![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Connelly (historian) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).
You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 01:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi! There's going to be a London Wikipedia Meetup coming Saturday January 12, 2008. If you are interested in coming along take part in the discussion over at Wikipedia:Meetup/London7. The discussion is going on until tomorrow evening and the official location and time will be published at the same page late Thursday or early Friday. Hope to see you Saturday, Poeloq ( talk) 02:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | California Institute of Technology | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Berklee College of Music | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Round 4 has begun! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 06:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Tim
Please see:
What do you think??
cheers
138.37.199.206 ( talk) 11:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | University of Kent |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | University of Colorado at Boulder | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | University of California, San Francisco | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Sorry about the late notice. My 21st birthday was on Wednesday and I was pretty much sick all day Thursday, so I wasn't able to get a chance to do this. Anyways, three new articles.
Note: I didn't place the Portal on the ENT because I felt that the portal was more like a collection of articles rather than an actual article focused on the university. This semi-goes against our original goals of the COTF in which university articles would get attention first before handling the subarticles. (Portal is more like a collection of articles). Anyways, if you believe it should be back on the ENT, I'll make sure it'll be Round 6's ENT, so if you do feel it should, talk on the COTF talk page.
Oh yeah, I hope the coding works. I'm using WP:AWB to do signpost delivery by "Append Text"...hoping that it'll work. If this comes out horribly, please let me know if I haven't already fixed the error(s).
Any personal questions regarding the management and coding of this program should be directed to me talk page. Thank you for your understanding. - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 09:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The January 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! — Noetic Sage 21:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | University of Phoenix |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | United States Military Academy | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Rollins College | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Enjoy! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 05:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello.
First, thank you for removing that nonsense about post-nominal letters for old boys of various schools. Your prize-giving example was spot-on. I once played in an orchestra for a school light opera production (not my own school) and old boys in the orchestra were identified by the letters OA. However, they wouldn't use these letters in any other setting.
To answer, as best I can, some of your questions:
I've tried to deal with this here: Universities_in_the_United_Kingdom#Post-nominal_abbreviations. You give the name of the university, not the name of the city it's in, though in most cases that is the same thing (exceptions being Kent, Surrey, Sussex, Brunel, and the newer universities that have a combination of city and something else, such as Metropolitan or Brookes). Oxon and Cantab were obviously the originals and there's some justification in continuing to use them (though I wouldn't do so myself) merely because they are time-honoured and widely understood. Where there is an episcopal see of the same name graduates of an archaic bent seem to have adopted it. I was once told by somebody in a fairly senior public office that one of his colleagues remarked with absolute seriousness how many members of the Winton family had been bishop of Winchester. So if anyone if going to use the less common Latin terms they should do so with caution!
As for the page of post-nominal letters I'm not sure whether it's appropriate to include the universities. I'd favour something like, 'Degree, which may be followed by the name of the university'. To be complete the list ought to include all the hundred and more universities in the UK, which is not practical.
For these purposes it doesn't matter whether you think an Oxbridge (or Dublin) MA is a "real" MA. It is still an MA! I'd follow the rule laid down by Oxford in the document I quoted in the Universities in the UK page. The junior degree comes before the senior. To respond to the situations you refer to: John Smith, MA Birmingham, MA Cambridge; John Smith MA Oxford, MA Reading (the universities in alphabetical order). John Smith, BA DD London, MA PhD Manchester. Certs and Dips come after degrees.
As in the American Associates degree, or as in the Associate of the Royal College of Organists? The latter is a degree of sorts, just as a barrister once told me that Utter Barrister is a degree, but it is not what we usually mean by a degree. I should list it after Certs and Dips. It's much the same as a medical qualification - membership of a certain level in a royal college (but equally of a non-royal college like Trinity College London).
As noted elsewhere, LPC and BVC don't get listed. DipLaw, GradDipLaw, PGDipLaw, GDL, etc could be listed with diplomas. I don't know about teaching qualifications. In the list they are classed as something separate. I don't know if they are. PGCE, CertEd, DipEd, and anything else with Cert or Dip are Certs and Dips and I'd list them as such. The exception is a medical diploma, which is awarded by a royal college rather than a university.
I'd like to make some changes to this list and I wonder if you think I'm right. In particular I want to put everything that is a university degree under degrees. For the purposes of post-nominal letters a medical degree, a law degree, an education degree, a nursing degree, a veterinary degree, etc is a university degree. Indeed in the case of law it is not a qualification to practise law. In the other cases the degree may be a qualification to practise but it can lapse. If a doctor is struck off he doesn't lose his medical degrees unless they are revoked by the university.
