This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Your point is well-taken and I tried to clarify my point on that talk page. Regards. RalphLender talk 17:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi!
A quick note to say thanks for the changes to List of portable software - it certainly needs some attention!
Two thoughts though; wouldn't it have been better to leave the external links in for those systems which don't have a Wikipedia entry? I would have said it would reduce value to readers if they just have the name of the application, with no other information to go on (i.e. some means of finding out more; typing the name of the software into something like Google would produce a lot of irrelevant hits due to the use of pretty generic names for some of the packages)
I think the main problem with this page is that there's a lot of software listed on it which isn't actually portable - many of the applications have to be installed on a PC and then copied over to a USB drive - at which point it's claimed that they're "portable" (e.g. not that long ago, someone added "World of Warcraft", on the basis that if you installed it, copied all the files from the installation directory onto a removable drive and applied a software crack to it, it would work "portably"!) Nuwewsco 23:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually I (slightly) prefer the current version as edited by I'clast, since this is supposed to say something about Barrett. The rest can be found in the linked King Bio article. I suppose the current version could be called worse from Barrett's POV but I believe it is much closer to the sources. (FWIW, I also believe the entire para needs to go since it's WP:SYN and arguably OR. But I'm not about to delete it...) AvB ÷ talk 17:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick thanks for your assistance. Nposs 03:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
As we are new to Wikipedia, we violated fundamental rules and are now digging our way out of the hole we created for ourselves. Your posting of pertinent links to Wikipedia policy will help us recover. Thanks for your help. -- Save OU Sports 15:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)Save OU Sports
I restored relevant links that you had removed from the Health freedom movement article. I did not spam and the links were well integrated in the article text. The article is far from a “mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files”. I get the impression (from reading on this Talk Page) that you are interpreting the EL policy in an unnecessary strict way that makes the articles less useful for the readers. MaxPont 16:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Please avoid making this kind of edit. It makes for big trouble, much worse than leaving it in. These are not personal attacks of the sort you are encouraged to remove. They do not rise to that level. Fred Bauder 20:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
But I'm really tired of the harassment and editwarring that certain editors feel that they can get away with. I've said it before, and I'll say it again now, I don't know how to deal with them and I find it very troubling that few appear to be dealing with it at all.
There was discussion of article probation in the Ilena/Fyslee Arbitration. Has such a thing been done before? I'd like to learn what it means, and what's happened when it's been tried.
Also, if you didnt already notice, I disagree with your observations, but that's really only a trivial part of my reply [8]. -- Ronz 01:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find better ways of dealing with Tendentious editing, Disruptive editing, and the all-to-common bullying within Wikipedia. I'm doing this in response to my own involvement into the events surrounding the Ilena and Fyslee arbitration. I feel the arbitration should have never have taken place, and that it did only because numerous editors let the problems get so very out of hand for such a very long that there was no other choice. I'm looking for some preventative measures. First and foremost in my mind is getting editors to be more respectful of each other by being more respectful of the numerous policies and guidelines related to civility. Refactoring is a tool I learned after the ArbCom had already started. It's a very useful tool, but not widely enough accepted to be the solution I had hoped for. I'm still trying, though I'm getting quite disgusted at the situation. -- Ronz 21:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Ronz, being a new editor I hope it's ok to ask you about your comment on Stephen Barrett talk page about talking in circles still. I suggested adding the little bit saying "and he was not board certified" to the end of the sentence. Do you think that just this little bit is still breaking with policy of Wikipedia and the discussions that have been on going on the talk page? I am still learning the rules here and some of them are at times very confusing to me so I am hoping to understand your thoughts on this so I can learn and if I am in error, make the correction appropriate. I thought this was a way to stop the feuding and compromise without any negatives falling into the article like the wanting of some to add that Dr. Barrett didn't pass his test and so forth. Would you please be kind enough to try to explain why you still think my suggestion is talking is circles? I would really appreciate hearing your input on this and I could learn some more hopefully. My learning curve is real slow so I stick pretty much to talk pages with ideas and wait for what the group on the page has to say. I have only edited something into an article two or three times so bold I am not! :) Again, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. Happy