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It’s considered to be part of the larger Battle of Leyte Gulf, and the link to it redirects to the Battle of Leyte Gulf. There wasn’t a much of a need for correction. In my opinion. Lordkhain ( talk) 00:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if you aware of the template with the same name on the French Wikipedia (
fr:template:-s). for years, I (and others) have been finding/cleaning up places where people copy-and-paste text from the French Wikipedia to this Wikipedia. I usually do this by checking
Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:-s, but now that method doesn't work. for
fr:template:e, we have a tracking category,
Category:Articles using E without any arguments. we could do something similar in this case if we disallow the |1=
parameter and add tracking. or, we could rename your new template? do you have any suggestions on what to do? thank you.
Frietjes (
talk) 14:25, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
{{-s}}
template didn't have parameters, then you could track fr-to-en copy-paste uses easier (because
fr:template:-s has a required parameter)? If that's the case, then I see 3 possible paths forward:{{-s}}
. I really don't like this path at all.|1=
, and also create {{-es}}
to handle the cases where pluralization requires "-es" (i.e., words ending in "s", "x", or "z"). I was going to do this originally, but I figured it was kinda of a waste of a short-named template for the relatively infrequent need for a template for the "-es" suffix case. On the other hand, {{-es}}
would have some nice symmetry of use – similar to using {{
'}} and {{
's}}.{{
sclass-}}
to accept additional parameter(s) (or create a new similar template, perhaps something like {{sclassu-}}
?) to handle the space formatting in the italicized word itself (and also format the text unlinked, whereas {{
sclass-}}
always produces links now), rather than letting the suffix deal with the spacing. This would solve the very minor kerning issue when words like "-class" are adjacent to the italicized word. However, this is a lot more complicated of a template change, and probably also should be shopped around
WP:SHIP.{{-s|es}}
I've done so far.
sbb (
talk) 19:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)@ Frietjes: Final update: Blanked & request deletion of the templates, and undid all the page edits I made that used them. I was trying to solve a presentation problem that exists in Vector.css, not any of the newer skins (don't care about older skins). Full documentation at: User:Sbb/Oops#Template -s. Sorry for the hassle. =) sbb ( talk) 03:55, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
If you click the ISBN on a source, it takes you to this page, where Worldcat is one option to search for the book. We don't need the general link and the Worldcat specific link. Parsecboy ( talk) 19:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Seeing your pointers on the Peterhead Whaleboat on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships I am curious as to whether (a) you already knew about the Peterhead Whaleboat or (b) you knew of a good place to look up this information?
I ask because I am steadily gathering sources to work on traditional small craft, particularly open boats, and have not detected much of a level of knowledge in the editor community on the subject. (I am, for instance, waiting for the arrival in the mail of source that should allow me to sort out Ship's boat - I discovered the existence of this book from an e-mail conversation with the historian employed at USS Constitution.) ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 08:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. So the edit about the language template all across Kabuto. I was a little hasty, I'll admit it, and it only looks completely ugly on Safari. On Chrome on a desktop it looks fine, non-notable other than the italics. So yeah fair. Apologies for the revert.
It does however raise an interesting point I'd like to discuss. The automated template insertion you used has also put the template in section headers which, I believe, is a violation of MOS:HEADINGS. Specifically that headers can "Not contain template transclusions", it also says "These restrictions are necessary to avoid technical complications, and are not subject to override by local consensus." So the script you used and the replacement in the section headers appears to violate that and should be rectified. Unless I'm completely missing something. Am I misunderstanding the term transclusion here as its not technically pulling in other data in a way? Serious conversation, not trying to start anything. Canterbury Tail talk 01:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
heading}}
template that supposedly is to be used when heading wikitext can't be used. But if you check that template's "What links here", restrict it to Article namespace, and only show transclusions, it's used on only 5 pages, and even then, it looks like only one of those uses is even slightly novel (creating section headings within a multi-column list). So while I'd like to have the need for {{
transl}} around foreign text justify use of the {{
heading}} template, I don't think it's a good idea.What exact accessibility info does the template add that isn't already provided by the headers? And isn't outweighed by the shrinking of the text? See the comments by BilCat on my talk page.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 09:36, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
{{refbegin}}
: "These bibliographies or reference lists frequently appear in dedicated sections within an article, variously titled ==References==, ==Works cited==, ==Bibliography==, ==Further reading==, ==Published works==, and so on." Scraping headers for various spellings, provides absolutely no means for accessibly accessing information, as compared to identifying <div class="refbegin">
HTML tags.div.reflist {font-size:100% !important;}
to
Special:MyPage/common.css. Alternately, if you wish to change the default for all users, edit the {{
refbegin}} template to not adjust font size. There are several ways to effect 100% font size change for you, and still maintain semantic information in the page.
sbb (
talk) 04:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Given that Diannaa weighed in on this to your favor, an admin editor whose opinion I respect, go ahead and convert the citation to your preferred format. Nonetheless, you'll note that Diannaa also acknowledged its listing in Worldcat, which lists it the Chicago Manual of Style format. Technically I knew you were correct about Wikipedia guidelines; however, I am a professional (Ph.D) historian and know how we cite that work in the "real" world of academia. Victory is yours, nevertheless. We won't need to wait on other editors, even if they agree with my approach. -- Obenritter ( talk) 11:52, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello Sbb, I am a bit dismayed by the attention you have given to this wikipedia page but let me assure you that there is no inherent COI. I became concerned about the number of edits you made to this article and wondered if you did not have some interest in this particular issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MsMaam ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
Sbb, thanks for letting me know about my faux pas; I've added the references. The bribery involved in the construction of the Kongo caused the fall of a government as well as the arrest, trial, incarceration, and death of people--as such it's a significant fact that people ought to be aware of.
