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
I've replied at Talk:Luc_Montagnier#February_2023 -- Mick2 ( talk) 21:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Trump–Russia relations |
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To understand the Trump–Russia crime scene, ask the following question and focus on the second part, because the first is proven:
We know that Mueller was not able to prove "conspiracy" and "coordination" beyond a shadow of a doubt, possibly because of all the obstruction, destruction of evidence, and secret communication using burner phones and other devices that leave no trace. Mueller did prove that such devious means of communication were used.
Here is something incredible we also know. Mueller definitely "did not make a 'traditional prosecutorial judgment' on whether Trump broke the law." [1] [2]
Conspiracy is a crime that is very hard to prove. A crime itself may be easy to prove, but to prove that the participants actually conspired to commit the crime, one must pass a very high bar of evidence. Finding a formal written or oral agreement of "you do this and I'll do that" to commit the crime is often impossible, and it may never have existed as a formal agreement, even though the participants planned their actions.
The report also detailed multiple acts of potential obstruction of justice by Trump, but did not make a "traditional prosecutorial judgment" on whether Trump broke the law, suggesting that Congress should make such a determination. [1] [2] Investigators decided they could not "apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes" as an Office of Legal Counsel opinion stated that a sitting president could not be indicted, [3] and investigators would not accuse him of a crime when he cannot clear his name in court. [4] The report concluded that Congress, having the authority to take action against a president for wrongdoing, "may apply the obstruction laws". [3] The House of Representatives subsequently launched an impeachment inquiry following the Trump–Ukraine scandal, but did not pursue an article of impeachment related to the Mueller investigation. [5] [6]
Notice these words: "Investigators decided they could not "apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes." IOW, they already decided from the start that investigators were NOT allowed to find Trump guilty of a crime, so they focused on a crime that is nearly impossible to prove, and they succeeded in their goal of NOT proving such a crime.
If any crime was committed, the participants were allowed to go free because it was not proven they "conspired" to commit the crime. I don't know of any court of law that operates this way. Bank robbers do get convicted, as the crime itself is the important thing, not whether they "conspired" to rob the bank. In spite of this, many were indeed prosecuted and convicted. Then Trump pardoned many of them.
Mueller definitely "did not make a 'traditional prosecutorial judgment' on whether Trump broke the law." He chose to attempt to prove the unprovable (conspiracy) and succeeded in not proving it. Job well done.
Apologists for Russia and so-called "Russiagate" revisionists forget about the collusion and unpatriotic acts by Trump and his campaign and go so far as to deny Russian interference. That is factually and patriotically wrong.
A conspiracy was not proven, but Mueller had chosen not to focus on all the collusion he found in the process of the investigation. They found plenty of that, but most of it was not a crime, just terribly unpatriotic. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 04:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
References
The redirect
Midyear Exam has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 15 § Midyear Exam until a consensus is reached.
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:00, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Valjean, You recently opened a talk page discussion in this edit. Fifteen hours later you edited the lede of the article, and shortly thereafter hatted/closed the discussion. The compressed time frame, obscuration of the discussion, and the rapid fire edits you have been making since then are counterproductive. Also concerning is that you are flooding the article with quotes from poor quality sources such as Buzzfeed and The Skeptic's Dictionary, both yellow at WP:RSP. Cedar777 ( talk) 23:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Needs better sourcing. From Twitter Files.
On March 9, 2023, Matt Taibbi summarized his Testimony on the "Censorship-Industrial Complex" to the U.S. House Judiciary Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government as Twitter Files #18. [1] Michael Shellenberger also summarized his Testimony on Twitter and included his testimony as a link in the Twitter thread. [2]
References
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Three years! |
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-- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:09, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Re: Special:Diff/1146398416. Please tone it down. Being asked to use appropriate terminology is not assault. You've already been made aware once of the heightened expectations of editorial conduct in this topic area. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 17:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. The thread is Valjean. Thank you. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 18:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean, I appreciate your clear and active interest in learning more about this topic area, and I added a possible resource to your developing list of resources. In the meantime, I am wondering if you would consider striking the comments I identified in my statement at the pending AE request as potentially disruptive or battleground, to help bring the temperature down in this dispute.
As general background, I often favor a restorative justice approach to on-wiki conflict, which is part of why I think actively addressing some of your past statements could be beneficial, but it is because you have been so engaged in openness to learning, seeking feedback, and making apology that this seems like an idea to suggest for your consideration. Thank you, Beccaynr ( talk) 15:04, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
I have never used the service before so I am unsure whether my responses are actually reaching you. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 19:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
Woulda thought ".org/hatewatch" is a .... little selective and slanted? Never mind. No worries. Kieronoldham ( talk) 00:55, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi, please see WP:PGBOLD, which says: “ Bold editors of policy and guideline pages are strongly encouraged to follow WP:1RR or WP:0RR standards. Editing a policy to support your own argument in an active discussion may be seen as gaming the system, especially if you do not disclose your involvement in the argument when making the edits.”
You’ve made two edits to a guideline today, in the middle of a content dispute which you did not disclose, while also ignoring a discussion I started at the guideline’s talk page. I reverted both edits to the guideline because I disagree with them, and I do not believe either one merely clarified what is already implied by the guideline. Please be more careful. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 23:59, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
You said about Assange "He is a known fabricator of false information". What in particular are you thinking about thanks? NadVolum ( talk) 22:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
NV, read the section "WikiLeaks statements". A dead man cannot continue to deliver info. Assange also knew he was dealing with Guccifer 2.0, already known to be a Russian source. Assange shares Putin's hatred of Clinton. He is a political activist who is far from neutral and will use unethical methods to serve his own purposes. He is clearly on the Russian side of the equation, just like Greenwald, Taibbi, and Trump supporters. They all support fascism and despise democracy. In April 2017, Trump-appointed CIA director Mike Pompeo called WikiLeaks "a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia". [1] I doubt Trump was happy with that statement, but Pompeo had the real information which Trump tried to suppress. Pompeo knew that Russia, not Ukraine, China, Iran, or the Clinton campaign, was behind the hacking of the DNC and influence campaign against Clinton and for him. He knew that Putin was his ally and supporter, and he liked that. Even without the kompromat, he would have sided with Putin over America. That's because he political ethics are tied to money, not patriotism. Never before has America had a stooge of its greatest enemy in the White House. OTOH, that there was more pressure on Assange made Trump's offer of a pardon in August 2017 more appealing to Assange. Trump is an expert at the carrot and stick game. He threatens and then offers favors for loyalty. That's one of his major tricks for compromising those around him: "You are in trouble and have a serious problem, and I can save you if you will be loyal to me."
Anyone who shares their hatred of Hillary Clinton is suspect because they have bought into the conspiracy theories against her. 95% of the negative stuff about her is false and has its root in the old lies spread about her and her husband. She was clearly the most qualified candidate for the presidency, and yet a significant minority of Americans (but not a majority of the voters) voted against her because they believed the Russian propaganda against her, and Assange is a major player in that endeavor. Putin hates her because she is so strongly for democracy and against fascism, knows Putin like the back of her hand, knows that he can never manipulate her because he doesn't have any serious kompromat against her, and he knows she would have been a strong defender of American interests. Trump failed on all counts. He was is still #PutinsPuppet. --
Valjean (
talk) (
PING me)
14:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
From Murder of Seth Rich#WikiLeaks statements:
Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, fueled the speculation in an interview with Nieuwsuur published on August 9, 2016, which touched on the topic of risks faced by WikiLeaks' sources. [2] Unbidden, Assange brought up the case of Seth Rich. When asked directly whether Rich was a source, Assange said "we don't comment on who our sources are". [3] Subsequent statements by WikiLeaks emphasized that the organization was not naming Rich as a source, as they do with other leaks. [4]
According to the Mueller Report, WikiLeaks had received an email containing an encrypted file named "wk dnc link I .txt.gpg" from the Guccifer 2.0 GRU persona on July 14, which was four days after Seth Rich died. [5] [6] [7] In April 2018, Twitter direct messages revealed that even as Assange was suggesting publicly that WikiLeaks had obtained emails from Seth Rich, Assange was trying to obtain more emails from Guccifer 2.0, who was at the time already suspected of being linked to Russian intelligence. [8] BuzzFeed described the messages as "the starkest proof yet that Assange knew a likely Russian government hacker had the Democrat leaks he wanted. And they reveal the deliberate bad faith with which Assange fed the groundless claims that Rich was his source, even as he knew the documents' origin." [8] Mike Gottlieb, a lawyer for Rich's brother, noted that WikiLeaks received the file of stolen documents from the Russian hackers on July 14, four days after Rich was shot. Gottlieb described the chronology as "damning". [9]
References
I saw your comment that tagged me and said I did improper editorializing. The reason I included that comment was because it was originally from the start of the quoted paragraph. Your diff My diff Source
Yet journalists are quick to defend anyone who uncovers and disseminates information, as long as it’s genuine, by whatever means and with whatever motives. Julian Assange is possibly a criminal. He certainly intervened in the 2016 election, allegedly with Russian help, to damage the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. But top newspaper editors have insisted that what Assange does is protected by the First Amendment, and the Committee to Protect Journalists has protested the charges against him.
The connection seemed clear so I wanted to include it especially since other editors think Im antiAssange. I didnt know if you saw that part of the text and wanted to know if you still thought it was POV editorializing.
Im not here to argue I just want to understand and learn from my mistakes because I was trying here to do the NPOV thing and if I went too far or misunderstood I want to understand so Im just here to double check
Thank you anyway Softlemonades ( talk) 13:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
omment was improper POV editorializing added by User:Softlemonadesand wanted to know if I was going way too far or misunderstood something and I trust your judgment even if we disagree Softlemonades ( talk) 14:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian influence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort[35] Softlemonades ( talk) 23:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Mueller's investigation was an aborted, crippled, and bungled attempt to deal with an issue made impossible by Trump's corruption of the justice department, intelligence agencies, and his open obstruction of all investigations. The Senate Intelligence Committee went further and made some stronger conclusions. See Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 23:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Just saving this here...
Ask yourself a few questions:
Those are all dangerous things for any newbie to do. Start by assuming good faith that articles are written by editors who use good sources to write good content. If you disagree with any of those things, then assume you are on the wrong side of history, do not understand the issues, do not know how to vet sources for reliability, have been getting my info from bad sources, and don't know Wikipedia's policies and guidelines well enough to do much more than completely neutral and minor copy editing yet. Start by assuming you are likely wrong and then seek clarification from other editors without arguing with them. Believe their explanations because they are likely correct. Seriously. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
FYI: You mentioned in BLPN about not having exact ages. This report notes DOBs, however, it would not be acceptable for use as there is no clue who uploaded it. Still, I don't have any reason to doubt its authenticity. - Location ( talk) 21:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
This whole Lauren and Jayson Boebert romance reminds me of my young days. My first serious girlfriend was 16 when I was 18. The age of consent was 16. She was far beyond me in experience, and she wrapped me around her finger. She came to my parties and enjoyed the sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll, etc. She set her sights on me and proceeded to seduce me, dropping her boyfriend in the process. She caught me totally off guard. I was really naive. She got drunk and told her boyfriend to just go home and she would have me drive her home when she was more sober. Once out the door, she plied her tradecraft expertly. This was already after an afternoon where some of us went skinny dipping in a neighbor's pool. She was already pretty handsy under the water then. That late evening turned romantic, sexy, and then a bit tragic, as after midnight she got strong stomach pains, then passed a black mass. We saved it and drove to the ER. It was what was left after an abortion. As I said, she was much more experienced. We were together for a year, then she left me for a guy with a massively huge dick. We had been playing strip poker on my waterbed and she got an eye for him. Later, after a botched marriage and a child, she stopped me on the street and apologized and said she had given up a good thing. That was nice of her. Life was interesting, to say the least. She was a real wild child.
