The history of this archive begins at the beginning of the page history and ends at this diff.
You do not know yet whatit is like to find out that it was all a sham and to get out of the Wikipedia cult. It is not a joke. It is a shattering experience. Hence I strongly oppose placing the eye-opening article on BJAODN. Come to the support /information group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ex_Wikipedia_Support_Group/ TrollVandal 19:54, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
eternity
minutes. Please hold.
—
Saxifrage (
☎) [[]] 23:16, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Don't feel bad... these prediction scams are so fricking boring and pointless, the dates and numbers tend to melt into a blur!
Wyss 02:50, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Welcome to wiki! There's no real protocol for communicating with users. If the conversation is extended they usually agree to take it all to someone's talk page. Otherwise it's back and forth, like this, whatever works. Wyss 03:46, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Hmmm... thanks... I raised it from 6k to 12k, maybe that'll help. Wyss 04:17, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I absolutely deny making any anonymous edits deliberately, ever. I always try to log on, so I can keep track of what I'm doing. I am not an AOL user, I don't think AOL is available where I am and I can assure you I'm not dialling internationally to edit anything. I repeat I didn't edit any article including Evercat's talk page from any IP other than mine. Indeed I was very careful not to edit his user page and did not do so. I asked him to do so on his talk page several times. He did not do agree, I didn't think it was up to me to edit his page and did not. I will pursue arbitration on this matter eventually but I won't be editing his page just as I wouldn't expect him to edit mine. Ask Evercat what my IP is, he has posted it on WIkipedia and IRC repeatedly.
Your tone is more polite than your other left-wing friends. However it is in a pattern of constant allegation, constant personal attack by those self-identifying as leftists. I have been variously accused of being Chuck (who I've barely interacted with), Reithy (who I've never interacted with), and now five different IP numbers. If I didn't have a differing perspective to avowedly Marxist contributors to the Soviet Union article, would you be making these claims? I don't think so.
You may want to consider whether constantly accusing those with differing opinions of wrongdoing. It turns Wikipedia into a battleground not a place for producing a neutral encylopedia. Libertas
Look at the edit history of the now retired Evercat's talk page (something you might have considered doing BEFORE putting to me the allegation you did) and you will see I indeed deleted his personal attack from the talk page. He had accused me of trolling, as have many people associated with 172 and his views. Trolling seems to mean disagreeing with them. I believe troll is a seriously bad thing in the Wikipedia context.
I scrupulously avoided editing his user page for the reason that I think it was his decision and the community's about whether he should remove the hateful reference to my religion (not a personal attack btw) from his page. I messaged him on his talk page about that a few times as the edit history shows.
I will respond to the rest of your message when I have carefully considered it. But I certainly did not vandalize evercat's user page, if I'd wanted to do that presumably I wouldn't have bothered trying to persuade him to do the right thing.
Sax, you sound like a nice guy that says mean things nicely.
And that's fine.
But your own user page confirms your status as a socialist, a doctrine invented by Marx. Now that may not make you a Marxist but it explains your perspective.
I have Ronald Reagan on my user page so that explains mine!
Saying you have less extreme views than Ruy Lopez does not give me much comfort but you certainly have my encouragement to edit the articles neutrally, as we should all do.
I might check in and see if I can add something useful from a non Marxist, non socialist, non alternative lifestyle perspective.
I take your point about the labels but 172 for example who does not self-identify as a leftist so very clearly is, he has been involved in more ideological wars than Rush Limbaugh. And in his case, I'm sorry, labels are essential in outing his narrow, ideological input which is utterly intellectually bankrupt (to the point of citing Reverend Moon's media outlets).
As to the anonymous edits, I have dealt with that previously but reiterate that your accusation, gentle prompting, warning, counsel or whatever is wrong. I didn't do it and will refrain from accusing anyone (yet) of doing it in an attempt to get me banned. It was not a subtle exercise and reminds me of one particular user. Libertas
This is hopefully my last edit before my vacation can start properly. :-) The edits to my page were done by an opportunistic vandal, who I think calls himself "The Avenger". It's the same guy as wrote this for instance. I find it highly unlikely that this person is also Libertas. Evercat 22:22, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I note your comment in the edit summary. I need to grow a thick skin, you say. I have been accused of everything under the sun on that page and elsewhere, including withstanding a sustained campaign to get me blocked from those with a different political perspective to mine. To be frank, you'd squeal like a stuck pig if someone unleashed such a campaign on you so please keep your personal observations to yourself and we'll get on with improving the article. Libertas
I attempted to diminish the tension, something I heartily encourage you to try. I suggest you consider taking your own advice. You can remove, not remove, whatever, I don't mind was just trying to help. Libertas
Replied on my talk page. —
Charles
P.