If you have modifications to suggest I'm glad to discuss this with you further. Patrick Marder. Guerre1859 ( talk) 03:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC) |
At this edit (line 1555-ish), you added this:
{{lang|gkm|dēmos}}
which renders as:
What did you really mean to write? Please preview your edits.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:41, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
gkm
, for what I assume was medieval greek. I'm not sure where I sourced the code, but clearly it's not a correct ISO code. I've edited the article to use grc
in that instance.{{lang|grc-x-medieval|dēmos}}
→ dēmosHi, I noticed you've been updating the markup for some tables, but wanted to ask that you check them when you're done. There was a minor issue at List of aircraft carriers of the United States Navy, since fixed, but there are still some errors at Arleigh Burke-class destroyer that need to be fixed. Thanks - wolf 02:29, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
fixed <ref> in ((efn)) error", but after that edit, the multiple, large, red "error" notices still remain at the bottom of the table and now in the ref section. These errors weren't there before your initial edit, so it seems something is being missed. I know you're trying to make improvements, and even appreciate that, given the effort you're putting in. But articles should be left better than as they were found. Should the table be reverted to its previous state, or are you still working out the error issue? Thanks again - wolf 16:05, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Thewolfchild: (Note: I outdented my reply because I couldn't get my tables below to display when they are indented in the reply.)
re: still working on {{efn}}
/<ref>
errors in
Arleigh Burke-class destroyer: No, I haven't asked at VP/T, but that's a good suggestion. That'll be my next step, in addition to more experimentation and trying to narrow down the issue in my sandbox.
re: table markup at e.g. USN subs: what I've been doing is all for data table accessibility. Basically, following Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial ( MOS:DTT), data tables need a caption, row & column headers, and scope="col" / scope="row" for those headers. scope=... is there to help screen reader software associate headers with their corresponding data in the table.
Also, once a table is sortable, some glaring accessibility issues pop up where they might not be obvious. For instance, before I edited Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, the table had interstitial "subheader rows" separating Flight I, Flight IA, Flight II, etc. ... Arleigh Burkes. But the table is sortable, so the moment the table is sorted, all of those "subheader rows" get lumped together at the top or bottom, and their meaning is lost, no longer associated with the ships that belong to Flight I, etc. MOS:COLHEAD advises against doing that, either by splitting it into separate tables for each Flight, or more preferably, adding a data column specifying the Flight, thus allowing Flight to be another sortable characteristic.
the "plainrowheaders" addition to the table's class isn't an accessibility thing — I just didn't want to make too much of a visual change in my cavalier editing =). It just makes the row headings not bold, and default left-aligned, instead of center-aligned and bold like table heading cells normally are:
— sbb ( talk) 16:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I certainly hope so! =) — sbb ( talk) 19:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC) — sbb ( talk) 19:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I'm also working on the Moss project and saw your comment on the page for letter S in the HB+ section about the side by side tables. This is one of the html issues that I haven't been able to figure out how to fix. If these can't be sent to a Wikiproject, can you point me to a page that you've already fixed, so I can see how it's done and also fix these pages? And thanks for all your help on the Moss project. Ira Leviton ( talk) 13:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
<div style=display:inline-table>...</div>
. So that's how to eliminate all those <ol>
and <li>
from those types of use cases that appear in the cricket club articles.G'day Sbb, thanks for updating the table formatting on this article and add the nbsp's. I just wanted to add that I am probably not the only one that finds it irritating when editors change the structure and headings of the end matter sections of an article to one they prefer. I have had dozens of FAs promoted with the end matter structure the article had, and it is my view that no editor should be going around changing article reference structures that are completely within the existing guidelines of MOS:REFERENCES to one they prefer, and I suggest that if this has been your practice, you stop doing it. Thanks, Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 21:44, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Thewolfchild asked me to contact you about this problem, and states that you are reformatting tables that need updated markup. For some reason, I'm having formatting problems with the List of United States Navy three-star admirals since 2010. The date of rank column (the dates for each admiral, not the column name itself) are supposed to be align="right" (like this) but for some reason they are all misaligned. Can't find the issue myself, may need help to fix the alignment. You can remove this message once you've read it. Thanks! SuperWIKI ( talk) 17:01, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
(or, equivalently, the {{
nbsp}} template) instead of spaces in the date. However, there's another way: use style="white-space: nowrap;"
(as suggested at
Help:Table § Nowrap) for just one of the date cells (it won't work in the header cell for the date column), the cell with the longest date in terms of character width. So, a date with 20-something or 30-something for the day of month, where the month isn't "Jul" (the "l" in July is a bit narrow), with wide digits for the year. It does seem sort of "hacky" to me, but it is recommended by Help:Table.style="white-space: nowrap;"
