I thank you all for your Diwali wishes. I was away on vacation and couldn't reply you earlier. I read each one of your wishes and please treat this as a personal "thank you" note. I've also taken note of other messages too. Please give me some time to respond to them while I complete my non-wiki stuff. Thanks. -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 04:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Please let me know if I am mistaken. Thanks and belated Deepawali wishes. Sarvagnya 10:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
And since I now know what wikistalking is, I can assure you that I'd be editing the pages I edit, whether or not Parthi or anyone else edits those pages. And since I now know what wikistalking is, I fear that Arya and Mahawiki may be indulging in exactly the same thing. I request you to please check(I am talking about Carnatic music, not SJSA).
Also, about the articles in question(Sangam and Sangam lit.,) which I presume you're talking about, I certainly feel that I have discussed my edits on the talk page to a fault. Even to the point of being verbose perhaps. e.g.,. I also feel that everyone has to AGF a little more. This is the kind of admin mediation that could probably have prevented Mahawiki vs Kannada editors go downhill as badly as it did. Thanks for your timely intervention. Sarvagnya 11:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Mahawiki 13:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundarbhai, I do not deserve so many barnstars! Needless to say, I appreciate it a helluva lot. As for FA drives, those are my raison d'etre. Whenever I can be of use, lemme know. Thanks again, Rama's arrow 13:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
When I started my second editor review, I had no idea how greatly helpful it would be to me. Here are people from across the world who I've never met or laid eyes upon, taking their personal time to think about me and offer me valuable criticism and advice. And the stuff I've learnt is more helpful in real life than just on Wikipedia. This is an experiment I will never forget. I thank you most sincerely for your kindness, for helping me be a better person. I am very much in your debt. Rama's arrow 15:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I was not aware that wikistalking is offensive otherwise I'd have reported Venu62's actions long back. Please see [ [1]] and [ [2]] to see who is stalking whom.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 20:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, just to keep you informed about Venu62's actions, not that you have to do anything:
See evidences of his wikistalking (all within the last 1-2 days immediately after my edits, and on a wide variety of topics in which he hasnt taken done a single edit earlier):
Teshub, Slavic Mythology , Kerala Kalamandalam, Chembai, Chembai Sangeetholsavam, Tamil Trinity
These are only a small sample, if you want I can give more. Now you say, isn't my case of stalking and harrasment made?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 08:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I have no particular barrow to push as far as this article is concerned. My only role since the dispute started is to offer support to User:Aadal, who has the knowledge in Carnatic music. My position is to be inclusive. As I have stated many times in the CM talk page, we don't claim that the Ancient Tamil music was/is identical to Carnatic music of today. All we want to document that the evolution of Carnatic music had many influences including the Ancient Tamil music. In this context, the contributions of the Tamil Trinity and Cilappatikaram et al are relevant to lay the ground work of prevailing environment in South India which helped the music system to evolve. Now this is not to deny that other influences such as the Kannada music or Andhra music did not have any influence. I simply do not have the knowledge in them. User:Srkris and others seem to brush aside anything that they don't agree with or have any knowledge of. For example this user even claimed that Cilappatikaram doesn't even represent Tamil culture as its author may have been a Jain! - Parthi talk/ contribs 21:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, sorry that I'm using your talk page to explain. My stand is that ATM is a parallel tradition which eventually died out, after leaving some of its influence in Carnatic Music. This has nothing to do with Tamil vs Sanskrit names etc. There have been many Tamil Carantic Composers who are well recognized. I am just saying Silappathikaram music is not Carnatic Music by any stretch, and swaras were never referred to by their ATM names by any Carnatic Musician at any point of time. I love Tamil and everything about Tamil as much as you or Venu62 or Aadal do, but that is not relevant here, and I want to clarify this!-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
08:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to what Venu62 says above, he was the one who started the dispute, after I registered my protest against his unreasonable reverts - just see the talk page. He invited Aadal into it and passed on the mantle to Aadal, and acts innocent now. He has been stalking me as I have pointed out above. He has been threatening me in my talk page, see
[3]. Please also have a look
my level of civility in my message to him versus
his in reply.-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
08:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