(Mirv) 02:26, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've just opened up a user conduct RFC regarding Libertas's personal attacks and other deliberately disruptive behavior. Your comments to him are invoked as evidence of other users trying to resolve the dispute, which makes you one of a handful of people able to certify the basis of the dispute. If you want to do that or have any other input, I'd very much appreciate it. If you have any concerns, please contact me. RadicalSubversiv E 03:58, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
In your recent edit at European Union, you stated that it was inappropriate to link to an empty page. As far as I know, there is no policy against linking to non-existant articles. To the contrary, editors are encouraged to use wikilinks in appropriate places to show that there is not yet an article on that subject. Many articles are the result of someone seeing a red link and deciding to help expand Wikipedia. Do you think that the name " Status of the European Union" is itself inappropriate, or are you objecting to something else? — Saxifrage | ☎ 02:25, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your comment, "nobody cares where you're located, so please shut the hell up about it", on Talk:Sollog. It really needed saying. Cheers, dbenbenn | talk 02:52, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for zapping! I was hoping someone else would pick up where I left off. I didn't want to just be unilateral, since that might look biased. dbenbenn | talk 05:52, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
(This has been pulled out of the above comments, since The Number considerately posted it into the middle of an old conversation, completely ignorant of Talk page conventions which have been explained multiple times to him.)
Why should you worry about civility? They don't apply to others in your team so why should they apply to you? Personally the very fact that someone relentlessly called me a liar and, by calling me Ennis, by association, called me a pornographer and, this is the key point, no-one even tried to censure him in public is evidence how your little team works. I have dealt with this more on my own Talk Page - not that you're really interested as you have your own agenda. If you really did care about Wiki then as volunteers you'd conform to Wiki's rules. This means you treat contributors POLITELY and it also means that you have a Neutral Point of View.
What this means is that if people wish to post on Talk Sollog pages that they are indeed fans that you do not allow such posts to immediately be deleted against a background of baying that It's Ennis! Ennis! Ennis! Ennis posting through proxies!
That's just juvenile and, in the context of Wiki, is against Wiki policy.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Exactly, why bother about someone who complains that he has not been treated fairly? After all, why bother to comply with Wiki code about treatment of contributors. Much more important things in life like appeasing (or at least not annoying) people who have openly said they are are just baiting a contributor. After all, why 'police' a page in a fair and even-handed manner? The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Surely if you exhibitied bias that would be to your credit? If you bother to look through the archives on the Talk Sollog pages you'll see five people, all from the UK and all of them have been accused of being Ennis...up to the point where they just don't post anymore. One of them - Cardinal Chunder - even has his own anti-Ennis website but, no, that didn't convince people.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Now that's a different point. By all mean delete posst that are off the topic - which is about making the article better. Now, let's see, which posts did you delete? I wonder...did you delete the numerous posts screaming: "He's Ennis! he must be! He sits in Florida and phones up pubs in the UK to tell him what is in the pub!" Yes, I exaggerate to make the point - but not by much.
Also did you delete without comment or were you uncivil to any contributors?
One final point. Remember to delete all this and boast that you haven't read 'the spam Ennis screed'. It will give you more friends.
One more educative point. In the UK the word 'buffoon' is often seen as a friendly term.Ashley, who I referred to, is English.
Whereas, oddly, 'transparency', 'liar', 'pornographer' never are.
Funny, that.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
PS
Yet again this crashed whilst posting so I was logged out and I forgot to log in before posting - apologies.
The Number 01:12, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I deleted only Talk that was about you, about your location, and the accusations of being Ennis. You have completely ignored on-topic Talk that other people post in response to your points. You make claims that you don't back up, and the evidence that you provide for the claims that you do back up is utterly useless. Further, as soon as you stopped posting with your "there's no point" whining, Ennis started posting with his usual style. He also stopped right before you showed up. You have managed to contribute a single link to the article in two weeks and pages of argument, and I have every reason to believe you are Ennis. You're not convincing anyone that you're honest. So, I have two words for you, Ennis: piss off. —
Saxifrage |
☎ 23:05, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
It's OK though. I don't expect courtesy anymore or civility. It's been a learning curve for me - I started off optimistically looking for the best in editors. Now I know that was the unrealistic approach. Editors that fawn at others who ignore Wiki policies on respect for other contributor....As usual you accuse without any substantiation. If I had said to you: "You make claims that you don't back up" I'd have given an example. You didn't, of course.
Please note. I am being polite. You will never see posts from me telling others to 'Piss off' ...but then I haven't reached the exalted status you and your cabal think you have.
Now, as it looks as though you read my posts instead of knee-jerkingly deleting them, perhaps we can have a dialogue. That is what these pages are about isn't it?
Let me tell you why you're wrong as part of a consensus to reject my contributions.
