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Danidamiobi (
talk) 21:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Thankyou for you're work on Great Amwell and Little Amwell, as you can see I noted there should probably be a split but the only difference it that Amwell, Hertfordshire now goes to Amwell#England rather than Great Amwell due to the fact that there is also a hamlet in St Albans district. I have fixed most links to point to one of the specific places but there are 4 links that I can't determine, I have also nominated Category:People from Amwell, Hertfordshire for deletion. Also since you have been working on other Hertfordshire parishes do you have any knowledge about Brickendon Liberty? That title redirects to Brickendon but perhaps should have a separate article however the name may indicate its an alternative name for the village meaning no separate article may be needed. Consider for example Little Amwell was also a liberty. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:41, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting out those Amwell links - I managed to find some extra sources for the last four and have disambiguated them too. On Brickendon, I think that plain "Brickendon" is the common name of the village itself, and used to be the name of the parish / parish liberty too - looks like the "Liberty" was only added to the name of the parish in 1929. I'm undecided on how this parish's pages / redirects should be structured so as to be consistent. Stortford ( talk) 22:11, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Letchworth you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SounderBruce -- SounderBruce ( talk) 07:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi - Please can you take a look at Berkhamsted Civic Centre? I have included a couple of sources which say the site was previously occupied by William Nash & Son whereas the Berkhamsted article suggests the site was occupied by a former Wesleyan chapel. I am not sure which is right: it might be that both are correct but at different periods of site ownership. Thanks. Dormskirk ( talk) 11:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Do you intend to do anything with Draft:Great Berkhampstead Rural and Draft:Hoddesdon Rural? like the some of the other former parishes. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 16:43, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Stortford
Thank you for creating 2002 Reading Borough Council election.
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Hello, Stortford
Thank you for creating 2002 Slough Borough Council election.
User:MPGuy2824, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
update the results in the infobox too
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- MPGuy2824 ( talk) 07:58, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Similar to Talk:Slough#Recent split to Borough of Slough there are some districts at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about districts/to do which maybe should be split or merged.
The 1st 2 list districts that have significantly different boundaries to their settlements and should probably be split. The 3rd, Blackpool has similar boundaries to the settlement and should probably be merged (an article on the council already exists).
The "Local authorities" section lists districts that are combined with their settlement but no district council article exists. In the 1st 6 cases the district contains a single unparished area so probably no separate article is needed for the district per WP:UKDISTRICTS but an article on the district councils such as Crawley Borough Council (like Eastbourne Borough Council) probably should exist. The 7th case is a bit less straight forward as although the boundaries of the district are similar to the settlement the district contains 2 parishes that were moved to the district in 1974. In this case we could create an article on the district at City of Worcester, England (or perhaps like City of Lancaster just City of Worcester if its the only 3rd order unit with this name) or like Gloucester/ Gloucester City Council and Cheltenham/ Cheltenham Borough Council create Worcester City Council and have no separate article for the district (like what you've suggested for Slough. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
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MaxnaCarta ( talk) 13:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Crawley Borough Council, Gosport Borough Council, Hastings Borough Council, City of Lincoln Council, Tamworth Borough Council and Woking Borough Council articles now exist. You might want to check everything is OK with them, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 16:48, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your edits to the Governance section of the
Woking article. There are a couple of things which you've introduced into the text which are not supported by the current references. I have added {{citation needed}}
templates to highlight them. The sentences are:
Would you be able to provide sources for these please? Also I would like to move the first point about the "urban parishes" to a footnote. Would you be happy for me to do this?
Best wishes,
Mertbiol (
talk) 12:19, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
The article Letchworth you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Letchworth for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SounderBruce -- SounderBruce ( talk) 09:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Thankyou for creating this, now all current districts in England named after other types of places either have a separate article or a district council article. I've started Wikipedia:Notability (councils) of which for England this means generally county councils have separate articles from their counties (all at Category:County councils of England exist), district councils generally don't have separate articles from the district unless like Worcester there is no separate article for the district from the settlement of the same name (most at Category:Non-metropolitan district councils of England aren't separate) and parish councils of parishes named after settlements (or other features) may have articles but generally this is only large and important ones and like districts those like Elstree and Borehamwood Town Council that aren't named after a settlement etc generally shouldn't exits (at Category:Parish councils of England only 30 exist/are separate). Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:44, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
I've produced a list of missing former civil parishes at User:Crouch, Swale/Hertfordshire and those that exist at User:Crouch, Swale/Hertfordshire/Exists (see all). Its divided into:
What could be added in addition to the missing ones being created is the population at most recent census before abolition and when the parish was abolished. Most articles already have the latter and the former is less important for those like Baldock that still exist as unparished areas or otherwise have current settlement data. For larger places like Bushey it may make more sense to put the population data in the governance section, for smaller places like Wakeley, Hertfordshire it probably makes sense to put it in the lead. For some like Horstead [2] (in Norfolk but just an example) have no information in VOB so I'd consider not bothering to create them. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Its interesting to note that most urban districts generally only contained 1 settlement and little rural land exceptions I can think of are Basildon, Tiverton, Stratford upon Avon, Redditch, Fareham, Rothwell, Ryton, Bedworth, Witham, Solihull, Neston, Penzance, Whitehaven, Lymington, Brighton, Rayleigh, Gosport, Hinckley, Newmarket, Newport (Wight), Ryde and Cowes. My understanding now is that its for the reason at Ware, Hertfordshire#Governance that parishes couldn't be in both urban and rural district so many were split for the reason at Draft:Hoddesdon Rural#History that UDs generally didn't preferably include rural areas. What part of the Local Government Act 1894 specified parishes couldn't be in both urban and rural districts? The legislation is so long I couldn't fine it. Of these a few interesting ones are Rothwel which still exists as an unparished area and contains a large number of other settlements, Fareham which still exists today as a district, Bedworth which we recently discussed and Tiverton which is a parish not unparished area today. My understanding is the reason many of these do contain other areas is mergers with other districts and other boundary changes shortly before 1974, this seems to be the last with the 1st 3 ones but not Tiverton though the last boundary changes for both Fareham and Rothwell seem to have been several decades before 1974. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
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Hello, Stortford. Thank you for your work on County Buildings, Kirkcudbright. User:Girth Summit, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
Wow - you made that in a single edit?