With this kind of bad blood running between you, I doubt if mediation would be effective. I'm afraid, it'll go for arbitration, in which case it'll be tiresome and painful. -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 08:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, you now understand the level of animosity Venu62 has been displaying towards me. I can show you more such actions of his. If there's a misunderstanding between me and Aadal regarding the CM article, why does Venu62 have to interfere or attack me personally and engage in wikistalking (i.e harrassment)? If you see the very first heading on the CM talk page, it was his arbitrary reversals which made me complain against his high handed behaviour. I never ganged up with Sarvagna or anyone else. They (Sarvagna etc) just agreed with my views about Venu62 and they themselves decided to proceed along with me. I have already shown you a sample of my message in his talk page and how he replied in my talk page for it. He said initially "To use an Aussie term, dont get your knickers in a knot over this". You can understand his politeness level with a stranger.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 16:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The reason I'm telling you all this even though you stood in support of Venu62 like a friend, is because I am convinced of your neutrality and fairness, and also to show who has been causing greater offence here. I am ready to apologise for any offense I have caused to anyone, I know I have, but what I have been receiving in return is much worse.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 16:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Are you accusing me of spamming? Are you aware that my links had nothing to do with spamming (even if Venu62 claims so maliciously)? The issue was that even external links that are related to the topic at hand are not allowed on wikipedia if they are from forum threads. I had posted some such threads on many articles and Venu62 calls it spam. It is regrettable that you are toeing his line. Venu62's wikistalking has nothing to do with this however. Whether he has contributed for 1 FA or a hundred does not give him immunity to disrupt or harrass other editors. -- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 11:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
How is adding threads of a carnatic music forum in related carnatic music articles considered spamming? I did not have the habit of logging into WP often until lately, so most of my edits have been anonymous before September. Also please note I had provided only relevant threads in corresponding WP pages - like adding a forum thread URL containing discussions on thyagaraja in the WP Thyagaraja article, adding the URL containing discussions on ragas in the WP ragas article etc. Everything was directly relevant to the article. But it is WP policy not to add pages of forums in external links - this is what I learnt later. Is it called spamming? Would a spammer apologise for unintentionally going against WP's rules and explain what went wrong? Do you understand what I did before accusing me?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 15:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi I am not accusing you of having malicious intent. Maybe you were not aware of my edits when you said I am not aware of rules regarding spamming. I know what is spamming, but this is not spamming. It's about placing completely relevant external links on related articles (directly relevant to the topic of the article). Wikipedia does not call it spamming although links to fora and websites associated with the editor are discouraged. Spamming means mass flooding with intent to compromise the integrity of wikipedia or post unrelated links which are not directly related to the topic or post commercial links which hold very little or no content for it to be useful to wikipedians. What I did is not spamming by any stretch. A spammer does not voluntarily identify himself or own up to his folly. I am sure you know this much. You asked "why no anonymous content edits?". I have done a lot of anonymous content edits, although it wont appear in the same IP address since I dont have static IP. As I said, I have been logging on regularly only from September this year although I registered a year ago. Do you want a list of the content edits I have done anonymously?. What I am trying to do here is a gentle reminder of the famous Thirukkural "thIyinAl sutta puN...", and I hope you dont have to defend all the bad behaviour of Venu62, who still offends me with intent by calling me a spammer. I know that you had asked Venu62 to stop the acrimony, but I feel you are falling in line with him in assuming bad intent and using his insults (even without intent to offend). That said, I have no need prove my credentials, but I have the right to not be called a spammer when I am not one. Venu62 is not all hunky dory and I have found what his character is, but I dont have to prove it to anyone else, nor is my goal to harp on the past. I am merely requesting you to not label anyone with the words of your friends. Please form your own judgement.-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
01:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, you said "Kris, it takes a giant leap of faith (and probability too) to have all anonymous link addition edits to happen under a particular IP and content edits to happen under a different IP so neatly." I never said all my content edits come under a single IP address. Even all my link additions dont fall under a single IP, although I added the links in one day. I know fairly the articles which I have been editing and I can search the histories of those to get my edits. IPs of my edits usually start like 59.xx.xx. It doesnt mean all of them are the same IP address though. Please dont put words into my mouth that suit your preconceived notions (if any) and say that it requires giant leap of faith. I expected better understanding and expectation of good faith from you than from Venu62, but it looks that you are more interested in defending your friend than looking at the truth (sorry but no offense to you).-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
11:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I did note that your post was meant to be a voice of reason against Venu62's acidic comments, but you repeated Venu62's words and said that I was not aware of "rules regarding spamming". When I said that I apologised for not knowing wikipedia's rules (not for spamming which was never what I did, nor my intent), you said I did spam, you had come to Venu62's conclusion. I replied to you that I know what spamming is and I did not behave like a spammer. I told you what I did and what I didn't in my defense. I told you I can locate my anon edits, but since you had probably prejudged me as a spammer, you seemed to misinterpret my saying by assuming that I had made all content edits under a single IP and link edits under another IP. I had made a RfC for my link edits for which I got no response. Does a spammer do that? Since you have probably made up your mind, I saw no more reason to prove either mine or the actions of Venu62.