Here are some of the songs that remind me most of those days: " Summer of '69" [36], " A Whiter Shade of Pale" [37], " Hotel California" [38], " Comfortably Numb" [39], " All Along the Watchtower" [40], " Born to Be Wild" [41], " Black Magic Woman" [42], " Soul Kitchen" [43], " Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress" [44], " Season of the Witch" [45], " Mellow Yellow" [46] -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 00:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Hm?. -- Jayron 32 17:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Jayron32, I agree that personal preferences and political opinions should not factor into a close, and you do it right. My complaint is with the general history of how we have treated Fox News. We treat Fox and Trump differently, preferentially, much better than other sources, and that's contrary to policy. We shouldn't play favorites. We should not make exceptions for bad behavior and allow sites like Fox to get away with it because they are so popular, as clearly expressed in this excellent analysis:
The phrases "That's the main reason I've opposed multiple past efforts to downgrade Fox" and "cost-benefit analysis" really horrify me. If those are really the reasons for some editors to !vote as they have, then we have a problem, because, just like with NPOV (editors' opinions should not be added to the content we create), editorial favoritism and opinion is given primacy over how we should neutrally apply policy, and Fox and Trump have been given preferential treatment.
In a discussion of the Trump exemption with an editor who consistently defends Trump and Fox in an improper manner, I mention how they apply IAR for Trump: "You are the one who linked to IAR in your rely. WP:Common sense redirects to IAR. Maybe you didn't realize that? You should nominate that redirect for deletion as well, because it is not common sense to IAR in relation to Trump. Your use creates an exemption for him not given to others."
My point is that we have always IAR in relation to Teflon Don Trump and Fox News, and I see that as problematic. It's time that stopped, and in this latest RfC, I see that a couple editors who normally protect Fox News have actually moved, but some of the usual suspects do not. There is literally nothing Fox can do wrong which will move them. Look at the editing patterns of those who defend Fox in the RfC. You will see extreme protectionism of Fox and Trump, a type of protectionism that causes them to ride roughshod over multiple PAG, create disruption, and block progress in the same topic areas usually lied about by Fox and Trump.
We need to create a policy or guideline that deals with protectionism as violations of NOTCENSORED, NPOV, and PUBLIGFIGURE. PAG and RS take primacy over editors' personal opinions. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:38, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
When did the existence of Crossfire Hurricane first become publicly known? In 2017, right? I think this should be noted in the article. soibangla ( talk) 02:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
A cool template:
{{subst:Please see|link}}
You are invited to join the discussion at
link.
Valjean (
talk) (
PING me) 16:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Valjean (
talk) (
PING me)
16:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Look at the vain attempts at spinning this [47] Andre 🚐 00:57, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
WP:NOTFORUM |
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SPA, NOTFORUM SPECIFICO talk 21:47, 16 May 2023 (UTC) |
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I noticed that the below (the reference links are included on the articles) keeps getting removed from Propaganda in China and Censorship of Wikipedia. Any thoughts?
HertzUranus ( talk) 19:10, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean, you recently added two adjectives, myriad and suspicious, to the Donald Trump page, with three cites supporting those two words, a total of over 900 bytes for two additional words. We still have the size problem, and, considering the various ongoing investigations and lawsuits, it’s going to get bigger. (The Guardian article on Steele is dated and would probably be less positive now.) The first paragraph of the section says that CIA, FBI, and NSA were investigating the links — that says "suspicious" in big neon letters. And "myriad" is a bit too hyperbolic. We have two RS supporting our sentence that the links between Trump associates and Russia were widely reported in 2017. That the Durham investigation would face-plant was to be expected. IMO, it doesn’t add to or contradict anything that we mention at Donald Trump. I’ll get around to looking at Russia_investigation_origins_counter-narrative#Durham_investigation and Durham special counsel investigation - the walls of text in that one are a big job, so I’ve been putting it off. Long story short - would you consider removing "myriad suspicious" and the three sources? Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 15:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Just looking at my watchlist ( [48], [49]) and seeing what is happening as hard right extremists take over Twitter and other sites in real time (I met Jack Dorsey when he first started the site, he's not a right wing extremist, but Musk, who knows?), and watching the latest Nazi attack on the White House, and wondering about the 60,000 pounds of missing explosives. Does it seem to you (as it does to me) that things are building to a crescendo here in the states? Viriditas ( talk) 09:27, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Viriditas, Trump and his supporters keep telling us who they really are. Violence? Heck yes! Immorality? Yes, let him grab ME by the pussy! The Constitution? Only if it helps me and screws anyone who doesn't like Trump. If the Constitution is in Trump's way, they trash it, just like he does. Nazis and KKK? Good people. It's all so far out that many don't take them seriously, but every time they are given a chance to demonstrate their real intentions, they really go there, no matter how despicable a place it is. Here's pro-Trump podcaster Jesse Kelly:
Let me tell you all an uncomfortable truth: This country needs a dictator,” Kelly tweeted to his nearly 640,000 followers. “As the great John Adams said, a free country only works for a ‘moral people.’ We are not worthy of freedom. A dictator is coming.”
One Twitter user responded, “Weimar problems eventually lead to Weimar solutions,” referencing Germany’s Weimar Republic, that historians say created conditions that led to the rise of Adolf Hitler. Kelly responded simply, “There it is.” [50]
There is literally no place they will not follow Trump. When one thinks he's hit the absolute bottom of the barrel, the lowest common denominator for human foolishness and deception, he just blasts a hole in it and aims for the center of the earth. He defined the standard he wanted of his followers. They should be willing to not change their vote and to keep following him, even if he murdered someone on 5th Avenue. He wanted people with no moral compass, no scruples, no common decency, and he's created them. After that message from him, anyone who didn't abandon him then has no standing in decent society. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Years ago, when I was doing research on the counterculture of the 1960s, particularly the counterculture specific to the US, I came across some archival material (which I cannot recall) which suggested that this time in history was a turning point in education for the country, as a decision was made by conservative political leaders to restrict education to only those who could afford it, thereby reinforcing the status quo and preventing any recrudescence of the student protests and rebellion that they attributed to mass education of the general public post-WWII. In other words, there was a lingering belief that the mass education of American youth during this time led to mass protests demanding social change, which gets at your point above. The powers that be figured this out and began to clamp down on access to education rather than implement social democracy or any kind of reform. Subsequently, higher education was no longer cheap or free and began to increase in price. At least, that's the general theory behind the current state of affairs. More recently, particularly in the post-9/11 era, we've seen an even further restriction of education in the states, this time the overall denigration and defunding of the humanities in favor of STEM fields which primarily support the business and finance sector as foot soldiers of free enterprise. It's not a coincidence that many of the most conservative, anti-democratic Trump supporters in the US are also members of the highest echelons of advanced engineering. STEM without humanities is a pathway to turnkey, technocratic fascism. These are also the same people preaching the wonders of techno-utopian AI adoption that will replace most jobs, while at the same time opposing UBI at the highest political levels. Sadly, education is the least of our problems in the US now, as we are veering towards full inverted totalitarianism at this point. I debate with Trump supporters every day, and there's no kind of education that would ever fix this wipe open chasm. They have a thirsty lust for blood that cannot be fulfilled through ideas alone. They are beyond any kind of education at this point. Viriditas ( talk) 09:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
You also get things like Why Does the Tech Workforce Lean Left?. They're both seeing things from their own perspective of a left-right spectrum. NadVolum ( talk) 22:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
With Floozy Official blocked now, that seems a relief. An odd occurence indeed. I'm slightly concerned about them saying [...] if the past few months have proven anything... nevermind.
: do you think they may have been a sockpuppet then, as their account was created yesterday? That may explain the odd behaviour.
Schminnte (
talk •
contribs)
21:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
This is currently paused as it may be based on some wrong information. Seeking clarity now. |
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From Talk:Durham special counsel investigation#First sentence Let's try to parse this issue raised by DonFB:
Elements to compare and parse:
I'm going to venture that DonFB means "Clinesmith's case" when he writes "this case". So is Clinesmith's case "related to the origins of the FBI investigation"? Let's look at the facts. We're dealing with the "investigation (1) into the investigators (2)", so we end up easily conflating the two investigations. That creates confusion. Are we talking about 1 or 2? 1=Durham and 2=CFH. Chronologically, 2 comes before 1. If you're not confused yet, then kudos to you! Clinesmith can only be related to 1=Durham, as 2=CFH closed before Clinesmith's illegal shortcut alteration of a FISA application. Therefore, "Clinesmith's case", tried and convicted by Durham, was "unrelated" to the CFH investigation, which had already closed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 21:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC) |
Hi! I saw that you reverted and then restored my edit at Homeopathy. No worries about that, I was fully expecting someone to revert it because they didn't notice what I had changed at first :) In my opinion, Template:Multiref is an amazing tool and I wish its use were more widespread. Actualcpscm ( talk) 21:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi again. I noticed you created the page User:Valjean-Fringe theory dk, which I have boldly moved to your user subpage User:Valjean/Fringe theory dk. I've tagged the original page for deletion under U2 and G6. Cheers, Schminnte ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
See: Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory
Biden and Trump performed similar actions, the withholding of financial aid to Ukraine, but for very different reasons.
Then-Vice President Biden withheld loan guarantees to pressure Ukraine into firing a corrupt prosecutor because he was not performing his job of fighting corruption, which included investigating Burisma and its corrupt owner, actions which would have placed Hunter Biden in more jeopardy, if he had been involved in corruption in Ukraine.
Then-President Trump unsuccessfully tried to pressure Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in a quid pro quo manner to start a publicly announced investigation of Burisma and the Bidens in exchange for the release of congressionally mandated financial and military aid to Ukraine and the promise of a Trump–Zelenskyy meeting at the White House. This predicated Trump's first impeachment charge of abuse of power. Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:26, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
Reddit went down at the moment WaPo reported charges against Trump were filed, which was around 21 minutes ago. It’s still not back up and nobody has been able to post reports about it or discuss it. Viriditas ( talk) 00:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Federal prosecution of Donald Trump
Good to see the cited source returned. Technically, the source doesn't say that Reade considered Butina to be her "long time friend," instead Reade just said that Butina was "my friend". Regards, AzureCitizen ( talk) 22:00, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey, I thought you might benefit from some insight into how and why I became a stickler for unsourced DOBs.
Several years ago, I noticed that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Days of the year (DOTY) pages were becoming a complete mess with incorrect and unverifiable info. The project had literally declared the pages exempt from needing sources (yes, really!).
As a result, almost none of the DOTY pages had any sources to back things up, based on the naive (and against Wikipedia policy) belief that all entries would be backed by reliable sources in the linked article. It turns out that was not the case and the DOTY pages were filled with incorrect info and even worse, other places started believing the info there and publishing the incorrect info in newspapers, for example on "Today's date in history" type listings - classic citogenesis.
So about 6 years ago the DOTY project found sanity and we now require all new entries on those pages to be backed by direct reliable sources. Several of us have gone through and started cleaning DOTY pages up. May 11 is an example of where we want to be. For details see the content guideline, the WikiProject Days of the Year style guide or the edit notice on any DOY page.
The DOTY project members have asked participants to go through their birthday page and clean the entries up by adding reliable sources to each entry, or removing entries where reliable sources aren't readily available in the linked article. We've made significant progress, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
In the process of doing this, we've learned that many of the linked articles have no sources for the DOB, like in the case of Maggie Haberman before you fixed it, so many of us are cleaning a little more broadly than just the DOTY articles as we encounter unsourced DOBs.
Cheers! Toddst1 ( talk) 20:41, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
I saw your comment at [53] (someone like that) and found it distasteful; normally I wouldn't say anything but you are fresh off an WP:AE discussion about similar behavior, and you are an experienced and prolific editor. Beccaynr's comment here [54] (be very careful when about talking about the personal characteristics of editors and to avoid suggesting that anyone is a representative for their particular (marginalized or majority) group.) seems apt. Striking that comment might be a good idea. Regards, SmolBrane ( talk) 17:50, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
The "no collusion" phrase and narrative are Trump's lies, unfortunately often repeated by reliable sources. There is no evidence Mueller ever said such a thing. here's some reading for you:
So it's okay to say that Mueller was unable to prove "conspiracy" and "coordination", even though there is some evidence for it, but it's not okay to say that Mueller did not find evidence of "collusion" or that there was "no collusion" between Trump and his campaign with the Russians. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Facts:
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:58, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice. Look at the talk page for a discussion of why the comment is relevant to the article. Thanks. Chamaemelum ( talk) 01:43, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
could you add autigender or autism gender please? ParticularDarling ( talk) 05:59, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
https://www.shoretherapycenter.com/blog/autigender-autism-gender-identity#:~:text=Autigender%20is%20a%20term%20that,be%20separated%20from%20one%20another ParticularDarling ( talk) 18:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Nice username ;)
If you're unaware, Les Mis is touring again in the US; hope you get a chance to see it (I'm guessing again) this time around. Happy almost-Bastille Day! Combefere ★ Talk 17:54, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm a fan of Lea Salonga. After Miss Saigon, she also did Les Mis and was in both the 10th and 25th anniversary concerts. Her version of "On My Own" is by far the most viewed on YouTube. Absolute perfection. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Here's the full 10th Anniversary concert. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:05, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello, could you help me improve this English in this article Kevin Peraza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Peraza — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.219.223.137 ( talk) 17:06, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm convinced of your pro-vaccine bona fides, and I think your !vote in the RfC is right on the money.