works too. There isn't really a need to {{nowrap}} all the dates. It doesn't hurt anything to have them all nowrapped, but if a page gets large (especially easy with table list pages), a lot of template replacements slow down page processing on edit saves. Just personally speaking, I dislike seeing extra "clutter" that isn't necessary, but that's just a personal thing of mine, and I don't go removing all that (unless I'm doing huge sweeping edits for other reasons). And if, in the future, people decide that they don't mind if the year wraps in order to allow the column to be narrower (perhaps because of tight spacing for mobile, etc.), it's only a single place to make a quick edit to allow that to happen, rather than having to remove {{nowrap}} from every. single. instance. =)"style:width=5m;"
on the column is unnecessary, but not wrong, IMO."plainrowheaders"
to the class list of the table (I forgot to do that in my first edit). "plainrowheaders"
makes row header cells (the ones starting with ! scope="row" |
not-bold, and left-aligned. Add that back in, and Bob's your uncle.Thanks for your edits to the USS Samuel B. Roberts page, it's much freer reading & the section moves makes sense. My own personal bugbear with a lot of USS ship pages is that they're a bit too Marvel Comic & not encyclopedic "Steaming aggressively through a gauntlet of incoming shells" being an example although I don't wish to undermine the actions of the crews. Steve Bowen ( talk) 06:28, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
They say lives too short to explain the rules of Cricket to an American - so I won't but Try THIS
Did the relevant CSS markup updates for this page but the date alignment still won't fix. Would you mind checking for any problems? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperWIKI ( talk • contribs) 10:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
style=
table cell parameter for what looks like the widest date (in terms of character widths). —
sbb (
talk) 15:17, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for improving the style of List of Gato-class submarines, which I created. I just want to let you know that List of Balao-class submarines and List of Tench-class submarines could probably use similar rework at your convenience. RobDuch ( talk· contribs) 21:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi Sbb,
As requested I am leaving a message with you here, though I am uncertain how to simply leave a message without starting a topic, so I apologize if I have responded incorrectly.
I am Sunartesis. You removed a link I had placed from the LSJ to a public domain version of the LSJ. You said this link was inappropriate for an encyclopedia, but did not explain why. Respectfully, I cannot imagine it being more appropriate. Are you familiar with the LSJ, and did you visit the link? I think this removal is in error, and would like to better understand your reasons.
Many thanks, and have a great day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 13:49, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm not affiliated, I'm aware of Wikipedia's policy regarding promotion, thanks for checking, and I'm not spamming, but just including relevant links to material I like, to a site I like. Please reinstate the link if you deem it appropriate, and if I may be so bold, maybe next time you could talk first with a person before reacting, much like I am sure you would prefer a police officer to talk to you first rather than give you a ticket before even walking up to the vehicle. Or that's how it seems to me. Just trying to help. Thanks again, Sunartesis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 21:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
That makes sense, it's a busy page. I think there are good reasons for that link (one really good one is because you can ctrl-f and search for terms of interest across multiple entries whereas other places like Tufts only show one entry at a time), but you don't seem interested in figuring out what's best here for Wiki surfers interested in the LSJ and are instead changing your reasons first from some unsupported appropriateness to promotion to clutter. Finally your third argument has some merit (still disagree, but hey, that's life). But constantly changing reasons makes it seem like something else is going on; I'd expect more from a Gnome. Anyways, moving on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
You're back to that? I'm zero-invested in that link, and the evidence is that I said I'm walking away from it, but you just persist. All I'm doing is defending in text so others can read it if need be that I am not as you accuse, so they can judge the incident for themselves. I'm sorry I replied here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
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Do you have a source for Naval Battle of Guadalcanal for the change of 50 to 56 5-inch guns? The Banner talk 21:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
@ The Banner: The source of the counts is the info boxes for all of the destroyers listed in that section, and added up their 5" (127 mm) gun counts. — sbb ( talk) 00:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source.It is not meant to deny/revert my edit (backing up the editor by the IP editor, who I generally agree is problematic, but in this instance was correct) that merely makes WP articles internally self-consistent on a simple mathematical basis (that is, the sum of # of 5" guns brought to bear in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal).
First, this causes churn for limited reader benefit and isn't necessarily a consensus choice on any particular page, but also math display=block has its own issues. It generates invalid and somewhat broken HTML unless you surround each instance by blank lines. It sometimes creates unnecessary phantom scroll bars in some browsers. It tries to fit next to floating images irrespective of formula width, sometimes causing the formula to not render entirely but need scrolling to view even on average-width windows. Etc.