I said whatever Venu62's neutrality is, he is not above error. You are particularly unwilling to doubt Venu62's neutrality, but let me tell you neutrality is not set in stone. Its a relative position and while Venu62 may be more neutral than some, he may not be more neutral than all. Particularly since you know less about me than perhaps about Venu62, you should not be comparing me with him and say that he is neutral before me. Perception of neutrality itself is subjective. Oh well, I have no wish to brainwash you. You can believe what you want but pls be aware that repeating others acidic remarks and terms can be offensive and more when you stand by such unintended offense. Cheers-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 11:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Its not my agenda either to villify Venu62 beyond what he himself is doing. NPOV itself is a perception, and what appears as NPOV to one need not be so to another. To you, he may be impartial, but to me he is definitely a hardcore linguistic chauvinist, though he may not appear so to you. When you yourself (whom I consider greatly more neutral than him) have declared your POV, how do you expect people to buy your assertion that he is neutral? Please understand that I participate on many websites about tamil and I run a very successful forum on Tamil elsewhere. I can definitely make out who is a linguistic chauvinist and who is not, and I deal with students and scholars on languages, on a daily basis. This does not mean you have to buy what I say, nor am I going to announce my feelings to the world, but your certificate is not going to do him any good as far as the CM article is concerned. He has declared his ignorance on CM related topics in Aadal's talk page, and is simply hanging around to harrass me (as I have shown with diffs) since I'm in his bad books.-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
16:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello Sundar! I hope you had a good vacation and a wonderful deepavali. When you have some free time, could you take a look at these proposals for writing Tamil words in the Latin script and let me know what you think. You can comment directly against a proposal, or reply here, or on the talk page for the proposals as you prefer. I'd particularly appreciate your thoughts on the problem of representing ற். -- Arvind 21:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, this is a difficult comment to write. If you would be so kind, please read User:BostonMA#Dbachmann's use of ethnic, national and religious attributes of editors when making negative criticisms. You may note that it has changed since we last discussed. I'm sorry to say that I think matters have come to the point where an RfC seems to be the only way forward in resolving this issue. Since you and I had talked, there had been another remark made, and I wrote to dab suggesting that we ask your assistance to mediate, but he did not reply to my suggestion. Now there has been another remark. Although I think dab is very useful as a contributor, I think his use of words has a very negative effect on the community, and the situation, has gotten to the point where I don't think it can be tolerated any more. Although I am concerned that dab may just walk out in frustration if there is an RfC, I can't see this continuing. It sets a very bad example and encourages hostility along racial, ethnic, religious lines. I am hoping that you might be able to open the lines of communication with dab, so that an RfC might be avoided. Whatever efforts you may take in this direction would be very much appreciated. With a heavy heart, sincerely, -- BostonMA talk 14:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your prompt response .I have also redirected Palanivel Rajan to P. T. R. Palanivel Rajan.I had updated from 27th oct correcting wrong facts like he was speaker from from 1991-1996 while he was the speaker from 1996-2001 with the relevant links and add some more relevant facts with external links Thank you Harlowraman
Hi! How are you? I sent u a mail. Please check. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 16:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Ha Ha. I was going to write you a message on just that. Raul selected a different summary and pic from the one I had submitted. Too bad for your pic. ;-)-- thunderboltz (Deepu) 14:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Ref: Your query on West Bengal talk page if we need to mention the number of assembly constituencies and again the number of MLAs.
reply Well, number of Assembly Constituencies is 294 while that of MLAs is 295 (including one nominated from Anglo-Indian community). That's why it was thought that both should be mentioned. What do you think?-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 15:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Please see this Mahawiki 18:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, it is quite possible that you are discussing the matter I brought up via email, so please forgive me if this reminder is unnecessary. However, I did not want this issue to fall through the cracks. Please let me know in a general way how things are progressing. Thanks -- BostonMA talk 00:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, thanx for this message of a long time ago. I have been on a prolonged break and hopefully will come back to editing by and by. Regards, ImpuMozhi 02:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh sundar! why did u delete it? delete all marathi mentions there delete all marathi transliterations plz.this will make kannada editors happy.bye Mahawiki 06:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I was expecting that. :) I have restored old noticeboard title. Thanks, Ganeshk ( talk) 00:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, Can u start SundarBot in TW. -- Sivakumar \ Talk 09:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I have been trying to get some information on the ' Tamil Bell' found in New Zealand. This is all I could gather so far. There is no evidence that this bell was indeed from the Chola period. - Parthi talk/ contribs 05:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar. I have previously tried to follow the instructions for Linux (I run Suse 10.1) but the uyirmey letters are persistently inverted. I should try the Tamillinux mailing list to see if they can help. -- Arvind 09:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your efforts. I am saddened by the result. From your comment I assume that dab is either unwilling to make a committment to stop making references to the racial, ethnic, national or religious attributes of editors when he is making negative comments about those editors or their edits, or he is unwilling to discuss the matter with you.