I'm also grateful that your comments have prompted me to look for examples of good organization to follow. Right now I'm flipping through the political biographies that have made it to Featured status; I didn't know that John Adams and Vladimir Lenin were both on that list! XOR'easter ( talk) 02:34, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Move to article talk space. |
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The RFC clearly states that there is no consensus to remove "propaganda". Yes, some voters favor "misinformation", however, more favor "propaganda". So why "no"? -- Julius Senegal ( talk) 18:55, 21 July 2023 (UTC) |
There is currently a discussion at
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Jtbobwaysf (
talk)
11:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
You are an absolute left-wing nut job. I suggest you seek therapy relating to your rampant TDS and anti-Fox bent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themanoflaw049 ( talk • contribs) 06:41, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
This is all getting tiresome, so I'm taking the highly unusual step of banning you, Themanoflaw049, from my talk page. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:27, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
You are the one that engaged the edit war with me on 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in New York. I gave a reason for deleting a very poorly-written section and you reverted with no explanation. Give your reason for reversion and we can have a discussion. But as it stands, you are the one engaging in edit warring and you are the one who started it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themanoflaw049 ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
All of this should have been discussed on the article's talk page, rather than here. That's how BRD works. Instead you just decided to keep on attacking me on my own talk page. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:40, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Dusti *Let's talk!* 18:14, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
People sometimes object to article length, but that is rarely a real problem. If they have difficulty downloading the article, it often turns out they just have too many tabs open in their browser, so the problem is on their side. (They should use Firefox.) They shouldn't try to edit the whole article anyway, at least not on a phone. They should edit sections, and no cellphone will object to that.
As long as an article is split into appropriate sections with good headings it will work fine as is. Especially list articles and articles full of nitty gritty important facts are not things people "read" as if they were a narrative or story. They are used to find facts, and the search function is the tool used to "read" them, so splitting the article would be a huge disservice to those trying to find information. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 14:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Hat bizarre personal attack. |
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Sir (or Madam). Several weeks ago, you disagreed with my edits on Joe Biden sexual assault allegation you dug-into my history and made various accusations, including that my ad-hoc checking of the "minor edit" box, <redact personal attack> This is a formal request for you to stay-away from me. I am not on this site often, and to be confronted by you twice in a few weeks is noticeable. <redact personal attack> I thank you in advance for your respect for my wishes. BlueSapphires ( talk) 05:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC) |
I really don’t know where to begin, but some of the gaps are egregious, possibly even misleading. I may update you as time permits for help. Here’s the first glaring example;
Most historians know that Trump first expressed interest in withdrawing from NATO in 1987, when he paid for a full page ad in the NYT, WaPo, and Boston Globe criticizing US foreign policy and promoting Russian talking points which undermined NATO.
The Guardian:
In 1987…Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics…The ex-major recalled: “For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery…“This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time.”…Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advert in the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: “There’s nothing wrong with America’s Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can’t cure.” [55]
Is Trump an unwitting Russian asset? Who knows, but Wikipedia articles are missing a lot of info that connects the dots. Viriditas ( talk) 02:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean
I noticed you deleted a message someone left on my talk page before I was able to read it. I understand it's not AGF but I want to keep the post on my talk page since it's my talk page. I dont really agree with deleting talk page content unless it's really necessary.
Since I dont know, what are the rules, etc for user talk pages? Why did you delete it? The comments the banned user made on the RFK discussion were not deleted? You even said yourself that you prefer to archive messages.
I wish to add it back, unless you explain why it cannot be.
Thank you. Opok2021 ( talk) 21:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
You reverted a respected source on the Israeli TransJordanian conflict. why? 96.81.123.61 ( talk) 16:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Bogus warning. Now that user is blocked. |
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![]() Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. § — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mav214 ( talk • contribs) 17:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC) |
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Did I miss any?Hi, if you have a minute, please review the list of articles below. I am trying to identify our text dealing with the first part of the 7-part plan, i.e., that Trump knew he lost and lied about fraud anyway.
Thanks for any help you can offer. At the moment I'm compiling ideas in my user space using file prefix 111, and am mainly working on what could possibly evolve into a real outline article. But I've an open mind what direction to wander off in.... NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 13:11, 13 July 2022 (UTC) What is a "coup" in the age of Trump?Fuck everything you have usually associated with the word "coup". Get out of that tiny box that only sees a "coup" as a military overthrowal of another person in office. Follow what RS say about THIS situation. Trump tried to "recoup" ("regain something lost or expended") an election he lost by lying about his loss and refusing to relinquish power. He violated the rules of play in the USA and adopted a course of action one has seen in other, usually third world, nations where the one in power stays on after their rightful term of office has expired. What happened here is now being described by RS as a "coup". Start revising your way of thinking, because it no longer applies. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:33, 20 July 2022 (UTC) Check inI'm beyond concerned about current affairs, and I am guessing you might be too. Are you OK though? Feel free to email me if you wanna talk off wiki about.... well, about anything. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 16:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Excuse me for not noticing this context for you starting this thread. WTF? Maybe just deleting or striking the first paragraph of an otherwise serious, useful, and on-topic thread would have been a good faith approach. Disappointed. That edit of yours is concerning. I was fine until now. Sheesh. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:31, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
Downgrade vs deprecateWhile I respect and admire your message, you might want to consider retaining "downgrade" as a 2nd choice in the event that "deprecate" lacks sufficient consensus. Andre 🚐 02:44, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
Types of sources used at Steele dossier articleNot necessarily complete...
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:52, 22 August 2022 (UTC) The simple answerThe simple answer as to why Trump has not (yet) been charged with destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice, witness intimidation/bribery, etc, is that he didn't actually do that stuff, or rather that there's not enough evidence out there to prove it. Mr Ernie ( talk) 20:20, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
LOL! Yes, MastCell, when the limited worldview of Fox News viewers comes to light, it's truly shocking how little they know of what's been happening in Trump world. Statistics from 2012 (below) show that Fox News viewers know less about current affairs than those who see no news at all. Since the advent of the Trump cult bubble, it's gotten much worse. By contrast, people who access NPR and The Daily Show are very well informed. Trump's condemnation of all media that doesn't support his lies, calling them "fake news", and his dissing of fact-checkers, has had a catastrophic effect on his supporters, keeping them in a bubble of very limited information. (See Trump's misuse of the term "fake news".) They literally don't know what's happening outside that bubble. That's why I haven't replied to the comment above. To start to unpack it would be a waste of time. What we have seen and heard from Trump's own mouth, and what all the investigations have found, has been blocked or filtered by Fox News and sources even further to the right. All other news sources, all over the world (all condemned by Trump as "fake news"), have reported these things, but Fox News and most other right-wing sources have not done it. Trump supporters tend to limit their sources to those that fail to cover anything negative about Trump, IOW those he does not condemn, which leaves a very limited group of sources. The result is comments like the above. They see Trump as the victim of a witch hunt, rather than the victim of the rightful exposure of his own narcissism, lies, corruption, and fealty to Russia and money. If any other leading politician behaved as he does, they would be treated in the same way by the media, but he's uniquely bad in every conceivable way. Why should he get a free pass? That's what his supporters want.
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 17:31, 24 August 2022 (UTC) Disambiguation link notification for August 26An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Where the Crawdads Sing, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page American slang. ( Opt-out instructions.) -- DPL bot ( talk) 09:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC) Please don't accuse of whitewashingValjean, I know we are both working in good faith even if we don't always agree. Accusations of whitewashing in edit summaries aren't helpful. Certainly we can both be acting in good faith while disagreeing. Springee ( talk) 17:42, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
A barnstar
Where to start cleaning upHello, Valjean. I see now that the 85 editor managed to get themselves blocked. While that's unfortunate, they've been creating quite a mess behind them and I'm curious where I should start cleaning up behind them. Thanks. BlueNoise ( talk) 07:31, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Big changes, require RFCs
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The Admin's Barnstar |
This editor deserves this barnstar for being so prolific Oleleho ( talk) 12:59, 4 November 2022 (UTC) |
Hi Valjean, I am following up on a BLP sanction action you made against me on Talk:Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory. Review: 1) When answering a topic question about the focus of the article, I explained it was about the "quid pro quo between Biden and the Ukraine." 2) You claimed that characterization was a BLP violation and demanded I modify my claim. 3) When I refused, you deleted my comment and closed the topic with the justification that it was a "BLP vio deleted per policy." Reaction: I am perplexed by your action as the Latin term " quid pro quo" merely indicates an exchange and is definitively not pejorative. Furthermore, I added nothing to characterize it as anything other than an exchange. Whether or not the exchange was criminal is to be determined, but regardless any interaction, criminal or not, can be characterized as quid pro quo. Resolve: Would you be kind enough to cite here the policy you used for the sanction, and if done in error, would you be kind enough to reverse your action. Thank you very much! Lexlex ( talk) 15:47, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Let me get this right. You assert I'm guilty of an "incorrect interpretation of what" [you] "write" but won't explain how I have misinterpreted you, and that this refusal by you is somehow my fault. Is that right? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:18, 10 November 2022 (UTC)
Yes, Gah4, it's an alleged quid pro quo that has been debunked, IOW we should never leave the impression it might be true or even personally think so. It's not just an unconfirmed allegation (like the peetape allegation) where some lingering doubt may be allowable. This is where we can see how Wikipedia-policy-thinking is similar to scientific skepticism, IOW critical thinking that follows the scientific method. We, like scientists, are obligated to follow the evidence/RS. Until we have better evidence, we continue to believe that the theory of gravity is correct. Until we have better sources and more knowledge, we believe that Biden acted appropriately and that the allegation is just part of Trump's counterfactual cover-up efforts.
Tim Minchin has a great beat poem on critical thinking that contains this quote:
Minchin is both funny and deadly serious. He packages some profound truths in that beat poem. It's worth listening to several times. He contrasts scientific/progressive thinking with unscientific/faith/conservative thinking. SNL is comedy and satire, like The Onion, so we expect truth to be mixed with exaggeration and other comedic tricks. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 03:06, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Hello Valjean. Just to let you know, I've removed the informational autocracy section from the Alternative facts article again, and put the information into the informational autocracy article. Perhaps you could take a look. Mucube ( talk) 00:13, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Edits like this are basically pointless or vindictive. We typically allow editors -- even annoying editors who appear to be working their way towards a block -- wide latitude in what they post on their own user/user talk pages. I'm sure you're understandably irritated with that editor's contributions. But I hope you can find the dermal fortitude to let their small outburst roll off of you. Ajpolino ( talk) 20:26, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Well, so much for closing/hatting or sub-sectioning anything. One just keeps getting reverted. GoodDay ( talk) 23:15, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
Val, you've my consent to close/hat or sub-section the discussion-in-question, at Trump's talkpage. GoodDay ( talk) 00:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
My apologies Val. I didn't mean to influence you in anyway. GoodDay ( talk) 00:51, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
GoodDay, sorry about all this happening to you after I encouraged you to hat the section. Also, there was no canvassing here, just a comment about what happened in a situation I knew about. I'll add a comment at the end of the old section. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:18, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Human energy field and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 16#Human energy field until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion.
Steel1943 (
talk)
15:30, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Are you withdrawing your option from the RfC. Did you not intend for it to be considered, in which case I erred in adding it? It's common practice to add alternatives to nascent RfC's and I thought yours had already received some support. If you have withdrawn it, why not consider re-adding? SPECIFICO talk 02:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)
Do you really mean to say that you have sources to establish that the box on which the files were discovered was owned and used by Biden? The box has only been touched by the blind repair guy and the FBI that we know of. SPECIFICO talk 18:49, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
That is not the consensus of RS. Also, whether or not some files on the laptop were not placed there by him does not invalidate the point it was his laptop. That just means its contents may have been corrupted. Such alternative views may exist on some RS, and, if so, we should also mention those views. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 01:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
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Hey, Valjean. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the
Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Chris Troutman ( talk) 16:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC) |
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![]() | Happy First Edit Day! Hi Valjean! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made your first edit and became a Wikipedian! CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 21:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC) |
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No, not this year. I don't want to argue about horrid foods this time. Instead, I wanted to list the 4 food related places I miss most from California.