1. I contributed a link and an extract to a letter from Ionescu. In that letter he heavily criticised Sollog/Ennis's skills as a Nostradamus 'interpreter' but (in my view) complimented his predictive ability. Now, you may think that instead that's a criticism of Ennis - maybe it is BUT it is still a link to a third party that has actually MET Ennis and discussed things with him. It is also (at the time I introduced it) evidence that in some circles Sollog/Ennis was being considered as a Nostradamus analyst/expert. Ionescu wouldn't waste his time in correspondence if he thought such correspondence was worthless.
2. I gave a link to a UK based group that was moderated. A useful resource if anyone wanted to read sensible discussions with Sollog BUT the posts are quite old.
3. I pointed out frequently, that everyone posting from the UK was automatically believed to be Ennis. That included Cardinal Chunder - and here is where I pointed to the stupidity of his accusers, their shallow thoughts - who has his own anti-Sollog site!!!!
4. I drew attention to the dangers of Sollog/Ennis by detailing how he forced someone - David Patrick - to stop criticising him and also how he/his minions faked emails and sent pornography round in the critic's name. I think that's important because it's a side of his character you lot may not be aware of. Useful to know in case any of you put personal details on your own pages.
Now those four points alone are sensible contributions.
Since then I have drawn attention to the hypocrisy of people like you and Wyss in acting as Hyenas, baying: "He's Ennis! he's Ennis! He's transparent" when I post and also the pointlessness of posting on the Sollog/Ennis page. This point you just proved by being unable to control your abuse towards me - you, with more experience than I, of Wiki and yet, seemingly you think their conventions do not apply to you. I call another English person a 'buffoon' which is not really rude and get banned; the prestigious little cabal members say : 'Piss off' to me and whoopee, that's fine.
(I'm not particularly bothered by your behaviour after all 'Number' is just an identity BUT it does show yet again how your little ruling group flout the conventions you impose on others.)
The point about 'we cannot check them' for the proof in the UK, thing is just another example as to how you seek to dupe people. Maybe too much association with certain other cyber-identities has made you think everyone’s stupid, maybe it was just a slip. Let me remind you. Ashley (says he) lives in Salisbury. Therefore he COULD have provided absolute proof but hey! that wouldn't be allowed because as I am in the UK I cannot be Ennis and that destroys your whole charade of having someone to bait (as Wyss put it - totally unremarked on BTW).
So your comment that the proof I offered was 'utterly useless' was, to use an Administrator's words (which he used to chastise me - again) unnecessarily provocative. It seems you cannot behave. OK what proof can I offer:
a. I could tell you what’s on TV; what the weather is like - but hey! from my satellite phone in Florida I could be phoning someone up asking them so I can dupe Wikis. (You really must have time on your hands if you think I'd do that!)
b. I could send a postcard to a UK contributor...but I don't know any addresses anyway, surely, I am simply getting my UK friends to do that.
c. Ummmm...I could send a photo of me registered post to someone, and have me standing at a London underground. Oh no... I'd have paid someone to do that.
d. Ummmm, let’s see. Make a phone call? Nope, I'd be getting someone to do that for me.
e. Personally visit all the hospitals in Salisbury? (Where Ashley works - I'd find him eventually) Nope, because that wouldn't be me (supposedly Ennis) but instead someone I was paying.
f. Quote from a newspaper that's not on the Internet, like a local newspaper? Nope, I’d be paying someone to do that.
g. Webcam? Dunno - maybe that's something that can be done through proxy?
h. Show you my website? Nope - I'd be showing you someone else's and paying them to pretend I am them.
See how stupid all this is? Also see how Wyss ducked my challenge - as you did too. You see I could prove who I was to Ashley as for £1,000 I could drive to him and in front of him log on here using Number password thus at least seriously minimising the chances that the person he meets is Ennis.
(Please bear in mind there are no photos of Ennis - anywhere on the net)
I could send my passport that shows no visits ever to USA...but then it's undoubtedly a fake passport...
I think if the 'nuances of formatting ' are my sin, compared to the blatant disregard of Wiki policy towards contributors (continually calling me Ennis and therefore saying I am lying) then I haven't much to worry about.
Please prove you're not Ennis - let's see how you do as at a guess you’re in USA.
I'm waiting....
The Number 00:24, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
From the Sollog Article:
There is zero evidence of any actual "fan" of Sollog.
My response:#
Someone posted today saying they were a 'fan'.
Naturally their post was deleted.
The Number 17:11, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Fans from UK post but then get deleted. What proof is required? The Number 03:41, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That's three days ago - no-one answered. Why? Because you don't WANT proof because with the proof would come embarrassment at how stupid all you who think I am NOT in the UK or I am Ennis or he has no Fans, would look!
The Number 00:55, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
(This account was created briefly after The Number stopped responding for a lengthy time, has not contributed for more than a day, and knew exactly where to find an lengthy debate to give his little gem of information despite my not having said much of anything at Talk:Sollog for ages. Thus, it is an obvious sockpuppet of The Number.)