I am now weighing whether to file an RfC. dab is a valuable resource to Wikipedia, is highly educated and a prolific contributor. My hope with regard to an RfC is that it would provide dab with community feedback regarding the use of racial, ethnic, national and religious attributes of editors when making negative comments. My hope is that the community would convey to dab that such comments are unnecessary, and inappropriate in the Wikipedia community. It is my hope that dab will receive such feedback from editors whom he respects. I known that there is some anger toward dab. My hope is that an RfC would not used as a vehicle for revenge or harrassment. Rather, I hope that community would clearly and sternly refocus editors who may be tempted to use the RfC for purposes other than to give dab the feedback described above. I am not yet committed to filing an RfC, and seek the input of others. I am especially eager to hear considerations that might dissuade me from an RfC. I do have a concern that dab may choose to leave Wikipedia. However, my current feeling is that the risk involved is outweighed by the need for DBachmann to receive clear feedback, especially from editors whom he respects.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts. As you suggested, I will send you an email address later today (US time) so that you may express your thoughts confidentially. Once again, I appreciate and thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, -- BostonMA talk 14:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure about the source, I got it by email and thought I could use it on a relevant article here. You can delete it if its against some copyright law. I got the date of the bell from http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm (click the "radical" button on the left)-- ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 17:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
OK. But how does a chinese ship carry a Tamil bell --- doesnt seem to be too much in line with history or logic. Radical means just radical finds, not altered history. Anyway I understood now that I cant put doubtful images on GDFL. Thanks for that bit of info. -- ॐ
Kris (
☎ talk |
contribs)
10:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey Sundar, thanks a lot for your support to my RFA... Had it not been for your initial encouragement, my DYKs would never have happened and if they had not happened, then in all probability this RFA would have sunk:) So thank you doubly! -- Lost (talk) 12:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar Thanks for correcting the mistakes in the current politics. I got that from the reference cited. I guess the information is wrong. I don't keep myself informed of the TN politics. I appreciate any corrects/inputs. I'm not sure whether the information on the current history is sufficience for completion of the article. I think we can move to FAC soon, don't you? Cheers Parthi talk/ contribs 08:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised you're surprised. IMO, modesty is not a virtue - I tell it like it is. W/o ur support, I wouldn't have half the FAs I've written and would still be "temperamentally unsuitable." Rama's arrow 16:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Google hits must not be taken as a sole yardstick in Asian related AfD's. Newspapers of Vernacular Languages may have millions of readership. For example, in India every state has its own language. There are more than 20 widely speaking native languages in India. But the news reports from the newspapers of such languages are not available in google search.Take the case of Malayala Manorama Newspaper. Currently this Malayalam language newspaper has a readership of over 9 million, with a circulation base of over 1.4 million copies according to Audit Beureu of Circulations. Manorama is one of the India's largest selling and most widely read news paper. There are more than 50 such newspapers in India. News reports from such dailies are not available in google eventhough it have millions of readership. But news reports from English dailies with 1000 or 2000 copies are available in google search. It is really misleading...Isn't it...? In this context of notability tests based on google hits may be a worthless, foolish effort. In such circumstances we must consider the words of native wikipedians with more importance. May I know ur valuable opinion ……? Nileena joseph ( Talk| Contribs) 05:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
No problem. Yeah, the talk page was left redirected because I forgot to finish archiving. Thanks for pointing this out. Saravask 06:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I dont have the book with me, now to provide you the exact line.- Bharatveer 09:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, I have Sastri's A History of South India (1955) OUP (reprinted 2000). The page number for BV's citation in the book I have is in page 117. The context is the the so-called Aryan influeces in the ancient Tamil Nadu. It states:
In other words, this is simply a throwaway line by Sastri with no elaboration on the subject. I hope this helps. Parthi talk/ contribs 10:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, Can you please check this and confirm if my understanding of the image copyrights is correct? Thanks, Ganeshk ( talk) 23:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
My name is Krishna Chaitanya. It was me who wrote completely the article "An Explanation for thy argument" in the talk page of the artcile Sanskrit. I feel that the talk page should be informative rather than argumentative. I dont know who wrote "It is not the nationwide language dears" in Talk page. I felt appalling about it and wrote an explanation for it. Thanks for finding the real one who wrote it. - User:Bsskchaitanya 12.48 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sundar, Here at Marathi Language Wikipedia want to use bots for spell check and correction of Devanagari Letters used in Marathi words; for example we want to replace 'ई.स.' from all article because gramaticaly it is wrong , we want to replace the same with correct version 'इ.स.' Another example is we want to replace wrong spell आणी with correct one आणि.
We will apreciate any help coming in, in this regard.Our relevant page for Bots in Marathi wikipedia is सांगकाम्या, Vilaage Pump discussion page is at विकिपीडिआ:चावडी/प्रगती and Wikipedia Embassy is at आंतरविकि दूतावास
Regards Mahitgar 08:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Mr.Sundar, Many Many thanks for your valuable suggestion and prompt support. I will keep in touch with you and get back to you if I get any queries.
Reagrds Mahitgar 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I want to use screenshot of the arrest of Karunanidhi in the for Karunanidhi midnight arrest.It was taken from SUN TV Karunanidhi111.jpg.Sun TV is owned by the Maran family .Maran was also arrested.Can I use it ?thanks Harlowraman
Can you talk some sense into Venu62? He has started stalking me again. For more information, see my talk page and his. Thanks. -- ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 11:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I wonder why name is appearing in the above discussion under the heading "Sastri's Book". But I wanted to clarify you that, the statement "KNM (talk • contribs) even stated that I "claim to be Tamil". " made by User:Bakasuprman is far from truth and I have never stated that. Thanks - KNM Talk 16:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Sundar. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could comment at Talk:India#Retaining_edits_made_by_the_ip. The section concerns this edit. It is quite heated, and it was revealed in the discussion that you and Nichalp made the decisions regarding the "Culture" section (specifically, the example lists); Nichalp has already commented, but the dispute is still ongoing. I cannot comment further there because my knowledge of South Indian holidays is apparently twenty years out of date. Thanks. Saravask 21:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, many thanks for all your help and support during the FA drive. Much appreciated. Cheers Parthi talk/ contribs 21:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like its in your alley of knowledge. Bakaman Bakatalk 17:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello! You look like someone who might be interested in joining the India WikiProject and so I thought I'd drop you a line and invite you! We'd love to have you help us :-) ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 14:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I thank you all for your Diwali wishes. I was away on vacation and couldn't reply you earlier. I read each one of your wishes and please treat this as a personal "thank you" note. I've also taken note of other messages too. Please give me some time to respond to them while I complete my non-wiki stuff. Thanks. -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 04:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Please let me know if I am mistaken. Thanks and belated Deepawali wishes. Sarvagnya 10:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
And since I now know what wikistalking is, I can assure you that I'd be editing the pages I edit, whether or not Parthi or anyone else edits those pages. And since I now know what wikistalking is, I fear that Arya and Mahawiki may be indulging in exactly the same thing. I request you to please check(I am talking about Carnatic music, not SJSA).