Merry Christmas and an argumentative New Year! Springee ( talk) 17:07, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
Your revert to my edit on David Duke's page, despite there being overwhelming consensus on Wikipedia that the content you reverted to is not appropriate, is very troubling. I have been threatened with a ban for such behavior, yet you act with impunity. You are moving the goal posts. I was specifically told to go to "biographies of living persons" to establish consensus on this issue. I did so, and the consensus was 100% unanimously opposed to the position you are taking. I am addressing the issue of the statement "convicted felon" in an opening sentence, not just on Duke's page, but on Wikipedia generally. I'm not going to fight tooth and nail against disruptive editors on every single page that includes this language. The topic has been discussed multiple times at "biographies of living persons", as I have linked elsewhere. There exists an overwhelming, practically unanimous consensus on this issue, yet you revert my edit without a second thought because you personally don't like it. That's not appropriate, and any other editor without your history and resume would be either warned about this disruptive behavior or outright threatened with a ban. Follow the advice that you yourself have given me - if you don't like an edit, join the discussion on the relevant talk pages and advocate for your position while explaining why the established consensus is wrong. If reverting an edit that reflects consensus to a previous version that does *not* reflect consensus isn't an example of disruptive editing practices, what is?
Please explain yourself, and refrain from being disruptive until you have thoroughly explained your position on the issue, discussed why you think you're right and everyone else is wrong, and convinced others to adopt your view as the consensus view. Otherwise I'll have to figure out who your "higher ups" are, so to speak, and bring your bad faith and disruptive actions to their attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philomathes2357 ( talk • contribs) 23:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
With regard to this edit, the IP was referring not to Max Blumenthal, but rather to his father Sidney Blumenthal. Despite being related, the two Blumenthals have very different political views on Russia (and presumably much else). Regards, TheTimesAreAChanging ( talk) 00:51, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
Howdy. Wouldn't it be clearer, just to state that you support option three? GoodDay ( talk) 16:57, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
The source is Our Barbara. I know how to reference items but don't you know how to do it? Infactinteresting ( talk) 06:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Valjean,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable
New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
—
Moops ⋠
T⋡
17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
Send New Year cheer by adding {{ subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.
— Moops ⋠ T⋡ 17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Preliminary test |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Original tweets: (Description added)
David Zweig
Original tweets:
David Zweig
|
Yes! Thank you. This is much better than using EL. Twitter is hard to navigate for the occassional user and this page and in this format is the best way for users to find and read the full threads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.251.125.121 ( talk) 14:46, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
While I agree that this is a poor edit [15] I don't actually think there are grounds to remove it. Do you know something which I do not? Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 17:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
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The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar |
Thank you for defending me against sock puppetry accusations Dronebogus ( talk) 01:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC) |
Wikipedia:TalkAbuse, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for
deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:TalkAbuse and please be sure to
sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of
Wikipedia:TalkAbuse during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.
silvia (BlankpopsiclesilviaASHs4) (
inquire within)
12:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
Look here, look at the comment Herostratus makes to you near the beginning, and read it. Carefully. Philomathes2357 ( talk) 06:39, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Philomathes2357, I read it and it's an entirely different situation. Regardless, edit warring is not justified in this situation. This is not a clear BLP violation, therefore you should act collaboratively and discuss, per BLP. Stop posting here and stop discussing this on people's talk pages. Concentrate on the edit-warring noticeboard thread. No one can force you to edit war. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 06:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. I am well aware of the situation but am undecided about the best course of action in the short term. These things often play out on a fairly predictable time line, and I see that another administrator is also paying close attention. Cullen328 ( talk) 07:20, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
Interesting news: Weiser, Benjamin (2023-01-23). "Former Top F.B.I. Official in New York Charged in Money Laundering". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved 2023-01-23. Andre 🚐 17:31, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
involved in some of the FISA stuff about Page (plus Crossfire Hurricane in general)? soibangla ( talk) 18:33, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Yes, during the Trump campaign, Giuliani bragged about getting info from the New York FBI field office, and Trump knew it and used it. The NY FBI did not like Hillary and apparently tried to damage her campaign by aiding Trump. I remember that I was very alarmed at the time.
Many RS covered this: [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]
Rudy then tried to deny it.
This was tied to the "her emails" thing and should be mentioned at Rudy Giuliani and Hillary Clinton email controversy.
He clearly had access there through one or more agents he could talk to. I'm not sure it involved McGonigal. The timing for when he started in New York is crucial.
It was also there that they let Steele's first reports languish for two months. There was some sort of corruption at that office. It's as if all forms of law enforcement in New York is corrupt. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:46, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Long before the dossier, Steele, Bruce Ohr, and possibly Glen Simpson and Nellie Ohr at Fusion GPS were involved with the FBI in its attempts to flip Deripaska. [23] [24] Fusion GPS kept Deripaska as a client, ostensibly to help him get a visa, a convenient way to get close and stay close to him.
Unreliable sources try to conflate that into a connection with the Trump Tower meeting, and we have fringe editors here who slyly push that baseless conspiracy theory. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:59, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Andre, the timing for him working in the New York FBI field office is mentioned here:
Before his retirement in 2018, McGonigal led the WikiLeaks investigation into Chelsea Manning, busted Bill Clinton's national security advisor Sandy Berger for removing classified material from a National Archives reading room, and led the search for a Chinese mole inside the CIA. In 2016, when reports surfaced that Russia had hacked the email system of the Democratic National Committee, McGonigal was serving as chief of the cybercrimes section at FBI headquarters in Washington. In that capacity, he was one of the first officials to learn that a Trump campaign official had bragged that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton, sparking the investigation known as Operation Crossfire Hurricane. Later that year, FBI Director James Comey promoted McGonigal to oversee counterintelligence operations in New York. [25]
User:Mr Ernie, is there anything there that looks improper or dirty? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 21:08, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
Marcy has some interesting observations. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:47, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
In one respect [27] you will leave the world in a better place than it started. Bon courage ( talk) 07:21, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
I've only just gotten to the end of the section on "Sources: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" and have gotten so much out of it. Thank you for putting together this piece of research. Like!
Platonk (
talk)
06:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
For this section.
(after the Mueller Report) Subsequently, the Republican-led U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee issued a report finding that interactions with Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik during the 2016 election by Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort posed a "grave counterintelligence threat". [1]
Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, reacted to the report by writing an article titled "Senate Russia report proves Trump collusion was very real. But do voters care?" He described how "the report reveals how the Trump campaign willingly engaged with Russian operatives implementing the influence effort." [2]
Copied here from elsewhere:
References
Editors should understand how to evaluate sources, and here are some red flags to watch for. Any source that sows doubt about the following proven facts is not a RS:
Let me nail these facts firmly on the front door of Wikipedia:
No editor here should doubt any of the facts mentioned above. Period. Only "fringe editors" [5] doubt them. In these post-truth [6] [7] Trumpian [8] political times, fringe editors often have a strong Trump bias and point of view because they adopt Trump's open animosity toward RS [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] and believe his untruths and the fake news stories that are circulated in his support and attack those he does not like. They live in a closed information bubble and are often ignorant of the facts, thus disqualifying them from editing on politically sensitive topics. AP2 topic bans are usually the best way to deal with them until they show a positive learning curve that demonstrates they are better informed and can vet sources accurately.
Facts are facts, lies are lies, and opinions are not facts. Sources that undermine those facts are the ones that should be removed and deprecated. All editors should know which sources do that and that those sources are often defended by fringe editors here at Wikipedia. The Washington Post and The New York Times are not such sources. -- Valjean ( talk) 19:14, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
References
Mr Ernie, please don't advocate for the "Trump is the victim of a hoax" idea in any way, shape, or form, whether you tie it to the dossier or other aspects of Trump/Russia relations. The dossier is not a "hoax", and Trump is not the victim of a hoax or witch hunt. The suspicions and investigations of Trump and his campaign are all inspired by his own dubious activities.
You wrote: "The "collusion" stuff has always been a hoax grounded firmly in the Steele Dossier." The "hoax" aspect of that comment of yours was improper at Wikipedia and false everywhere.
Here at Wikipedia, advocacy of fringe theories is forbidden activity. It's tendentious and unwikipedian. Keep that in mind. This response to soibangla, which you edit warred over, is a case in point:
Readers who think Wikipedia is biased really only have 2 options. Argue with the editors on the talk page, who aren't going to go against Wikipedia policies, or just ignore these articles and get your info directly from these article subjects. While the former can be somewhat fun for people who like to argue, you'll eventually get sanctioned and lose the privilege to do it. So go with the latter. I don't choose which media I consume based on what Wikipedia says, but by what interests me personally. (18:59, 3 November 2021)
Let's unpack all the meaning packed in that fateful quote, because you are indeed a reader "who thinks Wikipedia is biased".
That was horribly unwikipedian thinking. Why deliberately go with unreliable sources?
Why not agree with RS so there would be no need to argue with other editors? Instead, you violate your own advice all the time and argue with mainstream editors who get their views from the RS you don't like,
So you admit that your preferences are blockable offenses.
It appears that "what interests [you] personally" is what you read on unreliable sources. That's the only way I can interpret what you wrote when compared with your frequent pushing of views found in unreliable sources and conspiracy theories. (At least you're consistent and follow your own beliefs.)
Instead of "ignoring" our articles, you should read them and their sources to learn what is factual. Let your mind be guided by evidence, not by "what interests [you] personally".
After a long edit war with several other editors over that content, you restored it with an alteration:
Readers who think Wikipedia is biased really only have 2 options. Argue with the editors on the talk page, who aren't going to go against Wikipedia policies, or just ignore these articles and get your info directly from these article subjects. Continuing to just complain about reliable sources and article bias isn't productive. (16:52, 4 November 2021)
I guess you realized what part wasn't wise to utter out loud here, but you had already expressed your real disdain for our articles, for RS, and how you favor using unreliable sources. That cat is out of the bag, and we all know it. Please(!!) alter your beliefs, and, even if you don't, don't allow them to affect your discussions and editing, because it's quite evident when you are allowing that to happen. You can still do good work here if you're careful and avoid the political articles.
IIRC, you have been warned several times by several admins that an WP:ARBAP2 topic ban hangs over your head if you continue to do as you are doing now. Some of your comments (like the ones above) violate our Advocacy and Fringe policies, so, if you want to avoid a topic ban or stay here at all, please follow my advice. -- Valjean ( talk) 21:24, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
When approaching an AfD, editors should ignore all problems with the article and ask themselves only ONE question: "Does this pass our General notability guideline (GNG)?" If so, !vote Keep, as that is the ONLY relevant question at an AfD. If the article appears to fail GNG, can it be rescued by finding more RS? Then advocate for that before !voting Delete. All other concerns and problems with the article are covered by WP:PRESERVE.
Fixing and improving, not deleting, is how we roll here, and bogus AfDs violate our "purpose" here, which is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," as long as it's found in RS. Editors who create AfDs for articles that pass GNG should be trouted for undermining the very reason Wikipedia was created. If they do it repeatedly, they should be topic banned from creating AfDs.
Editors who create articles often deal with bogus AfDs from editors who are ignoring/resisting our "purpose" here. They are forgetting that "not censored" is also aimed at what they are doing.
We need a "purpose" policy that can be cited when it's violated. AfDs are often attacks against GNG: Articles that clearly pass GNG are nominated for deletion, and the reason often turns out to be a hodgepodge of dubious arguments that collectively violate our "purpose" and are basically I don't like it. While no editor can be required to create an article or to make an edit, they certainly should be sanctioned if they get in the way of the creation of an article that passes GNG. This kind of extreme (actually very common!) deletionism is wrong. We should aid the creation of articles and content. We're here to build, not destroy.
Our job (purpose here) is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," [1] [2] and editors must not leave or create holes in our coverage.
Editors must not exercise censorship; they must present all significant sides of any controversy and document the opposing points of view, and they must not shield readers from such views. To leave out one side amounts to promoting the other side's POV. Wikipedia should include more information than other encyclopedias, not less. Our goal is to document "the sum total of human knowledge," [1] and censorship seriously undermines that goal.