I am a Sollogfan but I don't expect you to believe me as you haven't believed anyone else Sollogfan 13:21, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
First, demonstrate how I am contradicting myself (rather than simply make an unsupported claim) and I will cede that I made a faux pas. Second, whether I commented on certain aspects of your previous posts or not doesn't indicate that I read and understood or didn't read and not understand, so your syllogism that concludes "I don't know what I'm on about" is invalid. And which "point" is this that you made that you say didn't counter mine, that you claim I "mistook" for countering it?
You're getting more and more abbreviated and unclear in your claims. I would hate for anyone reading this to think that you are deliberately making your arguments unclear and ambiguous, so please make your claims clearly and succinctly. Your mirth seems to be getting in the way of your ability to express yourself plainly. — Saxifrage | ☎ 00:38, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
'Denomination' isn't limited to Protestantism, although it might be most commonly used in that context. AHD defines it as: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy". Googling shows that censuses often explicitly acknowledge Catholicism as a 'denomination' and implicitly acknowledge non-Christian faiths (in that "what is your denomination?" is frequently the only religious question, but non-Christian faiths are routinely reported in the results). Couple of examples http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=984 here] and here.
It is sometimes seen as a Christian term (the 2001 .au census asked instead about "religious affiliation" for this reason), but it was the best word I could find.
The reason for the change was that somebody complained (off-Wikipedia) that "it's not the religions that ban polygamy, it's the churches", or words to that effect, and he had a point: this is more a matter of the churches' positions than prohibitions in the relevant original scriptures. But "churches" seemed more specifically-Christian than "denominations", so I picked the latter as the best of a bad lot. Suggestions for improvement most welcome. -- Calair 04:13, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hi Saxifrage! I'm glad you like the new graphic, as I'm currently in the process of creating maps for Europe: I have also made one for EUROPOL and for the regions of Europe ( Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Northern Europe and Southern Europe). For the map, I used the avg. GDP PPP figure of $24,817, which is actually the correct figure. Where did $23,905 come from? I know it's been there longer, but I don't know where it came from. I think the $24,817 was achieved by dividing the EU's GDP, which was taken from the IMF site, by the population according to CIA World Factbook, EU entry. Even that population seems to be high, so I think the EU average GDP should probably be even higher. Mind you, the average GDP per capita figures are always inaccurate, as accurate as they look, because of the problem of counting the EU's population (and any country's population, for that matter). By the way, I will soon be adding a new column in the table (the Standard of living table) to show the GDP per capita of each country when EU=100 (basically, what the map shows in text form). It used to be there but at about mid-2004 it got taken out by a user and hasn't been back since. I think it's useful to compare individual state GDPs with the EU average. Cheers, Ronline 09:49, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Sax, you've obviously put a lot of work into changing the light red to a dark red, but it doesn't make the page better. I hope that you will change it back. Much of the text in the table, i.e., the names of MPs and of their ridings, is linked to pages that don't exist, and appears, therefore, in red. Red text against a dark red background is very hard to read, especially for us old folks. The point of tables on wikipedia is to convey information, not make art. There was a clear and evident difference between the Yeas and the Nays before your change, and it was considerably easier to read the text. Please consider my request. Kevintoronto 17:47, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up on the whole image thing. (Are you "beginning" on livejournal?) So I asked to see if anybody interested in the micro-radio movement wanted to help write articles and I got a guy who knows nothing about it and doesn't think it's wiki-worthy writing my article for me and bites my leg off for leaving it as a sub-stub (I swear I was gonna write it). This of course is on my second day. So, I being a smart-ass (probably just as bad) created that. Congrats on the Harmonious Editing Club. :) Forgot to sign ParkingStones 23:57, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've notified the Committee. Thanks.
James F. (talk) 11:15, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
here is the source: http://www.portvancouver.com/media/port_facts.html
next time i will refer to it in edit comment, thank you for reminding me
also, total foreign exports in North America and total cargo volume are different statistics, but incidentally you are correct, the Port of Vancouver is 1st in North America in total foreign exports and also 1st in total cargo volume on the West Coast.
I removed the redlink because it is very unlikely there will ever be an article on that org, since it's not notable and only exists for one purpose. No sense in having a red link. -- Spinboy 00:20, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Did the Worms release "Semi-Conducted" in both CD and DVD formats? I have a copy myself, and it's very much a CD.
I said 'bye' and I meant it. I haven't 'returned' (i.e. under another ID) as yet. Check whatever you have to check and you'll see I am not Sollogfan. If you actually look at the 'corrections' to spelling it was not just my misspelling that was corrected. I - honestly - suggest you waste no time on this. I am posting now ONLy cos it's got silly. The Number 21:27, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hi Saxifrage, I've filed an arbitration request against The Number and Sollogfan. Please consider if you want to add yourself as a plaintiff. Cheers, -- MarkSweep 09:37, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
The history of this archive begins at the beginning of the page history and ends at this diff.