Also, about the articles in question(Sangam and Sangam lit.,) which I presume you're talking about, I certainly feel that I have discussed my edits on the talk page to a fault. Even to the point of being verbose perhaps. e.g.,. I also feel that everyone has to AGF a little more. This is the kind of admin mediation that could probably have prevented Mahawiki vs Kannada editors go downhill as badly as it did. Thanks for your timely intervention. Sarvagnya 11:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Mahawiki 13:34, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundarbhai, I do not deserve so many barnstars! Needless to say, I appreciate it a helluva lot. As for FA drives, those are my raison d'etre. Whenever I can be of use, lemme know. Thanks again, Rama's arrow 13:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
When I started my second editor review, I had no idea how greatly helpful it would be to me. Here are people from across the world who I've never met or laid eyes upon, taking their personal time to think about me and offer me valuable criticism and advice. And the stuff I've learnt is more helpful in real life than just on Wikipedia. This is an experiment I will never forget. I thank you most sincerely for your kindness, for helping me be a better person. I am very much in your debt. Rama's arrow 15:43, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I was not aware that wikistalking is offensive otherwise I'd have reported Venu62's actions long back. Please see [ [1]] and [ [2]] to see who is stalking whom.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 20:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, just to keep you informed about Venu62's actions, not that you have to do anything:
See evidences of his wikistalking (all within the last 1-2 days immediately after my edits, and on a wide variety of topics in which he hasnt taken done a single edit earlier):
Teshub, Slavic Mythology , Kerala Kalamandalam, Chembai, Chembai Sangeetholsavam, Tamil Trinity
These are only a small sample, if you want I can give more. Now you say, isn't my case of stalking and harrasment made?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 08:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I have no particular barrow to push as far as this article is concerned. My only role since the dispute started is to offer support to User:Aadal, who has the knowledge in Carnatic music. My position is to be inclusive. As I have stated many times in the CM talk page, we don't claim that the Ancient Tamil music was/is identical to Carnatic music of today. All we want to document that the evolution of Carnatic music had many influences including the Ancient Tamil music. In this context, the contributions of the Tamil Trinity and Cilappatikaram et al are relevant to lay the ground work of prevailing environment in South India which helped the music system to evolve. Now this is not to deny that other influences such as the Kannada music or Andhra music did not have any influence. I simply do not have the knowledge in them. User:Srkris and others seem to brush aside anything that they don't agree with or have any knowledge of. For example this user even claimed that Cilappatikaram doesn't even represent Tamil culture as its author may have been a Jain! - Parthi talk/ contribs 21:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, sorry that I'm using your talk page to explain. My stand is that ATM is a parallel tradition which eventually died out, after leaving some of its influence in Carnatic Music. This has nothing to do with Tamil vs Sanskrit names etc. There have been many Tamil Carantic Composers who are well recognized. I am just saying Silappathikaram music is not Carnatic Music by any stretch, and swaras were never referred to by their ATM names by any Carnatic Musician at any point of time. I love Tamil and everything about Tamil as much as you or Venu62 or Aadal do, but that is not relevant here, and I want to clarify this!-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
08:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Contrary to what Venu62 says above, he was the one who started the dispute, after I registered my protest against his unreasonable reverts - just see the talk page. He invited Aadal into it and passed on the mantle to Aadal, and acts innocent now. He has been stalking me as I have pointed out above. He has been threatening me in my talk page, see
[3]. Please also have a look
my level of civility in my message to him versus
his in reply.-- ॐ
Kris (
talk |
contribs)
08:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
With this kind of bad blood running between you, I doubt if mediation would be effective. I'm afraid, it'll go for arbitration, in which case it'll be tiresome and painful. -- Sundar \ talk \ contribs 08:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, you now understand the level of animosity Venu62 has been displaying towards me. I can show you more such actions of his. If there's a misunderstanding between me and Aadal regarding the CM article, why does Venu62 have to interfere or attack me personally and engage in wikistalking (i.e harrassment)? If you see the very first heading on the CM talk page, it was his arbitrary reversals which made me complain against his high handed behaviour. I never ganged up with Sarvagna or anyone else. They (Sarvagna etc) just agreed with my views about Venu62 and they themselves decided to proceed along with me. I have already shown you a sample of my message in his talk page and how he replied in my talk page for it. He said initially "To use an Aussie term, dont get your knickers in a knot over this". You can understand his politeness level with a stranger.