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Girth Summit (blether) 09:50, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
I've done the former parishes in Leicestershire [3] and also created User:Crouch, Swale/Parish types and Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about parishes. As a point about category 1 and 2 parishes that for category 1 parishes like Kirkby Mallory it makes sense to right "X is a village and former civil parish" and "In 1931 the parish had a population of". For some category 2 parishes like Bushby that were formerly rural parishes this also makes sense but for the likes of New Parks and Barnwood that were urban parishes and have likely changed significantly as well as are/were wards with 21st century population data putting the parish data in the lead isn't useful/gives undue weight to these places today. Also with category 4 parishes I have noted they may not be notable but there isn't yet a consensus on that. With 2 of the urban parishes of Leicester Leicester Abbey and Leicester Blackfriars I have added information on the feature's article about the parish. Perhaps it would be better to add all information about non-notable pre-1974 urban parishes to the former district's article/section rather than the places they are named after. Ignoring urban parishes that are category 1 and 2 parishes and those that were formerly rural parishes I suspect some like Bullers Green and Knight Thorpe may be notable though in these 2 cases they were formerly townships which may well qualify as having their own governance for the purpose of notability. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:06, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Leaving aside the issue of if districts should be split from the settlements of the same name do you agree it generally makes sense that if a district had no boundary changes in 1974 it makes sense to cover the "former" and current district in 1 article rather than covering the older district in the settlement article like Municipal Borough of Wokingham v Borough of Wokingham. For example Fareham Urban District had no changes in 1974 so goes to Borough of Fareham and Blaby Rural District also had no changes in 1974 so goes to Blaby District. This is also consistent with Woodspring> North Somerset which changed name and gained unitary status but kept the same boundaries. I'd say that this might not apply to districts that the area became a parish/unparished area like Kempston Urban District or Borough of Scarborough as these units are significantly different.
With regards to minor changes (again leaving aside the issue of if we should split the district from the settlement at all) what do you make of merging the following?
My instinct would be that both Basildon and Thurrock should be merged as the only change was moving part of Thurrock into Basildon that was in the designated new town. This seems like a very minor change similar to a normal parish boundary change or other minor district boundary changes. On the other hand with Slough although the parts moved from Elon RD were small parts of parishes rather than a single parish and those areas are effectively part of the town those areas did become separate parishes which arguably makes the change significant. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:58, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your edit to 2022 Aberdeen City Council election and wondered if you could help me understand when the suspension of the Labour councillors in Aberdeen ended. I spent a bit of time researching it to see what happened in the run up to the 2022 election but all the evidence I could find pointed to their suspension still being in place. They were on the ballot paper as Aberdeen Labour [4] and not Scottish Labour as with other councils [5] [6] [7] and the group were referred to as Aberdeen Labour on the council's website until at least June 2022 [8]. I couldn't find any reports of the suspension being lifted and the only change I could see was in December 2022 when the council's website had them listed under Scottish Labour [9]. At the time I was updating the article, I thought the party may have kept it quiet and that sometime between June and December 2022 the suspension was lifted. I don't know if I have missed something though so I would appreciate your help understanding this better. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 19:30, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm just wandering about the following things which aren't covered here from what I can see and perhaps we should.
