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I would like to draw your attention to user:MarshallBagramyan. He is engaged in massive rv's on Azerbaijan-Armenia related page. On page Armenian Revolutionary Federation he removed text with 5 refrences without any discussion and moreover threatened to report me to Arbcom [1]. I was already once insulted on that page by other users which was a part of Arbcom consideration.-- Dacy69 14:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I filed RfC per your advise. Unfortunately, -- MarshallBagramyan continue to make personal attack on contrubutor - you can read the end of this message [2], rather on concentrating on dispute content. I will continue developing arguments for RfC but I don't expect that opponents will be willing to work towards solution, taking into account continued attacks.-- Dacy69 14:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
this is a new one [3] - how I am supposed to work when I am constantly under attacks.-- Dacy69 16:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
and just came from user:Fedayee [4] - only personal attack - no discussion of the content-- Dacy69 21:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
See my answer here. Thatcher131 14:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
*sigh* Thatch, I am honestly exasperated of seeing these reports. None of the users who have problems with me exhaust the talk page and after one slight disagreement, where there is no serious attempt to remedy the situation, it's off to admins. to complain about my "problematic behavior". What I could see is that my revert was fully justified from the previous discussions at the Nakhichevan page. I have collected the sources which were cited in the Nakhichevan talk page which include but are not limited to:
Those sources supported what was is said about the Armenians in Nakhichevan in the 1600 period. For some reason, they are insufficent for Grandmaster.
My second revert was here: [9] Grandmaster added the word “allegedly” in regards to the Armenian monuments and removed the word “alleged” for the destruction of Azerbaijani monuments claiming that it was part of the original quote. But alas, there are no quotation marks since it is in my own wording and no actual support of the statement by the statesmen in the respective article Is this a good faith edit?
The article which I wrote presents the destruction of the Khachkars as a position not as a fact, and Grandmaster removed the term “alleged” for the claims of destruction of Azerbaijani monuments, preferring to present it as truth in the Khachkar article which doesn’t even present the destruction of Khachkars as truth. Grandmaster also removed other pieces of info without discussion [10] and yet he criticized for my revert of Dacy69's edit, for something which was already discussed in the past while here, he removes something without even going to the talk page.
The removal of the template questioning the article is justified; GM's reason for adding it has more to do with the fact that he opposes the fact that those Khachkars were destroyed, which is an inadequate reason to have it there.-- MarshallBagramyan 22:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
It's not a fork and I never intended it to be one. You stated that the article "Khachkar Destruction" encompassed the destruction of khachkars regardless of their location. Fine with me, and that's why it doesn't have to cover the destruction in Nakhichevan in such great detail. The distinction is like an article on Hurricanes and Hurricane Katrina, one focuses on hurricanes in general whereas the other focuses on a particular hurricane. GM's flip flopping on whether or not to keep the Khachkar Destruction article can be found in the AFDs. First GM was opposed to it because it was only on Nakhichevan but then voiced support for it once it included Armenians mismanaging their own khachkars (something AdilBaguirov cleverly exploited in the midst of the two nominations); it goes double for Dacy and the other users who made sudden about faces when they no longer wanted the article to disappear.
So now we're stuck with two articles. The name of the first article was supposed to be "Khachkar Destruction in Nakhichevan" but because the user who created it left out the last two words, Adil took advantage of this and decided to add two Armenian sources that don't even support a thesis that the khachkars are being destroyed: moved, yes, mismanaged, yes, desecrated by ignorant youth, yes; but just because their end result ended up in some khachkars being damaged does not fit the definition of something as abrasive as the word "destruction". Otherwise, all other mentions of the words "khachkar" and "destruction" refer solely to those in Nakhichevan.
Most of the info found on Julfa can be deleted and all we have to do is add an internal link to "Khachkar Destruction" and mention some info about it. GM would never accept these fringe Armenian sources under different circumstances, sources that don't even correspond to what the article is about. There's more than enough independent sources on the Khachkar Destruction in Nakhichevan page to warrant its own article whereas those khachkars in Armenia do not even fit the definition of Wikipedia's Notability guidelines.-- MarshallBagramyan 06:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Please look back at the aforementioned sources before you accuse me of distortion. I'm not going to explain myself again as to why your assertion that Muslims who were removed (not from Nakhichevan since there is little mention of them) formed a majority is deeply flawed. In regards to this comment The quote should be presented the way it is, it is pretty obvious that those words are the opinion of the person quoted. I'm not quoting the official, that is why there are no quotation marks. Since the official's comments are uncorroborated by any sources, his opinion remains "alleged". Just because someone says something in a news article, doesn't mean that it is true, and that's why words and phrases like "stated", "said", "according to" are used. If we were to go by your logic, then we could have easily removed all such words in the article, presenting the Khachkar destruction as an absolute, 100%, undoubtable fact and every such controversial statement as indusputable pieces of evidence.-- MarshallBagramyan 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Much as I appreciate your attempt to resolve problems at 1929 Hebron massacre with Edit warring, I fear you are missing the point. The article in its current form is unfit to be in the encyclopaedia. It's been hi-jacked by POV, it reads like propaganda - and that's because it is propaganda. Just as one example, in the lead, it says "The massacre also led to the re-organization and development of the community defense organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.", when many/most of the settlers were already armed for offense (eg Jabotinsky "The Iron Wall" 1923). PalestineRemembered 15:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
You have no credibility with me any more. Ban me if you want to so. Fred Bauder takes me as a joke. Rosencomet can go on and on introjecting comments into other people talk pages for months and you do nothing. I believe you are biased. That is my opinion. If you go back and make Rosencomet do the same, remove his introjected comments (we will forget the introjected comments by 999, Hanuman Das, Ekajati etc., the protected sockpuppets} that you chose to overlook then I will do the same. Until you apply your authority fairly I feel no obligation to be singled out for discrimination. HeadlessJeff 16:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Example:
(posted on ANI as soon as he found out he was on my case) Jefferson Anderson, please do no delete material from my user page again
I'm sure many of you are familiar with the interesting history of Mattisse ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been criticized for mass tagging sprees, not the least of which is connected to a great number of articles created by Rosencomet ( talk · contribs) and involving the Starwood Festival. Mattisse has been subject to many checkuser cases, some of which are documented here, which resulted in a block, here, and here, which resulted in a longer block (1 week) for inappropriate uses of sockpuppets.
Well, an RfC and a mediation case are still ongoing regarding Rosencomet and the Starwood Festival articles. It was recently brought to my attention that Mattisse approached another user involved in the disputes, complaining about an article that one of Mattisse's own confirmed socks created, apparently as a device to discredit other parties in the mediation and create an impression of impropriety. I feel this action warrants a longer block. Thoughts? -- Ars Scriptor 16:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Are you available at all for help or can you suggest someone. Everyone seems to be clearly supporting Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. I think it would be fair for me to get some help in this situation.
Regarding your comment here, I was hoping for a second opinion on whether a block is warranted here. While technically no "new" abuse of sockpuppets occurred, I feel that Mattisse brought up that article in order to create a disruption. She knows that parties involved in the disputes are monitoring other participants' talk pages, and she knows that posting that link would draw more negative attention to the Starwood articles. I don't know if she actually forget she wrote it, or if she thought no one would notice, but I personally have seen enough of editors' time wasted on the entire matter. -- Ars Scriptor 22:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I realize that no new abuse of sockpuppets has occurred. The actions taken under the Flinders account are in the past. However, I seriously question the motives of Mattisse in suddenly posting about an article that the Flinders account created. Mattisse has to know that everyone has the Talk pages watchlisted of everyone involved in this, and would see the post. If anything, I would expect that she would want the matter forgotten.
