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Hello, Tar-Elenion, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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Vox Rationis
23:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes I do like the image you have created, but I do feel that Tomislav should be added to it, to represent the past, and Eric Bana should be tehre to represent the diaspora outside of Europe. — King Ivan 07:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I mostly agree with your edits, I just did some small correction. I agree that old Raguseans were Italian AND Croat, and not Italian AND Croat. We can continue in this way. Greetings. About the Ragusan names, it can be ok to list them according to the articles, but they are not always correct. I'd prefer a more neutral criteria. It shold be important in the article to point old Raguseans were a meeting point between two civilation. In the present time, people perefere to demonstrat that they were Italian or Croat (or Serbs). Greetings-- Giovanni Giove 18:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry with my gramatic mistake, i´m a spanish spoken! Ragusino
This term is in use now, the term "Serbo-Croatian" is abandoned in scientifical literature in 1990's, because of its negative political and cultural conotations.
Source:"Hrvatski leksikon", 1995. I'll post you the details of the book later.
Kubura
14:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
Let's go to the point.
Tar, read the articles on en.wiki regarding former Yugoslavia and languages of peoples in former Yugoslavia.
The official languages of SR Serbia, SR Montenegro and SR Bosnia and Herzegovina was called "Serbocroat language" (srpskohrvatski) or "Serb or Croat" language (srpski ili hrvatski).
In SR Croatia, official name was "Croat or Serb language" (hrvatski ili srpski jezik).
Factually, "Croat or Serb language" differed from todays Croat language mostly in purism/in imposed internacionalisms, "equalizing with Serb language" (derogatively among some academists called: "jednačenje po srpskosti") etc.. Regarding this, I'll post you some links later. I've read so many books and magazines (scientific), that I've forgot where have I read all those stuff.
Second, leave a remark about "Torlakian" as dialect. You'll make users from those parts of Serbia angry because of that. If you don't want to remove that, OK, as you wish, but than you're on your own to deal with them.
Regarding the diasystem and the term, if you're familiar with some Croatian linguistic names,
Radoslav Katičić ("milder" author), proposed that term as mostly neutral. He also wrote in "Hrvatski leksikon 1 A-K", p.545, Naklada leksikon d.o.o., 1996, that: "...term Serbocroatian was heavily "burdened" with language policy that was being implemented; the same policy had aim to push out and "crumble" Croat standard language, so that Serb language can take over the place of Croat language among Croats".
There some other authors and works that deal with this topic, but this is the first thing that I had in my handreach. There are also authors, that deny that diasystem.
However, they all agree that term Serbo-Croatian is heavily compromised.
Greetings,
Kubura
20:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
We can always make a redirect. Still, I'll try to inform you about the new details, post the links etc..
Regarding other diasystems, I won't do anything, I don't know any other "common" names.
It's important that I haven't made this name up.
I won't do anything on the article, I don't want to make edit wars.
But, it's still really hard to see the term "Serbo-Croatian" on the list. It's a reminder on the language-submission policy, and it's offending to Croats.
BTW, where does your interest for Croatian topics comes from?
Kubura
08:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
Regarding the name of "Central S.Slavic", I think that it'd be much easier with users from former YU, than with scientists and students of Slavistics, "Serbocroatistics" from the outer world.
Those from former country 'll understand this, I can put my money on that. Still, there's a procedure for renaming of article (when there are opponents). And I have to prepare some text to add.
Regarding Serbocroatian language, we have to be careful. There was a language that was official under that name in some former YU socialist republics (Serbia, Montenegro, B&H). We shouldn't mix it with the official language in SR Croatia (described in upper text).
The one in Serbia was in fact, completely Serb language (ekavian base), the one in B&H had ijekavian base, and lexic nigh-on-to that in Serbia; Montenegro had some specialties (besides ijekavian base).
About other diasystems, I don't dare to do anything.
Sincerely,
Kubura
08:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
I'd like to copy our discussion (from our talk pages) regarding diasystem on the talk page of diasystem article. That'll help in possible future edit wars between other "newcoming" users. I mean, that'll help in avoiding edit wars.