I have created an article on the unparished area, a while ago you edited the Braintree, Essex article. I guess if the area gets parished and is called just "Braintree" then we can merge the article but until then we need an article. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
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InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk | contribs) 12:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)What do you make of having separate articles for unitary authorities that continue on with the same boundaries as the county council like North Yorkshire Council and North Yorkshire County Council? IMO its probably best to combine the articles if the boundaries of both are the same namely not Dorset Council (UK) and Dorset County Council ( Christchurch removal). There was discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about counties#Unitary authority areas, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 29#Unitary county councils: separate articles or not?, Talk:Somerset County Council#Merger proposal and Talk:North Yorkshire Council#Merger of North Yorkshire County Council and North Yorkshire Council. I think because the boundaries are the same and in the case of North Yorkshire (as opposed to Buckinghamshire) the order renames rather than abolishes the council its probably better to just have 1 article for both. I'd also support merging the Buckinghamshire articles but maybe not the Dorset articles. Although I feel strongly that things like former units should generally not be merged with the current ones I do think similar to Municipal Borough of Harrow/ London Borough of Harrow and Fareham Urban District and Borough of Fareham that we should treat continuations in 1 single article even if the council name dropped "County" unlike Northumberland Council and inherited the district responsibilities. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
While I agree with removing unparished area from the lead of most articles, for the few districts like Blackpool that are a single unparished area (and we have separate articles for) isn't it fine to mention it in the lead. Others seem to be Epsom and Ewell, Fareham, Havant (as "Havant and Waterloo") and perhaps Thurrock. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:27, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
This isn't an objection as such but I'm wandering if a merge is appropriate? As I noted at User:Crouch, Swale/Essex/Exists#2 "Great Clacton" was a parish until 1974 but had the same area as Clacton Urban District and subsequently the unparished area of Clacton. Although I noted when "Great Clacton" was abolished I didn't put the 1961 census data due to the fact the unparished area continued. If it was a category 4 parish this would surely seems sensible but "Great Clacton" is the name of a settlement that was once a district settlement and is still a settlement today [10]. I'm still unsure if a merge makes sense as it may be better to keep the "Great Clacton" article about the settlement with the mention of the parish being abolished etc. On the other hand I guess it depends how much coverage there is of the settlement as the parish/unparished area is the same as "Clacton". Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
As this area (apart from the South Turton Area Forum from 2000-2008) appears to exist only as an unparished area I'd say that it is appropriate to call it an "unparished area" in the lead. The article's main scope from its creation in 2007 has it seems been the unparished area. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
I don't think you know but unfortunately for the last 2 weeks we haven't been able to access and of the statistics like population etc ( example) but the rest of the website is working. I have reported it, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography#VOB population 500 error but although I'd still checking for former parishes I'm not working on articles until this problem is sorted. Just letting you know, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 17:27, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your thoughtful additions to the Blackpool Governance section. I wondered if we could reinstate the header as Governance and Politics? Largely because it covers political conferences. AntoniaStack ( talk) 18:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
A few days ago I expanded Borough of Havant#History to include information about the "previous" district but there is a bit of a problem. According to VOB it was formed in 1884 (per "Date created") but at the "Boundary changes" says it was created from several districts in 1932 while in the names section further up it was named "Havant" until 1932 and "Havant and Waterloo" after then. As we've said before that when a district "survived" the 1974 reforms (even though the UD and NMD are different legal entities they are a geographical continuation) we should discuss in more detail the "previous" district.
As a side note per you're comment at 20:03, 13 November 2022 about county councils reviewing boundaries and merging district and some councils being more zealous it looks like Hampshire may have been one of them as there were 5 district that survived the 1974 changes and all 5 of them had boundary changes in the 1930s or later. Clearing up this would also follow the scope problems as discussed from this, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 23:11, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I've created User:Crouch, Swale/Continuation which notes some changes are legal, geographic or name continuations and says we generally prefer 1 article. Correct me if I'm wrong but technically the change to Fareham Urban District to Fareham non-metropolitan district was a legal abolishment and reformation even though the boundaries and name are the same and Skegness urban parish and Skegness successor parish are also legally 2 different entities even though they have the same name and area but in this case while the successor parish has significantly less powers than the urban district unlike the urban parish it is a fully functioning municipality as opposed to only relying on the district council. The same would also be the case of "Halstead Urban">"Halstead". With parishes the only time we would normally make a distinction with a legal continuation is like Dobwalls and Trewidland when a significant boundary change happened. Do these rules seem sensible?
Along those lines am I right in thinking per you're comment above about St Michael Rural/ St Michael, Hertfordshire that the latter is a legal continuation of the former with small boundary changes and a change of name and that I should partly revert my changes saying the parish was abolished? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
VOB population figures are now working again but unfortunately when they started working again the boundary maps stopped working though that's not as much of a problem for the category 1 and 2 parishes as they have all been checked for covering the settlement of the same name. A few weeks ago the population figures temporarily started working again with boundary maps not working. It seems odd that when the population figures start working the maps stop working. Interestingly for some units 1971 figures now are shown example Panton though I'm not going to bother to update those that I have already added only 1961 data to. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:42, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
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Hi Stortford, just dropped by to let you know I've readded town to the Borough of Yarmouth article and to the Gorleston article for the town. I did research and more than five websites use town for Gorleston including a visit Norfolk site which obviously involves the whole county so the town or suburb.argument is slightly answered by these historical looks using town in Suffolk and town in Norfolk. Anyway just thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to debate it or not on their respective talkpages. Thanks DragonofBatley ( talk) 04:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
In terms of former administrative divisions do you agree with my decision on putting the fact it was in the administrative county of West Suffolk (and Cosford Rural District and Babergh hundred) in the "Governance" section rather than the lead? However I have put the historic county Lancashire for Woodhouses in the lead. The reason being that the historic county for Woodhouses is important to the history as changes to counties are usually controversial and other articles like Oldham mention this, on the other hand West Suffolk was never ceremonial and it wasn't until 2012 that I found out that there were East and West Suffolk counties which surprised me, though more recently I have found out that's because they were never ceremonial which is probably why they have far less significance to residents and thus may not be suitable for the lead. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