-- Ars Scriptor 00:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Lets face it, AGF never did apply to me. And I started out an idealistic user and remained so until today. HeadlessJeff 17:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Jefferson Anderson shows up on my talk page on January 12, having had no interactions with me before and posts the following many posts all on that day, then lists me as a rude editor on his user page along with a Mattisse sockpuppet box. January 12 sequential diffs:
The last edit summary I made asking him not to post on my page again has been used repeadedly since as an example of my harrassment of him. On January 18 he posts on my talk page again: [37] I am suspicious of him now because he posted on my page repeatedly without knowing me, his subject was sockpuppet (known preocupation of Hanuman Das and Ekajaki), he was overly invested in me as shown by his posts, after I apologised deeply three times, he listed me as a rude editor and posted the Mattisse sockpuppet box on his user page. Why would a disinterested user invest so much time in me? Sincerely, Mattisse 15:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Do be aware that this is not the first time Mattisse has gone on a tagging spree. The first time she tagged every article listed in Starwood Festival. She then created multiple sockpuppets to continue tagging the same set of articles. Several of us suspect that Timmy12 is a sockpuppet being used by Mattisse to do such tagging now. Ekajati ( yakity-yak) 19:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
If you believed my original explanation and AGF none of this would have come up:
--Mattisse--
Regarding your comment here, I was hoping for a second opinion on whether a block is warranted here. While technically no "new" abuse of sockpuppets occurred, I feel that Mattisse brought up that article in order to create a disruption. She knows that parties involved in the disputes are monitoring other participants' talk pages, and she knows that posting that link would draw more negative attention to the Starwood articles. I don't know if she actually forget she wrote it, or if she thought no one would notice, but I personally have seen enough of editors' time wasted on the entire matter. -- Ars Scriptor 22:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for the lack of AGF for me. It outlines what has happened so clearly. I never realised completely until today. HeadlessJeff 17:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Note I will read the above and reply by e-mail tonight. Thatcher131 17:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
(from Ekajaki's archives> Have you filed a checkuser request for this? -- Aguerriero ( talk) 19:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Aguerriero( talk) became User:Ars Scriptor and "retired" over the weekend after I asked why he reverted my edits upon User:Ekajati's request, just because she asked and without knowing anything about the situation, other than Ekajati had asked User:Anger22 to do so before who complied without knowing anything about the situations either. User:Anger22 called me a "troll" but that is O.K. as User:Ekajati certainly was not. Oh, well. It's only the dispensible Mattisse. No point in protecting her. HeadlessJeff 18:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I will do so. I was thinking of talking a wikibreak while Mattisse finishes self-destructing, and your note convinces me that that is the right thing to do. Jefferson Anderson 19:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
User:Jefferson Anderson chose to stalk me there as he does everywhere. So his stalking me is my fault too. I guess that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. I am the cause of everything. I keep forgetting that. Dumb me! Dumb! HeadlessJeff 19:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Wow. Here I was about to enter a challenge to Mattisse's statements and ask why you keep protecting her, but you've obviously suffered enough. I had no idea how disrespectful she was being to you. I suppose I should have expected it, since she's treated just about every arbitrator and advocate she's interacted with the same way, even if they support her but just not as agressively as she'd like (as in your case, to some extent); Fred Bauder, SilkTork (formerly Steve Caruso), etc. etc. What amazes me most is that she can't see herself as having provoked the reactions of other editors at all; she is convinced that she has always been, and is now, the poor poor victim. Or at least that's the way she's acting; for someone claiming to be a psychologist, you'd either expect more introspection if she's really as oblivious as she claims, or simply be fed up with the manipulation if she's not. In any case, you must have the patience of a saint. Are you even her advocate, or have you just ended up in this position?
Anyway, I don't think I have to repeat my position. Timmy12 is, or was, whatever he/she was. BackMaun and Alien666 and RasputinJSvengali may be a return for him/her, but if I read you right, there is no way to find out. A checkuser was never run on Timmy12 either (for reasons that baffle me), so we'll never know if Mattisse and he/she shared an IP address either, regardless of an arbitrator's assertion that there was not enough similarity between their editing to assert they were the same. And if Mattise edited as HeadlessJeff at some time before she made it known that this is a signature for her, I guess that will not be known, either. I could just be remembering that wrong, I suppose, or mixing it up with a similar name. (NearlyHeadlessJeff?) :-)
Putting all that in the past, there are a few things we know right now: that Fred Bauder ran a checkuser on Mattisse, BackMaun and Alien666 recently which showed that they shared an IP address, that there is a lot of similarity between their (and RasputinJSvengali's) editing and who's work they target, that BackMaun has locked horns with the same people as the others and made reference to these same conflicts on my talk page, William M. Connolley's and Jefferson Anderson's in an accusatory if not outright hostile manner, and that both BackMaun and Mattisse are still editing (BackMaun as recently as April 21st). Mattisse has never even stated point blank that there is no connection between herself, BackMaun, and Alien666, just objected to the meanies accusing her of it. If they ARE the same, then we have a multiple sockpuppeteer who used them from the time she began editing (May 2006) until she was caught (September 2006) - five months, not "a few weeks in September" - who insists she has stopped the behavior (which, may I remind you, included creating fake articles and attributing them to other editors), but is in fact not only editing that way again but instigating conflicts between editors again and being abusive to advocates and arbitrators.
I believe this cannot be ignored or swept aside. The past is past, but this is present behavior. I'm sure you've heard the definition of insanity that characterizes it as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome, and I think we would be crazy to think that IF this IS what's going on (and I don't command the technology to check this, only you and your colleagues do) it will stop by just calling it "old news", or accepting insincere apology number twenty-nine or whatever, and letting there be no consequences. Other editors have been banned for far less; this must IMO at least be pursued and determined once and for all. Fair is fair.
And I thank you for your consideration and patience. I do not want to add to your stress, and I certainly will assume good faith in your desire to be even-handed. I can only hope this unpleasantness will end, and I am so sorry to see the thankless way your efforts have been received. I have had my disagreements with one or two "people in power" on Wikipedia, however that works, but I have to greatly respect anyone willing to put their necks out and deal with this contentious and often immensely frustrating chore. More power to you. Rosencomet 20:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Do you think it is fair that people should be disciplined without being told what they have done wrong? I put a lot of effort into making it as easy as possible for you to tell me why you consider my behavior inappropriate. May I please have the simple courtesy of being told what exactly you found offensive? James S. 19:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to mark the ips that had been banned on that page (if you have a semi automatic way of doing this). I really do not want to do it by hand :P -- Cat chi? 20:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
But a checkuser was run on Timmy12 and me (Mattisse) and came up negative. But who cares about the facts. We make reality by postings, not real evidence. Sincerely, -- HeadlessJeff 20:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I have explained about my grandchildren. It was ridiculed by Rosencomet and others as the "Granny defense" among other places on the ANI pages. I just can't find it. I explained on BostonMA's talk page among other pages which was copied and passed around and ridiculed. This is hopeless. I cannot defend myself and I cannot get help. How can I take easy? -- people like you with power can take it easy. I have to worry every single day. Don't make fun of me now -- please, please! --Mattisse 01:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
--Mattisse 01:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please someone help me. Can you recommend someone to help me. I do not know how to find lost links. I have been looking. Is there a person that can help me? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 02:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Jefferson Anderson, please do no delete material from my user page again
I'm sure many of you are familiar with the interesting history of Mattisse ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been criticized for mass tagging sprees, not the least of which is connected to a great number of articles created by Rosencomet ( talk · contribs) and involving the Starwood Festival. Mattisse has been subject to many checkuser cases, some of which are documented here, which resulted in a block, here, and here, which resulted in a longer block (1 week) for inappropriate uses of sockpuppets.