If you are making a bunch of mathematical or other changes and you personally prefer math display=block, it's usually okay to make that change as long as you are willing to check to make sure that the results are good. But please don't just make mass changes across a large number of math pages that you aren't otherwise engaged with. It forces other people to come check and clean up after unless carefully done, and there's no consensus around forcing this change site wide. – jacobolus (t) 02:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
<dl></dl>
) with a single <dd>
without a preceding <dt>
. That is invalid HTML5. That is my main reason for making those changes. Sitewise, officially:
"Do not abuse block quotation markup to indent non-quotations. ... Avoid : (description list markup) for simple visual indentation in articles (common as it may be on talk pages). It causes accessibility problems and outputs invalid HTML."( MOS:INDENT)
"To display a mathematical formula or expression on its own line, it is recommended that <math display="block">... be used instead of :<math>...."( MOS:INDENTGAP)
<math display="block">
. I have noticed that blank lines in wikitext surrounding block math generates empty paragraph tags, but that can be solved by eliminating the blank wikitext lines. IMO that makes reading the wikitext slightly more difficult, but I'm not opposed to doing that to eliminate blank lines.<math>
(to prevent line breaks between the math and trailing punctuation); cleaning up or checking references match the style of refs used in the majority of the article; fixing ref errors; etc.<math display="block">
changes completely atomic in one commit (that is, merely a careful regex replacement, no other changes), followed by other gnomish edits. I'm absolutely more than happy to do that if it will help other editors be confident in my edits.The colon indentation is in theory an abuse of definition lists,C'mon, it's not theory. It's absolutely an abuse of
<dd>
.but it's also the main way Wikipedia math articles have been indenting block math since the beginning of Wikipediayep, and it's been wrong (but more or less accepted), and in the last few years, especially with WP generating HTML5, it's now invalid HTML, and won't be fixed by the parser, ever.
and there are thousands of such articles, and it has been working pretty well all these years.The journey of a thousand miles starts with small steps by committed editors.
Again, if you are writing a new mathematical article, substantially rewriting an article, or making other large-scale changes, feel free to switch all of the indentation in an article. But please stop running around making script assisted edits to large numbers of separate articles.To be clear, I am not making script-assisted edits. I'm using a regex find & manual replace in an external editor, to make sure I don't blanketly change a math block that has trailing text or manual equation number, etc.
display="block"
was added around 2104? 2015? I have faith they'll come around. But they specifically can't/won't change the parser to not produce lone <dd>
tags. As such, colon-indent is simply bad input.I consider some tuned regular expression find/replace to be a kind of a "script".You can't define terms to suit your whims when doing so blatantly misrepresents the person you are arguing against. — sbb ( talk) 16:44, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
I feel like you are intentionally not listening to what I am saying as part of some weird rhetorical strategy to misinterpret me so you can redirect the conversation. (Why you are doing this I can't really figure out.)Right. Back. At. You. You haven't listened to me, at all.
The point is that you are making many changes to a large number of articles in short succession without individual intention directing each edit.And there's where you're wrong. I am not doing a global search/replace. I'm letting the search find "
^: *<math
", and individually, visually evaluating each instance that it can safely be replaced with <math display="block">
(such as not having trailing text, equations, refs, etc.).I created a topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics § Should all math articles be immediately switched from : indentation to <math display=block>? where more editors can weigh in with their feedback. – jacobolus (t) 18:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
It's because you didn't wrap the math tag in your quote in nowiki tags, probably. -- JBL ( talk) 00:21, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
trying not to let myself fly off the handle: can I encourage you to disengage somewhat? You & jacobolus are clearly aggravating each other on a personal level a fair amount, so one of you needs to be the adult and step back from the personal back-and-forth. The conversation at WT:WPM is drawing in a sufficiently wide range of voices that I doubt it's necessary for you to be the main defender of your position. (As I said, I don't know enough about HTML to have an informed opinion on the technical question of how the world works -- but your argument seems a better account of how the world should work to me.) -- JBL ( talk) 00:37, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Gaussian units, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Coulombs.
( Opt-out instructions.) -- DPL bot ( talk) 06:03, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
[[coulombs]]
-> [[coulomb]]s
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sbb (
talk) 15:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Hi - I've just noticed your recent edits to {{ f/}} - I'm not quite sure what's happened here but something quite weird is going on. In Firefox (both logged in and logged out) it shows up with some kind of offset, so that it renders
f/ the 2 lens
rather than
the f/2 lens
However in Chrome it renders f/2 as normal, & the old version of the template rendered OK in Firefox. I don't suppose you have any idea what might be going on here & if there's an easy fix? Andrew Gray ( talk) 22:38, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
{{
f//testcases}}
and see if the examples that use {{
f//sandbox}}
(which correspondingly uses {{
f//sandbox/styles.css}}, which currently doesn't have a −0.8 rem "squeeze" for the first character that {{f/}}
does) show the same problem you're seeing? —
sbb (
talk) 19:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)white-space: nowrap;
to the <span>
that wraps the entire "f/number" string. It looks like it fixed the problem in Firefox. Can you test on your end? Thanks. —
sbb (
talk) 00:30, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Let's move this discussion to the template's talk page, Template talk:f/ § Firefox bug
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![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
It’s considered to be part of the larger Battle of Leyte Gulf, and the link to it redirects to the Battle of Leyte Gulf. There wasn’t a much of a need for correction. In my opinion. Lordkhain ( talk) 00:58, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if you aware of the template with the same name on the French Wikipedia (
fr:template:-s). for years, I (and others) have been finding/cleaning up places where people copy-and-paste text from the French Wikipedia to this Wikipedia. I usually do this by checking
Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:-s, but now that method doesn't work. for
fr:template:e, we have a tracking category,
Category:Articles using E without any arguments. we could do something similar in this case if we disallow the |1=
parameter and add tracking. or, we could rename your new template? do you have any suggestions on what to do? thank you.