Holidays! -- Crohnie 21:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to clutter up your talk page Ronz, but Levine is labouring under the miscomprehension that the current non notable fact = criticism from my perspective. I have been discussing the overall content of the article in question with Crohnie with reference to the current "fact"'s notability. Then I point out other BLPs (following on from Ronz's lead) to Crohnie to guide him to how other ... better written ... BLPs exist in WP. I am using the current "fact" in the context of notability, not the context of the overall article suffering undue weight. Please stop making this assertion. Shot info 00:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Ronz, thanks for explaining on my talk page. I responded back to you on my talk page. -- Crohnie 20:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
(Refactor: Copy of prod notice removed - no need for it here - personal attack removed) So, include delete in Player/Stage_Project, delete now from the page or include a merge. And delete also Microsoft Robotics Studioor merge them in a common article. If you want I can merge Microsoft Robotics Studio and Player Project. -- Altermike 06:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Rontz, Thank you for your comment. Perhaps I should have stressed the words appropriately. We all know the following example: "None of woman born shall harm Macbeth"; "None of woman born shall harm Macbeth". Now consider this: "I find it very frustrating that no notable critics have so far made my notable criticisms of Barrett". robert2957 12:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Ronz,
I don't think I understand your comment: "You're not trying to determine importance by
asserting it without reference to sources." Do you mean that I am trying to determine
importance by asserting it without reference to sources. ?
robert2957
20:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Ronz, Many thanks for your response. I am sorry that I misunderstood you. I hadn't read the previous discussion to which you refer me and I think I was a little tired when I responded to your comment. I don't question anyone's good faith either. Not that of other Wikipedia editors or Dr. Barrett. robert2957 06:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi further to your removal of the links, referring to this - WP:NOT#LINK, was there a consensus reached to remove the links? And have you also removed the links from Barra brava and Torcida which were originally on the Ultras list but removed to those pages in order to clean the list up and make it more manageable? ♦Tangerines BFC ♦· Talk 15:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Template:pnc for the discussion, which will certainly spill over into larger issues. Your thoughts would be appreciated. -- Kevin Murray 23:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Good afternoon (
GMT time); I have accepted a
Mediation Cabal
case - requested by
Levine2112 - to which you are listed as a party. Mediation has commenced at the
case talkpage, where you are invited to participate.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me via email, IRC or my talk page; I will try to answer all your questions as fully as possible in so far as it does not compromise my neutrality. Kind regards, |
Hi, I have reverted your deletions on Manufacturing Execution System as the links that were on the article benefit the user. Ideally of course we would like to have more information about this topic, but at present we dont, so linking to external sites that do host relevant information is "a good thing". Cheers, John —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayvdb ( talk • contribs)
Hi Ronz, I haven't responded to the mediation because I never did anything like this and so I have been just keeping an eye on it. I noticed that the same arguments are being made with Levine and that now he thinks that all of the information about Barrett failing the test should be in the article. I really though this would go differently than it has. I thought that consideration and talk of the policies that you and others were helping me to understand would be discussed. I only see you mentioning it after the second response from Levine about the reasons it abides by policy. Is this how these things always look like? To be honest, I am quite disappointed by the way editors responded on this mediation forum compared to the conversations on the talk pages, esp. about notability. No mentions at all about how board certification was not popular back in Barrett's day, and the failure rates of others taking the same tests. With this mediator having these templates and special rules on how he wants formatting has prevented me to be bold enough to give my own feeling on this matter. I guess I want to know is if I can still give input with the first part even though Anthony has started the second section now. And if so, what is the formatting I need to do to voice an opinion? Sorry to be a bother to you but you have been so kind and helpful to me and I really would like to have the link about the boards that I posted, that is if you think he would even look at it. It seems like this is going to be put in from my feel of things and I really think that though some editors say it's not negative to say he failed the test and didn't retake it will read negatively to new readers. What do you think my options are or should I just do what I am and lurk and see how it all shakes out? Thanks for your understand and help on these matters. -- Crohnie 23:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I just want to let you know that Anthony did get back to me and I followed his directions to post there. He is going to move and fix my formatting as he deems necessary. He was very nice about the whole thing. :) -- Crohnie 22:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