Do you agree?
Kubura
15:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
You cannot delete a source and the fact that it sources and ask for sources in the edit summary at the same time.
This is from the ol' Encyclopedia Britannica:
Tar, don't remove those sources. Those sources compromise the users who cited them.
I'll post you the links and references that'll proove that theirs sources are compromised, outdated, unneutral, driven by stereotypes, based on false/falsified/wrong data etc...
Don't get into edit wars; edit wars compromise your reputaion on wiki. Rather ask people for help. Wiki-users 'll gladly help you.
"Serbian literature of Ragusa and Dalmatia in 18th century"? There was no Serbia in 18th century. Second thing is, there was more elephants in southern Croatia in those times than Serbs.
Kubura
16:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Slavica Ecclestone. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. -- tariqabjotu 16:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I took it directly from the Encyclopedia Britannica 1911. See it for yourself. That is not a quotation from Britannica Enc. 1911. Currently, this can be found online. That is the modern Britannica Enc. It is interesting that all of Britannica up to the most recent four editions (post-1990) considered him a Serb, but deleted it and then finally (at the modern) wrote "his father was a Croat".
So in other words you can not verify this. Let's go back at the Wikipedia verifiability policiy, shall we? Please remain calm & civil. I don't understand what you mean - I just did verify it. Talking about Wikipedia's policy, it is you who asked for sources and deleted them at the same time. So are you simply saying that all those sources are POV, just because they claim something which yo do not? Don't get offended, but that looks as if you don't like them just because you don't like what they claim. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Talking 'bout connections to Serbia, his father was connected to Serbia. :) But that's another subject. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
You asked me what on earth connected a certain man by the name of Nikola Boskovic to Serbia. I replied. I don't understand why you talk like an Indian (Native American) Chief. :) -- PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to point out to you that despite your warning [1] to Paulcicero he again reverted the page [2] continuing the revert-war. Tar-Elenion 17:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Why do you keep changing peoples ethnicity when you have no sources? Please stop reverting my edits and stop using sockpuppets to make me brake the 3RR rule. Paulcicero 16:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
He has just accused me of have a sockpuppet?! -> [3] I wasn't even on Wikipedia at the time, I am not sure but isn't this kind of prohibited to accuse someone without any evidence? Also please note that he is also constantly revert-warring. Can you do something about all this? Tar-Elenion 20:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe you, and even if these IPs in the end are not you, you have caused enough disruption revert-warring to warrant this twenty-seven-hour break. I'll be filing a request for checkuser soon to confirm whether these are really you. -- tariqabjotu 21:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I just read what you said on "requests for checkuser" page [4]. Your statement "Note also this 3RR violation notice added by one of these two IPs, followed by Tar's acknowledgment of Paulcicero's response to it. I find it highly-suspicious that just happened to see that." Well if you look closer you will see that Paulcicero notified me on my talk page that "I stop reverting his changes". Of course surprised since I wasn't even here I followed his contributions and see that he has a curent revert-war with above mentioned anons, I then proceed to report it to you and to reply to Paulcicero, hoping that you will warn him not to throw such ridiculous accusations and of course pointing out that he is again revert-warring. And you come to such ridiculous concnlusions?! I can't believe you will sooner believe someone like Paulcicero and accuse me of such things. I have nothing to do with 58.xxx whatever IP's, It is not my fault this person (or persons) are making the same revert's to the article List of Serbs. You may have noticed I gave up from that article, yes I did a couple of reverts there but realized this article is crap anyway so if they want to add the "Queen of England" they can. Tar-Elenion 22:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, you have been revert-warring heavily (that was used as a justification for your 22-hour block), and one specific edit of yours could even be seen (in a certain way) as trolling - but that's not the point. I am merely investigating all options, having on mind how much damage the troll Afrika paprika has done to the Wikipedian community. -- PaxEquilibrium 15:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way - why did you delete the sockpuppetry case from your talk page and notified it as clean-up? -- PaxEquilibrium 15:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes I have - and I see revert-warring on Roger Joseph Boskovic and Slavica Ecclestone. It is irrelevant if something is "false", for the preservation of accuracy we keep all posts, and if they overload, we simply archive them. I will quote the administrator that unblocked you after 22 hours of your block: "checkuser for sockpuppetry returns "unrelated"; block served so far is sufficient for revert-warring".