Frietjes (
talk) 14:25, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
{{-s}}
template didn't have parameters, then you could track fr-to-en copy-paste uses easier (because
fr:template:-s has a required parameter)? If that's the case, then I see 3 possible paths forward:{{-s}}
. I really don't like this path at all.|1=
, and also create {{-es}}
to handle the cases where pluralization requires "-es" (i.e., words ending in "s", "x", or "z"). I was going to do this originally, but I figured it was kinda of a waste of a short-named template for the relatively infrequent need for a template for the "-es" suffix case. On the other hand, {{-es}}
would have some nice symmetry of use – similar to using {{
'}} and {{
's}}.{{
sclass-}}
to accept additional parameter(s) (or create a new similar template, perhaps something like {{sclassu-}}
?) to handle the space formatting in the italicized word itself (and also format the text unlinked, whereas {{
sclass-}}
always produces links now), rather than letting the suffix deal with the spacing. This would solve the very minor kerning issue when words like "-class" are adjacent to the italicized word. However, this is a lot more complicated of a template change, and probably also should be shopped around
WP:SHIP.{{-s|es}}
I've done so far.
sbb (
talk) 19:54, 12 August 2020 (UTC)@ Frietjes: Final update: Blanked & request deletion of the templates, and undid all the page edits I made that used them. I was trying to solve a presentation problem that exists in Vector.css, not any of the newer skins (don't care about older skins). Full documentation at: User:Sbb/Oops#Template -s. Sorry for the hassle. =) sbb ( talk) 03:55, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
If you click the ISBN on a source, it takes you to this page, where Worldcat is one option to search for the book. We don't need the general link and the Worldcat specific link. Parsecboy ( talk) 19:23, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
Seeing your pointers on the Peterhead Whaleboat on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships I am curious as to whether (a) you already knew about the Peterhead Whaleboat or (b) you knew of a good place to look up this information?
I ask because I am steadily gathering sources to work on traditional small craft, particularly open boats, and have not detected much of a level of knowledge in the editor community on the subject. (I am, for instance, waiting for the arrival in the mail of source that should allow me to sort out Ship's boat - I discovered the existence of this book from an e-mail conversation with the historian employed at USS Constitution.) ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 08:35, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. So the edit about the language template all across Kabuto. I was a little hasty, I'll admit it, and it only looks completely ugly on Safari. On Chrome on a desktop it looks fine, non-notable other than the italics. So yeah fair. Apologies for the revert.
It does however raise an interesting point I'd like to discuss. The automated template insertion you used has also put the template in section headers which, I believe, is a violation of MOS:HEADINGS. Specifically that headers can "Not contain template transclusions", it also says "These restrictions are necessary to avoid technical complications, and are not subject to override by local consensus." So the script you used and the replacement in the section headers appears to violate that and should be rectified. Unless I'm completely missing something. Am I misunderstanding the term transclusion here as its not technically pulling in other data in a way? Serious conversation, not trying to start anything. Canterbury Tail talk 01:40, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
{{
heading}}
template that supposedly is to be used when heading wikitext can't be used. But if you check that template's "What links here", restrict it to Article namespace, and only show transclusions, it's used on only 5 pages, and even then, it looks like only one of those uses is even slightly novel (creating section headings within a multi-column list). So while I'd like to have the need for {{
transl}} around foreign text justify use of the {{
heading}} template, I don't think it's a good idea.What exact accessibility info does the template add that isn't already provided by the headers? And isn't outweighed by the shrinking of the text? See the comments by BilCat on my talk page.-- Sturmvogel 66 ( talk) 09:36, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
{{refbegin}}
: "These bibliographies or reference lists frequently appear in dedicated sections within an article, variously titled ==References==, ==Works cited==, ==Bibliography==, ==Further reading==, ==Published works==, and so on." Scraping headers for various spellings, provides absolutely no means for accessibly accessing information, as compared to identifying <div class="refbegin">
HTML tags.div.reflist {font-size:100% !important;}
to
Special:MyPage/common.css. Alternately, if you wish to change the default for all users, edit the {{
refbegin}} template to not adjust font size. There are several ways to effect 100% font size change for you, and still maintain semantic information in the page.
sbb (
talk) 04:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
Given that Diannaa weighed in on this to your favor, an admin editor whose opinion I respect, go ahead and convert the citation to your preferred format. Nonetheless, you'll note that Diannaa also acknowledged its listing in Worldcat, which lists it the Chicago Manual of Style format. Technically I knew you were correct about Wikipedia guidelines; however, I am a professional (Ph.D) historian and know how we cite that work in the "real" world of academia. Victory is yours, nevertheless. We won't need to wait on other editors, even if they agree with my approach. -- Obenritter ( talk) 11:52, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello Sbb, I am a bit dismayed by the attention you have given to this wikipedia page but let me assure you that there is no inherent COI. I became concerned about the number of edits you made to this article and wondered if you did not have some interest in this particular issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MsMaam ( talk • contribs) 20:39, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
![]() |
The Original Barnstar |
Sbb, thanks for letting me know about my faux pas; I've added the references. The bribery involved in the construction of the Kongo caused the fall of a government as well as the arrest, trial, incarceration, and death of people--as such it's a significant fact that people ought to be aware of.