Because Wikipedia is created through inclusionism, another objection to deletion of content is that deletion "goes against the entire basic premise" of Wikipedia: "Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what we're doing." — Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia. [3] We try to build content, not break it down. Imperfect content is not removed, it is improved. Good faith editors should not be made to feel their work is in vain.
Wikipedia isn't just another encyclopedia. It aims to be exhaustive in an unlimited sense. It should be unlike all others in scope and size. It is the Internet Archive of knowledge. If a piece of knowledge is notable enough (mention in multiple RS), an article should be created for it, or (if only mentioned in one or two RS) it should at least be mentioned in an existing article or list. We need to be super-inclusive. I have an essay which deals with how NPOV deals with biased sources, and it touches on these subjects: NPOV means neutral editing, not neutral content. -- Valjean ( talk) 17:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
References
Quote: "In particular, the goal of the Wikipedia is to produce the best encyclopedia encapsulating the sum total of human knowledge.... [It] offers the possibility of everything being written into history, with all of mankind sharing knowledge and information in a way that enables everyone to profit from it." — Wikipedia:Testimonials
User:Valjean/Essay/WikiPurpose
Copied from User talk:Stiabhna#Fringe beliefs.
I'm trying to save you so you can end up a good editor. Read what follows with that in mind.
Like I wrote above, you are allowed to believe whatever you want, but openly advocating things that are pushed by unreliable sources and are contrary to what reliable sources say places you right in the middle of a " fringe editor" target. On your user page you have written your political beliefs:
You should not be proud that you believe in that trifecta of misinformation. You need to catch up with the facts, so please read the following articles and their sources. :
I hope you will bring your beliefs into line with the facts. Facts matter, and it's important to keep your beliefs up-to-date and always follow the evidence:
Our articles are based on reliable sources, so you can generally trust them to be factual. Please believe them. -- Valjean ( talk) 01:38, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
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Cyberwar: How Russian Hackers and Trolls Helped Elect a President Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 07:38, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
I haven’t had a chance to read this review yet from CJR but I am planning to tomorrow. Have you seen it yet? Mr Ernie ( talk) 00:00, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Kyle Pope is a serious journalist, and he's covered these topics before:
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 02:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
I see that it's all written by Jeff Gerth. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 02:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
He starts off on the wrong foot, and that doesn't bode well: "inquiry into whether Donald Trump was colluding with Russia". Mueller made clear he was interested in "conspiracy" and "coordination", not "collusion". This is carelessness. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 05:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
By 2016, as Trump’s political viability grew and he voiced admiration for Russia’s “strong leader,” Clinton and her campaign would secretly sponsor and publicly promote an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that there was a secret alliance between Trump and Russia(emphasis mine - btw where's our Wikipedia article on that conspiracy theory?). We all well know how the Clinton campaign would also go on to indirectly fund a misinformation dossier put together by a foreign ex-spy and some shady Russian players. It's also impressive how impactful Simpson and his contacts were. Mr Ernie ( talk) 15:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
Helson testified that Danchenko's reports as a confidential informant were used by the FBI in 25 investigations and 40 intelligence reports during a nearly four-year period from March 2017 to October 2020.... Danchenko, the FBI agent said, was considered 'a model' informant and 'reshaped the way the U.S. even perceives threats.' Helson said that none of his previous informants had ever had as many sub-sources as Danchenko and that others at the FBI have continued to ask in recent months for Danchenko's assistance amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine. [2]
It's interesting that the introduction is written by Pope, a strong critic of the dossier. I have used a couple of the links above to bolster that criticism in the Steele dossier article (edit summary: "Pope and CJR's initial support of BuzzFeed's decision and Pope's later reversal"):
BuzzFeed's decision to publish the dossier was immediately criticized by many major media sources, among them The Guardian, The Washington Post, and The New York Times. [3] Although the Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) had originally (January 11, 2017) backed BuzzFeed's publication of the dossier, [3] and editor Kyle Pope had tweeted his support of that decision, [4] he later (November 17, 2021) described it as "a document that was never designed to meet the standards of good journalism", noting that its credibility had collapsed, and concluding that it was the source of "a lot of nonsense and misdirection" in subsequent media coverage and should not have been published at all. [5]
Mr Ernie, as a strong critic of the dossier (kudos for that), I'd be interested in you presenting here the tidbits you find in this CJR coverage. Some of them might be useful in the article, even though we already have a huge amount of criticism in the article. These opinions are still important in light of history. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
References
We defend BuzzFeed's decision to publish
From Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections#Columbia Journalism Review
References
Gerth "missed the point" and bolstered "Trump's phony narrative...Ultimately Gerth does a disservice by failing to cast Russiagate accurately. Putin's attack succeeded, with help from Trump and his crew. That has always been the big story."
His former colleagues are said to be seething with fury at him...because Gerth has betrayed basic journalistic standards....Gerth is perpetuating the coverup....[Trump] helped an adversary sabotage an American election.
This is a triumph of spin.... Yes, some of the reporting, as you would expect of a sprawling investigation, was wrong. And some expectations of where the scandal would go from opinion journalists were wrong, too...Still, the investigation produced extensive evidence of misconduct....In the main, the broad suspicion of the investigation — that Trump's pattern of oddly Russophilic statements might be explained by some hidden partnership — proved to be correct.
I wish I knew why the Columbia Journalism Review published such an unfortunate piece on such an important issue: "Misdirection, an essential tool for magicians, is not usually a component of media criticism. But in a lengthy critique of the coverage of the Trump-Russia scandal published this week by the Columbia Journalism Review, veteran investigative reporter Jeff Gerth deflects attention from the core components of Russiagate, mirroring Donald Trump's own efforts of the past six years to escape accountability for his profound betrayal of the nation.
As Corn puts it: 'With this confab, Team Trump signaled to Moscow that it was willing to accept Putin's covert assistance. It did not report to the FBI or anyone else that the Kremlin was aiming to intervene in the election. This may not have been collusion; it was complicity.'
Gerth has shown that the press, and especially the Times, was not as careful as it should have been in reporting on Russia Russia Russia. And yes, details matter. But the notion that Trump was a victim of bad reporting with regard to Russia is just nonsense. In the end, Gerth has produced a report that's all trees, no forest.
Check it out... arbcom changed the template to use to notify of what used to be called discretionary sanctions. (reg. [33]) Andre 🚐 04:00, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
Some thoughts.....
WP:RSP and fact-checking are similar because they both target the often tiny fraction of content that raises doubts and suspicions of inaccuracy. Sources and statements that are always right and raise no objections are left out. We rightly hope that all sources and commentators are truthful all the time, and we judge them harshly for any deviance.
Since POV will vary, a good source may be accused of inaccuracy by fringe editors who don't know the facts (or are POV warriors), so even the best of sources end up at WP:RSP.
When a source is not listed at WP:RSP, it usually means it is not very notable or is never controversial. It's usually a good source. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:34, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Valjean/Why Crossfire Hurricane?
Here is the lead:
Why did the FBI open the Crossfire Hurricane investigation (CH)? There were a number of factors, and a growing "confluence of events", that together "created a counterintelligence concern that the FBI was 'obligated' to investigate'". The FBI was forced by the apparent Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections to investigate "whether anyone associated with the Trump campaign was assisting Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 election".
The Crossfire Hurricane team included a "Supervisory Intelligence Analyst" (SIA), and I wondered how much could be found in just this source:
- United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary, Interview of Supervisory Intelligence Analyst. Thursday, October 29, 2020. [1]
This interview occurred under the 116th United States Congress, and so was a Republican majority committee. The Mueller report and Inspector General report on the Crossfire Hurricane investigation are also mentioned by that source.
This personal essay is an experiment (by using only one primary source) and contains my opinions in the #Summary and #Conclusion. I have no doubt made some errors and would appreciate civil comments, corrections, and sources at User talk:Valjean. Uncontroversial and truly minor fixes are allowed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 23:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
That essay contains egregious BLP violations. I am tempted to nominate it for deletion. Are you intending to put that in main space? What is the point of the essay except to use Wikipedia to host your unsourced theories? See WP:NOTESSAY. Mr Ernie ( talk) 13:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Okay, Mr Ernie, now I have looked at the private essay and see you have redacted "Trump helped an enemy nation and its military intelligence agency (GRU) undermine the elections and national security of his own country. Whether or not he "conspired" is rather irrelevant to the fact that he actually did betray his own country." and Trump "adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort" and "it appears that Trump aided an enemy's military in their acts of war." Are you redacting that because it isn't directly sourced, or because you don't realize that's what he did? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:39, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
I can easily source and attribute the opinion that Trump may be a traitor guilty of treason. It hinges on whether cyberwarfare is war. ("If we updated our definitions of war to include cyberwar"):
Those sources are good enough for attributed opinions in a private essay. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
Okay, I have now tweaked and sourced that content to meet your BLP objections. What is to others a "sky is blue" situation is for the Trump fringe crowd rather murky. You really should get better informed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Out of the Shadows: The Man Behind the Steele Dossier, an ABC News documentary with George Stephanopoulos and Christopher Steele.
On October 18, 2021, this ABC News documentary aired on Hulu. It is a legitimate primary reliable source that contains content usable at the Steele dossier and Christopher Steele articles. That which is primarily about Steele would only be used at his biographical article, while some other content may be used at both articles. While most content should be sourced to secondary reliable sources which comment on the documentary, our rules for the use of primary sources allow the careful use of the documentary for some details. I suspect the right place for some of the content would be in the "Legacy" section (maybe after changing it to "Legacy and later developments"), possibly as a subsection for the documentary. We'll see out it works out, as the topic dictates the location. It may end up being nothing. The documentary revealed little real news of consequence, but it does reveal info about methods, motivations, attitudes and consequences.
I am starting a list of RS for possible use. -- Valjean ( talk) 15:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
The four pillars
In defending his work, Steele describes his intelligence reports as resting on "four pillars" of information that he believes have held up over time as accurate.
"One was, there was a large-scale Russian interference campaign in the American election in 2016," he said.
"The second was that this had been authorized and ordered at the highest levels, including Putin," he said.
"The third had been that the objective of this was to damage Hillary Clinton and to try and get this rather unorthodox candidate, Donald Trump, elected," Steele said. "And the fourth was, there was evidence of collusion between people around Trump and the Russians." [2]
While the tape itself has never been revealed, Steele said he thinks it “probably does (exist), but I wouldn't put 100% certainty on it.”
When asked why Russia has never released said tape, Steele said: "Well, it hasn't needed to be released. I think the Russians felt they'd got pretty good value out of Donald Trump when he was president of the U.S." ...
Steele said Mueller's overall report reinforced the contents of his dossier.
“There was a wholesale campaign that was organized by the leadership in Russia, that its aim was to get Donald Trump elected,” he said. “And there was a lot of evidence of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians, which they didn't report on and didn't admit, and in fact lied about.” ...
When asked why Cohen would not admit to the alleged meeting despite already being convicted of other crimes, Steele replied: "I think it's so incriminating and demeaning. … And the other reason is he might be scared of the consequences." [7]
A major objection to the golden showers allegation has been that some of the reports alluded to by Danchenko, who apparently didn't have the best sources for this info, came from "word of mouth and hearsay" "conversations with friends over beers" (IG Report). So be it, but people and RS often ignore that some of the seven sources were within Trump's own orbit (Millian and Cohen took it seriously) and workers at the hotel, not hookers and people joking in Moscow bars.
It's a BS objection, because how else would any normal person talk about such a sticky, dripping, allegation? Of course, they'll make Trump the butt of jokes. When Moscow (and Saint Petersberg) hookers told of how their colleagues were involved in the incident, those rumors spread in the hooker community, and people always make such a topic into a joke and scorn. That doesn't mean the allegation isn't true. It's pretty much the only way such an incident would become known.
So is it true? We don't know for sure, but it fits with Trump's character (he's known for sexual escapades and acts of hatred) and his own history with urolagnia (liking the sight of peeing). He liked it in Las Vegas, shortly before going to Moscow. Also, his own hatred of Obama is well-known, and it's entirely in character for Trump to come up with the idea of defiling that bed because of Obama.