I'm sorry if I offended you in any way - I asure you that was not my intention, but since you say that there's something to be reported at WP:ANI, I strongly urge you to do so, because that's the only way to preserve peace and tranquility. In the case that your last post was a threat (it could be understood that way; referring to the "zero degree tolerance" bit), please do not intimidate other Wikipedians, as that's simply not what Wikipedia is NOT about. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I also strongly urge you yo report it to WP:ANI Paulcicero 20:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Why have you removed protections from History of Croatia, Medieval Croatian state and Kingdom of Croatia? The protection there was for a reason (revert-warring) and now that you removed it without no explnation the revert-war continues. Tar-Elenion 11:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, yes; you have offended me in a way. Your replies were highly uncivil (and I noticed that you were threatening me twice). I'm sorry, but I have present convincing indications to pull up a CheckUser request. You might not be revert-warring right now, but ya did before. Anyway, this is totally irrelevant.
Please remain calm & civil. I called you an edit-warrior, simply because I call anyone who fights edit wars "revert-warring people". You negated it yet again, but that's simply what you did do (observing all your contributions to the Wikipedia).
You were not cleared, the Check User failed because you were inactive so no one could track your down. Which AFAIK did not surprise us; Afrika paprika has created hoards of sock-puppets before and it's expectable that he became experienced by now (you were inactive right during the first CheckUser - there is a possibility that you did this to hide the data). And in the end; the Check-User that searched if you're a puppet of User:Afrika paprika - it came out positive.
Next to the "proof that I have that you're an edit-warrior" (though I don't see the relevance of mentioning this), there are tons of proofs that you're Afrika paprika's sock-puppet. First, you both have similar interests & write in a very similar way. Second and most important, Check User showed that you're Afrika paprika. And in the end, a user encouraged you, addressing to you "Afrika paprika" in Serbo-Croat (Croatian). Aside from tens of other weird coincidences, you appear to have showed up exactly when Afrika paprika stopped constantly appearing as an anon using your IP address. -- PaxEquilibrium 18:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Considering that we've met so far hundreds of thousands of sock-puppets and Wikipedia meets them almost on a daily basis and the fact that I met hundreds myself (the greatest number coming from Afrika paprika), sock-puppetry is a "very regular" thing.
In the end Check-User showed that you're Afrika paprika; and not decline it. Let's say you (which seems quite possible) evaded the check-user? How could the fact that "it's declined" count? In the end, Check-User says that you are Afrika paprika, rather. Compare the IPs with that of your own (the very last few digits only change to resemble the date when you edit).
I have numerous proofs (which I previously presented), the strongest and most convincing one being Check-User. -- PaxEquilibrium 19:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.
Please do not make personal attacks like you did in the edit summary calling me a "..lunatic..". The edit was fully justified (by various indications, most notably the Check-User). Note that I will be forced to report you if make more personal attacks so please remain calm & civil. -- PaxEquilibrium 19:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll post this one to WP:AN/I in a moment -- looks a bit too complicated for me to act unilaterally. – Luna Santin ( talk) 19:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry if I seem too harsh, but I do this in the best interests of Wikipedia.
I will not "leave you" as long as you disobey Wikipedia's policy. If you (or anyone else) is going to stay here, he/she will have to obey at least the basic of Wikipedia's policies regarding civility and no personal attacks. It is my (and everyone else's) duty that you realize that & the moment you do so - it will our (my) greatest victory (totally excluding the whole sock-puppetry incident right now). -- PaxEquilibrium 21:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Although it is "your" page, you don't own any page on Wikipedia. This is standard procedure for cases like this; it notifies a possibility of sock-puppetry. Please do not remove it. -- PaxEquilibrium 22:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
No I'm not. I'm trying to show you a volatile attitude never helps. Please (I beseech thee) be calm & civil.