If you have modifications to suggest I'm glad to discuss this with you further. Patrick Marder. Guerre1859 ( talk) 03:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC) |
At this edit (line 1555-ish), you added this:
{{lang|gkm|dēmos}}
which renders as:
What did you really mean to write? Please preview your edits.
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 14:41, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
gkm
, for what I assume was medieval greek. I'm not sure where I sourced the code, but clearly it's not a correct ISO code. I've edited the article to use grc
in that instance.{{lang|grc-x-medieval|dēmos}}
→ dēmosHi, I noticed you've been updating the markup for some tables, but wanted to ask that you check them when you're done. There was a minor issue at List of aircraft carriers of the United States Navy, since fixed, but there are still some errors at Arleigh Burke-class destroyer that need to be fixed. Thanks - wolf 02:29, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
fixed <ref> in ((efn)) error", but after that edit, the multiple, large, red "error" notices still remain at the bottom of the table and now in the ref section. These errors weren't there before your initial edit, so it seems something is being missed. I know you're trying to make improvements, and even appreciate that, given the effort you're putting in. But articles should be left better than as they were found. Should the table be reverted to its previous state, or are you still working out the error issue? Thanks again - wolf 16:05, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
@ Thewolfchild: (Note: I outdented my reply because I couldn't get my tables below to display when they are indented in the reply.)
re: still working on {{efn}}
/<ref>
errors in
Arleigh Burke-class destroyer: No, I haven't asked at VP/T, but that's a good suggestion. That'll be my next step, in addition to more experimentation and trying to narrow down the issue in my sandbox.
re: table markup at e.g. USN subs: what I've been doing is all for data table accessibility. Basically, following Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Data tables tutorial ( MOS:DTT), data tables need a caption, row & column headers, and scope="col" / scope="row" for those headers. scope=... is there to help screen reader software associate headers with their corresponding data in the table.
Also, once a table is sortable, some glaring accessibility issues pop up where they might not be obvious. For instance, before I edited Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, the table had interstitial "subheader rows" separating Flight I, Flight IA, Flight II, etc. ... Arleigh Burkes. But the table is sortable, so the moment the table is sorted, all of those "subheader rows" get lumped together at the top or bottom, and their meaning is lost, no longer associated with the ships that belong to Flight I, etc. MOS:COLHEAD advises against doing that, either by splitting it into separate tables for each Flight, or more preferably, adding a data column specifying the Flight, thus allowing Flight to be another sortable characteristic.
the "plainrowheaders" addition to the table's class isn't an accessibility thing — I just didn't want to make too much of a visual change in my cavalier editing =). It just makes the row headings not bold, and default left-aligned, instead of center-aligned and bold like table heading cells normally are:
— sbb ( talk) 16:17, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I certainly hope so! =) — sbb ( talk) 19:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC) — sbb ( talk) 19:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I'm also working on the Moss project and saw your comment on the page for letter S in the HB+ section about the side by side tables. This is one of the html issues that I haven't been able to figure out how to fix. If these can't be sent to a Wikiproject, can you point me to a page that you've already fixed, so I can see how it's done and also fix these pages? And thanks for all your help on the Moss project. Ira Leviton ( talk) 13:56, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
<div style=display:inline-table>...</div>
. So that's how to eliminate all those <ol>
and <li>
from those types of use cases that appear in the cricket club articles.G'day Sbb, thanks for updating the table formatting on this article and add the nbsp's. I just wanted to add that I am probably not the only one that finds it irritating when editors change the structure and headings of the end matter sections of an article to one they prefer. I have had dozens of FAs promoted with the end matter structure the article had, and it is my view that no editor should be going around changing article reference structures that are completely within the existing guidelines of MOS:REFERENCES to one they prefer, and I suggest that if this has been your practice, you stop doing it. Thanks, Peacemaker67 ( click to talk to me) 21:44, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
Thewolfchild asked me to contact you about this problem, and states that you are reformatting tables that need updated markup. For some reason, I'm having formatting problems with the List of United States Navy three-star admirals since 2010. The date of rank column (the dates for each admiral, not the column name itself) are supposed to be align="right" (like this) but for some reason they are all misaligned. Can't find the issue myself, may need help to fix the alignment. You can remove this message once you've read it. Thanks! SuperWIKI ( talk) 17:01, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
(or, equivalently, the {{
nbsp}} template) instead of spaces in the date. However, there's another way: use style="white-space: nowrap;"
(as suggested at
Help:Table § Nowrap) for just one of the date cells (it won't work in the header cell for the date column), the cell with the longest date in terms of character width. So, a date with 20-something or 30-something for the day of month, where the month isn't "Jul" (the "l" in July is a bit narrow), with wide digits for the year. It does seem sort of "hacky" to me, but it is recommended by Help:Table.style="white-space: nowrap;"