Well, an RfC and a mediation case are still ongoing regarding Rosencomet and the Starwood Festival articles. It was recently brought to my attention that Mattisse approached another user involved in the disputes, complaining about an article that one of Mattisse's own confirmed socks created, apparently as a device to discredit other parties in the mediation and create an impression of impropriety. I feel this action warrants a longer block. Thoughts? -- Ars Scriptor 16:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Please note: there are two examples of the "granny defense" which it is claimed I never tried to explain. -- Mattisse 02:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
While I am really leaving WP for a bit and coming back with a new account, in the interests of fairness, there is another user who also insistently believes that I was part of the Ekajati ring. That user is WeniWidiWiki, who is also vehemently opposed to Rosencomet and has recently had a small tussle with him over the new Jeff Rosenbaum article created by Badagnani: [39], [40], [41], [42]. It seemed necessary to mention this, I'd hate to see Mattisse continue to be distressed if Alien666, BackMaun and RasputinJSvengali are actually being run by a different puppetmaster.
Also, could you please protect both my user and talk page the way I left them (with just the template)? TIA. Jefferson Anderson 15:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
-- Mattisse 16:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Could you please protect my user talk page and user page from further vandalism from Jefferson Anderson and others? I noticed he requested that above and I assume you will do it. The last time you turned me down. Perhaps in the interest of beginning to AGF with me you will. Thank you. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 16:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please stop dragging up the past. There is not one fault I have committed since fall of last year. I have been punished for all my sins long ago. Have you looked at my user page and seen the barnstars I have received? I am asking you to not equate my edit history with that of Jefferson Anderson. Would you desert 18,000 excellent mainspace edits made in less than a year, when I have done nothing wrong since last summer?
If you would please move on from the past and AGF toward me, which I can see is very difficult for you, I believe the situation would improve greatly. Meanwhile I have received much positive feedback from other editors who do not seem to have the AGF problem toward me as you do, although they know the story. "Please try a little harder" -- as Janis Joplin sang. Therefore, I will not be taking your advice of following in Jefferson Anderson's shoes so kindly offered to my in your email Sincerely, -- Mattisse 17:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Remove all the references hip hopjazzproduction etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.244.219 ( talk) 18:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
I have spoken to your head office I am playing wiki world game I have had enough now it is ok to slander me have your members stalk me find my address and commit brand damage then turn around waste my time etc etc. I am telling you and far as I am concerned that is enough. If you do not allow me to play by your rules. Even though they breach real world rules and common sense then you fix it. Take all references to hiphopjazzproductions.com hiphopjazzproduction.com flo2flo.com and harmonicazone.com I have not even used flo2flo on here some guy just traced it to me and added that to the harassment fix it. I spoke to your head office I have played the game I want it done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.244.219 ( talk • contribs)
If you and Rosencomet (and the now unknown Jefferson Anderson) can also move forward, I believe there will be no more problems for me. From these sources is where all my problems stemmed, once the organised sockpuppet ring was closed down. Sincerely, Mattisse 17:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[43] This diff exists in the history of my user page. It identifies Alien666 and BackMaun as sockpuppets of Mattisse as identified by checkuser. If you are not the right person to ask, could you direct me to the correct person? Thank you. Sincerely, Mattisse 19:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey, why arent you guys dont anything about Elsanaturk: [45]? Azerbaijani 22:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering why my comment was removed after 7 days. Artaxiad had caused additional disruption with sockpuppets and has threated to create more. Should I start a second ArbCom case? -- Cat chi? 23:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please provide me evidence with diffs to support your claims, and please do not count Jefferson Anderson attacking me three days after he registered. I have only been kind to Rosencoment. I have apologized twice, which he has not accepted. I have not edited his article for 10 months, and then never maliciously although I did go over board naively on the tagging for which I regret and I apologise once again. Yes, when I was stalked by a sock puppet ring for almost a year I got unnerved and rattled and depressed. But I was never uncivil, I never left attacks in edit summaries,I did no stalk people or trash their articles, nor recruit other editors to revert the work of others. I tried to be friendly with Ekajaki and Hanuman Das. I did edit vey good articles, which seem to be disregarded by you completely. You recommend I desert an excellent record of editing? 18,000 mainspace article? Really? Why would I bother with Rosencomet and neopaganism when I am not even interested in the subject and risk my excllent editing record over a subject I can nothing about? Yes, the link spam bothered me. But I quickly dropped out of that and left others to deal with it.
For months I did not even know what was going on until I was accused of being a sock puppet of Timmy12. I had not been paying attention and so did not know about all that, did not know even that Timmy12 existed. I had new friends and new interests and articles to write. Please AGF and stop accusing me of holding a grudge. Please let this go. I did everything I knew how to do the right thing. Yes, once in a while I became completely unhinged because I am not invincible and do falter on occasion when under extreem duress, when ANI's were filed constantly againt me before I knew enough to know about ANI pages. Remember, this was an organised sock puppet after me. I never pretended to be perfect. But that you would even suggest I desert my edit history is incredible. I have been involved in many Feature Articles. I am very hurt and insulted that you disregard my hard work done for Wikipedia and think that I would risk my reputation and work over the likes of the articles of Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. I know you take me for a dope but I am not that stupid. I care about being a good editor and regarded and sought after as such. I value that. What you accuse me of does not make sense!
Stop trashing me, please! And stop equating me with Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson as if we are similar people. Please, please, please drop this grudge against me. I will not be able to edit again until you do and until you can muster a minuscule amount of AGF toward me. You seem to be on a mission against me on this grudge issue. -- Mattisse 02:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. (you will accuse me of lacking AGF, but do you find it strange that within minutes of posting my retirement, Jefferson Anderson was blanking my pages? No?) -- Mattisse 02:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You told me be for that he had not but I looked at the histories and he had. -- Mattisse 03:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC) Then you told me there was no way to protect. So if I leave for a few day I am lost. -- Mattisse 03:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Altho you said he had not, he had blanked parts of pages. Loot at the history. How can I stop it? -- Mattisse 03:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
If I had not seen it happen, if I were not on the web, if I were on vacation or something, how can that be prevented from happening again. He was obviously stalking me (I know that is not AGF) but it happne d immediately after I put that sign up. Mattisse 04:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
But I must be constantly figulant against this sort of thing. I am not worrying about my articles being vandalisd now. -- Mattisse 04:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You used to never answer me, so things have improved, I guess. Mattisse 04:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if you are addressing me or not. I also don't know what you mean. What did you delete? I looked at the history and cannot figure out what you did, nor whether it was harmful or helpful to me. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 15:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You posted this to my talk page:
[47] This diff exists in the history of my user page. It identifies Alien666 and BackMaun as sockpuppets of Mattisse as identified by checkuser. If you are not the right person to ask, could you direct me to the correct person? Thank you. Sincerely, Mattisse 19:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[48] a similar diff in the history of my user page. Could you direct me to someone who can help me with this problem? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 19:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I checked and found that an anonymous IP user had unfairly labled you a sockpuppet. Probably Ekajati. I assumed you wanted the edit removed, so I did so. I also found some other abusive edits (such as calling you mentally unstable) and I removed them as well. Thatcher131 15:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Re your recent messages to me. I thank you for helping me on this as I have not been able to get any help before. Except for one kind person at the Village Pump all my requests for such removals have been ignored.