As mentioned on the talk page for post-nominals, I'm unhappy about religious orders being listed last. Debrett lists them between university degrees and medical qualifications. I don't think this is right either though I can't find any firm evidence that I am right - just my general experience. In the majority of cases Basil Hume would be described as Basil Hume, OSB, OM. This is not meant to show any disrespect to the Queen though it could be seen to show reverence to God (by whose Grace the Queen is said to reign). Most religious take a new name: thus George Hume becomes Dom Basil Hume OSB. I also quoted Henry Wansbrough, OSB, MA, STL, LSS. The monks and friars at Oxford are always described as John Smith, OP, MA, DPhil or John Smith, SJ, MA, PhD.
Finally, I wonder if some of those letters can be taken out, particularly Stonebridge Associated Colleges. I'm not sure that it deserves a section all of its own.
I'd be interested to know what you think since you seem to have taken an interest in this sort of thing.-- Oxonian2006 ( talk) 23:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
As a current or past contributor to a related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Florida, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of University of Florida. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks! |
Jccort ( talk) 16:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The February 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! —Delivered on 19:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC) by MiszaBot ( talk)
Something odd going on here [1]. I would have changed the URL back to the one in your rationale, but that URL seems to be dead. I had a (very) quick look at the QMSU webpage and couldn't see this version of the logo anywhere. Perhaps you could sort it out before the Non-Free Image Police jump on you! Regards, -- RFBailey ( talk) 15:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Hope everyone got a good two week rest in observance of Spring Break. Here are the new articles for the next fourteen days until 27 Mar 2008.
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | King's College London |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | Clemson University | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | University of Hong Kong | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
I've taken advice to purposefully scramble the articles so they must be multi-nation (so we don't get complaints that it's too US-centric). This time we've got an article in UK, one in US, and one in HKG. Hope this will suffice. As always, please let me know if there are any questions. - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 23:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The WikiProject Doctor Who Award | |
Belatedly, for your work on the UNIT dating controversy. Type 40 ( talk) 10:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC) |
For what its worth (if anything) - I posted a reply to your query at Talk: Irish Free State Redking7 ( talk) 18:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | Kennesaw State University |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | Columbia University | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Chulalongkorn University | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
OK... so Columbia's a B-class article looking at FA nomination. Let's see if we can push it through FAN! (And good luck to anyone who speaks Thai and can translate the Thai version of Chulalongkorn University article into English) See you all 5 days before tax day (for those of us who are US taxpayers)! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 03:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The March 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! —Delivered on 18:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC) by MiszaBot ( talk)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Connelly (historian) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).
You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 01:29, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi! There's going to be a London Wikipedia Meetup coming Saturday January 12, 2008. If you are interested in coming along take part in the discussion over at Wikipedia:Meetup/London7. The discussion is going on until tomorrow evening and the official location and time will be published at the same page late Thursday or early Friday. Hope to see you Saturday, Poeloq ( talk) 02:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | California Institute of Technology | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Berklee College of Music | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Round 4 has begun! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 06:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Tim
Please see:
What do you think??
cheers
138.37.199.206 ( talk) 11:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | University of Kent |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | University of Colorado at Boulder | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | University of California, San Francisco | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Sorry about the late notice. My 21st birthday was on Wednesday and I was pretty much sick all day Thursday, so I wasn't able to get a chance to do this. Anyways, three new articles.
Note: I didn't place the Portal on the ENT because I felt that the portal was more like a collection of articles rather than an actual article focused on the university. This semi-goes against our original goals of the COTF in which university articles would get attention first before handling the subarticles. (Portal is more like a collection of articles). Anyways, if you believe it should be back on the ENT, I'll make sure it'll be Round 6's ENT, so if you do feel it should, talk on the COTF talk page.
Oh yeah, I hope the coding works. I'm using WP:AWB to do signpost delivery by "Append Text"...hoping that it'll work. If this comes out horribly, please let me know if I haven't already fixed the error(s).
Any personal questions regarding the management and coding of this program should be directed to me talk page. Thank you for your understanding. - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 09:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
The January 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! — Noetic Sage 21:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | University of Phoenix |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | United States Military Academy | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Rollins College | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
Enjoy! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 05:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello.
First, thank you for removing that nonsense about post-nominal letters for old boys of various schools. Your prize-giving example was spot-on. I once played in an orchestra for a school light opera production (not my own school) and old boys in the orchestra were identified by the letters OA. However, they wouldn't use these letters in any other setting.
To answer, as best I can, some of your questions:
I've tried to deal with this here: Universities_in_the_United_Kingdom#Post-nominal_abbreviations. You give the name of the university, not the name of the city it's in, though in most cases that is the same thing (exceptions being Kent, Surrey, Sussex, Brunel, and the newer universities that have a combination of city and something else, such as Metropolitan or Brookes). Oxon and Cantab were obviously the originals and there's some justification in continuing to use them (though I wouldn't do so myself) merely because they are time-honoured and widely understood. Where there is an episcopal see of the same name graduates of an archaic bent seem to have adopted it. I was once told by somebody in a fairly senior public office that one of his colleagues remarked with absolute seriousness how many members of the Winton family had been bishop of Winchester. So if anyone if going to use the less common Latin terms they should do so with caution!