I am a mortal, which means that I do make mistakes (sometimes more frequent than not). In this case however, I am completely convinced. -- PaxEquilibrium 12:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
You have called me a lunatic on Kubura's talk page even though I kept warning you that there is no excuse for making personal attacks. Consider this your last warning.
As for the sock-puppetry case, you're right, I'll leave it to the investigation; I think I owe you an apology (if you're not Afrika paprika; which I am completely convinced that you are). Can we not at least agree at one thing, that you leave the tag for the time being? -- PaxEquilibrium 20:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am not a sockpuppet! Please unblock me.
Decline reason:
And I'm not a pilot. Fly me to the moon. — Pilot guy ( go around) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I warned you Afrika; no matter how many sock-puppets you create to try to deceive us further, always shall we discover you. -- PaxEquilibrium 15:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am NOT AfrikaPaprika! What is wrong with you people?!?
Decline reason:
The argument presented in the block rationale is persuasive. — Sandstein 20:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Of course you're not AfrikaPaprika! You're Afrika paprika. :) -- PaxEquilibrium 20:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I know about that, Tar.
Don't loose your nerve.
Stay calm.
If the admins tell you something what to do and what NOT to do, than listen to them and do what they say.
Otherwise, you'll earn blocking and other various wiki-punishments, not to mention that your reputation'll decrease seriously.
Don't use derrogative words like "idiot", "lunatic" and similar. Everything you say can be turned against you, it only gives the arguments to those who have something against you.
Don't get into any edit wars at all.
Don't remove wiki-tags, if the admin has put them on your userpage!
Don't respond to Pax's provocations.
That's what he recently did, at least to me - he annoyed me, and when I didn't reacted (as he expected and hoped, see his "accusation"), he blamed me, no more no less, that I'm the sockmaster of an entire troll army.
He also harassed (wright word, see the words usen on the revision of your userpage from 01:57, 10 March 2007 by user Daniel.Bryant) me with changing the content of my userpage.
If "...he goes around and tell to other users that you're a sockpuppet...", that's forbidden by wiki-policy! That's the attempt to discredit an user. Person is innocent until the arguments proove the opposite!
The messages like "consider this your last warning" and "I've warned you" are getting towards threat and intimidation.
See what wiki-policy says about that:
[5]:
Harassment is defined as a pattern of disruptive behavior that appears to a reasonable and objective observer to have the purpose of causing negative emotions in a targeted person or persons, usually (but not always) for the purpose of intimidating the primary target. The purpose could be to make editing Wikipedia unpleasant for the target, to undermine them, to frighten them, or to encourage them to stop editing entirely..
For this what he did (
[6],
[7],
[8],
[9],
[10], that's explicitly forbidden.
Ordinary user can't allow that to himself.
Pax is not an admin, and he has no right to do such things.
See these lines on the same wikipedia-policy page: "User space harassment -
Placing numerous false or questionable 'warnings' on a user's talk page, restoring such comments after a user has removed them, placing 'suspected sockpuppet' and similar tags on the user page of active contributors, and otherwise trying to display material the user may find annoying or embarrassing in their user space is a common form of harassment."
Mention this, when you want to complain to admins about Pax's behaviour/statements.
And, stay calm, don't overreact. Otherwise, admins won't listen to you as you would like to. Neither any ordinary user 'll stand on your side.
If you're not some kind of troll, don't be afraid.
My advice is: work like you normally did. No edit wars.
Sooner or later, some admin will start to ask questions about certain user's behaviour.
Kubura
19:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am not AfrikaPaprika
Decline reason:
Unblock abuse. — Yamla 03:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
BTF I would really like to see this "proof" for my block? Where is Bbatsell and his review of all this?