You do not know yet whatit is like to find out that it was all a sham and to get out of the Wikipedia cult. It is not a joke. It is a shattering experience. Hence I strongly oppose placing the eye-opening article on BJAODN. Come to the support /information group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ex_Wikipedia_Support_Group/ TrollVandal 19:54, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
eternity
minutes. Please hold.
—
Saxifrage (
☎) [[]] 23:16, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Don't feel bad... these prediction scams are so fricking boring and pointless, the dates and numbers tend to melt into a blur!
Wyss 02:50, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Welcome to wiki! There's no real protocol for communicating with users. If the conversation is extended they usually agree to take it all to someone's talk page. Otherwise it's back and forth, like this, whatever works. Wyss 03:46, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Hmmm... thanks... I raised it from 6k to 12k, maybe that'll help. Wyss 04:17, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I absolutely deny making any anonymous edits deliberately, ever. I always try to log on, so I can keep track of what I'm doing. I am not an AOL user, I don't think AOL is available where I am and I can assure you I'm not dialling internationally to edit anything. I repeat I didn't edit any article including Evercat's talk page from any IP other than mine. Indeed I was very careful not to edit his user page and did not do so. I asked him to do so on his talk page several times. He did not do agree, I didn't think it was up to me to edit his page and did not. I will pursue arbitration on this matter eventually but I won't be editing his page just as I wouldn't expect him to edit mine. Ask Evercat what my IP is, he has posted it on WIkipedia and IRC repeatedly.
Your tone is more polite than your other left-wing friends. However it is in a pattern of constant allegation, constant personal attack by those self-identifying as leftists. I have been variously accused of being Chuck (who I've barely interacted with), Reithy (who I've never interacted with), and now five different IP numbers. If I didn't have a differing perspective to avowedly Marxist contributors to the Soviet Union article, would you be making these claims? I don't think so.
You may want to consider whether constantly accusing those with differing opinions of wrongdoing. It turns Wikipedia into a battleground not a place for producing a neutral encylopedia. Libertas
Look at the edit history of the now retired Evercat's talk page (something you might have considered doing BEFORE putting to me the allegation you did) and you will see I indeed deleted his personal attack from the talk page. He had accused me of trolling, as have many people associated with 172 and his views. Trolling seems to mean disagreeing with them. I believe troll is a seriously bad thing in the Wikipedia context.
I scrupulously avoided editing his user page for the reason that I think it was his decision and the community's about whether he should remove the hateful reference to my religion (not a personal attack btw) from his page. I messaged him on his talk page about that a few times as the edit history shows.
I will respond to the rest of your message when I have carefully considered it. But I certainly did not vandalize evercat's user page, if I'd wanted to do that presumably I wouldn't have bothered trying to persuade him to do the right thing.
Sax, you sound like a nice guy that says mean things nicely.
And that's fine.
But your own user page confirms your status as a socialist, a doctrine invented by Marx. Now that may not make you a Marxist but it explains your perspective.
I have Ronald Reagan on my user page so that explains mine!
Saying you have less extreme views than Ruy Lopez does not give me much comfort but you certainly have my encouragement to edit the articles neutrally, as we should all do.
I might check in and see if I can add something useful from a non Marxist, non socialist, non alternative lifestyle perspective.
I take your point about the labels but 172 for example who does not self-identify as a leftist so very clearly is, he has been involved in more ideological wars than Rush Limbaugh. And in his case, I'm sorry, labels are essential in outing his narrow, ideological input which is utterly intellectually bankrupt (to the point of citing Reverend Moon's media outlets).
As to the anonymous edits, I have dealt with that previously but reiterate that your accusation, gentle prompting, warning, counsel or whatever is wrong. I didn't do it and will refrain from accusing anyone (yet) of doing it in an attempt to get me banned. It was not a subtle exercise and reminds me of one particular user. Libertas
This is hopefully my last edit before my vacation can start properly. :-) The edits to my page were done by an opportunistic vandal, who I think calls himself "The Avenger". It's the same guy as wrote this for instance. I find it highly unlikely that this person is also Libertas. Evercat 22:22, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I note your comment in the edit summary. I need to grow a thick skin, you say. I have been accused of everything under the sun on that page and elsewhere, including withstanding a sustained campaign to get me blocked from those with a different political perspective to mine. To be frank, you'd squeal like a stuck pig if someone unleashed such a campaign on you so please keep your personal observations to yourself and we'll get on with improving the article. Libertas
I attempted to diminish the tension, something I heartily encourage you to try. I suggest you consider taking your own advice. You can remove, not remove, whatever, I don't mind was just trying to help. Libertas
Replied on my talk page. —
Charles
P.