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 16:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The reason I'm telling you all this even though you stood in support of Venu62 like a friend, is because I am convinced of your neutrality and fairness, and also to show who has been causing greater offence here. I am ready to apologise for any offense I have caused to anyone, I know I have, but what I have been receiving in return is much worse.-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 16:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Are you accusing me of spamming? Are you aware that my links had nothing to do with spamming (even if Venu62 claims so maliciously)? The issue was that even external links that are related to the topic at hand are not allowed on wikipedia if they are from forum threads. I had posted some such threads on many articles and Venu62 calls it spam. It is regrettable that you are toeing his line. Venu62's wikistalking has nothing to do with this however. Whether he has contributed for 1 FA or a hundred does not give him immunity to disrupt or harrass other editors. -- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 11:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
How is adding threads of a carnatic music forum in related carnatic music articles considered spamming? I did not have the habit of logging into WP often until lately, so most of my edits have been anonymous before September. Also please note I had provided only relevant threads in corresponding WP pages - like adding a forum thread URL containing discussions on thyagaraja in the WP Thyagaraja article, adding the URL containing discussions on ragas in the WP ragas article etc. Everything was directly relevant to the article. But it is WP policy not to add pages of forums in external links - this is what I learnt later. Is it called spamming? Would a spammer apologise for unintentionally going against WP's rules and explain what went wrong? Do you understand what I did before accusing me?-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 15:17, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi I am not accusing you of having malicious intent. Maybe you were not aware of my edits when you said I am not aware of rules regarding spamming. I know what is spamming, but this is not spamming. It's about placing completely relevant external links on related articles (directly relevant to the topic of the article). Wikipedia does not call it spamming although links to fora and websites associated with the editor are discouraged. Spamming means mass flooding with intent to compromise the integrity of wikipedia or post unrelated links which are not directly related to the topic or post commercial links which hold very little or no content for it to be useful to wikipedians. What I did is not spamming by any stretch. A spammer does not voluntarily identify himself or own up to his folly. I am sure you know this much. You asked "why no anonymous content edits?". I have done a lot of anonymous content edits, although it wont appear in the same IP address since I dont have static IP. As I said, I have been logging on regularly only from September this year although I registered a year ago. Do you want a list of the content edits I have done anonymously?. What I am trying to do here is a gentle reminder of the famous Thirukkural "thIyinAl sutta puN...", and I hope you dont have to defend all the bad behaviour of Venu62, who still offends me with intent by calling me a spammer. I know that you had asked Venu62 to stop the acrimony, but I feel you are falling in line with him in assuming bad intent and using his insults (even without intent to offend). That said, I have no need prove my credentials, but I have the right to not be called a spammer when I am not one. Venu62 is not all hunky dory and I have found what his character is, but I dont have to prove it to anyone else, nor is my goal to harp on the past. I am merely requesting you to not label anyone with the words of your friends. Please form your own judgement.-- ॐ
Kris (
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contribs)
01:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, you said "Kris, it takes a giant leap of faith (and probability too) to have all anonymous link addition edits to happen under a particular IP and content edits to happen under a different IP so neatly." I never said all my content edits come under a single IP address. Even all my link additions dont fall under a single IP, although I added the links in one day. I know fairly the articles which I have been editing and I can search the histories of those to get my edits. IPs of my edits usually start like 59.xx.xx. It doesnt mean all of them are the same IP address though. Please dont put words into my mouth that suit your preconceived notions (if any) and say that it requires giant leap of faith. I expected better understanding and expectation of good faith from you than from Venu62, but it looks that you are more interested in defending your friend than looking at the truth (sorry but no offense to you).-- ॐ
Kris (
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contribs)
11:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I did note that your post was meant to be a voice of reason against Venu62's acidic comments, but you repeated Venu62's words and said that I was not aware of "rules regarding spamming". When I said that I apologised for not knowing wikipedia's rules (not for spamming which was never what I did, nor my intent), you said I did spam, you had come to Venu62's conclusion. I replied to you that I know what spamming is and I did not behave like a spammer. I told you what I did and what I didn't in my defense. I told you I can locate my anon edits, but since you had probably prejudged me as a spammer, you seemed to misinterpret my saying by assuming that I had made all content edits under a single IP and link edits under another IP. I had made a RfC for my link edits for which I got no response. Does a spammer do that? Since you have probably made up your mind, I saw no more reason to prove either mine or the actions of Venu62.