Also for admins and all others know that if I don't get my case reviewed and unblocked I will re-register again, I am not AfrikaPaprika and I will not stand for this crap. Getting people blocked (what PaxEquilibrium is doing) because of personal disputes is the lowest of the low. Tar-Elenion 21:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
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Hello, Tar-Elenion, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
Wikipedian! Please
sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}}
on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! --
Vox Rationis
23:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes I do like the image you have created, but I do feel that Tomislav should be added to it, to represent the past, and Eric Bana should be tehre to represent the diaspora outside of Europe. — King Ivan 07:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I mostly agree with your edits, I just did some small correction. I agree that old Raguseans were Italian AND Croat, and not Italian AND Croat. We can continue in this way. Greetings. About the Ragusan names, it can be ok to list them according to the articles, but they are not always correct. I'd prefer a more neutral criteria. It shold be important in the article to point old Raguseans were a meeting point between two civilation. In the present time, people perefere to demonstrat that they were Italian or Croat (or Serbs). Greetings-- Giovanni Giove 18:23, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry with my gramatic mistake, i´m a spanish spoken! Ragusino
This term is in use now, the term "Serbo-Croatian" is abandoned in scientifical literature in 1990's, because of its negative political and cultural conotations.
Source:"Hrvatski leksikon", 1995. I'll post you the details of the book later.
Kubura
14:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
Let's go to the point.
Tar, read the articles on en.wiki regarding former Yugoslavia and languages of peoples in former Yugoslavia.
The official languages of SR Serbia, SR Montenegro and SR Bosnia and Herzegovina was called "Serbocroat language" (srpskohrvatski) or "Serb or Croat" language (srpski ili hrvatski).
In SR Croatia, official name was "Croat or Serb language" (hrvatski ili srpski jezik).
Factually, "Croat or Serb language" differed from todays Croat language mostly in purism/in imposed internacionalisms, "equalizing with Serb language" (derogatively among some academists called: "jednačenje po srpskosti") etc.. Regarding this, I'll post you some links later. I've read so many books and magazines (scientific), that I've forgot where have I read all those stuff.
Second, leave a remark about "Torlakian" as dialect. You'll make users from those parts of Serbia angry because of that. If you don't want to remove that, OK, as you wish, but than you're on your own to deal with them.
Regarding the diasystem and the term, if you're familiar with some Croatian linguistic names,
Radoslav Katičić ("milder" author), proposed that term as mostly neutral. He also wrote in "Hrvatski leksikon 1 A-K", p.545, Naklada leksikon d.o.o., 1996, that: "...term Serbocroatian was heavily "burdened" with language policy that was being implemented; the same policy had aim to push out and "crumble" Croat standard language, so that Serb language can take over the place of Croat language among Croats".
There some other authors and works that deal with this topic, but this is the first thing that I had in my handreach. There are also authors, that deny that diasystem.
However, they all agree that term Serbo-Croatian is heavily compromised.
Greetings,
Kubura
20:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
We can always make a redirect. Still, I'll try to inform you about the new details, post the links etc..
Regarding other diasystems, I won't do anything, I don't know any other "common" names.
It's important that I haven't made this name up.
I won't do anything on the article, I don't want to make edit wars.
But, it's still really hard to see the term "Serbo-Croatian" on the list. It's a reminder on the language-submission policy, and it's offending to Croats.
BTW, where does your interest for Croatian topics comes from?
Kubura
08:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
Regarding the name of "Central S.Slavic", I think that it'd be much easier with users from former YU, than with scientists and students of Slavistics, "Serbocroatistics" from the outer world.
Those from former country 'll understand this, I can put my money on that. Still, there's a procedure for renaming of article (when there are opponents). And I have to prepare some text to add.
Regarding Serbocroatian language, we have to be careful. There was a language that was official under that name in some former YU socialist republics (Serbia, Montenegro, B&H). We shouldn't mix it with the official language in SR Croatia (described in upper text).
The one in Serbia was in fact, completely Serb language (ekavian base), the one in B&H had ijekavian base, and lexic nigh-on-to that in Serbia; Montenegro had some specialties (besides ijekavian base).
About other diasystems, I don't dare to do anything.
Sincerely,
Kubura
08:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Tar.
I'd like to copy our discussion (from our talk pages) regarding diasystem on the talk page of diasystem article. That'll help in possible future edit wars between other "newcoming" users. I mean, that'll help in avoiding edit wars.
Do you agree?
Kubura
15:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
You cannot delete a source and the fact that it sources and ask for sources in the edit summary at the same time.