If you wouldn't mind, you said in mediation that facts are not suitable for Wikipedia. Would you post a short explanation of what you mean and the policy that I can read to understand this bit clearer on my talk page for easier access for me? I think I understand what you are saying but I am not sure if my thinking is what you are saying. What I mean is, if I have a fact from a primary source about something, then does that mean it is not acceptable until I find another source outside the original information to use that information? Also, is this rule for all articles or just biographies of living people? Thanks, you have been a blessing to me with interpreting the rules and policies that can be very confusing to utilize in concert with all the policies that are here. -- Crohnie 11:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, well this is my interpretation of it so far from what I have learned. Facts are only allowed when there is a primary source that is back up with a known secondary source that is reliable to most people. Internet website, not involved in the facts or in spamming, that are reliable and back up the information from the primary source. Even a newspaper or magazine is a secondary source if the information is being reported about the primary source. If there is a primary source giving facts about something and no secondary source is found or available then the information has to wait until a good secondary source is available and found. -- Crohnie 12:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Before you designate something as spam perhaps you should read all the external link pages cause you cut my links and then left the crap links on. just because they were badly designed websites. We know the areas we add to and know what is useful and what isnt and is to indepth —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.241.54 ( talk) 19:02, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
I am sincerely sorry if you found my post offensive. I have edited it to reflect that it is my opinion so as not to be taken personally. Steth 17:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Here. Bishonen | talk 19:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC).
An RFC has been opened for User Conduct of User:Badmonkey. Since you have been involved at some point in trying resolve a dispute with this editor I am bringing this to your attension. Note the instructings in the RFC instruct me to leave a note on the talk page of anyone who has tried to resolve this dispute and I am not WP:CANVASSing. I request you take a look at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Badmonkey and act or comment as you deem appropriate. Russeasby 00:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
From what I can understand the information that brought all of us to mediation was denied so why the on going debates still? I left a message on Anthony's page to pop in and get control if he would but I don't understand, isn't this supposed to end already? Anthony wrote that the suggestion didn't pass so why all the continued agruments and debates? This system either works or it doesn't but it sure is wordy and taking up a lot of time talking in circles about the same ole', same ole'. What's your thoughts about this? Well I have to get ready to go to work. Hopefully this will be done when I get home this aftenoon. I know, wishful thinking! ;) Have a good day, -- Crohnie 13:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the answer is that we continue until the mediator stops it. I've no idea what we'll do now that he has. -- Ronz 16:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is just one link [10]There are a lot more doing a Google check with the words cat bath pictures. I hope this is helpful. -- Crohnie 18:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
RONZ I will not write anymore on the talk page. It seems that while Wikipedia has found some real editors who sincerly want to improve the article, however my faith that something positive will happen is not very good. I have followed yours and two other admins comments around Wikipedia and it seems to me that you guys think or at least seem to think that MDS International is getting the "bad deal" here. However, there is a "Contempt of Court" finding against them in US Federal Court posted in Wikipedia commons. There are lawyer's names as well as a Judge's name on this order. A simple call to this attorney, Laurin Mills, of Nixon/Peabody (a huge legal firm in DC) would clarify the situation for eveybody. Unless we believe that a respected officer of the court is going to mislead Wikipedia.
In addition, MDSI has admitted to pirating software. They claimed the Xingtech software was abandoned. How does that happen? A call to Real AGAIN would confirm or deny this. It would also confirm or deny who is the deceptive one. We have contacted REAL. We will supply REAL with the HyperBoost disc that was purchased by us from MDSI. We have also pointed them to the edits by jeanclauduc.
They have admited to sticking it to an outside investor for 3 million. They continually post old news about that investor being indicted (as a politician) and never post the news that shows that he was not only exonerated (three times), but the charges were acknowledged as political. There are threats to sue everybody and accusations of CIA and DST (french secret service) involvement. Yet when one Googles MVDDS and Kirkpatrick, one sees the person (described by jeanclauduc as the evil mastermind) testifying before the Senate as business partners with, none other than, MDSI. Everybody is supposedly sued in France by MDSI.