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Thanks for uploading File:North West Leicestershire District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Rushmoor Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:South Ribble Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Wealden District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:West Devon Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:East Lindsey District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Broadland District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Cannock Chase Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:East Staffordshire Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Great Yarmouth Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:King's Lynn and West Norfolk Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:South Norfolk Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:South Staffordshire Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Staffordshire Moorlands District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:West Lindsey District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Adur District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Epsom and Ewell Borough Council logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Horsham District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Mid Sussex District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Nuneaton and Bedworth Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Reigate and Banstead Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Rugby Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Warwick District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Worthing Borough Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Wychavon District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Thanks for uploading File:Arun District Council logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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What do you make of the like of Stanhope, County Durham which has an area of either 221 km2 or 255.8 the largest in England, larger than Stockton-on-Tees district (204.9), Darlington (197.5) and Hartlepool (93.72) which makes it the largest administrative unit in County Durham after the district. On here Category:Stanhope, County Durham has a large number of pages but Commons:Category:Stanhope, County Durham (civil parish) has even more. Notice that Stanhope has only 1 article here (though they are split on Commons) even though the smaller units of Hartlepool, Darlington and Stockton-on-Tees are split. I think this is correct, the convention in most parts of the world is normally to have separate articles for districts from the settlements of the same name but with municipalities they are normally combined. I'd argue that the unparished areas a somewhat the equivalent to a municipality even though they don't generally have administrative roles. If I'd been the one doing the local government in 1974 I'd probably have had every urban district that wasn't large enough to stay as a single district having a successor parish and have also abolished smaller parishes that became part of urban areas like Worcester's 2 parishes. In terms of the other large parishes there is also Kirkburton which contains quite a few district settlements (and its urban district had absorbed several other districts) and which I have created many Commons categories for, see Commons:Category:Kirkburton. Interestingly assuming Stanhope is 255.8 it would be England's 53rd largest district! out of 296 see List of English districts by population. What do you think about a list similar to List of the most populous civil parishes in England for the largest by area? I don't know of any sources that show parishes by area, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 28#Largest parishes by area. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
I've merged Buckinghamshire County Council into Buckinghamshire Council and have made a few improvements, you might want to have a look to see if anything else needs doing, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 23:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea as I don't generally think descriptive articles as opposed to articles on specific topics are generally a good idea but what are you're thoughts on "Local government in X" articles? Examples:
As mention I don't necessarily think this is a good idea and articles like Municipal Borough of Wisbech and Wisbech Town Council might work better than Local government in Wisbech but its a thought if its better to avoid splitting local governance from districts to unparished areas and parishes. In cases like Fareham/ Borough of Fareham where the pre 1974 district and unparished area are such articles would likely not be used as they would be redundant as likely would be with Eastbourne/ Eastbourne Borough Council, thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi @
Stortford:
I have been having an extended discussion with @
Crouch, Swale: at
his talk page about the wording to be used when talking about unparished areas. We are trying to agree a form of words that can be used across many settlement articles, which not only explains how/when a civil parish was abolished, but also does not imply that there is an officially defined unparished area of which it is now part. Our discussion has touched on the wording that you introduced to the
Skegby article with
this edit. I am a little concerned by the final part of the final paragraph of the
History section. For context I am quoting the final three sentences, but it is only the final phrase which I would like to query.
My concern is that the words "and so it became an
unparished area". I think it is fair to say that both @
Crouch, Swale: and I agree that this wording could be read as implying that there is a “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”. I think it’s fair to say that we both agree that there is no official “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”. The point of difference between @
Crouch, Swale: and me is that he believes that there is an unofficial “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”, to which it is appropriate to allude, whereas I do not. I would also note that The English Non-metropolitan Districts (Definition) Order 1972, used as reference, does not include the term “unparished area”.
My proposal would be to tweak the wording of the final part of the paragraph, to avoid any implication that there might be a “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area” (whether official or not). My proposal would be (again the final three sentences are given for context, but it is only the final part of the final sentence that has changed):
Could we ask for your feedback on this proposal please? Mertbiol ( talk) 11:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi @
Stortford: Thanks very much for your input over this weekend.
I have made a quick search for articles that use the same form of words as
Skegby used up until Saturday lunchtime - i.e. those that include the sentence "No
successor parish was created for the former urban district and so it became an
unparished area." or similar. I think there are between 50 and 80 such articles, depending on the exact search term used. Can I check that you'd be happy for me to edit these, so that they are in line with the current version of the
Skegby article please? (I'd hope to be able to do a handful of these every few days - I can't spend more time than that.)
Best wishes
Mertbiol (
talk) 16:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
I've now done all category 2 former parishes in non-metropolitan areas. Although many like Faxton are also names of former villages or the like and the standard UK place infobox seems correct it may be better for the likes of South Wilford that only ever existed as a parish to use the historic subdivision infobox however there seems to have been more of a movement to always use the UK place infobox for all types of parishes so I guess using it for defunct parishes seems fine. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi @ Stortford, I've been trying to understand how the list was selected for the non-metropolitan counties in your recent infobox change. But I can't get my head around it.
By my understanding, there are presently 21 non-metropolitan counties which still exist as originally intended. Plus Berkshire as I believe that was retained somehow, though to be honest, I can't understand the Berkshire (Structural Change) Order 1996 so I can't point to how.
But there are 30 in your list. Am I right in thinking that you've included what we might call 'technical' non-metropolitan counties? That is to say, unitary authorities. Is that why Cornwall and Buckinghamshire are in there, for example?
But then if that's so, shouldn't County Durham and the like be in there?