This is from the ol' Encyclopedia Britannica:
Tar, don't remove those sources. Those sources compromise the users who cited them.
I'll post you the links and references that'll proove that theirs sources are compromised, outdated, unneutral, driven by stereotypes, based on false/falsified/wrong data etc...
Don't get into edit wars; edit wars compromise your reputaion on wiki. Rather ask people for help. Wiki-users 'll gladly help you.
"Serbian literature of Ragusa and Dalmatia in 18th century"? There was no Serbia in 18th century. Second thing is, there was more elephants in southern Croatia in those times than Serbs.
Kubura
16:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly, as you are doing in Slavica Ecclestone. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. Rather than reverting, discuss disputed changes on the talk page. The revision you want is not going to be implemented by edit warring. Thank you. -- tariqabjotu 16:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I took it directly from the Encyclopedia Britannica 1911. See it for yourself. That is not a quotation from Britannica Enc. 1911. Currently, this can be found online. That is the modern Britannica Enc. It is interesting that all of Britannica up to the most recent four editions (post-1990) considered him a Serb, but deleted it and then finally (at the modern) wrote "his father was a Croat".
So in other words you can not verify this. Let's go back at the Wikipedia verifiability policiy, shall we? Please remain calm & civil. I don't understand what you mean - I just did verify it. Talking about Wikipedia's policy, it is you who asked for sources and deleted them at the same time. So are you simply saying that all those sources are POV, just because they claim something which yo do not? Don't get offended, but that looks as if you don't like them just because you don't like what they claim. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Talking 'bout connections to Serbia, his father was connected to Serbia. :) But that's another subject. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
You asked me what on earth connected a certain man by the name of Nikola Boskovic to Serbia. I replied. I don't understand why you talk like an Indian (Native American) Chief. :) -- PaxEquilibrium 19:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to point out to you that despite your warning [1] to Paulcicero he again reverted the page [2] continuing the revert-war. Tar-Elenion 17:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Why do you keep changing peoples ethnicity when you have no sources? Please stop reverting my edits and stop using sockpuppets to make me brake the 3RR rule. Paulcicero 16:39, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
He has just accused me of have a sockpuppet?! -> [3] I wasn't even on Wikipedia at the time, I am not sure but isn't this kind of prohibited to accuse someone without any evidence? Also please note that he is also constantly revert-warring. Can you do something about all this? Tar-Elenion 20:36, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't believe you, and even if these IPs in the end are not you, you have caused enough disruption revert-warring to warrant this twenty-seven-hour break. I'll be filing a request for checkuser soon to confirm whether these are really you. -- tariqabjotu 21:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I just read what you said on "requests for checkuser" page [4]. Your statement "Note also this 3RR violation notice added by one of these two IPs, followed by Tar's acknowledgment of Paulcicero's response to it. I find it highly-suspicious that just happened to see that." Well if you look closer you will see that Paulcicero notified me on my talk page that "I stop reverting his changes". Of course surprised since I wasn't even here I followed his contributions and see that he has a curent revert-war with above mentioned anons, I then proceed to report it to you and to reply to Paulcicero, hoping that you will warn him not to throw such ridiculous accusations and of course pointing out that he is again revert-warring. And you come to such ridiculous concnlusions?! I can't believe you will sooner believe someone like Paulcicero and accuse me of such things. I have nothing to do with 58.xxx whatever IP's, It is not my fault this person (or persons) are making the same revert's to the article List of Serbs. You may have noticed I gave up from that article, yes I did a couple of reverts there but realized this article is crap anyway so if they want to add the "Queen of England" they can. Tar-Elenion 22:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, you have been revert-warring heavily (that was used as a justification for your 22-hour block), and one specific edit of yours could even be seen (in a certain way) as trolling - but that's not the point. I am merely investigating all options, having on mind how much damage the troll Afrika paprika has done to the Wikipedian community. -- PaxEquilibrium 15:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way - why did you delete the sockpuppetry case from your talk page and notified it as clean-up? -- PaxEquilibrium 15:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes I have - and I see revert-warring on Roger Joseph Boskovic and Slavica Ecclestone. It is irrelevant if something is "false", for the preservation of accuracy we keep all posts, and if they overload, we simply archive them. I will quote the administrator that unblocked you after 22 hours of your block: "checkuser for sockpuppetry returns "unrelated"; block served so far is sufficient for revert-warring".