works too. There isn't really a need to {{nowrap}} all the dates. It doesn't hurt anything to have them all nowrapped, but if a page gets large (especially easy with table list pages), a lot of template replacements slow down page processing on edit saves. Just personally speaking, I dislike seeing extra "clutter" that isn't necessary, but that's just a personal thing of mine, and I don't go removing all that (unless I'm doing huge sweeping edits for other reasons). And if, in the future, people decide that they don't mind if the year wraps in order to allow the column to be narrower (perhaps because of tight spacing for mobile, etc.), it's only a single place to make a quick edit to allow that to happen, rather than having to remove {{nowrap}} from every. single. instance. =)"style:width=5m;"
on the column is unnecessary, but not wrong, IMO."plainrowheaders"
to the class list of the table (I forgot to do that in my first edit). "plainrowheaders"
makes row header cells (the ones starting with ! scope="row" |
not-bold, and left-aligned. Add that back in, and Bob's your uncle.Thanks for your edits to the USS Samuel B. Roberts page, it's much freer reading & the section moves makes sense. My own personal bugbear with a lot of USS ship pages is that they're a bit too Marvel Comic & not encyclopedic "Steaming aggressively through a gauntlet of incoming shells" being an example although I don't wish to undermine the actions of the crews. Steve Bowen ( talk) 06:28, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
They say lives too short to explain the rules of Cricket to an American - so I won't but Try THIS
Did the relevant CSS markup updates for this page but the date alignment still won't fix. Would you mind checking for any problems? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SuperWIKI ( talk • contribs) 10:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
style=
table cell parameter for what looks like the widest date (in terms of character widths). —
sbb (
talk) 15:17, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for improving the style of List of Gato-class submarines, which I created. I just want to let you know that List of Balao-class submarines and List of Tench-class submarines could probably use similar rework at your convenience. RobDuch ( talk· contribs) 21:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi Sbb,
As requested I am leaving a message with you here, though I am uncertain how to simply leave a message without starting a topic, so I apologize if I have responded incorrectly.
I am Sunartesis. You removed a link I had placed from the LSJ to a public domain version of the LSJ. You said this link was inappropriate for an encyclopedia, but did not explain why. Respectfully, I cannot imagine it being more appropriate. Are you familiar with the LSJ, and did you visit the link? I think this removal is in error, and would like to better understand your reasons.
Many thanks, and have a great day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 13:49, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
I'm not affiliated, I'm aware of Wikipedia's policy regarding promotion, thanks for checking, and I'm not spamming, but just including relevant links to material I like, to a site I like. Please reinstate the link if you deem it appropriate, and if I may be so bold, maybe next time you could talk first with a person before reacting, much like I am sure you would prefer a police officer to talk to you first rather than give you a ticket before even walking up to the vehicle. Or that's how it seems to me. Just trying to help. Thanks again, Sunartesis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 21:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
That makes sense, it's a busy page. I think there are good reasons for that link (one really good one is because you can ctrl-f and search for terms of interest across multiple entries whereas other places like Tufts only show one entry at a time), but you don't seem interested in figuring out what's best here for Wiki surfers interested in the LSJ and are instead changing your reasons first from some unsupported appropriateness to promotion to clutter. Finally your third argument has some merit (still disagree, but hey, that's life). But constantly changing reasons makes it seem like something else is going on; I'd expect more from a Gnome. Anyways, moving on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 11:53, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
You're back to that? I'm zero-invested in that link, and the evidence is that I said I'm walking away from it, but you just persist. All I'm doing is defending in text so others can read it if need be that I am not as you accuse, so they can judge the incident for themselves. I'm sorry I replied here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunartesis ( talk • contribs) 15:46, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
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Do you have a source for Naval Battle of Guadalcanal for the change of 50 to 56 5-inch guns? The Banner talk 21:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
@ The Banner: The source of the counts is the info boxes for all of the destroyers listed in that section, and added up their 5" (127 mm) gun counts. — sbb ( talk) 00:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source.It is not meant to deny/revert my edit (backing up the editor by the IP editor, who I generally agree is problematic, but in this instance was correct) that merely makes WP articles internally self-consistent on a simple mathematical basis (that is, the sum of # of 5" guns brought to bear in the Naval Battle of Guadalcanal).
First, this causes churn for limited reader benefit and isn't necessarily a consensus choice on any particular page, but also math display=block has its own issues. It generates invalid and somewhat broken HTML unless you surround each instance by blank lines. It sometimes creates unnecessary phantom scroll bars in some browsers. It tries to fit next to floating images irrespective of formula width, sometimes causing the formula to not render entirely but need scrolling to view even on average-width windows. Etc.