And should we really be calling these technical non-metropolitan counties as such? Otherwise we'd need to call Cheshire West and Cheshire East and so on as 'non-metropolitan counties'. When the agreed term is unitary authorities, regardless of the fact that they are technically non-metropolitan counties. Dgp4004 ( talk) 13:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
@Stortford, can I suggest that you start a discussion at WP:WikiProject UK geography about this topic. I am inclined to agree with A.D.Hope's reversion of your edits to Buckinghamshire and Cambridgeshire but it would be a good idea to get a consensus position on the main discussion forum rather than taking each on a case-by-case basis. You might explain what you mean by "county council functions": taking Buckinghamshire for example, Buckinghamshire Council has no jurisdiction over the 'territory' of Milton Keynes City Council.-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
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Thankyou for you're work on Great Amwell and Little Amwell, as you can see I noted there should probably be a split but the only difference it that Amwell, Hertfordshire now goes to Amwell#England rather than Great Amwell due to the fact that there is also a hamlet in St Albans district. I have fixed most links to point to one of the specific places but there are 4 links that I can't determine, I have also nominated Category:People from Amwell, Hertfordshire for deletion. Also since you have been working on other Hertfordshire parishes do you have any knowledge about Brickendon Liberty? That title redirects to Brickendon but perhaps should have a separate article however the name may indicate its an alternative name for the village meaning no separate article may be needed. Consider for example Little Amwell was also a liberty. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:41, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting out those Amwell links - I managed to find some extra sources for the last four and have disambiguated them too. On Brickendon, I think that plain "Brickendon" is the common name of the village itself, and used to be the name of the parish / parish liberty too - looks like the "Liberty" was only added to the name of the parish in 1929. I'm undecided on how this parish's pages / redirects should be structured so as to be consistent. Stortford ( talk) 22:11, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Letchworth you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SounderBruce -- SounderBruce ( talk) 07:40, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Hi - Please can you take a look at Berkhamsted Civic Centre? I have included a couple of sources which say the site was previously occupied by William Nash & Son whereas the Berkhamsted article suggests the site was occupied by a former Wesleyan chapel. I am not sure which is right: it might be that both are correct but at different periods of site ownership. Thanks. Dormskirk ( talk) 11:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
Do you intend to do anything with Draft:Great Berkhampstead Rural and Draft:Hoddesdon Rural? like the some of the other former parishes. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 16:43, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, Stortford
Thank you for creating 2002 Reading Borough Council election.
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Hello, Stortford
Thank you for creating 2002 Slough Borough Council election.
User:MPGuy2824, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
update the results in the infobox too
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- MPGuy2824 ( talk) 07:58, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Similar to Talk:Slough#Recent split to Borough of Slough there are some districts at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about districts/to do which maybe should be split or merged.
The 1st 2 list districts that have significantly different boundaries to their settlements and should probably be split. The 3rd, Blackpool has similar boundaries to the settlement and should probably be merged (an article on the council already exists).
The "Local authorities" section lists districts that are combined with their settlement but no district council article exists. In the 1st 6 cases the district contains a single unparished area so probably no separate article is needed for the district per WP:UKDISTRICTS but an article on the district councils such as Crawley Borough Council (like Eastbourne Borough Council) probably should exist. The 7th case is a bit less straight forward as although the boundaries of the district are similar to the settlement the district contains 2 parishes that were moved to the district in 1974. In this case we could create an article on the district at City of Worcester, England (or perhaps like City of Lancaster just City of Worcester if its the only 3rd order unit with this name) or like Gloucester/ Gloucester City Council and Cheltenham/ Cheltenham Borough Council create Worcester City Council and have no separate article for the district (like what you've suggested for Slough. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:36, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
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MaxnaCarta ( talk) 13:14, 6 September 2022 (UTC)Crawley Borough Council, Gosport Borough Council, Hastings Borough Council, City of Lincoln Council, Tamworth Borough Council and Woking Borough Council articles now exist. You might want to check everything is OK with them, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 16:48, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for your edits to the Governance section of the
Woking article. There are a couple of things which you've introduced into the text which are not supported by the current references. I have added {{citation needed}}
templates to highlight them. The sentences are:
Would you be able to provide sources for these please? Also I would like to move the first point about the "urban parishes" to a footnote. Would you be happy for me to do this?
Best wishes,
Mertbiol (
talk) 12:19, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
The article Letchworth you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Letchworth for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SounderBruce -- SounderBruce ( talk) 09:21, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
Thankyou for creating this, now all current districts in England named after other types of places either have a separate article or a district council article. I've started Wikipedia:Notability (councils) of which for England this means generally county councils have separate articles from their counties (all at Category:County councils of England exist), district councils generally don't have separate articles from the district unless like Worcester there is no separate article for the district from the settlement of the same name (most at Category:Non-metropolitan district councils of England aren't separate) and parish councils of parishes named after settlements (or other features) may have articles but generally this is only large and important ones and like districts those like Elstree and Borehamwood Town Council that aren't named after a settlement etc generally shouldn't exits (at Category:Parish councils of England only 30 exist/are separate). Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:44, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
I've produced a list of missing former civil parishes at User:Crouch, Swale/Hertfordshire and those that exist at User:Crouch, Swale/Hertfordshire/Exists (see all). Its divided into:
What could be added in addition to the missing ones being created is the population at most recent census before abolition and when the parish was abolished. Most articles already have the latter and the former is less important for those like Baldock that still exist as unparished areas or otherwise have current settlement data. For larger places like Bushey it may make more sense to put the population data in the governance section, for smaller places like Wakeley, Hertfordshire it probably makes sense to put it in the lead. For some like Horstead [2] (in Norfolk but just an example) have no information in VOB so I'd consider not bothering to create them. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
Its interesting to note that most urban districts generally only contained 1 settlement and little rural land exceptions I can think of are Basildon, Tiverton, Stratford upon Avon, Redditch, Fareham, Rothwell, Ryton, Bedworth, Witham, Solihull, Neston, Penzance, Whitehaven, Lymington, Brighton, Rayleigh, Gosport, Hinckley, Newmarket, Newport (Wight), Ryde and Cowes. My understanding now is that its for the reason at Ware, Hertfordshire#Governance that parishes couldn't be in both urban and rural district so many were split for the reason at Draft:Hoddesdon Rural#History that UDs generally didn't preferably include rural areas. What part of the Local Government Act 1894 specified parishes couldn't be in both urban and rural districts? The legislation is so long I couldn't fine it. Of these a few interesting ones are Rothwel which still exists as an unparished area and contains a large number of other settlements, Fareham which still exists today as a district, Bedworth which we recently discussed and Tiverton which is a parish not unparished area today. My understanding is the reason many of these do contain other areas is mergers with other districts and other boundary changes shortly before 1974, this seems to be the last with the 1st 3 ones but not Tiverton though the last boundary changes for both Fareham and Rothwell seem to have been several decades before 1974. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
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Hello, Stortford. Thank you for your work on County Buildings, Kirkcudbright. User:Girth Summit, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
Wow - you made that in a single edit?