(Mirv) 02:26, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've just opened up a user conduct RFC regarding Libertas's personal attacks and other deliberately disruptive behavior. Your comments to him are invoked as evidence of other users trying to resolve the dispute, which makes you one of a handful of people able to certify the basis of the dispute. If you want to do that or have any other input, I'd very much appreciate it. If you have any concerns, please contact me. RadicalSubversiv E 03:58, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
In your recent edit at European Union, you stated that it was inappropriate to link to an empty page. As far as I know, there is no policy against linking to non-existant articles. To the contrary, editors are encouraged to use wikilinks in appropriate places to show that there is not yet an article on that subject. Many articles are the result of someone seeing a red link and deciding to help expand Wikipedia. Do you think that the name " Status of the European Union" is itself inappropriate, or are you objecting to something else? — Saxifrage | ☎ 02:25, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)
Thank you so much for your comment, "nobody cares where you're located, so please shut the hell up about it", on Talk:Sollog. It really needed saying. Cheers, dbenbenn | talk 02:52, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for zapping! I was hoping someone else would pick up where I left off. I didn't want to just be unilateral, since that might look biased. dbenbenn | talk 05:52, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
(This has been pulled out of the above comments, since The Number considerately posted it into the middle of an old conversation, completely ignorant of Talk page conventions which have been explained multiple times to him.)
Why should you worry about civility? They don't apply to others in your team so why should they apply to you? Personally the very fact that someone relentlessly called me a liar and, by calling me Ennis, by association, called me a pornographer and, this is the key point, no-one even tried to censure him in public is evidence how your little team works. I have dealt with this more on my own Talk Page - not that you're really interested as you have your own agenda. If you really did care about Wiki then as volunteers you'd conform to Wiki's rules. This means you treat contributors POLITELY and it also means that you have a Neutral Point of View.
What this means is that if people wish to post on Talk Sollog pages that they are indeed fans that you do not allow such posts to immediately be deleted against a background of baying that It's Ennis! Ennis! Ennis! Ennis posting through proxies!
That's just juvenile and, in the context of Wiki, is against Wiki policy.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Exactly, why bother about someone who complains that he has not been treated fairly? After all, why bother to comply with Wiki code about treatment of contributors. Much more important things in life like appeasing (or at least not annoying) people who have openly said they are are just baiting a contributor. After all, why 'police' a page in a fair and even-handed manner? The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Surely if you exhibitied bias that would be to your credit? If you bother to look through the archives on the Talk Sollog pages you'll see five people, all from the UK and all of them have been accused of being Ennis...up to the point where they just don't post anymore. One of them - Cardinal Chunder - even has his own anti-Ennis website but, no, that didn't convince people.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Now that's a different point. By all mean delete posst that are off the topic - which is about making the article better. Now, let's see, which posts did you delete? I wonder...did you delete the numerous posts screaming: "He's Ennis! he must be! He sits in Florida and phones up pubs in the UK to tell him what is in the pub!" Yes, I exaggerate to make the point - but not by much.
Also did you delete without comment or were you uncivil to any contributors?
One final point. Remember to delete all this and boast that you haven't read 'the spam Ennis screed'. It will give you more friends.
One more educative point. In the UK the word 'buffoon' is often seen as a friendly term.Ashley, who I referred to, is English.
Whereas, oddly, 'transparency', 'liar', 'pornographer' never are.
Funny, that.
The Number 01:01, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
PS
Yet again this crashed whilst posting so I was logged out and I forgot to log in before posting - apologies.
The Number 01:12, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I deleted only Talk that was about you, about your location, and the accusations of being Ennis. You have completely ignored on-topic Talk that other people post in response to your points. You make claims that you don't back up, and the evidence that you provide for the claims that you do back up is utterly useless. Further, as soon as you stopped posting with your "there's no point" whining, Ennis started posting with his usual style. He also stopped right before you showed up. You have managed to contribute a single link to the article in two weeks and pages of argument, and I have every reason to believe you are Ennis. You're not convincing anyone that you're honest. So, I have two words for you, Ennis: piss off. —
Saxifrage |
☎ 23:05, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
It's OK though. I don't expect courtesy anymore or civility. It's been a learning curve for me - I started off optimistically looking for the best in editors. Now I know that was the unrealistic approach. Editors that fawn at others who ignore Wiki policies on respect for other contributor....As usual you accuse without any substantiation. If I had said to you: "You make claims that you don't back up" I'd have given an example. You didn't, of course.
Please note. I am being polite. You will never see posts from me telling others to 'Piss off' ...but then I haven't reached the exalted status you and your cabal think you have.
Now, as it looks as though you read my posts instead of knee-jerkingly deleting them, perhaps we can have a dialogue. That is what these pages are about isn't it?
Let me tell you why you're wrong as part of a consensus to reject my contributions.