Since you implied that such labeling is not allow if it is not true, does that mean it is allowed if it is true? Please answer this. Sincerely, Mattisse 16:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I said it before and I'll say it again; you've got the patience of a saint. In the words of Stan Lee, 'Nuff Said. Rosencomet 16:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I have no idea where that is and I am sure that is a complex administrative maze. Second, you are saying that each time a vandal blanks a portion or sub portion of my page while I am gone, I must go and request and justify why each should be restored. And this means I have to spend a great deal of time hunting the blanking down by going through histories, diffs etc. I am taking an indefinite wikibreak because I am exhausted from the last 10 months of harassment and having to try to protect myself. You are suggesting that I return, only to encounter again having to go through the same exhausting process of getting diffs and searching histories and collecting diffs again?
I wish you you be so kind and gracious to me as you were to the sock puppet ring and as you are now to Jefferson Anderson, acknowledged (by you) harassor, now free to roam and harrass under a new identity. O.K. Block me for not having the proper AGF. You have insulted me by suggesting I reduce my edit history to the level of Jefferey Anderson's and that my record is just as immaterial. I believe that is the level of your respect for me which is not much considering what I have contibuted positively to Wikipedia. As I mentioned above I am #407 on the list of most prolific contributors (using no bots and such -- those were real edits). And you suggest to show AGF to my harassor, I desert that record. That is not AGF of you to me. Sincerely, Mattisse 16:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I will save my pages as text files, and past them back in when I return. That is the only solution I can thing of. And, by the way, I am mentally unstable at this point, and would recommend Wikipedia only for hardened criminals. -- Mattisse 16:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Mattisse seems to have begun a campaign of unsigned sockpuppet tags on past comments made by Ekajati & Co. on Talk:Starwood Festival. Rosencomet 17:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I know you never bothered to notice that except for the overboard tagging on the Starwood related articles and the result of having to be involved in related mediations, arbitrations, and RFC's, I have never edited neopagan articles and have no interest in the subject whatsoever, so I find it insulting that you imply that I must "restrain" myself from editing them, since I never do anyway. Please stop insulting me by email in every which possible way. It is clear from your email that you think I am BackMaun (more AGF from you) so I respectfully ask you not to send me any more insulting emails. -- Mattisse 18:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You have speculated at length in you email about my manipulative behavior, my motivations, my intrigues and dishonesty and worse. You describe my motivations as they exist in you mind and how I hide manipulativeness and the truth. You see me in the worst imaginable light. You do me the favor of offering to raise myself to the level of Jefferson Anderson to start over. With your permission, I would like to publish that email. I feel like I have been kicked in the gut. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 18:37, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
In my e-mail to you I treated you with dignity. I acknowledged that you were harassed by a nasty sockpuppeteer who took a long time to catch. I suggested that one way to rebuild your reputation was to drop your grudges; another way is to start with a fresh account. I did all of this privately. You have responded publically by focusing on the second suggestion, being very offended, stating that you are insulted and never want to deal with me again (while still asking for my help, by the way). I suggest you think about the first suggestion I made. Thatcher131 20:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Since in order to file any kind of complaint against you, and I know I stand no chance of a good outcome, I need to start a discussion with you. First I want to know where you obtained your certainty of the "facts" about me and my motivations (AGF). Second, I would like to know what you really think my motivations are, as you see them, and from where could they stem? What could they possibly be? I am not interested in Starwood. I was trying to help Wikipedia. Please explain how you evolved these byzantine beliefs about my motivations, my fixation on neopaganism (could not be further from the truth) and made them into reality in your head and probably those of others you influence? The worst possible reality that could be concocted from the so-called "facts" is what you invented. Then you send me an insulting letter that assumes that your speculations are true (AGF) and that I can redeem myself by lowering myself to the level of Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. Why? Please explain. And please expain why I got no help or guidance in the Arbitration and could not even get questions answered from you? Is it because you had already formed your opinion? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 19:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. I want to use your letter to me as evidence. -- Mattisse 19:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I know you are fair and even handed so I know you reverted the many that have been labelled as my sockpuppets too on that very same page . You would not be partial to Rosencomet I know. Should I sent you a list of all the other pages that have such sockpuppet comments about me on them? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 20:44, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | ||
For an excellent email attempt to save a long time editor. AnonEMouse (squeak) 20:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC) |
You clearly don't have enough of these! -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 20:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I do not understand why I have been banned for two months from three different articles. In the case of Randolph Scott I accept that I was blocked for 24 hours as I was part of an edit war, although I only tried to reinstate a well-sourced passage repeatedly deleted by another user. However, I do not accept the ban in the other cases.
This user even mangled direct quotes from books as my former opponent did. See, for instance, [61]. And he even repeatedly removed content from talk pages. See [62], [63], [64], [65], [66], or, using the IP217.196.238.133, [67]. What I have tried is simply reinstating all those passages this user has deleted or mangled. Interestingly, the same person/sockpuppet is also deleting passages from the Nick Adams article. See [68] or, using another sockpuppet, [69], [70], [71], etc. This user must also be identical with IP203.202.144.22 (see [72], [73], etc.) and this newly created sockpuppet. Therefore, would you please lift my ban and instead ban my opponent and his sockpuppets. He is the disruptive force as he is frequently deleting large blocks of sourced material from the articles on Elvis Presley and Nick Adams. Thank you. Onefortyone 03:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
As for the Randolph Scott article, I am sure we can work out the dispute without edit warring. Onefortyone 02:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your blocking notice for me on the Randolph Scott gay war. I did indeed engage in "edit-warring," though I did not know there was a name for it. I also did not know there was an alternative to it. Thanks to your block, I know now. I've gotten quite involved in editing in the past few months, but confess I don't understand a lot of the officially sanctioned means and methods. I'll study up. I've tried very hard to bring non-POV, cited material into play in various articles, and to eliminate POV or uncited provocative material, and in this particular case, I let the "you can't beat me" game get out of hand. In fact, I had just been thinking there ought to be a better way, since the way the Scott article was going, it was likely that what one learned about Scott on Wikipedia was going to alternate back and forth, day by day, forever, and an encyclopedia that says one thing one day and deletes that thing the next day in an ongoing cycle is not very encyclopedic. I'll read up on dispute resolution and see what's to be done. Thanks again for calling my attention to the error of my ways. Monkeyzpop 09:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi - a minor issue, not to split hairs but I notice some inconsistency in your decisions of re-naming ArbCom cases. For example, with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan, you changed the name from "Siddiqui, Nadirali et al." Now you renamed "Cabalism" to "Hkelkar 2." Well the inconsistency is that you didn't want to have the title make assumptions, but the "India-Pakistan" title did make assumptions of a 2-nation dispute instead of a dispute strictly between users along opposite national, religious points of view. Frankly it made the ArbCom seem like the UN. I believe your reasoning for "Hkelkar 2" is the right one. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 15:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Just out of curiousity, where could I find any attack by Khabs on Mattisse? I'm not saying he wasn't a returning Ekajati. I have no way of knowing. But I just looked through his contribs (not thoroughly, I'll admit), and I couldn't find an article they even both edited on, nor a post on her talk page, nor one by her on his. All his conflicts seem to have been with BackMaun. I don't want to do anything with this info, I'm just curious where it might be, and how I missed it. Rosencomet 18:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
According to Mattisse, I removed comments from Fred Bauder's talk page and you blamed her for it. I have no idea what she's talking about, nor was I aware that anyone removed anything from Fred Bauder's talk page. I certainly did nothing of the sort. What's going on? Wal ton Need some help? 12:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I would like to draw your attention to user:MarshallBagramyan. He is engaged in massive rv's on Azerbaijan-Armenia related page. On page Armenian Revolutionary Federation he removed text with 5 refrences without any discussion and moreover threatened to report me to Arbcom [1]. I was already once insulted on that page by other users which was a part of Arbcom consideration.-- Dacy69 14:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I filed RfC per your advise. Unfortunately, -- MarshallBagramyan continue to make personal attack on contrubutor - you can read the end of this message [2], rather on concentrating on dispute content. I will continue developing arguments for RfC but I don't expect that opponents will be willing to work towards solution, taking into account continued attacks.-- Dacy69 14:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
this is a new one [3] - how I am supposed to work when I am constantly under attacks.-- Dacy69 16:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
and just came from user:Fedayee [4] - only personal attack - no discussion of the content-- Dacy69 21:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
See my answer here. Thatcher131 14:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
*sigh* Thatch, I am honestly exasperated of seeing these reports. None of the users who have problems with me exhaust the talk page and after one slight disagreement, where there is no serious attempt to remedy the situation, it's off to admins. to complain about my "problematic behavior". What I could see is that my revert was fully justified from the previous discussions at the Nakhichevan page. I have collected the sources which were cited in the Nakhichevan talk page which include but are not limited to:
Those sources supported what was is said about the Armenians in Nakhichevan in the 1600 period. For some reason, they are insufficent for Grandmaster.