I'm sorry if I offended you in any way - I asure you that was not my intention, but since you say that there's something to be reported at WP:ANI, I strongly urge you to do so, because that's the only way to preserve peace and tranquility. In the case that your last post was a threat (it could be understood that way; referring to the "zero degree tolerance" bit), please do not intimidate other Wikipedians, as that's simply not what Wikipedia is NOT about. -- PaxEquilibrium 16:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I also strongly urge you yo report it to WP:ANI Paulcicero 20:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Why have you removed protections from History of Croatia, Medieval Croatian state and Kingdom of Croatia? The protection there was for a reason (revert-warring) and now that you removed it without no explnation the revert-war continues. Tar-Elenion 11:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, yes; you have offended me in a way. Your replies were highly uncivil (and I noticed that you were threatening me twice). I'm sorry, but I have present convincing indications to pull up a CheckUser request. You might not be revert-warring right now, but ya did before. Anyway, this is totally irrelevant.
Please remain calm & civil. I called you an edit-warrior, simply because I call anyone who fights edit wars "revert-warring people". You negated it yet again, but that's simply what you did do (observing all your contributions to the Wikipedia).
You were not cleared, the Check User failed because you were inactive so no one could track your down. Which AFAIK did not surprise us; Afrika paprika has created hoards of sock-puppets before and it's expectable that he became experienced by now (you were inactive right during the first CheckUser - there is a possibility that you did this to hide the data). And in the end; the Check-User that searched if you're a puppet of User:Afrika paprika - it came out positive.
Next to the "proof that I have that you're an edit-warrior" (though I don't see the relevance of mentioning this), there are tons of proofs that you're Afrika paprika's sock-puppet. First, you both have similar interests & write in a very similar way. Second and most important, Check User showed that you're Afrika paprika. And in the end, a user encouraged you, addressing to you "Afrika paprika" in Serbo-Croat (Croatian). Aside from tens of other weird coincidences, you appear to have showed up exactly when Afrika paprika stopped constantly appearing as an anon using your IP address. -- PaxEquilibrium 18:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Considering that we've met so far hundreds of thousands of sock-puppets and Wikipedia meets them almost on a daily basis and the fact that I met hundreds myself (the greatest number coming from Afrika paprika), sock-puppetry is a "very regular" thing.
In the end Check-User showed that you're Afrika paprika; and not decline it. Let's say you (which seems quite possible) evaded the check-user? How could the fact that "it's declined" count? In the end, Check-User says that you are Afrika paprika, rather. Compare the IPs with that of your own (the very last few digits only change to resemble the date when you edit).
I have numerous proofs (which I previously presented), the strongest and most convincing one being Check-User. -- PaxEquilibrium 19:23, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.
Please do not make personal attacks like you did in the edit summary calling me a "..lunatic..". The edit was fully justified (by various indications, most notably the Check-User). Note that I will be forced to report you if make more personal attacks so please remain calm & civil. -- PaxEquilibrium 19:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll post this one to WP:AN/I in a moment -- looks a bit too complicated for me to act unilaterally. – Luna Santin ( talk) 19:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry if I seem too harsh, but I do this in the best interests of Wikipedia.
I will not "leave you" as long as you disobey Wikipedia's policy. If you (or anyone else) is going to stay here, he/she will have to obey at least the basic of Wikipedia's policies regarding civility and no personal attacks. It is my (and everyone else's) duty that you realize that & the moment you do so - it will our (my) greatest victory (totally excluding the whole sock-puppetry incident right now). -- PaxEquilibrium 21:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Although it is "your" page, you don't own any page on Wikipedia. This is standard procedure for cases like this; it notifies a possibility of sock-puppetry. Please do not remove it. -- PaxEquilibrium 22:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
No I'm not. I'm trying to show you a volatile attitude never helps. Please (I beseech thee) be calm & civil.