1. I contributed a link and an extract to a letter from Ionescu. In that letter he heavily criticised Sollog/Ennis's skills as a Nostradamus 'interpreter' but (in my view) complimented his predictive ability. Now, you may think that instead that's a criticism of Ennis - maybe it is BUT it is still a link to a third party that has actually MET Ennis and discussed things with him. It is also (at the time I introduced it) evidence that in some circles Sollog/Ennis was being considered as a Nostradamus analyst/expert. Ionescu wouldn't waste his time in correspondence if he thought such correspondence was worthless.
2. I gave a link to a UK based group that was moderated. A useful resource if anyone wanted to read sensible discussions with Sollog BUT the posts are quite old.
3. I pointed out frequently, that everyone posting from the UK was automatically believed to be Ennis. That included Cardinal Chunder - and here is where I pointed to the stupidity of his accusers, their shallow thoughts - who has his own anti-Sollog site!!!!
4. I drew attention to the dangers of Sollog/Ennis by detailing how he forced someone - David Patrick - to stop criticising him and also how he/his minions faked emails and sent pornography round in the critic's name. I think that's important because it's a side of his character you lot may not be aware of. Useful to know in case any of you put personal details on your own pages.
Now those four points alone are sensible contributions.
Since then I have drawn attention to the hypocrisy of people like you and Wyss in acting as Hyenas, baying: "He's Ennis! he's Ennis! He's transparent" when I post and also the pointlessness of posting on the Sollog/Ennis page. This point you just proved by being unable to control your abuse towards me - you, with more experience than I, of Wiki and yet, seemingly you think their conventions do not apply to you. I call another English person a 'buffoon' which is not really rude and get banned; the prestigious little cabal members say : 'Piss off' to me and whoopee, that's fine.
(I'm not particularly bothered by your behaviour after all 'Number' is just an identity BUT it does show yet again how your little ruling group flout the conventions you impose on others.)
The point about 'we cannot check them' for the proof in the UK, thing is just another example as to how you seek to dupe people. Maybe too much association with certain other cyber-identities has made you think everyone’s stupid, maybe it was just a slip. Let me remind you. Ashley (says he) lives in Salisbury. Therefore he COULD have provided absolute proof but hey! that wouldn't be allowed because as I am in the UK I cannot be Ennis and that destroys your whole charade of having someone to bait (as Wyss put it - totally unremarked on BTW).
So your comment that the proof I offered was 'utterly useless' was, to use an Administrator's words (which he used to chastise me - again) unnecessarily provocative. It seems you cannot behave. OK what proof can I offer:
a. I could tell you what’s on TV; what the weather is like - but hey! from my satellite phone in Florida I could be phoning someone up asking them so I can dupe Wikis. (You really must have time on your hands if you think I'd do that!)
b. I could send a postcard to a UK contributor...but I don't know any addresses anyway, surely, I am simply getting my UK friends to do that.
c. Ummmm...I could send a photo of me registered post to someone, and have me standing at a London underground. Oh no... I'd have paid someone to do that.
d. Ummmm, let’s see. Make a phone call? Nope, I'd be getting someone to do that for me.
e. Personally visit all the hospitals in Salisbury? (Where Ashley works - I'd find him eventually) Nope, because that wouldn't be me (supposedly Ennis) but instead someone I was paying.
f. Quote from a newspaper that's not on the Internet, like a local newspaper? Nope, I’d be paying someone to do that.
g. Webcam? Dunno - maybe that's something that can be done through proxy?
h. Show you my website? Nope - I'd be showing you someone else's and paying them to pretend I am them.
See how stupid all this is? Also see how Wyss ducked my challenge - as you did too. You see I could prove who I was to Ashley as for £1,000 I could drive to him and in front of him log on here using Number password thus at least seriously minimising the chances that the person he meets is Ennis.
(Please bear in mind there are no photos of Ennis - anywhere on the net)
I could send my passport that shows no visits ever to USA...but then it's undoubtedly a fake passport...
I think if the 'nuances of formatting ' are my sin, compared to the blatant disregard of Wiki policy towards contributors (continually calling me Ennis and therefore saying I am lying) then I haven't much to worry about.
Please prove you're not Ennis - let's see how you do as at a guess you’re in USA.
I'm waiting....
The Number 00:24, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
From the Sollog Article:
There is zero evidence of any actual "fan" of Sollog.
My response:#
Someone posted today saying they were a 'fan'.
Naturally their post was deleted.
The Number 17:11, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Fans from UK post but then get deleted. What proof is required? The Number 03:41, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That's three days ago - no-one answered. Why? Because you don't WANT proof because with the proof would come embarrassment at how stupid all you who think I am NOT in the UK or I am Ennis or he has no Fans, would look!
The Number 00:55, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
(This account was created briefly after The Number stopped responding for a lengthy time, has not contributed for more than a day, and knew exactly where to find an lengthy debate to give his little gem of information despite my not having said much of anything at Talk:Sollog for ages. Thus, it is an obvious sockpuppet of The Number.)