My second revert was here: [9] Grandmaster added the word “allegedly” in regards to the Armenian monuments and removed the word “alleged” for the destruction of Azerbaijani monuments claiming that it was part of the original quote. But alas, there are no quotation marks since it is in my own wording and no actual support of the statement by the statesmen in the respective article Is this a good faith edit?
The article which I wrote presents the destruction of the Khachkars as a position not as a fact, and Grandmaster removed the term “alleged” for the claims of destruction of Azerbaijani monuments, preferring to present it as truth in the Khachkar article which doesn’t even present the destruction of Khachkars as truth. Grandmaster also removed other pieces of info without discussion [10] and yet he criticized for my revert of Dacy69's edit, for something which was already discussed in the past while here, he removes something without even going to the talk page.
The removal of the template questioning the article is justified; GM's reason for adding it has more to do with the fact that he opposes the fact that those Khachkars were destroyed, which is an inadequate reason to have it there.-- MarshallBagramyan 22:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
It's not a fork and I never intended it to be one. You stated that the article "Khachkar Destruction" encompassed the destruction of khachkars regardless of their location. Fine with me, and that's why it doesn't have to cover the destruction in Nakhichevan in such great detail. The distinction is like an article on Hurricanes and Hurricane Katrina, one focuses on hurricanes in general whereas the other focuses on a particular hurricane. GM's flip flopping on whether or not to keep the Khachkar Destruction article can be found in the AFDs. First GM was opposed to it because it was only on Nakhichevan but then voiced support for it once it included Armenians mismanaging their own khachkars (something AdilBaguirov cleverly exploited in the midst of the two nominations); it goes double for Dacy and the other users who made sudden about faces when they no longer wanted the article to disappear.
So now we're stuck with two articles. The name of the first article was supposed to be "Khachkar Destruction in Nakhichevan" but because the user who created it left out the last two words, Adil took advantage of this and decided to add two Armenian sources that don't even support a thesis that the khachkars are being destroyed: moved, yes, mismanaged, yes, desecrated by ignorant youth, yes; but just because their end result ended up in some khachkars being damaged does not fit the definition of something as abrasive as the word "destruction". Otherwise, all other mentions of the words "khachkar" and "destruction" refer solely to those in Nakhichevan.
Most of the info found on Julfa can be deleted and all we have to do is add an internal link to "Khachkar Destruction" and mention some info about it. GM would never accept these fringe Armenian sources under different circumstances, sources that don't even correspond to what the article is about. There's more than enough independent sources on the Khachkar Destruction in Nakhichevan page to warrant its own article whereas those khachkars in Armenia do not even fit the definition of Wikipedia's Notability guidelines.-- MarshallBagramyan 06:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Please look back at the aforementioned sources before you accuse me of distortion. I'm not going to explain myself again as to why your assertion that Muslims who were removed (not from Nakhichevan since there is little mention of them) formed a majority is deeply flawed. In regards to this comment The quote should be presented the way it is, it is pretty obvious that those words are the opinion of the person quoted. I'm not quoting the official, that is why there are no quotation marks. Since the official's comments are uncorroborated by any sources, his opinion remains "alleged". Just because someone says something in a news article, doesn't mean that it is true, and that's why words and phrases like "stated", "said", "according to" are used. If we were to go by your logic, then we could have easily removed all such words in the article, presenting the Khachkar destruction as an absolute, 100%, undoubtable fact and every such controversial statement as indusputable pieces of evidence.-- MarshallBagramyan 16:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Much as I appreciate your attempt to resolve problems at 1929 Hebron massacre with Edit warring, I fear you are missing the point. The article in its current form is unfit to be in the encyclopaedia. It's been hi-jacked by POV, it reads like propaganda - and that's because it is propaganda. Just as one example, in the lead, it says "The massacre also led to the re-organization and development of the community defense organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces.", when many/most of the settlers were already armed for offense (eg Jabotinsky "The Iron Wall" 1923). PalestineRemembered 15:28, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
You have no credibility with me any more. Ban me if you want to so. Fred Bauder takes me as a joke. Rosencomet can go on and on introjecting comments into other people talk pages for months and you do nothing. I believe you are biased. That is my opinion. If you go back and make Rosencomet do the same, remove his introjected comments (we will forget the introjected comments by 999, Hanuman Das, Ekajati etc., the protected sockpuppets} that you chose to overlook then I will do the same. Until you apply your authority fairly I feel no obligation to be singled out for discrimination. HeadlessJeff 16:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Example:
(posted on ANI as soon as he found out he was on my case) Jefferson Anderson, please do no delete material from my user page again
I'm sure many of you are familiar with the interesting history of Mattisse ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been criticized for mass tagging sprees, not the least of which is connected to a great number of articles created by Rosencomet ( talk · contribs) and involving the Starwood Festival. Mattisse has been subject to many checkuser cases, some of which are documented here, which resulted in a block, here, and here, which resulted in a longer block (1 week) for inappropriate uses of sockpuppets.
Well, an RfC and a mediation case are still ongoing regarding Rosencomet and the Starwood Festival articles. It was recently brought to my attention that Mattisse approached another user involved in the disputes, complaining about an article that one of Mattisse's own confirmed socks created, apparently as a device to discredit other parties in the mediation and create an impression of impropriety. I feel this action warrants a longer block. Thoughts? -- Ars Scriptor 16:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Are you available at all for help or can you suggest someone. Everyone seems to be clearly supporting Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. I think it would be fair for me to get some help in this situation.
Regarding your comment here, I was hoping for a second opinion on whether a block is warranted here. While technically no "new" abuse of sockpuppets occurred, I feel that Mattisse brought up that article in order to create a disruption. She knows that parties involved in the disputes are monitoring other participants' talk pages, and she knows that posting that link would draw more negative attention to the Starwood articles. I don't know if she actually forget she wrote it, or if she thought no one would notice, but I personally have seen enough of editors' time wasted on the entire matter. -- Ars Scriptor 22:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I realize that no new abuse of sockpuppets has occurred. The actions taken under the Flinders account are in the past. However, I seriously question the motives of Mattisse in suddenly posting about an article that the Flinders account created. Mattisse has to know that everyone has the Talk pages watchlisted of everyone involved in this, and would see the post. If anything, I would expect that she would want the matter forgotten.