I am a mortal, which means that I do make mistakes (sometimes more frequent than not). In this case however, I am completely convinced. -- PaxEquilibrium 12:20, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
You have called me a lunatic on Kubura's talk page even though I kept warning you that there is no excuse for making personal attacks. Consider this your last warning.
As for the sock-puppetry case, you're right, I'll leave it to the investigation; I think I owe you an apology (if you're not Afrika paprika; which I am completely convinced that you are). Can we not at least agree at one thing, that you leave the tag for the time being? -- PaxEquilibrium 20:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am not a sockpuppet! Please unblock me.
Decline reason:
And I'm not a pilot. Fly me to the moon. — Pilot guy ( go around) 17:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
I warned you Afrika; no matter how many sock-puppets you create to try to deceive us further, always shall we discover you. -- PaxEquilibrium 15:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am NOT AfrikaPaprika! What is wrong with you people?!?
Decline reason:
The argument presented in the block rationale is persuasive. — Sandstein 20:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Of course you're not AfrikaPaprika! You're Afrika paprika. :) -- PaxEquilibrium 20:01, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I know about that, Tar.
Don't loose your nerve.
Stay calm.
If the admins tell you something what to do and what NOT to do, than listen to them and do what they say.
Otherwise, you'll earn blocking and other various wiki-punishments, not to mention that your reputation'll decrease seriously.
Don't use derrogative words like "idiot", "lunatic" and similar. Everything you say can be turned against you, it only gives the arguments to those who have something against you.
Don't get into any edit wars at all.
Don't remove wiki-tags, if the admin has put them on your userpage!
Don't respond to Pax's provocations.
That's what he recently did, at least to me - he annoyed me, and when I didn't reacted (as he expected and hoped, see his "accusation"), he blamed me, no more no less, that I'm the sockmaster of an entire troll army.
He also harassed (wright word, see the words usen on the revision of your userpage from 01:57, 10 March 2007 by user Daniel.Bryant) me with changing the content of my userpage.
If "...he goes around and tell to other users that you're a sockpuppet...", that's forbidden by wiki-policy! That's the attempt to discredit an user. Person is innocent until the arguments proove the opposite!
The messages like "consider this your last warning" and "I've warned you" are getting towards threat and intimidation.
See what wiki-policy says about that:
[5]:
Harassment is defined as a pattern of disruptive behavior that appears to a reasonable and objective observer to have the purpose of causing negative emotions in a targeted person or persons, usually (but not always) for the purpose of intimidating the primary target. The purpose could be to make editing Wikipedia unpleasant for the target, to undermine them, to frighten them, or to encourage them to stop editing entirely..
For this what he did (
[6],
[7],
[8],
[9],
[10], that's explicitly forbidden.
Ordinary user can't allow that to himself.
Pax is not an admin, and he has no right to do such things.
See these lines on the same wikipedia-policy page: "User space harassment -
Placing numerous false or questionable 'warnings' on a user's talk page, restoring such comments after a user has removed them, placing 'suspected sockpuppet' and similar tags on the user page of active contributors, and otherwise trying to display material the user may find annoying or embarrassing in their user space is a common form of harassment."
Mention this, when you want to complain to admins about Pax's behaviour/statements.
And, stay calm, don't overreact. Otherwise, admins won't listen to you as you would like to. Neither any ordinary user 'll stand on your side.
If you're not some kind of troll, don't be afraid.
My advice is: work like you normally did. No edit wars.
Sooner or later, some admin will start to ask questions about certain user's behaviour.
Kubura
19:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Tar-Elenion ( block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser ( log))
Request reason:
I am not AfrikaPaprika
Decline reason:
Unblock abuse. — Yamla 03:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{ unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
BTF I would really like to see this "proof" for my block? Where is Bbatsell and his review of all this?
Also for admins and all others know that if I don't get my case reviewed and unblocked I will re-register again, I am not AfrikaPaprika and I will not stand for this crap. Getting people blocked (what PaxEquilibrium is doing) because of personal disputes is the lowest of the low. Tar-Elenion 21:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
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