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Girth Summit (blether) 09:50, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
I've done the former parishes in Leicestershire [3] and also created User:Crouch, Swale/Parish types and Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about parishes. As a point about category 1 and 2 parishes that for category 1 parishes like Kirkby Mallory it makes sense to right "X is a village and former civil parish" and "In 1931 the parish had a population of". For some category 2 parishes like Bushby that were formerly rural parishes this also makes sense but for the likes of New Parks and Barnwood that were urban parishes and have likely changed significantly as well as are/were wards with 21st century population data putting the parish data in the lead isn't useful/gives undue weight to these places today. Also with category 4 parishes I have noted they may not be notable but there isn't yet a consensus on that. With 2 of the urban parishes of Leicester Leicester Abbey and Leicester Blackfriars I have added information on the feature's article about the parish. Perhaps it would be better to add all information about non-notable pre-1974 urban parishes to the former district's article/section rather than the places they are named after. Ignoring urban parishes that are category 1 and 2 parishes and those that were formerly rural parishes I suspect some like Bullers Green and Knight Thorpe may be notable though in these 2 cases they were formerly townships which may well qualify as having their own governance for the purpose of notability. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:06, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Leaving aside the issue of if districts should be split from the settlements of the same name do you agree it generally makes sense that if a district had no boundary changes in 1974 it makes sense to cover the "former" and current district in 1 article rather than covering the older district in the settlement article like Municipal Borough of Wokingham v Borough of Wokingham. For example Fareham Urban District had no changes in 1974 so goes to Borough of Fareham and Blaby Rural District also had no changes in 1974 so goes to Blaby District. This is also consistent with Woodspring> North Somerset which changed name and gained unitary status but kept the same boundaries. I'd say that this might not apply to districts that the area became a parish/unparished area like Kempston Urban District or Borough of Scarborough as these units are significantly different.
With regards to minor changes (again leaving aside the issue of if we should split the district from the settlement at all) what do you make of merging the following?
My instinct would be that both Basildon and Thurrock should be merged as the only change was moving part of Thurrock into Basildon that was in the designated new town. This seems like a very minor change similar to a normal parish boundary change or other minor district boundary changes. On the other hand with Slough although the parts moved from Elon RD were small parts of parishes rather than a single parish and those areas are effectively part of the town those areas did become separate parishes which arguably makes the change significant. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:58, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
Hey, I saw your edit to 2022 Aberdeen City Council election and wondered if you could help me understand when the suspension of the Labour councillors in Aberdeen ended. I spent a bit of time researching it to see what happened in the run up to the 2022 election but all the evidence I could find pointed to their suspension still being in place. They were on the ballot paper as Aberdeen Labour [4] and not Scottish Labour as with other councils [5] [6] [7] and the group were referred to as Aberdeen Labour on the council's website until at least June 2022 [8]. I couldn't find any reports of the suspension being lifted and the only change I could see was in December 2022 when the council's website had them listed under Scottish Labour [9]. At the time I was updating the article, I thought the party may have kept it quiet and that sometime between June and December 2022 the suspension was lifted. I don't know if I have missed something though so I would appreciate your help understanding this better. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 19:30, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm just wandering about the following things which aren't covered here from what I can see and perhaps we should.