I am a Sollogfan but I don't expect you to believe me as you haven't believed anyone else Sollogfan 13:21, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
First, demonstrate how I am contradicting myself (rather than simply make an unsupported claim) and I will cede that I made a faux pas. Second, whether I commented on certain aspects of your previous posts or not doesn't indicate that I read and understood or didn't read and not understand, so your syllogism that concludes "I don't know what I'm on about" is invalid. And which "point" is this that you made that you say didn't counter mine, that you claim I "mistook" for countering it?
You're getting more and more abbreviated and unclear in your claims. I would hate for anyone reading this to think that you are deliberately making your arguments unclear and ambiguous, so please make your claims clearly and succinctly. Your mirth seems to be getting in the way of your ability to express yourself plainly. — Saxifrage | ☎ 00:38, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
'Denomination' isn't limited to Protestantism, although it might be most commonly used in that context. AHD defines it as: "A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy". Googling shows that censuses often explicitly acknowledge Catholicism as a 'denomination' and implicitly acknowledge non-Christian faiths (in that "what is your denomination?" is frequently the only religious question, but non-Christian faiths are routinely reported in the results). Couple of examples http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=984 here] and here.
It is sometimes seen as a Christian term (the 2001 .au census asked instead about "religious affiliation" for this reason), but it was the best word I could find.
The reason for the change was that somebody complained (off-Wikipedia) that "it's not the religions that ban polygamy, it's the churches", or words to that effect, and he had a point: this is more a matter of the churches' positions than prohibitions in the relevant original scriptures. But "churches" seemed more specifically-Christian than "denominations", so I picked the latter as the best of a bad lot. Suggestions for improvement most welcome. -- Calair 04:13, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hi Saxifrage! I'm glad you like the new graphic, as I'm currently in the process of creating maps for Europe: I have also made one for EUROPOL and for the regions of Europe ( Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Northern Europe and Southern Europe). For the map, I used the avg. GDP PPP figure of $24,817, which is actually the correct figure. Where did $23,905 come from? I know it's been there longer, but I don't know where it came from. I think the $24,817 was achieved by dividing the EU's GDP, which was taken from the IMF site, by the population according to CIA World Factbook, EU entry. Even that population seems to be high, so I think the EU average GDP should probably be even higher. Mind you, the average GDP per capita figures are always inaccurate, as accurate as they look, because of the problem of counting the EU's population (and any country's population, for that matter). By the way, I will soon be adding a new column in the table (the Standard of living table) to show the GDP per capita of each country when EU=100 (basically, what the map shows in text form). It used to be there but at about mid-2004 it got taken out by a user and hasn't been back since. I think it's useful to compare individual state GDPs with the EU average. Cheers, Ronline 09:49, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Sax, you've obviously put a lot of work into changing the light red to a dark red, but it doesn't make the page better. I hope that you will change it back. Much of the text in the table, i.e., the names of MPs and of their ridings, is linked to pages that don't exist, and appears, therefore, in red. Red text against a dark red background is very hard to read, especially for us old folks. The point of tables on wikipedia is to convey information, not make art. There was a clear and evident difference between the Yeas and the Nays before your change, and it was considerably easier to read the text. Please consider my request. Kevintoronto 17:47, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up on the whole image thing. (Are you "beginning" on livejournal?) So I asked to see if anybody interested in the micro-radio movement wanted to help write articles and I got a guy who knows nothing about it and doesn't think it's wiki-worthy writing my article for me and bites my leg off for leaving it as a sub-stub (I swear I was gonna write it). This of course is on my second day. So, I being a smart-ass (probably just as bad) created that. Congrats on the Harmonious Editing Club. :) Forgot to sign ParkingStones 23:57, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've notified the Committee. Thanks.
James F. (talk) 11:15, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
here is the source: http://www.portvancouver.com/media/port_facts.html
next time i will refer to it in edit comment, thank you for reminding me
also, total foreign exports in North America and total cargo volume are different statistics, but incidentally you are correct, the Port of Vancouver is 1st in North America in total foreign exports and also 1st in total cargo volume on the West Coast.
I removed the redlink because it is very unlikely there will ever be an article on that org, since it's not notable and only exists for one purpose. No sense in having a red link. -- Spinboy 00:20, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Did the Worms release "Semi-Conducted" in both CD and DVD formats? I have a copy myself, and it's very much a CD.
I said 'bye' and I meant it. I haven't 'returned' (i.e. under another ID) as yet. Check whatever you have to check and you'll see I am not Sollogfan. If you actually look at the 'corrections' to spelling it was not just my misspelling that was corrected. I - honestly - suggest you waste no time on this. I am posting now ONLy cos it's got silly. The Number 21:27, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Hi Saxifrage, I've filed an arbitration request against The Number and Sollogfan. Please consider if you want to add yourself as a plaintiff. Cheers, -- MarkSweep 09:37, 15 May 2005 (UTC)