-- Ars Scriptor 00:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Lets face it, AGF never did apply to me. And I started out an idealistic user and remained so until today. HeadlessJeff 17:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Jefferson Anderson shows up on my talk page on January 12, having had no interactions with me before and posts the following many posts all on that day, then lists me as a rude editor on his user page along with a Mattisse sockpuppet box. January 12 sequential diffs:
The last edit summary I made asking him not to post on my page again has been used repeadedly since as an example of my harrassment of him. On January 18 he posts on my talk page again: [37] I am suspicious of him now because he posted on my page repeatedly without knowing me, his subject was sockpuppet (known preocupation of Hanuman Das and Ekajaki), he was overly invested in me as shown by his posts, after I apologised deeply three times, he listed me as a rude editor and posted the Mattisse sockpuppet box on his user page. Why would a disinterested user invest so much time in me? Sincerely, Mattisse 15:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Do be aware that this is not the first time Mattisse has gone on a tagging spree. The first time she tagged every article listed in Starwood Festival. She then created multiple sockpuppets to continue tagging the same set of articles. Several of us suspect that Timmy12 is a sockpuppet being used by Mattisse to do such tagging now. Ekajati ( yakity-yak) 19:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
If you believed my original explanation and AGF none of this would have come up:
--Mattisse--
Regarding your comment here, I was hoping for a second opinion on whether a block is warranted here. While technically no "new" abuse of sockpuppets occurred, I feel that Mattisse brought up that article in order to create a disruption. She knows that parties involved in the disputes are monitoring other participants' talk pages, and she knows that posting that link would draw more negative attention to the Starwood articles. I don't know if she actually forget she wrote it, or if she thought no one would notice, but I personally have seen enough of editors' time wasted on the entire matter. -- Ars Scriptor 22:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for the lack of AGF for me. It outlines what has happened so clearly. I never realised completely until today. HeadlessJeff 17:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Note I will read the above and reply by e-mail tonight. Thatcher131 17:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
(from Ekajaki's archives> Have you filed a checkuser request for this? -- Aguerriero ( talk) 19:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
-- Aguerriero( talk) became User:Ars Scriptor and "retired" over the weekend after I asked why he reverted my edits upon User:Ekajati's request, just because she asked and without knowing anything about the situation, other than Ekajati had asked User:Anger22 to do so before who complied without knowing anything about the situations either. User:Anger22 called me a "troll" but that is O.K. as User:Ekajati certainly was not. Oh, well. It's only the dispensible Mattisse. No point in protecting her. HeadlessJeff 18:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I will do so. I was thinking of talking a wikibreak while Mattisse finishes self-destructing, and your note convinces me that that is the right thing to do. Jefferson Anderson 19:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
User:Jefferson Anderson chose to stalk me there as he does everywhere. So his stalking me is my fault too. I guess that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. I am the cause of everything. I keep forgetting that. Dumb me! Dumb! HeadlessJeff 19:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Wow. Here I was about to enter a challenge to Mattisse's statements and ask why you keep protecting her, but you've obviously suffered enough. I had no idea how disrespectful she was being to you. I suppose I should have expected it, since she's treated just about every arbitrator and advocate she's interacted with the same way, even if they support her but just not as agressively as she'd like (as in your case, to some extent); Fred Bauder, SilkTork (formerly Steve Caruso), etc. etc. What amazes me most is that she can't see herself as having provoked the reactions of other editors at all; she is convinced that she has always been, and is now, the poor poor victim. Or at least that's the way she's acting; for someone claiming to be a psychologist, you'd either expect more introspection if she's really as oblivious as she claims, or simply be fed up with the manipulation if she's not. In any case, you must have the patience of a saint. Are you even her advocate, or have you just ended up in this position?
Anyway, I don't think I have to repeat my position. Timmy12 is, or was, whatever he/she was. BackMaun and Alien666 and RasputinJSvengali may be a return for him/her, but if I read you right, there is no way to find out. A checkuser was never run on Timmy12 either (for reasons that baffle me), so we'll never know if Mattisse and he/she shared an IP address either, regardless of an arbitrator's assertion that there was not enough similarity between their editing to assert they were the same. And if Mattise edited as HeadlessJeff at some time before she made it known that this is a signature for her, I guess that will not be known, either. I could just be remembering that wrong, I suppose, or mixing it up with a similar name. (NearlyHeadlessJeff?) :-)
Putting all that in the past, there are a few things we know right now: that Fred Bauder ran a checkuser on Mattisse, BackMaun and Alien666 recently which showed that they shared an IP address, that there is a lot of similarity between their (and RasputinJSvengali's) editing and who's work they target, that BackMaun has locked horns with the same people as the others and made reference to these same conflicts on my talk page, William M. Connolley's and Jefferson Anderson's in an accusatory if not outright hostile manner, and that both BackMaun and Mattisse are still editing (BackMaun as recently as April 21st). Mattisse has never even stated point blank that there is no connection between herself, BackMaun, and Alien666, just objected to the meanies accusing her of it. If they ARE the same, then we have a multiple sockpuppeteer who used them from the time she began editing (May 2006) until she was caught (September 2006) - five months, not "a few weeks in September" - who insists she has stopped the behavior (which, may I remind you, included creating fake articles and attributing them to other editors), but is in fact not only editing that way again but instigating conflicts between editors again and being abusive to advocates and arbitrators.
I believe this cannot be ignored or swept aside. The past is past, but this is present behavior. I'm sure you've heard the definition of insanity that characterizes it as doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome, and I think we would be crazy to think that IF this IS what's going on (and I don't command the technology to check this, only you and your colleagues do) it will stop by just calling it "old news", or accepting insincere apology number twenty-nine or whatever, and letting there be no consequences. Other editors have been banned for far less; this must IMO at least be pursued and determined once and for all. Fair is fair.
And I thank you for your consideration and patience. I do not want to add to your stress, and I certainly will assume good faith in your desire to be even-handed. I can only hope this unpleasantness will end, and I am so sorry to see the thankless way your efforts have been received. I have had my disagreements with one or two "people in power" on Wikipedia, however that works, but I have to greatly respect anyone willing to put their necks out and deal with this contentious and often immensely frustrating chore. More power to you. Rosencomet 20:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Do you think it is fair that people should be disciplined without being told what they have done wrong? I put a lot of effort into making it as easy as possible for you to tell me why you consider my behavior inappropriate. May I please have the simple courtesy of being told what exactly you found offensive? James S. 19:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to mark the ips that had been banned on that page (if you have a semi automatic way of doing this). I really do not want to do it by hand :P -- Cat chi? 20:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
But a checkuser was run on Timmy12 and me (Mattisse) and came up negative. But who cares about the facts. We make reality by postings, not real evidence. Sincerely, -- HeadlessJeff 20:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I have explained about my grandchildren. It was ridiculed by Rosencomet and others as the "Granny defense" among other places on the ANI pages. I just can't find it. I explained on BostonMA's talk page among other pages which was copied and passed around and ridiculed. This is hopeless. I cannot defend myself and I cannot get help. How can I take easy? -- people like you with power can take it easy. I have to worry every single day. Don't make fun of me now -- please, please! --Mattisse 01:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
--Mattisse 01:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please someone help me. Can you recommend someone to help me. I do not know how to find lost links. I have been looking. Is there a person that can help me? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 02:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Jefferson Anderson, please do no delete material from my user page again
I'm sure many of you are familiar with the interesting history of Mattisse ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who has been criticized for mass tagging sprees, not the least of which is connected to a great number of articles created by Rosencomet ( talk · contribs) and involving the Starwood Festival. Mattisse has been subject to many checkuser cases, some of which are documented here, which resulted in a block, here, and here, which resulted in a longer block (1 week) for inappropriate uses of sockpuppets.