I have created an article on the unparished area, a while ago you edited the Braintree, Essex article. I guess if the area gets parished and is called just "Braintree" then we can merge the article but until then we need an article. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:26, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
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InterstellarGamer12321 ( talk | contribs) 12:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)What do you make of having separate articles for unitary authorities that continue on with the same boundaries as the county council like North Yorkshire Council and North Yorkshire County Council? IMO its probably best to combine the articles if the boundaries of both are the same namely not Dorset Council (UK) and Dorset County Council ( Christchurch removal). There was discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about counties#Unitary authority areas, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 29#Unitary county councils: separate articles or not?, Talk:Somerset County Council#Merger proposal and Talk:North Yorkshire Council#Merger of North Yorkshire County Council and North Yorkshire Council. I think because the boundaries are the same and in the case of North Yorkshire (as opposed to Buckinghamshire) the order renames rather than abolishes the council its probably better to just have 1 article for both. I'd also support merging the Buckinghamshire articles but maybe not the Dorset articles. Although I feel strongly that things like former units should generally not be merged with the current ones I do think similar to Municipal Borough of Harrow/ London Borough of Harrow and Fareham Urban District and Borough of Fareham that we should treat continuations in 1 single article even if the council name dropped "County" unlike Northumberland Council and inherited the district responsibilities. Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:38, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
While I agree with removing unparished area from the lead of most articles, for the few districts like Blackpool that are a single unparished area (and we have separate articles for) isn't it fine to mention it in the lead. Others seem to be Epsom and Ewell, Fareham, Havant (as "Havant and Waterloo") and perhaps Thurrock. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:27, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
This isn't an objection as such but I'm wandering if a merge is appropriate? As I noted at User:Crouch, Swale/Essex/Exists#2 "Great Clacton" was a parish until 1974 but had the same area as Clacton Urban District and subsequently the unparished area of Clacton. Although I noted when "Great Clacton" was abolished I didn't put the 1961 census data due to the fact the unparished area continued. If it was a category 4 parish this would surely seems sensible but "Great Clacton" is the name of a settlement that was once a district settlement and is still a settlement today [10]. I'm still unsure if a merge makes sense as it may be better to keep the "Great Clacton" article about the settlement with the mention of the parish being abolished etc. On the other hand I guess it depends how much coverage there is of the settlement as the parish/unparished area is the same as "Clacton". Thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
As this area (apart from the South Turton Area Forum from 2000-2008) appears to exist only as an unparished area I'd say that it is appropriate to call it an "unparished area" in the lead. The article's main scope from its creation in 2007 has it seems been the unparished area. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:35, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
I don't think you know but unfortunately for the last 2 weeks we haven't been able to access and of the statistics like population etc ( example) but the rest of the website is working. I have reported it, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography#VOB population 500 error but although I'd still checking for former parishes I'm not working on articles until this problem is sorted. Just letting you know, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 17:27, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your thoughtful additions to the Blackpool Governance section. I wondered if we could reinstate the header as Governance and Politics? Largely because it covers political conferences. AntoniaStack ( talk) 18:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
A few days ago I expanded Borough of Havant#History to include information about the "previous" district but there is a bit of a problem. According to VOB it was formed in 1884 (per "Date created") but at the "Boundary changes" says it was created from several districts in 1932 while in the names section further up it was named "Havant" until 1932 and "Havant and Waterloo" after then. As we've said before that when a district "survived" the 1974 reforms (even though the UD and NMD are different legal entities they are a geographical continuation) we should discuss in more detail the "previous" district.
As a side note per you're comment at 20:03, 13 November 2022 about county councils reviewing boundaries and merging district and some councils being more zealous it looks like Hampshire may have been one of them as there were 5 district that survived the 1974 changes and all 5 of them had boundary changes in the 1930s or later. Clearing up this would also follow the scope problems as discussed from this, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 23:11, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I've created User:Crouch, Swale/Continuation which notes some changes are legal, geographic or name continuations and says we generally prefer 1 article. Correct me if I'm wrong but technically the change to Fareham Urban District to Fareham non-metropolitan district was a legal abolishment and reformation even though the boundaries and name are the same and Skegness urban parish and Skegness successor parish are also legally 2 different entities even though they have the same name and area but in this case while the successor parish has significantly less powers than the urban district unlike the urban parish it is a fully functioning municipality as opposed to only relying on the district council. The same would also be the case of "Halstead Urban">"Halstead". With parishes the only time we would normally make a distinction with a legal continuation is like Dobwalls and Trewidland when a significant boundary change happened. Do these rules seem sensible?
Along those lines am I right in thinking per you're comment above about St Michael Rural/ St Michael, Hertfordshire that the latter is a legal continuation of the former with small boundary changes and a change of name and that I should partly revert my changes saying the parish was abolished? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:56, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
VOB population figures are now working again but unfortunately when they started working again the boundary maps stopped working though that's not as much of a problem for the category 1 and 2 parishes as they have all been checked for covering the settlement of the same name. A few weeks ago the population figures temporarily started working again with boundary maps not working. It seems odd that when the population figures start working the maps stop working. Interestingly for some units 1971 figures now are shown example Panton though I'm not going to bother to update those that I have already added only 1961 data to. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 19:42, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
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Hi Stortford, just dropped by to let you know I've readded town to the Borough of Yarmouth article and to the Gorleston article for the town. I did research and more than five websites use town for Gorleston including a visit Norfolk site which obviously involves the whole county so the town or suburb.argument is slightly answered by these historical looks using town in Suffolk and town in Norfolk. Anyway just thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to debate it or not on their respective talkpages. Thanks DragonofBatley ( talk) 04:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