If you are making a bunch of mathematical or other changes and you personally prefer math display=block, it's usually okay to make that change as long as you are willing to check to make sure that the results are good. But please don't just make mass changes across a large number of math pages that you aren't otherwise engaged with. It forces other people to come check and clean up after unless carefully done, and there's no consensus around forcing this change site wide. – jacobolus (t) 02:46, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
<dl></dl>
) with a single <dd>
without a preceding <dt>
. That is invalid HTML5. That is my main reason for making those changes. Sitewise, officially:
"Do not abuse block quotation markup to indent non-quotations. ... Avoid : (description list markup) for simple visual indentation in articles (common as it may be on talk pages). It causes accessibility problems and outputs invalid HTML."( MOS:INDENT)
"To display a mathematical formula or expression on its own line, it is recommended that <math display="block">... be used instead of :<math>...."( MOS:INDENTGAP)
<math display="block">
. I have noticed that blank lines in wikitext surrounding block math generates empty paragraph tags, but that can be solved by eliminating the blank wikitext lines. IMO that makes reading the wikitext slightly more difficult, but I'm not opposed to doing that to eliminate blank lines.<math>
(to prevent line breaks between the math and trailing punctuation); cleaning up or checking references match the style of refs used in the majority of the article; fixing ref errors; etc.<math display="block">
changes completely atomic in one commit (that is, merely a careful regex replacement, no other changes), followed by other gnomish edits. I'm absolutely more than happy to do that if it will help other editors be confident in my edits.The colon indentation is in theory an abuse of definition lists,C'mon, it's not theory. It's absolutely an abuse of
<dd>
.but it's also the main way Wikipedia math articles have been indenting block math since the beginning of Wikipediayep, and it's been wrong (but more or less accepted), and in the last few years, especially with WP generating HTML5, it's now invalid HTML, and won't be fixed by the parser, ever.
and there are thousands of such articles, and it has been working pretty well all these years.The journey of a thousand miles starts with small steps by committed editors.
Again, if you are writing a new mathematical article, substantially rewriting an article, or making other large-scale changes, feel free to switch all of the indentation in an article. But please stop running around making script assisted edits to large numbers of separate articles.To be clear, I am not making script-assisted edits. I'm using a regex find & manual replace in an external editor, to make sure I don't blanketly change a math block that has trailing text or manual equation number, etc.
display="block"
was added around 2104? 2015? I have faith they'll come around. But they specifically can't/won't change the parser to not produce lone <dd>
tags. As such, colon-indent is simply bad input.I consider some tuned regular expression find/replace to be a kind of a "script".You can't define terms to suit your whims when doing so blatantly misrepresents the person you are arguing against. — sbb ( talk) 16:44, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
I feel like you are intentionally not listening to what I am saying as part of some weird rhetorical strategy to misinterpret me so you can redirect the conversation. (Why you are doing this I can't really figure out.)Right. Back. At. You. You haven't listened to me, at all.
The point is that you are making many changes to a large number of articles in short succession without individual intention directing each edit.And there's where you're wrong. I am not doing a global search/replace. I'm letting the search find "
^: *<math
", and individually, visually evaluating each instance that it can safely be replaced with <math display="block">
(such as not having trailing text, equations, refs, etc.).I created a topic at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics § Should all math articles be immediately switched from : indentation to <math display=block>? where more editors can weigh in with their feedback. – jacobolus (t) 18:47, 15 June 2023 (UTC)
It's because you didn't wrap the math tag in your quote in nowiki tags, probably. -- JBL ( talk) 00:21, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
trying not to let myself fly off the handle: can I encourage you to disengage somewhat? You & jacobolus are clearly aggravating each other on a personal level a fair amount, so one of you needs to be the adult and step back from the personal back-and-forth. The conversation at WT:WPM is drawing in a sufficiently wide range of voices that I doubt it's necessary for you to be the main defender of your position. (As I said, I don't know enough about HTML to have an informed opinion on the technical question of how the world works -- but your argument seems a better account of how the world should work to me.) -- JBL ( talk) 00:37, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Gaussian units, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Coulombs.
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[[coulombs]]
-> [[coulomb]]s
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sbb (
talk) 15:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)Hi - I've just noticed your recent edits to {{ f/}} - I'm not quite sure what's happened here but something quite weird is going on. In Firefox (both logged in and logged out) it shows up with some kind of offset, so that it renders
f/ the 2 lens
rather than
the f/2 lens
However in Chrome it renders f/2 as normal, & the old version of the template rendered OK in Firefox. I don't suppose you have any idea what might be going on here & if there's an easy fix? Andrew Gray ( talk) 22:38, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
{{
f//testcases}}
and see if the examples that use {{
f//sandbox}}
(which correspondingly uses {{
f//sandbox/styles.css}}, which currently doesn't have a −0.8 rem "squeeze" for the first character that {{f/}}
does) show the same problem you're seeing? —
sbb (
talk) 19:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)white-space: nowrap;
to the <span>
that wraps the entire "f/number" string. It looks like it fixed the problem in Firefox. Can you test on your end? Thanks. —
sbb (
talk) 00:30, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Let's move this discussion to the template's talk page, Template talk:f/ § Firefox bug
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