The Mueller Report contains a footnote that suggests that Trump may have heard that Russia had incriminating tapes of his behavior. On October 30, 2016, Michael Cohen had received a text from Giorgi Rtskhiladze reporting that he had successfully stopped the "flow of tapes from Russia". Rtskhiladze told investigators that these were compromising tapes of Trump, and Cohen told investigators he had spoken to Trump about the issue. Rtskhiladze later told investigators "he was told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen". [11]
So Cohen did his job as fixer. He knew what Trump was capable of doing and took the rumor seriously, treating it as a real risk. He began to investigate, using his friend Rtskhiladze, who then started researching the matter. He also treated it as a real risk. We don't know how much back-and-forth correspondence there was between them; we only get one side, but there was obviously previous contact. After a while, Rtskhiladze reported back to Cohen with the good news that he had "stopped the flow of tapes". They believed there was a risk, enough to try to avert exposure. That was part of Cohen's job as Trump's "fixer".
So whether it occurred or not, there was enough risk that Trump had done such a thing that Cohen treated it as real. Innocent people don't do this. Millian was also one of the sources for the pee tape allegation, and he was inside the Trump campaign. These actions lend much weight to the evidence that the incident may have happened as alleged. It remains one of the many unproven claims, but one that is likely true.
Steele still allows that the pee tape allegation may not be true. This has always been his view, often expressed as a 50-50 likelihood. Steele's partner at Orbis, Chris Burrows, as well as Steele's wife, tried to talk him out of including it, but Steele followed standard MI6 practice, which is to include everything from all sources in your original notes. Later it gets checked for accuracy, and a final report might not include it. BuzzFeed short-circuited this process by publishing the unfinished notes without permission. The fault is BuzzFeed's, not Steele's. Steele knew that Putin's FSB often included sex tapes in their kompromat, so he couldn't ignore the reports. (I don't know if Steele also factored in Trump's personality and thus the likelihood of such actions. No one who knows Trump would be surprised if this turned out to be true.)
Regarding sources, Steele shares the exact same view as the FBI, revealed in the IG Report, that when a source is exposed, they get scared and try to minimize their involvement. The "confidential source will often take fright and try and downplay and underestimate what they've said and done". (Steele) That's also what the FBI previously told Horowitz. Both Danchenko and Millian did that, and Steele agrees with the FBI. Those who accuse Steele of faulty logic should accuse the FBI, but I doubt they know better than the FBI.
Steele wrote 17 memos which are now known as the "Steele dossier". He doesn't like the term "dossier" "because it wasn't a dossier. It's a series of reports on a live issue, the election campaign, running through time. These reports were not collated and presented in one offering, nor were they analyzed in detail by us. Effectively, it was a running commentary. It wasn't a dossier."
Steele still believes that "the evidence suggests that" "Donald Trump was colluding with the Russians".
References
OIG_12/9/2019
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Kessler_4/24/2019
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Always been a curious thing this. Relatively speaking, the Mail's complete and total ban was achieved here very easily, yet achieving the same outcome for Fox seems to still be far out of reach. The Mail being seen here as equivalent to Infowars is now evidently uncontroversial. The idea that the Mail routinely knowingly publishes falsehoods for profit, similarly uncontroversial. Yet to say these things about Fox? Still apparently controversial. My personal view is that the Mail ban is an absurdity, and needs to be revisited. But I already know Wikipedia is, for whatever reason, going to cling onto it until the bitter end. Every year that Fox is seen differently to the Mail here, seems to be a nail in the coffin of its credibility. If it ever even had any. Bandorrr ( talk) 11:47, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm very much agreeable with whatever you & others can iron out, concerning your current proposals for Donald Trump's page. GoodDay ( talk) 21:26, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
User:Valjean/Sources for Dominion vs Fox News scandal
Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News Corporation or something like that.
In December 2020 and January 2021, Fox News, Fox Business, Newsmax, and the American Thinker withdrew allegations they had reported about Dominion and Smartmatic after one or both companies threatened legal action for defamation. [1] [2] [3] [4] In January 2021, Dominion filed defamation lawsuits against former Trump campaign lawyers Sidney Powell and Rudy Giuliani, seeking $1.3 billion in damages from each. [5] [6] After Dominion filed its lawsuit against Powell, One America News Network (OANN) removed all references to Dominion and Smartmatic from its website, though without issuing public retractions. [7] [8] During subsequent months, Dominion filed suits seeking $1.6 billion in damages from each of Fox News, Newsmax, OANN and former Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne, [9] while also suing Mike Lindell and his corporation, MyPillow.
Despite motions by the defendants to dismiss the lawsuits, judges ruled that the cases against Fox News, Lindell, and MyPillow could proceed. [10] [11]
On 16 February 2023, Dominion Voting Systems filed a motion for summary judgment against Fox News, with dozens of internal communications, [12] sent during the months after the 2020 presidential election, showing several prominent network hosts and senior executives—including chairman Murdoch and CEO Suzanne Scott—discussing their knowledge that the election fraud allegations they were reporting were false. The communications showed the network was concerned that not reporting the falsehoods would alienate viewers and cause them to switch to rival conservative networks, impacting corporate profitability. [13]
References
{{
cite news}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)
The same policies and guidelines apply to all submissions, whether or not you drafted them first on your personal computer. The edit will look the same regardless. One issue to note, should you just do a plain installation, is that all of the templates and modules from English Wikipedia won't be available. isaacl ( talk) 21:57, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
...look at the meanings of the Denmark and Danish Realm articles. Georgia guy ( talk) 17:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your help doing basic tidy-up at Meek's article, I did have a question though because while we say something like "You can't use the daily mail to reference his divorce because it often doesn't fact-check itself", we have the issue where his divorce filing is a public record available online and it's obviously true - so it's true, and it's notable because it's been reported in the media, but the media in which it's reported is considered to sometimes tell untruths...I'm hitting an impasse on that issue (while trying to avoid using the Daily Mail since somebody showed me the link suggesting against it; I don't have a problem with the DM myself but almost all the facts can be sourced to other publications) - which also raises a second question. If I say "John Smith once dated Jane Doe", is it better if I put 2-3 citations for a fact, or better to only use one? Not sure if I'm "overdoing" it or "underdoing" it sometimes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LauraIngallsEvenWilder ( talk • contribs) 20:32, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
...for keeping an eye on articles, and insisting that content that is added be sourced, including at the Lars van Trier page. It is refreshing to see editors that still show consistent care in keeping with WP:VERIFY, and other foundational principles. Kudos. An educator. 2601:246:C700:F5:989F:41EB:E351:AFD6 ( talk) 07:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
I've replied at Talk:Luc_Montagnier#February_2023 -- Mick2 ( talk) 21:00, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
Trump–Russia relations |
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To understand the Trump–Russia crime scene, ask the following question and focus on the second part, because the first is proven:
We know that Mueller was not able to prove "conspiracy" and "coordination" beyond a shadow of a doubt, possibly because of all the obstruction, destruction of evidence, and secret communication using burner phones and other devices that leave no trace. Mueller did prove that such devious means of communication were used.
Here is something incredible we also know. Mueller definitely "did not make a 'traditional prosecutorial judgment' on whether Trump broke the law." [1] [2]
Conspiracy is a crime that is very hard to prove. A crime itself may be easy to prove, but to prove that the participants actually conspired to commit the crime, one must pass a very high bar of evidence. Finding a formal written or oral agreement of "you do this and I'll do that" to commit the crime is often impossible, and it may never have existed as a formal agreement, even though the participants planned their actions.
The report also detailed multiple acts of potential obstruction of justice by Trump, but did not make a "traditional prosecutorial judgment" on whether Trump broke the law, suggesting that Congress should make such a determination. [1] [2] Investigators decided they could not "apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes" as an Office of Legal Counsel opinion stated that a sitting president could not be indicted, [3] and investigators would not accuse him of a crime when he cannot clear his name in court. [4] The report concluded that Congress, having the authority to take action against a president for wrongdoing, "may apply the obstruction laws". [3] The House of Representatives subsequently launched an impeachment inquiry following the Trump–Ukraine scandal, but did not pursue an article of impeachment related to the Mueller investigation. [5] [6]
Notice these words: "Investigators decided they could not "apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes." IOW, they already decided from the start that investigators were NOT allowed to find Trump guilty of a crime, so they focused on a crime that is nearly impossible to prove, and they succeeded in their goal of NOT proving such a crime.
If any crime was committed, the participants were allowed to go free because it was not proven they "conspired" to commit the crime. I don't know of any court of law that operates this way. Bank robbers do get convicted, as the crime itself is the important thing, not whether they "conspired" to rob the bank. In spite of this, many were indeed prosecuted and convicted. Then Trump pardoned many of them.
Mueller definitely "did not make a 'traditional prosecutorial judgment' on whether Trump broke the law." He chose to attempt to prove the unprovable (conspiracy) and succeeded in not proving it. Job well done.
Apologists for Russia and so-called "Russiagate" revisionists forget about the collusion and unpatriotic acts by Trump and his campaign and go so far as to deny Russian interference. That is factually and patriotically wrong.
A conspiracy was not proven, but Mueller had chosen not to focus on all the collusion he found in the process of the investigation. They found plenty of that, but most of it was not a crime, just terribly unpatriotic. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 04:49, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
References
The redirect
Midyear Exam has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 15 § Midyear Exam until a consensus is reached.
Steel1943 (
talk)
18:00, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Valjean, You recently opened a talk page discussion in this edit. Fifteen hours later you edited the lede of the article, and shortly thereafter hatted/closed the discussion. The compressed time frame, obscuration of the discussion, and the rapid fire edits you have been making since then are counterproductive. Also concerning is that you are flooding the article with quotes from poor quality sources such as Buzzfeed and The Skeptic's Dictionary, both yellow at WP:RSP. Cedar777 ( talk) 23:22, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
Needs better sourcing. From Twitter Files.
On March 9, 2023, Matt Taibbi summarized his Testimony on the "Censorship-Industrial Complex" to the U.S. House Judiciary Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government as Twitter Files #18. [1] Michael Shellenberger also summarized his Testimony on Twitter and included his testimony as a link in the Twitter thread. [2]
References
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Three years! |
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-- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:09, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Re: Special:Diff/1146398416. Please tone it down. Being asked to use appropriate terminology is not assault. You've already been made aware once of the heightened expectations of editorial conduct in this topic area. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 17:27, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. The thread is Valjean. Thank you. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 18:30, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean, I appreciate your clear and active interest in learning more about this topic area, and I added a possible resource to your developing list of resources. In the meantime, I am wondering if you would consider striking the comments I identified in my statement at the pending AE request as potentially disruptive or battleground, to help bring the temperature down in this dispute.
As general background, I often favor a restorative justice approach to on-wiki conflict, which is part of why I think actively addressing some of your past statements could be beneficial, but it is because you have been so engaged in openness to learning, seeking feedback, and making apology that this seems like an idea to suggest for your consideration. Thank you, Beccaynr ( talk) 15:04, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
I have never used the service before so I am unsure whether my responses are actually reaching you. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 19:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
Woulda thought ".org/hatewatch" is a .... little selective and slanted? Never mind. No worries. Kieronoldham ( talk) 00:55, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi, please see WP:PGBOLD, which says: “ Bold editors of policy and guideline pages are strongly encouraged to follow WP:1RR or WP:0RR standards. Editing a policy to support your own argument in an active discussion may be seen as gaming the system, especially if you do not disclose your involvement in the argument when making the edits.”