In terms of former administrative divisions do you agree with my decision on putting the fact it was in the administrative county of West Suffolk (and Cosford Rural District and Babergh hundred) in the "Governance" section rather than the lead? However I have put the historic county Lancashire for Woodhouses in the lead. The reason being that the historic county for Woodhouses is important to the history as changes to counties are usually controversial and other articles like Oldham mention this, on the other hand West Suffolk was never ceremonial and it wasn't until 2012 that I found out that there were East and West Suffolk counties which surprised me, though more recently I have found out that's because they were never ceremonial which is probably why they have far less significance to residents and thus may not be suitable for the lead. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:40, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
Rhondda has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 22:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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What do you make of the like of Stanhope, County Durham which has an area of either 221 km2 or 255.8 the largest in England, larger than Stockton-on-Tees district (204.9), Darlington (197.5) and Hartlepool (93.72) which makes it the largest administrative unit in County Durham after the district. On here Category:Stanhope, County Durham has a large number of pages but Commons:Category:Stanhope, County Durham (civil parish) has even more. Notice that Stanhope has only 1 article here (though they are split on Commons) even though the smaller units of Hartlepool, Darlington and Stockton-on-Tees are split. I think this is correct, the convention in most parts of the world is normally to have separate articles for districts from the settlements of the same name but with municipalities they are normally combined. I'd argue that the unparished areas a somewhat the equivalent to a municipality even though they don't generally have administrative roles. If I'd been the one doing the local government in 1974 I'd probably have had every urban district that wasn't large enough to stay as a single district having a successor parish and have also abolished smaller parishes that became part of urban areas like Worcester's 2 parishes. In terms of the other large parishes there is also Kirkburton which contains quite a few district settlements (and its urban district had absorbed several other districts) and which I have created many Commons categories for, see Commons:Category:Kirkburton. Interestingly assuming Stanhope is 255.8 it would be England's 53rd largest district! out of 296 see List of English districts by population. What do you think about a list similar to List of the most populous civil parishes in England for the largest by area? I don't know of any sources that show parishes by area, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 28#Largest parishes by area. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:41, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
I've merged Buckinghamshire County Council into Buckinghamshire Council and have made a few improvements, you might want to have a look to see if anything else needs doing, thanks. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 23:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm not saying this is necessarily a good idea as I don't generally think descriptive articles as opposed to articles on specific topics are generally a good idea but what are you're thoughts on "Local government in X" articles? Examples:
As mention I don't necessarily think this is a good idea and articles like Municipal Borough of Wisbech and Wisbech Town Council might work better than Local government in Wisbech but its a thought if its better to avoid splitting local governance from districts to unparished areas and parishes. In cases like Fareham/ Borough of Fareham where the pre 1974 district and unparished area are such articles would likely not be used as they would be redundant as likely would be with Eastbourne/ Eastbourne Borough Council, thoughts? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:17, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi @
Stortford:
I have been having an extended discussion with @
Crouch, Swale: at
his talk page about the wording to be used when talking about unparished areas. We are trying to agree a form of words that can be used across many settlement articles, which not only explains how/when a civil parish was abolished, but also does not imply that there is an officially defined unparished area of which it is now part. Our discussion has touched on the wording that you introduced to the
Skegby article with
this edit. I am a little concerned by the final part of the final paragraph of the
History section. For context I am quoting the final three sentences, but it is only the final phrase which I would like to query.
My concern is that the words "and so it became an
unparished area". I think it is fair to say that both @
Crouch, Swale: and I agree that this wording could be read as implying that there is a “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”. I think it’s fair to say that we both agree that there is no official “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”. The point of difference between @
Crouch, Swale: and me is that he believes that there is an unofficial “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area”, to which it is appropriate to allude, whereas I do not. I would also note that The English Non-metropolitan Districts (Definition) Order 1972, used as reference, does not include the term “unparished area”.
My proposal would be to tweak the wording of the final part of the paragraph, to avoid any implication that there might be a “Sutton in Ashfield unparished area” (whether official or not). My proposal would be (again the final three sentences are given for context, but it is only the final part of the final sentence that has changed):
Could we ask for your feedback on this proposal please? Mertbiol ( talk) 11:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Hi @
Stortford: Thanks very much for your input over this weekend.
I have made a quick search for articles that use the same form of words as
Skegby used up until Saturday lunchtime - i.e. those that include the sentence "No
successor parish was created for the former urban district and so it became an
unparished area." or similar. I think there are between 50 and 80 such articles, depending on the exact search term used. Can I check that you'd be happy for me to edit these, so that they are in line with the current version of the
Skegby article please? (I'd hope to be able to do a handful of these every few days - I can't spend more time than that.)
Best wishes
Mertbiol (
talk) 16:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
I've now done all category 2 former parishes in non-metropolitan areas. Although many like Faxton are also names of former villages or the like and the standard UK place infobox seems correct it may be better for the likes of South Wilford that only ever existed as a parish to use the historic subdivision infobox however there seems to have been more of a movement to always use the UK place infobox for all types of parishes so I guess using it for defunct parishes seems fine. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 21:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi @ Stortford, I've been trying to understand how the list was selected for the non-metropolitan counties in your recent infobox change. But I can't get my head around it.
By my understanding, there are presently 21 non-metropolitan counties which still exist as originally intended. Plus Berkshire as I believe that was retained somehow, though to be honest, I can't understand the Berkshire (Structural Change) Order 1996 so I can't point to how.
But there are 30 in your list. Am I right in thinking that you've included what we might call 'technical' non-metropolitan counties? That is to say, unitary authorities. Is that why Cornwall and Buckinghamshire are in there, for example?
But then if that's so, shouldn't County Durham and the like be in there?
And should we really be calling these technical non-metropolitan counties as such? Otherwise we'd need to call Cheshire West and Cheshire East and so on as 'non-metropolitan counties'. When the agreed term is unitary authorities, regardless of the fact that they are technically non-metropolitan counties. Dgp4004 ( talk) 13:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
@Stortford, can I suggest that you start a discussion at WP:WikiProject UK geography about this topic. I am inclined to agree with A.D.Hope's reversion of your edits to Buckinghamshire and Cambridgeshire but it would be a good idea to get a consensus position on the main discussion forum rather than taking each on a case-by-case basis. You might explain what you mean by "county council functions": taking Buckinghamshire for example, Buckinghamshire Council has no jurisdiction over the 'territory' of Milton Keynes City Council.-- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:53, 12 June 2024 (UTC)