I said whatever Venu62's neutrality is, he is not above error. You are particularly unwilling to doubt Venu62's neutrality, but let me tell you neutrality is not set in stone. Its a relative position and while Venu62 may be more neutral than some, he may not be more neutral than all. Particularly since you know less about me than perhaps about Venu62, you should not be comparing me with him and say that he is neutral before me. Perception of neutrality itself is subjective. Oh well, I have no wish to brainwash you. You can believe what you want but pls be aware that repeating others acidic remarks and terms can be offensive and more when you stand by such unintended offense. Cheers-- ॐ Kris ( talk | contribs) 11:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Its not my agenda either to villify Venu62 beyond what he himself is doing. NPOV itself is a perception, and what appears as NPOV to one need not be so to another. To you, he may be impartial, but to me he is definitely a hardcore linguistic chauvinist, though he may not appear so to you. When you yourself (whom I consider greatly more neutral than him) have declared your POV, how do you expect people to buy your assertion that he is neutral? Please understand that I participate on many websites about tamil and I run a very successful forum on Tamil elsewhere. I can definitely make out who is a linguistic chauvinist and who is not, and I deal with students and scholars on languages, on a daily basis. This does not mean you have to buy what I say, nor am I going to announce my feelings to the world, but your certificate is not going to do him any good as far as the CM article is concerned. He has declared his ignorance on CM related topics in Aadal's talk page, and is simply hanging around to harrass me (as I have shown with diffs) since I'm in his bad books.-- ॐ
Kris (
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contribs)
16:57, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello Sundar! I hope you had a good vacation and a wonderful deepavali. When you have some free time, could you take a look at these proposals for writing Tamil words in the Latin script and let me know what you think. You can comment directly against a proposal, or reply here, or on the talk page for the proposals as you prefer. I'd particularly appreciate your thoughts on the problem of representing ற். -- Arvind 21:57, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, this is a difficult comment to write. If you would be so kind, please read User:BostonMA#Dbachmann's use of ethnic, national and religious attributes of editors when making negative criticisms. You may note that it has changed since we last discussed. I'm sorry to say that I think matters have come to the point where an RfC seems to be the only way forward in resolving this issue. Since you and I had talked, there had been another remark made, and I wrote to dab suggesting that we ask your assistance to mediate, but he did not reply to my suggestion. Now there has been another remark. Although I think dab is very useful as a contributor, I think his use of words has a very negative effect on the community, and the situation, has gotten to the point where I don't think it can be tolerated any more. Although I am concerned that dab may just walk out in frustration if there is an RfC, I can't see this continuing. It sets a very bad example and encourages hostility along racial, ethnic, religious lines. I am hoping that you might be able to open the lines of communication with dab, so that an RfC might be avoided. Whatever efforts you may take in this direction would be very much appreciated. With a heavy heart, sincerely, -- BostonMA talk 14:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your prompt response .I have also redirected Palanivel Rajan to P. T. R. Palanivel Rajan.I had updated from 27th oct correcting wrong facts like he was speaker from from 1991-1996 while he was the speaker from 1996-2001 with the relevant links and add some more relevant facts with external links Thank you Harlowraman
Hi! How are you? I sent u a mail. Please check. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 16:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Ha Ha. I was going to write you a message on just that. Raul selected a different summary and pic from the one I had submitted. Too bad for your pic. ;-)-- thunderboltz (Deepu) 14:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Ref: Your query on West Bengal talk page if we need to mention the number of assembly constituencies and again the number of MLAs.
reply Well, number of Assembly Constituencies is 294 while that of MLAs is 295 (including one nominated from Anglo-Indian community). That's why it was thought that both should be mentioned. What do you think?-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 15:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Please see this Mahawiki 18:52, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, it is quite possible that you are discussing the matter I brought up via email, so please forgive me if this reminder is unnecessary. However, I did not want this issue to fall through the cracks. Please let me know in a general way how things are progressing. Thanks -- BostonMA talk 00:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, thanx for this message of a long time ago. I have been on a prolonged break and hopefully will come back to editing by and by. Regards, ImpuMozhi 02:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh sundar! why did u delete it? delete all marathi mentions there delete all marathi transliterations plz.this will make kannada editors happy.bye Mahawiki 06:59, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I was expecting that. :) I have restored old noticeboard title. Thanks, Ganeshk ( talk) 00:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, Can u start SundarBot in TW. -- Sivakumar \ Talk 09:54, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I have been trying to get some information on the ' Tamil Bell' found in New Zealand. This is all I could gather so far. There is no evidence that this bell was indeed from the Chola period. - Parthi talk/ contribs 05:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar. I have previously tried to follow the instructions for Linux (I run Suse 10.1) but the uyirmey letters are persistently inverted. I should try the Tamillinux mailing list to see if they can help. -- Arvind 09:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your efforts. I am saddened by the result. From your comment I assume that dab is either unwilling to make a committment to stop making references to the racial, ethnic, national or religious attributes of editors when he is making negative comments about those editors or their edits, or he is unwilling to discuss the matter with you.
I am now weighing whether to file an RfC. dab is a valuable resource to Wikipedia, is highly educated and a prolific contributor. My hope with regard to an RfC is that it would provide dab with community feedback regarding the use of racial, ethnic, national and religious attributes of editors when making negative comments. My hope is that the community would convey to dab that such comments are unnecessary, and inappropriate in the Wikipedia community. It is my hope that dab will receive such feedback from editors whom he respects. I known that there is some anger toward dab. My hope is that an RfC would not used as a vehicle for revenge or harrassment. Rather, I hope that community would clearly and sternly refocus editors who may be tempted to use the RfC for purposes other than to give dab the feedback described above. I am not yet committed to filing an RfC, and seek the input of others. I am especially eager to hear considerations that might dissuade me from an RfC. I do have a concern that dab may choose to leave Wikipedia. However, my current feeling is that the risk involved is outweighed by the need for DBachmann to receive clear feedback, especially from editors whom he respects.