You’ve made two edits to a guideline today, in the middle of a content dispute which you did not disclose, while also ignoring a discussion I started at the guideline’s talk page. I reverted both edits to the guideline because I disagree with them, and I do not believe either one merely clarified what is already implied by the guideline. Please be more careful. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 23:59, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
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I think we could resolve some of the problems mentioned in the previous section by zooming out, taking a broader view of the topic, and then revamping the whole section. Mashing several topics under one heading often creates problems, so let's stop doing it. Here's the current situation: Controversial subjects (Shortcut: WP:SNPOV)
Considerations:
Accordingly, we should revise and develop the "Controversial subjects" section so it looks something like this (in alphabetical order):
Controversial subjects (Shortcuts:
WP:CSNPOV /
More thoughts:
What think ye? -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 17:11, 11 April 2023 (UTC) Template: {{WP:ACDST}}
Note that the ap and tpm topic codes are interchangeable. tpm is preferred. |
You said about Assange "He is a known fabricator of false information". What in particular are you thinking about thanks? NadVolum ( talk) 22:56, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
NV, read the section "WikiLeaks statements". A dead man cannot continue to deliver info. Assange also knew he was dealing with Guccifer 2.0, already known to be a Russian source. Assange shares Putin's hatred of Clinton. He is a political activist who is far from neutral and will use unethical methods to serve his own purposes. He is clearly on the Russian side of the equation, just like Greenwald, Taibbi, and Trump supporters. They all support fascism and despise democracy. In April 2017, Trump-appointed CIA director Mike Pompeo called WikiLeaks "a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia". [1] I doubt Trump was happy with that statement, but Pompeo had the real information which Trump tried to suppress. Pompeo knew that Russia, not Ukraine, China, Iran, or the Clinton campaign, was behind the hacking of the DNC and influence campaign against Clinton and for him. He knew that Putin was his ally and supporter, and he liked that. Even without the kompromat, he would have sided with Putin over America. That's because he political ethics are tied to money, not patriotism. Never before has America had a stooge of its greatest enemy in the White House. OTOH, that there was more pressure on Assange made Trump's offer of a pardon in August 2017 more appealing to Assange. Trump is an expert at the carrot and stick game. He threatens and then offers favors for loyalty. That's one of his major tricks for compromising those around him: "You are in trouble and have a serious problem, and I can save you if you will be loyal to me."
Anyone who shares their hatred of Hillary Clinton is suspect because they have bought into the conspiracy theories against her. 95% of the negative stuff about her is false and has its root in the old lies spread about her and her husband. She was clearly the most qualified candidate for the presidency, and yet a significant minority of Americans (but not a majority of the voters) voted against her because they believed the Russian propaganda against her, and Assange is a major player in that endeavor. Putin hates her because she is so strongly for democracy and against fascism, knows Putin like the back of her hand, knows that he can never manipulate her because he doesn't have any serious kompromat against her, and he knows she would have been a strong defender of American interests. Trump failed on all counts. He was is still #PutinsPuppet. --
Valjean (
talk) (
PING me)
14:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
From Murder of Seth Rich#WikiLeaks statements:
Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, fueled the speculation in an interview with Nieuwsuur published on August 9, 2016, which touched on the topic of risks faced by WikiLeaks' sources. [2] Unbidden, Assange brought up the case of Seth Rich. When asked directly whether Rich was a source, Assange said "we don't comment on who our sources are". [3] Subsequent statements by WikiLeaks emphasized that the organization was not naming Rich as a source, as they do with other leaks. [4]
According to the Mueller Report, WikiLeaks had received an email containing an encrypted file named "wk dnc link I .txt.gpg" from the Guccifer 2.0 GRU persona on July 14, which was four days after Seth Rich died. [5] [6] [7] In April 2018, Twitter direct messages revealed that even as Assange was suggesting publicly that WikiLeaks had obtained emails from Seth Rich, Assange was trying to obtain more emails from Guccifer 2.0, who was at the time already suspected of being linked to Russian intelligence. [8] BuzzFeed described the messages as "the starkest proof yet that Assange knew a likely Russian government hacker had the Democrat leaks he wanted. And they reveal the deliberate bad faith with which Assange fed the groundless claims that Rich was his source, even as he knew the documents' origin." [8] Mike Gottlieb, a lawyer for Rich's brother, noted that WikiLeaks received the file of stolen documents from the Russian hackers on July 14, four days after Rich was shot. Gottlieb described the chronology as "damning". [9]
References
I saw your comment that tagged me and said I did improper editorializing. The reason I included that comment was because it was originally from the start of the quoted paragraph. Your diff My diff Source
Yet journalists are quick to defend anyone who uncovers and disseminates information, as long as it’s genuine, by whatever means and with whatever motives. Julian Assange is possibly a criminal. He certainly intervened in the 2016 election, allegedly with Russian help, to damage the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. But top newspaper editors have insisted that what Assange does is protected by the First Amendment, and the Committee to Protect Journalists has protested the charges against him.
The connection seemed clear so I wanted to include it especially since other editors think Im antiAssange. I didnt know if you saw that part of the text and wanted to know if you still thought it was POV editorializing.
Im not here to argue I just want to understand and learn from my mistakes because I was trying here to do the NPOV thing and if I went too far or misunderstood I want to understand so Im just here to double check
Thank you anyway Softlemonades ( talk) 13:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
omment was improper POV editorializing added by User:Softlemonadesand wanted to know if I was going way too far or misunderstood something and I trust your judgment even if we disagree Softlemonades ( talk) 14:22, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian influence campaign and very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort[35] Softlemonades ( talk) 23:14, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Mueller's investigation was an aborted, crippled, and bungled attempt to deal with an issue made impossible by Trump's corruption of the justice department, intelligence agencies, and his open obstruction of all investigations. The Senate Intelligence Committee went further and made some stronger conclusions. See Senate Intelligence Committee report on Russian interference in the 2016 United States presidential election. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 23:56, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Just saving this here...
Ask yourself a few questions:
Those are all dangerous things for any newbie to do. Start by assuming good faith that articles are written by editors who use good sources to write good content. If you disagree with any of those things, then assume you are on the wrong side of history, do not understand the issues, do not know how to vet sources for reliability, have been getting my info from bad sources, and don't know Wikipedia's policies and guidelines well enough to do much more than completely neutral and minor copy editing yet. Start by assuming you are likely wrong and then seek clarification from other editors without arguing with them. Believe their explanations because they are likely correct. Seriously. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 16:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
FYI: You mentioned in BLPN about not having exact ages. This report notes DOBs, however, it would not be acceptable for use as there is no clue who uploaded it. Still, I don't have any reason to doubt its authenticity. - Location ( talk) 21:39, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
This whole Lauren and Jayson Boebert romance reminds me of my young days. My first serious girlfriend was 16 when I was 18. The age of consent was 16. She was far beyond me in experience, and she wrapped me around her finger. She came to my parties and enjoyed the sex, drugs, and rock 'n roll, etc. She set her sights on me and proceeded to seduce me, dropping her boyfriend in the process. She caught me totally off guard. I was really naive. She got drunk and told her boyfriend to just go home and she would have me drive her home when she was more sober. Once out the door, she plied her tradecraft expertly. This was already after an afternoon where some of us went skinny dipping in a neighbor's pool. She was already pretty handsy under the water then. That late evening turned romantic, sexy, and then a bit tragic, as after midnight she got strong stomach pains, then passed a black mass. We saved it and drove to the ER. It was what was left after an abortion. As I said, she was much more experienced. We were together for a year, then she left me for a guy with a massively huge dick. We had been playing strip poker on my waterbed and she got an eye for him. Later, after a botched marriage and a child, she stopped me on the street and apologized and said she had given up a good thing. That was nice of her. Life was interesting, to say the least. She was a real wild child.
Here are some of the songs that remind me most of those days: " Summer of '69" [36], " A Whiter Shade of Pale" [37], " Hotel California" [38], " Comfortably Numb" [39], " All Along the Watchtower" [40], " Born to Be Wild" [41], " Black Magic Woman" [42], " Soul Kitchen" [43], " Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress" [44], " Season of the Witch" [45], " Mellow Yellow" [46] -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 00:11, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Hm?. -- Jayron 32 17:29, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Jayron32, I agree that personal preferences and political opinions should not factor into a close, and you do it right. My complaint is with the general history of how we have treated Fox News. We treat Fox and Trump differently, preferentially, much better than other sources, and that's contrary to policy. We shouldn't play favorites. We should not make exceptions for bad behavior and allow sites like Fox to get away with it because they are so popular, as clearly expressed in this excellent analysis:
The phrases "That's the main reason I've opposed multiple past efforts to downgrade Fox" and "cost-benefit analysis" really horrify me. If those are really the reasons for some editors to !vote as they have, then we have a problem, because, just like with NPOV (editors' opinions should not be added to the content we create), editorial favoritism and opinion is given primacy over how we should neutrally apply policy, and Fox and Trump have been given preferential treatment.
In a discussion of the Trump exemption with an editor who consistently defends Trump and Fox in an improper manner, I mention how they apply IAR for Trump: "You are the one who linked to IAR in your rely. WP:Common sense redirects to IAR. Maybe you didn't realize that? You should nominate that redirect for deletion as well, because it is not common sense to IAR in relation to Trump. Your use creates an exemption for him not given to others."
My point is that we have always IAR in relation to Teflon Don Trump and Fox News, and I see that as problematic. It's time that stopped, and in this latest RfC, I see that a couple editors who normally protect Fox News have actually moved, but some of the usual suspects do not. There is literally nothing Fox can do wrong which will move them. Look at the editing patterns of those who defend Fox in the RfC. You will see extreme protectionism of Fox and Trump, a type of protectionism that causes them to ride roughshod over multiple PAG, create disruption, and block progress in the same topic areas usually lied about by Fox and Trump.
We need to create a policy or guideline that deals with protectionism as violations of NOTCENSORED, NPOV, and PUBLIGFIGURE. PAG and RS take primacy over editors' personal opinions. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:38, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
When did the existence of Crossfire Hurricane first become publicly known? In 2017, right? I think this should be noted in the article. soibangla ( talk) 02:09, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
A cool template:
{{subst:Please see|link}}
You are invited to join the discussion at
link.
Valjean (
talk) (
PING me) 16:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Valjean (
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PING me)
16:46, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Look at the vain attempts at spinning this [47] Andre 🚐 00:57, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
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I noticed that the below (the reference links are included on the articles) keeps getting removed from Propaganda in China and Censorship of Wikipedia. Any thoughts?
HertzUranus ( talk) 19:10, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean, you recently added two adjectives, myriad and suspicious, to the Donald Trump page, with three cites supporting those two words, a total of over 900 bytes for two additional words. We still have the size problem, and, considering the various ongoing investigations and lawsuits, it’s going to get bigger. (The Guardian article on Steele is dated and would probably be less positive now.) The first paragraph of the section says that CIA, FBI, and NSA were investigating the links — that says "suspicious" in big neon letters. And "myriad" is a bit too hyperbolic. We have two RS supporting our sentence that the links between Trump associates and Russia were widely reported in 2017. That the Durham investigation would face-plant was to be expected. IMO, it doesn’t add to or contradict anything that we mention at Donald Trump. I’ll get around to looking at Russia_investigation_origins_counter-narrative#Durham_investigation and Durham special counsel investigation - the walls of text in that one are a big job, so I’ve been putting it off. Long story short - would you consider removing "myriad suspicious" and the three sources? Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 15:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Just looking at my watchlist ( [48], [49]) and seeing what is happening as hard right extremists take over Twitter and other sites in real time (I met Jack Dorsey when he first started the site, he's not a right wing extremist, but Musk, who knows?), and watching the latest Nazi attack on the White House, and wondering about the 60,000 pounds of missing explosives. Does it seem to you (as it does to me) that things are building to a crescendo here in the states? Viriditas ( talk) 09:27, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Viriditas, Trump and his supporters keep telling us who they really are. Violence? Heck yes! Immorality? Yes, let him grab ME by the pussy! The Constitution? Only if it helps me and screws anyone who doesn't like Trump. If the Constitution is in Trump's way, they trash it, just like he does. Nazis and KKK? Good people. It's all so far out that many don't take them seriously, but every time they are given a chance to demonstrate their real intentions, they really go there, no matter how despicable a place it is. Here's pro-Trump podcaster Jesse Kelly:
Let me tell you all an uncomfortable truth: This country needs a dictator,” Kelly tweeted to his nearly 640,000 followers. “As the great John Adams said, a free country only works for a ‘moral people.’ We are not worthy of freedom. A dictator is coming.”