While some of the conclusions of the people trying to fix this are understandable, some simply aren't. A good example, on the www.mds.fr website there is a section that was entitled "Patents" and displaying a trademark registration from the US Patent and Trademark office. Someone who does not know this document would well think it is a patent. After it was pointed out that this was no patent, the section becomes "Trademarks and Patents" even though no "patent" for Hypercable, HyperGate is displayed. While this is not much by itself, it illustrates a whole pattern of deception by MDSI.
Another good example, Who might be this Fabrice Ducasse? "So called" product manager from MDS America. it turns out that this is Jean-Claude Ducasse's oldest son and a member of the Board of Directors of MDSI and designer of the HyperGate system who resigned from the company over these business practices.
MVDDS is an American acronym, I helped create this industry. Look it up, show me a system outside the US that is called MVDDS. MVDDS is in the 12.2GHz to 12.& GHz band, the DBS band. But the DBS band in Europe is different. The FCC created this service. It is American. Under the legal agreement, of which MDSI is held in contempt, MDSI is prohibuted from offering systems in the US even though distributors. Their wab site says "Serving the entire world except installations in the United States, Canada, and Mexico" in very small letters and yet has MVDDS plastered all over it. They have several other companies, Worldwave.eu, MMDS Hypercable, etc. Go to their site, send an email telling them you want to build MVDDS systems in the US. See if you are told that MDSI can not sell in the US.
There are MVDDS-like systems overseas, however:
We have built both systems overseas, both in Ireland and the UAE. The Irish system is owned and operated by South Coast Television. They are old "Customers" of MDSI who built an MDS America system. Their number is publicly available, call them and ask why they did not buy from MDSI. You will get the same answer.
Could you postulate how one can envision that jeanclauduc is the victim here? 72.19.4.235 18:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Do you think I would be able to join in stopping spam in articles? I do know what spam is and I would like to help. -- Crohnie 21:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Rather than removing my comments from your talk page, wouldn't you prefer to discuss the issue with me to help us collaborate in the future? I get the feeling that we are both going to be editing at Wikipedia for a long time, and I would hope that you would be in favor of finding a way for us to collaborate in the future. -- Levine2112 discuss 18:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, you understand me, and I agree with your comment on my page. Fcsuper 04:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
One thing we haven't tried is getting help from related projects, WP:BLPP and the WP:NPR both seem related enough that they might help. --Ronz 14:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Your point is well-taken and I tried to clarify my point on that talk page. Regards. RalphLender talk 17:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi!
A quick note to say thanks for the changes to List of portable software - it certainly needs some attention!
Two thoughts though; wouldn't it have been better to leave the external links in for those systems which don't have a Wikipedia entry? I would have said it would reduce value to readers if they just have the name of the application, with no other information to go on (i.e. some means of finding out more; typing the name of the software into something like Google would produce a lot of irrelevant hits due to the use of pretty generic names for some of the packages)
I think the main problem with this page is that there's a lot of software listed on it which isn't actually portable - many of the applications have to be installed on a PC and then copied over to a USB drive - at which point it's claimed that they're "portable" (e.g. not that long ago, someone added "World of Warcraft", on the basis that if you installed it, copied all the files from the installation directory onto a removable drive and applied a software crack to it, it would work "portably"!) Nuwewsco 23:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually I (slightly) prefer the current version as edited by I'clast, since this is supposed to say something about Barrett. The rest can be found in the linked King Bio article. I suppose the current version could be called worse from Barrett's POV but I believe it is much closer to the sources. (FWIW, I also believe the entire para needs to go since it's WP:SYN and arguably OR. But I'm not about to delete it...) AvB ÷ talk 17:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Just a quick thanks for your assistance. Nposs 03:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
As we are new to Wikipedia, we violated fundamental rules and are now digging our way out of the hole we created for ourselves. Your posting of pertinent links to Wikipedia policy will help us recover. Thanks for your help. -- Save OU Sports 15:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)Save OU Sports
I restored relevant links that you had removed from the Health freedom movement article. I did not spam and the links were well integrated in the article text. The article is far from a “mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files”. I get the impression (from reading on this Talk Page) that you are interpreting the EL policy in an unnecessary strict way that makes the articles less useful for the readers. MaxPont 16:34, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Please avoid making this kind of edit. It makes for big trouble, much worse than leaving it in. These are not personal attacks of the sort you are encouraged to remove. They do not rise to that level. Fred Bauder 20:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
But I'm really tired of the harassment and editwarring that certain editors feel that they can get away with. I've said it before, and I'll say it again now, I don't know how to deal with them and I find it very troubling that few appear to be dealing with it at all.