I would very much appreciate your thoughts. As you suggested, I will send you an email address later today (US time) so that you may express your thoughts confidentially. Once again, I appreciate and thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, -- BostonMA talk 14:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure about the source, I got it by email and thought I could use it on a relevant article here. You can delete it if its against some copyright law. I got the date of the bell from http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm (click the "radical" button on the left)-- ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 17:07, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
OK. But how does a chinese ship carry a Tamil bell --- doesnt seem to be too much in line with history or logic. Radical means just radical finds, not altered history. Anyway I understood now that I cant put doubtful images on GDFL. Thanks for that bit of info. -- ॐ
Kris (
☎ talk |
contribs)
10:11, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey Sundar, thanks a lot for your support to my RFA... Had it not been for your initial encouragement, my DYKs would never have happened and if they had not happened, then in all probability this RFA would have sunk:) So thank you doubly! -- Lost (talk) 12:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar Thanks for correcting the mistakes in the current politics. I got that from the reference cited. I guess the information is wrong. I don't keep myself informed of the TN politics. I appreciate any corrects/inputs. I'm not sure whether the information on the current history is sufficience for completion of the article. I think we can move to FAC soon, don't you? Cheers Parthi talk/ contribs 08:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised you're surprised. IMO, modesty is not a virtue - I tell it like it is. W/o ur support, I wouldn't have half the FAs I've written and would still be "temperamentally unsuitable." Rama's arrow 16:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Google hits must not be taken as a sole yardstick in Asian related AfD's. Newspapers of Vernacular Languages may have millions of readership. For example, in India every state has its own language. There are more than 20 widely speaking native languages in India. But the news reports from the newspapers of such languages are not available in google search.Take the case of Malayala Manorama Newspaper. Currently this Malayalam language newspaper has a readership of over 9 million, with a circulation base of over 1.4 million copies according to Audit Beureu of Circulations. Manorama is one of the India's largest selling and most widely read news paper. There are more than 50 such newspapers in India. News reports from such dailies are not available in google eventhough it have millions of readership. But news reports from English dailies with 1000 or 2000 copies are available in google search. It is really misleading...Isn't it...? In this context of notability tests based on google hits may be a worthless, foolish effort. In such circumstances we must consider the words of native wikipedians with more importance. May I know ur valuable opinion ……? Nileena joseph ( Talk| Contribs) 05:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
No problem. Yeah, the talk page was left redirected because I forgot to finish archiving. Thanks for pointing this out. Saravask 06:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I dont have the book with me, now to provide you the exact line.- Bharatveer 09:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, I have Sastri's A History of South India (1955) OUP (reprinted 2000). The page number for BV's citation in the book I have is in page 117. The context is the the so-called Aryan influeces in the ancient Tamil Nadu. It states:
In other words, this is simply a throwaway line by Sastri with no elaboration on the subject. I hope this helps. Parthi talk/ contribs 10:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, Can you please check this and confirm if my understanding of the image copyrights is correct? Thanks, Ganeshk ( talk) 23:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
My name is Krishna Chaitanya. It was me who wrote completely the article "An Explanation for thy argument" in the talk page of the artcile Sanskrit. I feel that the talk page should be informative rather than argumentative. I dont know who wrote "It is not the nationwide language dears" in Talk page. I felt appalling about it and wrote an explanation for it. Thanks for finding the real one who wrote it. - User:Bsskchaitanya 12.48 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Sundar, Here at Marathi Language Wikipedia want to use bots for spell check and correction of Devanagari Letters used in Marathi words; for example we want to replace 'ई.स.' from all article because gramaticaly it is wrong , we want to replace the same with correct version 'इ.स.' Another example is we want to replace wrong spell आणी with correct one आणि.
We will apreciate any help coming in, in this regard.Our relevant page for Bots in Marathi wikipedia is सांगकाम्या, Vilaage Pump discussion page is at विकिपीडिआ:चावडी/प्रगती and Wikipedia Embassy is at आंतरविकि दूतावास
Regards Mahitgar 08:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Dear Mr.Sundar, Many Many thanks for your valuable suggestion and prompt support. I will keep in touch with you and get back to you if I get any queries.
Reagrds Mahitgar 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I want to use screenshot of the arrest of Karunanidhi in the for Karunanidhi midnight arrest.It was taken from SUN TV Karunanidhi111.jpg.Sun TV is owned by the Maran family .Maran was also arrested.Can I use it ?thanks Harlowraman
Can you talk some sense into Venu62? He has started stalking me again. For more information, see my talk page and his. Thanks. -- ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 11:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Sundar, I wonder why name is appearing in the above discussion under the heading "Sastri's Book". But I wanted to clarify you that, the statement "KNM (talk • contribs) even stated that I "claim to be Tamil". " made by User:Bakasuprman is far from truth and I have never stated that. Thanks - KNM Talk 16:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Sundar. If possible, I'd appreciate it if you could comment at Talk:India#Retaining_edits_made_by_the_ip. The section concerns this edit. It is quite heated, and it was revealed in the discussion that you and Nichalp made the decisions regarding the "Culture" section (specifically, the example lists); Nichalp has already commented, but the dispute is still ongoing. I cannot comment further there because my knowledge of South Indian holidays is apparently twenty years out of date. Thanks. Saravask 21:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sundar, many thanks for all your help and support during the FA drive. Much appreciated. Cheers Parthi talk/ contribs 21:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like its in your alley of knowledge. Bakaman Bakatalk 17:22, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello! You look like someone who might be interested in joining the India WikiProject and so I thought I'd drop you a line and invite you! We'd love to have you help us :-) ॐ Kris ( ☎ talk | contribs) 14:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)