Well, an RfC and a mediation case are still ongoing regarding Rosencomet and the Starwood Festival articles. It was recently brought to my attention that Mattisse approached another user involved in the disputes, complaining about an article that one of Mattisse's own confirmed socks created, apparently as a device to discredit other parties in the mediation and create an impression of impropriety. I feel this action warrants a longer block. Thoughts? -- Ars Scriptor 16:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Please note: there are two examples of the "granny defense" which it is claimed I never tried to explain. -- Mattisse 02:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
While I am really leaving WP for a bit and coming back with a new account, in the interests of fairness, there is another user who also insistently believes that I was part of the Ekajati ring. That user is WeniWidiWiki, who is also vehemently opposed to Rosencomet and has recently had a small tussle with him over the new Jeff Rosenbaum article created by Badagnani: [39], [40], [41], [42]. It seemed necessary to mention this, I'd hate to see Mattisse continue to be distressed if Alien666, BackMaun and RasputinJSvengali are actually being run by a different puppetmaster.
Also, could you please protect both my user and talk page the way I left them (with just the template)? TIA. Jefferson Anderson 15:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
-- Mattisse 16:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Could you please protect my user talk page and user page from further vandalism from Jefferson Anderson and others? I noticed he requested that above and I assume you will do it. The last time you turned me down. Perhaps in the interest of beginning to AGF with me you will. Thank you. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 16:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please stop dragging up the past. There is not one fault I have committed since fall of last year. I have been punished for all my sins long ago. Have you looked at my user page and seen the barnstars I have received? I am asking you to not equate my edit history with that of Jefferson Anderson. Would you desert 18,000 excellent mainspace edits made in less than a year, when I have done nothing wrong since last summer?
If you would please move on from the past and AGF toward me, which I can see is very difficult for you, I believe the situation would improve greatly. Meanwhile I have received much positive feedback from other editors who do not seem to have the AGF problem toward me as you do, although they know the story. "Please try a little harder" -- as Janis Joplin sang. Therefore, I will not be taking your advice of following in Jefferson Anderson's shoes so kindly offered to my in your email Sincerely, -- Mattisse 17:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Remove all the references hip hopjazzproduction etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.244.219 ( talk) 18:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC).
I have spoken to your head office I am playing wiki world game I have had enough now it is ok to slander me have your members stalk me find my address and commit brand damage then turn around waste my time etc etc. I am telling you and far as I am concerned that is enough. If you do not allow me to play by your rules. Even though they breach real world rules and common sense then you fix it. Take all references to hiphopjazzproductions.com hiphopjazzproduction.com flo2flo.com and harmonicazone.com I have not even used flo2flo on here some guy just traced it to me and added that to the harassment fix it. I spoke to your head office I have played the game I want it done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.244.219 ( talk • contribs)
If you and Rosencomet (and the now unknown Jefferson Anderson) can also move forward, I believe there will be no more problems for me. From these sources is where all my problems stemmed, once the organised sockpuppet ring was closed down. Sincerely, Mattisse 17:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[43] This diff exists in the history of my user page. It identifies Alien666 and BackMaun as sockpuppets of Mattisse as identified by checkuser. If you are not the right person to ask, could you direct me to the correct person? Thank you. Sincerely, Mattisse 19:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Hey, why arent you guys dont anything about Elsanaturk: [45]? Azerbaijani 22:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering why my comment was removed after 7 days. Artaxiad had caused additional disruption with sockpuppets and has threated to create more. Should I start a second ArbCom case? -- Cat chi? 23:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please provide me evidence with diffs to support your claims, and please do not count Jefferson Anderson attacking me three days after he registered. I have only been kind to Rosencoment. I have apologized twice, which he has not accepted. I have not edited his article for 10 months, and then never maliciously although I did go over board naively on the tagging for which I regret and I apologise once again. Yes, when I was stalked by a sock puppet ring for almost a year I got unnerved and rattled and depressed. But I was never uncivil, I never left attacks in edit summaries,I did no stalk people or trash their articles, nor recruit other editors to revert the work of others. I tried to be friendly with Ekajaki and Hanuman Das. I did edit vey good articles, which seem to be disregarded by you completely. You recommend I desert an excellent record of editing? 18,000 mainspace article? Really? Why would I bother with Rosencomet and neopaganism when I am not even interested in the subject and risk my excllent editing record over a subject I can nothing about? Yes, the link spam bothered me. But I quickly dropped out of that and left others to deal with it.
For months I did not even know what was going on until I was accused of being a sock puppet of Timmy12. I had not been paying attention and so did not know about all that, did not know even that Timmy12 existed. I had new friends and new interests and articles to write. Please AGF and stop accusing me of holding a grudge. Please let this go. I did everything I knew how to do the right thing. Yes, once in a while I became completely unhinged because I am not invincible and do falter on occasion when under extreem duress, when ANI's were filed constantly againt me before I knew enough to know about ANI pages. Remember, this was an organised sock puppet after me. I never pretended to be perfect. But that you would even suggest I desert my edit history is incredible. I have been involved in many Feature Articles. I am very hurt and insulted that you disregard my hard work done for Wikipedia and think that I would risk my reputation and work over the likes of the articles of Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. I know you take me for a dope but I am not that stupid. I care about being a good editor and regarded and sought after as such. I value that. What you accuse me of does not make sense!
Stop trashing me, please! And stop equating me with Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson as if we are similar people. Please, please, please drop this grudge against me. I will not be able to edit again until you do and until you can muster a minuscule amount of AGF toward me. You seem to be on a mission against me on this grudge issue. -- Mattisse 02:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. (you will accuse me of lacking AGF, but do you find it strange that within minutes of posting my retirement, Jefferson Anderson was blanking my pages? No?) -- Mattisse 02:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You told me be for that he had not but I looked at the histories and he had. -- Mattisse 03:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC) Then you told me there was no way to protect. So if I leave for a few day I am lost. -- Mattisse 03:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Altho you said he had not, he had blanked parts of pages. Loot at the history. How can I stop it? -- Mattisse 03:41, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
If I had not seen it happen, if I were not on the web, if I were on vacation or something, how can that be prevented from happening again. He was obviously stalking me (I know that is not AGF) but it happne d immediately after I put that sign up. Mattisse 04:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
But I must be constantly figulant against this sort of thing. I am not worrying about my articles being vandalisd now. -- Mattisse 04:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You used to never answer me, so things have improved, I guess. Mattisse 04:32, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if you are addressing me or not. I also don't know what you mean. What did you delete? I looked at the history and cannot figure out what you did, nor whether it was harmful or helpful to me. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 15:09, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You posted this to my talk page:
[47] This diff exists in the history of my user page. It identifies Alien666 and BackMaun as sockpuppets of Mattisse as identified by checkuser. If you are not the right person to ask, could you direct me to the correct person? Thank you. Sincerely, Mattisse 19:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
[48] a similar diff in the history of my user page. Could you direct me to someone who can help me with this problem? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 19:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I checked and found that an anonymous IP user had unfairly labled you a sockpuppet. Probably Ekajati. I assumed you wanted the edit removed, so I did so. I also found some other abusive edits (such as calling you mentally unstable) and I removed them as well. Thatcher131 15:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Re your recent messages to me. I thank you for helping me on this as I have not been able to get any help before. Except for one kind person at the Village Pump all my requests for such removals have been ignored.