As for the page of post-nominal letters I'm not sure whether it's appropriate to include the universities. I'd favour something like, 'Degree, which may be followed by the name of the university'. To be complete the list ought to include all the hundred and more universities in the UK, which is not practical.
For these purposes it doesn't matter whether you think an Oxbridge (or Dublin) MA is a "real" MA. It is still an MA! I'd follow the rule laid down by Oxford in the document I quoted in the Universities in the UK page. The junior degree comes before the senior. To respond to the situations you refer to: John Smith, MA Birmingham, MA Cambridge; John Smith MA Oxford, MA Reading (the universities in alphabetical order). John Smith, BA DD London, MA PhD Manchester. Certs and Dips come after degrees.
As in the American Associates degree, or as in the Associate of the Royal College of Organists? The latter is a degree of sorts, just as a barrister once told me that Utter Barrister is a degree, but it is not what we usually mean by a degree. I should list it after Certs and Dips. It's much the same as a medical qualification - membership of a certain level in a royal college (but equally of a non-royal college like Trinity College London).
As noted elsewhere, LPC and BVC don't get listed. DipLaw, GradDipLaw, PGDipLaw, GDL, etc could be listed with diplomas. I don't know about teaching qualifications. In the list they are classed as something separate. I don't know if they are. PGCE, CertEd, DipEd, and anything else with Cert or Dip are Certs and Dips and I'd list them as such. The exception is a medical diploma, which is awarded by a royal college rather than a university.
I'd like to make some changes to this list and I wonder if you think I'm right. In particular I want to put everything that is a university degree under degrees. For the purposes of post-nominal letters a medical degree, a law degree, an education degree, a nursing degree, a veterinary degree, etc is a university degree. Indeed in the case of law it is not a qualification to practise law. In the other cases the degree may be a qualification to practise but it can lapse. If a doctor is struck off he doesn't lose his medical degrees unless they are revoked by the university.
As mentioned on the talk page for post-nominals, I'm unhappy about religious orders being listed last. Debrett lists them between university degrees and medical qualifications. I don't think this is right either though I can't find any firm evidence that I am right - just my general experience. In the majority of cases Basil Hume would be described as Basil Hume, OSB, OM. This is not meant to show any disrespect to the Queen though it could be seen to show reverence to God (by whose Grace the Queen is said to reign). Most religious take a new name: thus George Hume becomes Dom Basil Hume OSB. I also quoted Henry Wansbrough, OSB, MA, STL, LSS. The monks and friars at Oxford are always described as John Smith, OP, MA, DPhil or John Smith, SJ, MA, PhD.
Finally, I wonder if some of those letters can be taken out, particularly Stonebridge Associated Colleges. I'm not sure that it deserves a section all of its own.
I'd be interested to know what you think since you seem to have taken an interest in this sort of thing.-- Oxonian2006 ( talk) 23:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
As a current or past contributor to a related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Florida, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of University of Florida. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks! |
Jccort ( talk) 16:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The February 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! —Delivered on 19:22, 5 March 2008 (UTC) by MiszaBot ( talk)
Something odd going on here [1]. I would have changed the URL back to the one in your rationale, but that URL seems to be dead. I had a (very) quick look at the QMSU webpage and couldn't see this version of the logo anywhere. Perhaps you could sort it out before the Non-Free Image Police jump on you! Regards, -- RFBailey ( talk) 15:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Hope everyone got a good two week rest in observance of Spring Break. Here are the new articles for the next fourteen days until 27 Mar 2008.
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | King's College London |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | Clemson University | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | University of Hong Kong | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
I've taken advice to purposefully scramble the articles so they must be multi-nation (so we don't get complaints that it's too US-centric). This time we've got an article in UK, one in US, and one in HKG. Hope this will suffice. As always, please let me know if there are any questions. - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 23:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() |
The WikiProject Doctor Who Award | |
Belatedly, for your work on the UNIT dating controversy. Type 40 ( talk) 10:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC) |
For what its worth (if anything) - I posted a reply to your query at Talk: Irish Free State Redking7 ( talk) 18:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
The current University Collaborations of the Fortnight are: | ||
---|---|---|
Editor Nominated Topic | Kennesaw State University |
![]() |
B-Class Improvement Drive | Columbia University | |
Start/ Stub Improvement Drive | Chulalongkorn University | |
Every
fortnight three
higher education-related topics, stubs, or
red linked articles are chosen for you to improve.
Be bold! |
OK... so Columbia's a B-class article looking at FA nomination. Let's see if we can push it through FAN! (And good luck to anyone who speaks Thai and can translate the Thai version of Chulalongkorn University article into English) See you all 5 days before tax day (for those of us who are US taxpayers)! - Jameson L. Tai talk ♦ contribs 03:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The March 2008 issue of the WikiProject Universities newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you for your continued support of WikiProject Universities! —Delivered on 18:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC) by MiszaBot ( talk)