One Twitter user responded, “Weimar problems eventually lead to Weimar solutions,” referencing Germany’s Weimar Republic, that historians say created conditions that led to the rise of Adolf Hitler. Kelly responded simply, “There it is.” [50]
There is literally no place they will not follow Trump. When one thinks he's hit the absolute bottom of the barrel, the lowest common denominator for human foolishness and deception, he just blasts a hole in it and aims for the center of the earth. He defined the standard he wanted of his followers. They should be willing to not change their vote and to keep following him, even if he murdered someone on 5th Avenue. He wanted people with no moral compass, no scruples, no common decency, and he's created them. After that message from him, anyone who didn't abandon him then has no standing in decent society. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
Years ago, when I was doing research on the counterculture of the 1960s, particularly the counterculture specific to the US, I came across some archival material (which I cannot recall) which suggested that this time in history was a turning point in education for the country, as a decision was made by conservative political leaders to restrict education to only those who could afford it, thereby reinforcing the status quo and preventing any recrudescence of the student protests and rebellion that they attributed to mass education of the general public post-WWII. In other words, there was a lingering belief that the mass education of American youth during this time led to mass protests demanding social change, which gets at your point above. The powers that be figured this out and began to clamp down on access to education rather than implement social democracy or any kind of reform. Subsequently, higher education was no longer cheap or free and began to increase in price. At least, that's the general theory behind the current state of affairs. More recently, particularly in the post-9/11 era, we've seen an even further restriction of education in the states, this time the overall denigration and defunding of the humanities in favor of STEM fields which primarily support the business and finance sector as foot soldiers of free enterprise. It's not a coincidence that many of the most conservative, anti-democratic Trump supporters in the US are also members of the highest echelons of advanced engineering. STEM without humanities is a pathway to turnkey, technocratic fascism. These are also the same people preaching the wonders of techno-utopian AI adoption that will replace most jobs, while at the same time opposing UBI at the highest political levels. Sadly, education is the least of our problems in the US now, as we are veering towards full inverted totalitarianism at this point. I debate with Trump supporters every day, and there's no kind of education that would ever fix this wipe open chasm. They have a thirsty lust for blood that cannot be fulfilled through ideas alone. They are beyond any kind of education at this point. Viriditas ( talk) 09:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
You also get things like Why Does the Tech Workforce Lean Left?. They're both seeing things from their own perspective of a left-right spectrum. NadVolum ( talk) 22:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
With Floozy Official blocked now, that seems a relief. An odd occurence indeed. I'm slightly concerned about them saying [...] if the past few months have proven anything... nevermind.
: do you think they may have been a sockpuppet then, as their account was created yesterday? That may explain the odd behaviour.
Schminnte (
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21:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
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From Talk:Durham special counsel investigation#First sentence Let's try to parse this issue raised by DonFB:
Elements to compare and parse:
I'm going to venture that DonFB means "Clinesmith's case" when he writes "this case". So is Clinesmith's case "related to the origins of the FBI investigation"? Let's look at the facts. We're dealing with the "investigation (1) into the investigators (2)", so we end up easily conflating the two investigations. That creates confusion. Are we talking about 1 or 2? 1=Durham and 2=CFH. Chronologically, 2 comes before 1. If you're not confused yet, then kudos to you! Clinesmith can only be related to 1=Durham, as 2=CFH closed before Clinesmith's illegal shortcut alteration of a FISA application. Therefore, "Clinesmith's case", tried and convicted by Durham, was "unrelated" to the CFH investigation, which had already closed. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 21:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC) |
Hi! I saw that you reverted and then restored my edit at Homeopathy. No worries about that, I was fully expecting someone to revert it because they didn't notice what I had changed at first :) In my opinion, Template:Multiref is an amazing tool and I wish its use were more widespread. Actualcpscm ( talk) 21:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi again. I noticed you created the page User:Valjean-Fringe theory dk, which I have boldly moved to your user subpage User:Valjean/Fringe theory dk. I've tagged the original page for deletion under U2 and G6. Cheers, Schminnte ( talk • contribs) 15:19, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
See: Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory
Biden and Trump performed similar actions, the withholding of financial aid to Ukraine, but for very different reasons.
Then-Vice President Biden withheld loan guarantees to pressure Ukraine into firing a corrupt prosecutor because he was not performing his job of fighting corruption, which included investigating Burisma and its corrupt owner, actions which would have placed Hunter Biden in more jeopardy, if he had been involved in corruption in Ukraine.
Then-President Trump unsuccessfully tried to pressure Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in a quid pro quo manner to start a publicly announced investigation of Burisma and the Bidens in exchange for the release of congressionally mandated financial and military aid to Ukraine and the promise of a Trump–Zelenskyy meeting at the White House. This predicated Trump's first impeachment charge of abuse of power. Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:26, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
Reddit went down at the moment WaPo reported charges against Trump were filed, which was around 21 minutes ago. It’s still not back up and nobody has been able to post reports about it or discuss it. Viriditas ( talk) 00:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Federal prosecution of Donald Trump
Good to see the cited source returned. Technically, the source doesn't say that Reade considered Butina to be her "long time friend," instead Reade just said that Butina was "my friend". Regards, AzureCitizen ( talk) 22:00, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey, I thought you might benefit from some insight into how and why I became a stickler for unsourced DOBs.
Several years ago, I noticed that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Days of the year (DOTY) pages were becoming a complete mess with incorrect and unverifiable info. The project had literally declared the pages exempt from needing sources (yes, really!).
As a result, almost none of the DOTY pages had any sources to back things up, based on the naive (and against Wikipedia policy) belief that all entries would be backed by reliable sources in the linked article. It turns out that was not the case and the DOTY pages were filled with incorrect info and even worse, other places started believing the info there and publishing the incorrect info in newspapers, for example on "Today's date in history" type listings - classic citogenesis.
So about 6 years ago the DOTY project found sanity and we now require all new entries on those pages to be backed by direct reliable sources. Several of us have gone through and started cleaning DOTY pages up. May 11 is an example of where we want to be. For details see the content guideline, the WikiProject Days of the Year style guide or the edit notice on any DOY page.
The DOTY project members have asked participants to go through their birthday page and clean the entries up by adding reliable sources to each entry, or removing entries where reliable sources aren't readily available in the linked article. We've made significant progress, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
In the process of doing this, we've learned that many of the linked articles have no sources for the DOB, like in the case of Maggie Haberman before you fixed it, so many of us are cleaning a little more broadly than just the DOTY articles as we encounter unsourced DOBs.
Cheers! Toddst1 ( talk) 20:41, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
I saw your comment at [53] (someone like that) and found it distasteful; normally I wouldn't say anything but you are fresh off an WP:AE discussion about similar behavior, and you are an experienced and prolific editor. Beccaynr's comment here [54] (be very careful when about talking about the personal characteristics of editors and to avoid suggesting that anyone is a representative for their particular (marginalized or majority) group.) seems apt. Striking that comment might be a good idea. Regards, SmolBrane ( talk) 17:50, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
The "no collusion" phrase and narrative are Trump's lies, unfortunately often repeated by reliable sources. There is no evidence Mueller ever said such a thing. here's some reading for you:
So it's okay to say that Mueller was unable to prove "conspiracy" and "coordination", even though there is some evidence for it, but it's not okay to say that Mueller did not find evidence of "collusion" or that there was "no collusion" between Trump and his campaign with the Russians. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
Facts:
Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:58, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Discussion pages are meant to be a record of a discussion; deleting or editing legitimate comments is considered bad practice. Look at the talk page for a discussion of why the comment is relevant to the article. Thanks. Chamaemelum ( talk) 01:43, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
could you add autigender or autism gender please? ParticularDarling ( talk) 05:59, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
https://www.shoretherapycenter.com/blog/autigender-autism-gender-identity#:~:text=Autigender%20is%20a%20term%20that,be%20separated%20from%20one%20another ParticularDarling ( talk) 18:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Nice username ;)
If you're unaware, Les Mis is touring again in the US; hope you get a chance to see it (I'm guessing again) this time around. Happy almost-Bastille Day! Combefere ★ Talk 17:54, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm a fan of Lea Salonga. After Miss Saigon, she also did Les Mis and was in both the 10th and 25th anniversary concerts. Her version of "On My Own" is by far the most viewed on YouTube. Absolute perfection. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 18:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
Here's the full 10th Anniversary concert. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 15:05, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello, could you help me improve this English in this article Kevin Peraza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Peraza — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.219.223.137 ( talk) 17:06, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm convinced of your pro-vaccine bona fides, and I think your !vote in the RfC is right on the money.
I'm also grateful that your comments have prompted me to look for examples of good organization to follow. Right now I'm flipping through the political biographies that have made it to Featured status; I didn't know that John Adams and Vladimir Lenin were both on that list! XOR'easter ( talk) 02:34, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Move to article talk space. |
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The RFC clearly states that there is no consensus to remove "propaganda". Yes, some voters favor "misinformation", however, more favor "propaganda". So why "no"? -- Julius Senegal ( talk) 18:55, 21 July 2023 (UTC) |
There is currently a discussion at
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Jtbobwaysf (
talk)
11:19, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
You are an absolute left-wing nut job. I suggest you seek therapy relating to your rampant TDS and anti-Fox bent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themanoflaw049 ( talk • contribs) 06:41, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
This is all getting tiresome, so I'm taking the highly unusual step of banning you, Themanoflaw049, from my talk page. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 20:27, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
You are the one that engaged the edit war with me on 2022 United States House of Representatives elections in New York. I gave a reason for deleting a very poorly-written section and you reverted with no explanation. Give your reason for reversion and we can have a discussion. But as it stands, you are the one engaging in edit warring and you are the one who started it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themanoflaw049 ( talk • contribs) 18:03, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
All of this should have been discussed on the article's talk page, rather than here. That's how BRD works. Instead you just decided to keep on attacking me on my own talk page. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 19:40, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Dusti *Let's talk!* 18:14, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
People sometimes object to article length, but that is rarely a real problem. If they have difficulty downloading the article, it often turns out they just have too many tabs open in their browser, so the problem is on their side. (They should use Firefox.) They shouldn't try to edit the whole article anyway, at least not on a phone. They should edit sections, and no cellphone will object to that.
As long as an article is split into appropriate sections with good headings it will work fine as is. Especially list articles and articles full of nitty gritty important facts are not things people "read" as if they were a narrative or story. They are used to find facts, and the search function is the tool used to "read" them, so splitting the article would be a huge disservice to those trying to find information. -- Valjean ( talk) ( PING me) 14:51, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Hat bizarre personal attack. |
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Sir (or Madam). Several weeks ago, you disagreed with my edits on Joe Biden sexual assault allegation you dug-into my history and made various accusations, including that my ad-hoc checking of the "minor edit" box, <redact personal attack> This is a formal request for you to stay-away from me. I am not on this site often, and to be confronted by you twice in a few weeks is noticeable. <redact personal attack> I thank you in advance for your respect for my wishes. BlueSapphires ( talk) 05:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC) |
I really don’t know where to begin, but some of the gaps are egregious, possibly even misleading. I may update you as time permits for help. Here’s the first glaring example;
Most historians know that Trump first expressed interest in withdrawing from NATO in 1987, when he paid for a full page ad in the NYT, WaPo, and Boston Globe criticizing US foreign policy and promoting Russian talking points which undermined NATO.
The Guardian:
In 1987…Trump and Ivana visited Moscow and St Petersburg for the first time. Shvets said he was fed KGB talking points and flattered by KGB operatives who floated the idea that he should go into politics…The ex-major recalled: “For the KGB, it was a charm offensive. They had collected a lot of information on his personality so they knew who he was personally. The feeling was that he was extremely vulnerable intellectually, and psychologically, and he was prone to flattery…“This is what they exploited. They played the game as if they were immensely impressed by his personality and believed this is the guy who should be the president of the United States one day: it is people like him who could change the world. They fed him these so-called active measures soundbites and it happened. So it was a big achievement for the KGB active measures at the time.”…Soon after he returned to the US, Trump began exploring a run for the Republican nomination for president and even held a campaign rally in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. On 1 September, he took out a full-page advert in the New York Times, Washington Post and Boston Globe headlined: “There’s nothing wrong with America’s Foreign Defense Policy that a little backbone can’t cure.” [55]
Is Trump an unwitting Russian asset? Who knows, but Wikipedia articles are missing a lot of info that connects the dots. Viriditas ( talk) 02:40, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi Valjean
I noticed you deleted a message someone left on my talk page before I was able to read it. I understand it's not AGF but I want to keep the post on my talk page since it's my talk page. I dont really agree with deleting talk page content unless it's really necessary.
Since I dont know, what are the rules, etc for user talk pages? Why did you delete it? The comments the banned user made on the RFK discussion were not deleted? You even said yourself that you prefer to archive messages.
I wish to add it back, unless you explain why it cannot be.
Thank you. Opok2021 ( talk) 21:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
You reverted a respected source on the Israeli TransJordanian conflict. why? 96.81.123.61 ( talk) 16:42, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Bogus warning. Now that user is blocked. |
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![]() Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. § — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mav214 ( talk • contribs) 17:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC) |