Since you implied that such labeling is not allow if it is not true, does that mean it is allowed if it is true? Please answer this. Sincerely, Mattisse 16:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I said it before and I'll say it again; you've got the patience of a saint. In the words of Stan Lee, 'Nuff Said. Rosencomet 16:46, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I have no idea where that is and I am sure that is a complex administrative maze. Second, you are saying that each time a vandal blanks a portion or sub portion of my page while I am gone, I must go and request and justify why each should be restored. And this means I have to spend a great deal of time hunting the blanking down by going through histories, diffs etc. I am taking an indefinite wikibreak because I am exhausted from the last 10 months of harassment and having to try to protect myself. You are suggesting that I return, only to encounter again having to go through the same exhausting process of getting diffs and searching histories and collecting diffs again?
I wish you you be so kind and gracious to me as you were to the sock puppet ring and as you are now to Jefferson Anderson, acknowledged (by you) harassor, now free to roam and harrass under a new identity. O.K. Block me for not having the proper AGF. You have insulted me by suggesting I reduce my edit history to the level of Jefferey Anderson's and that my record is just as immaterial. I believe that is the level of your respect for me which is not much considering what I have contibuted positively to Wikipedia. As I mentioned above I am #407 on the list of most prolific contributors (using no bots and such -- those were real edits). And you suggest to show AGF to my harassor, I desert that record. That is not AGF of you to me. Sincerely, Mattisse 16:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I will save my pages as text files, and past them back in when I return. That is the only solution I can thing of. And, by the way, I am mentally unstable at this point, and would recommend Wikipedia only for hardened criminals. -- Mattisse 16:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Mattisse seems to have begun a campaign of unsigned sockpuppet tags on past comments made by Ekajati & Co. on Talk:Starwood Festival. Rosencomet 17:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I know you never bothered to notice that except for the overboard tagging on the Starwood related articles and the result of having to be involved in related mediations, arbitrations, and RFC's, I have never edited neopagan articles and have no interest in the subject whatsoever, so I find it insulting that you imply that I must "restrain" myself from editing them, since I never do anyway. Please stop insulting me by email in every which possible way. It is clear from your email that you think I am BackMaun (more AGF from you) so I respectfully ask you not to send me any more insulting emails. -- Mattisse 18:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
You have speculated at length in you email about my manipulative behavior, my motivations, my intrigues and dishonesty and worse. You describe my motivations as they exist in you mind and how I hide manipulativeness and the truth. You see me in the worst imaginable light. You do me the favor of offering to raise myself to the level of Jefferson Anderson to start over. With your permission, I would like to publish that email. I feel like I have been kicked in the gut. Sincerely, -- Mattisse 18:37, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
In my e-mail to you I treated you with dignity. I acknowledged that you were harassed by a nasty sockpuppeteer who took a long time to catch. I suggested that one way to rebuild your reputation was to drop your grudges; another way is to start with a fresh account. I did all of this privately. You have responded publically by focusing on the second suggestion, being very offended, stating that you are insulted and never want to deal with me again (while still asking for my help, by the way). I suggest you think about the first suggestion I made. Thatcher131 20:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Since in order to file any kind of complaint against you, and I know I stand no chance of a good outcome, I need to start a discussion with you. First I want to know where you obtained your certainty of the "facts" about me and my motivations (AGF). Second, I would like to know what you really think my motivations are, as you see them, and from where could they stem? What could they possibly be? I am not interested in Starwood. I was trying to help Wikipedia. Please explain how you evolved these byzantine beliefs about my motivations, my fixation on neopaganism (could not be further from the truth) and made them into reality in your head and probably those of others you influence? The worst possible reality that could be concocted from the so-called "facts" is what you invented. Then you send me an insulting letter that assumes that your speculations are true (AGF) and that I can redeem myself by lowering myself to the level of Rosencomet and Jefferson Anderson. Why? Please explain. And please expain why I got no help or guidance in the Arbitration and could not even get questions answered from you? Is it because you had already formed your opinion? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 19:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. I want to use your letter to me as evidence. -- Mattisse 19:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I know you are fair and even handed so I know you reverted the many that have been labelled as my sockpuppets too on that very same page . You would not be partial to Rosencomet I know. Should I sent you a list of all the other pages that have such sockpuppet comments about me on them? Sincerely, -- Mattisse 20:44, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar | ||
For an excellent email attempt to save a long time editor. AnonEMouse (squeak) 20:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC) |
You clearly don't have enough of these! -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 20:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I do not understand why I have been banned for two months from three different articles. In the case of Randolph Scott I accept that I was blocked for 24 hours as I was part of an edit war, although I only tried to reinstate a well-sourced passage repeatedly deleted by another user. However, I do not accept the ban in the other cases.
This user even mangled direct quotes from books as my former opponent did. See, for instance, [61]. And he even repeatedly removed content from talk pages. See [62], [63], [64], [65], [66], or, using the IP217.196.238.133, [67]. What I have tried is simply reinstating all those passages this user has deleted or mangled. Interestingly, the same person/sockpuppet is also deleting passages from the Nick Adams article. See [68] or, using another sockpuppet, [69], [70], [71], etc. This user must also be identical with IP203.202.144.22 (see [72], [73], etc.) and this newly created sockpuppet. Therefore, would you please lift my ban and instead ban my opponent and his sockpuppets. He is the disruptive force as he is frequently deleting large blocks of sourced material from the articles on Elvis Presley and Nick Adams. Thank you. Onefortyone 03:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
As for the Randolph Scott article, I am sure we can work out the dispute without edit warring. Onefortyone 02:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your blocking notice for me on the Randolph Scott gay war. I did indeed engage in "edit-warring," though I did not know there was a name for it. I also did not know there was an alternative to it. Thanks to your block, I know now. I've gotten quite involved in editing in the past few months, but confess I don't understand a lot of the officially sanctioned means and methods. I'll study up. I've tried very hard to bring non-POV, cited material into play in various articles, and to eliminate POV or uncited provocative material, and in this particular case, I let the "you can't beat me" game get out of hand. In fact, I had just been thinking there ought to be a better way, since the way the Scott article was going, it was likely that what one learned about Scott on Wikipedia was going to alternate back and forth, day by day, forever, and an encyclopedia that says one thing one day and deletes that thing the next day in an ongoing cycle is not very encyclopedic. I'll read up on dispute resolution and see what's to be done. Thanks again for calling my attention to the error of my ways. Monkeyzpop 09:14, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi - a minor issue, not to split hairs but I notice some inconsistency in your decisions of re-naming ArbCom cases. For example, with Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan, you changed the name from "Siddiqui, Nadirali et al." Now you renamed "Cabalism" to "Hkelkar 2." Well the inconsistency is that you didn't want to have the title make assumptions, but the "India-Pakistan" title did make assumptions of a 2-nation dispute instead of a dispute strictly between users along opposite national, religious points of view. Frankly it made the ArbCom seem like the UN. I believe your reasoning for "Hkelkar 2" is the right one. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 15:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Just out of curiousity, where could I find any attack by Khabs on Mattisse? I'm not saying he wasn't a returning Ekajati. I have no way of knowing. But I just looked through his contribs (not thoroughly, I'll admit), and I couldn't find an article they even both edited on, nor a post on her talk page, nor one by her on his. All his conflicts seem to have been with BackMaun. I don't want to do anything with this info, I'm just curious where it might be, and how I missed it. Rosencomet 18:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
According to Mattisse, I removed comments from Fred Bauder's talk page and you blamed her for it. I have no idea what she's talking about, nor was I aware that anyone removed anything from Fred Bauder's talk page. I certainly did nothing of the sort. What's going on? Wal ton Need some help? 12:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)