There was discussion of article probation in the Ilena/Fyslee Arbitration. Has such a thing been done before? I'd like to learn what it means, and what's happened when it's been tried.
Also, if you didnt already notice, I disagree with your observations, but that's really only a trivial part of my reply [8]. -- Ronz 01:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm trying to find better ways of dealing with Tendentious editing, Disruptive editing, and the all-to-common bullying within Wikipedia. I'm doing this in response to my own involvement into the events surrounding the Ilena and Fyslee arbitration. I feel the arbitration should have never have taken place, and that it did only because numerous editors let the problems get so very out of hand for such a very long that there was no other choice. I'm looking for some preventative measures. First and foremost in my mind is getting editors to be more respectful of each other by being more respectful of the numerous policies and guidelines related to civility. Refactoring is a tool I learned after the ArbCom had already started. It's a very useful tool, but not widely enough accepted to be the solution I had hoped for. I'm still trying, though I'm getting quite disgusted at the situation. -- Ronz 21:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi Ronz, being a new editor I hope it's ok to ask you about your comment on Stephen Barrett talk page about talking in circles still. I suggested adding the little bit saying "and he was not board certified" to the end of the sentence. Do you think that just this little bit is still breaking with policy of Wikipedia and the discussions that have been on going on the talk page? I am still learning the rules here and some of them are at times very confusing to me so I am hoping to understand your thoughts on this so I can learn and if I am in error, make the correction appropriate. I thought this was a way to stop the feuding and compromise without any negatives falling into the article like the wanting of some to add that Dr. Barrett didn't pass his test and so forth. Would you please be kind enough to try to explain why you still think my suggestion is talking is circles? I would really appreciate hearing your input on this and I could learn some more hopefully. My learning curve is real slow so I stick pretty much to talk pages with ideas and wait for what the group on the page has to say. I have only edited something into an article two or three times so bold I am not! :) Again, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. Happy Holidays! -- Crohnie 21:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to clutter up your talk page Ronz, but Levine is labouring under the miscomprehension that the current non notable fact = criticism from my perspective. I have been discussing the overall content of the article in question with Crohnie with reference to the current "fact"'s notability. Then I point out other BLPs (following on from Ronz's lead) to Crohnie to guide him to how other ... better written ... BLPs exist in WP. I am using the current "fact" in the context of notability, not the context of the overall article suffering undue weight. Please stop making this assertion. Shot info 00:54, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Ronz, thanks for explaining on my talk page. I responded back to you on my talk page. -- Crohnie 20:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
(Refactor: Copy of prod notice removed - no need for it here - personal attack removed) So, include delete in Player/Stage_Project, delete now from the page or include a merge. And delete also Microsoft Robotics Studioor merge them in a common article. If you want I can merge Microsoft Robotics Studio and Player Project. -- Altermike 06:51, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Rontz, Thank you for your comment. Perhaps I should have stressed the words appropriately. We all know the following example: "None of woman born shall harm Macbeth"; "None of woman born shall harm Macbeth". Now consider this: "I find it very frustrating that no notable critics have so far made my notable criticisms of Barrett". robert2957 12:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Ronz,
I don't think I understand your comment: "You're not trying to determine importance by
asserting it without reference to sources." Do you mean that I am trying to determine
importance by asserting it without reference to sources. ?
robert2957
20:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Dear Ronz, Many thanks for your response. I am sorry that I misunderstood you. I hadn't read the previous discussion to which you refer me and I think I was a little tired when I responded to your comment. I don't question anyone's good faith either. Not that of other Wikipedia editors or Dr. Barrett. robert2957 06:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi further to your removal of the links, referring to this - WP:NOT#LINK, was there a consensus reached to remove the links? And have you also removed the links from Barra brava and Torcida which were originally on the Ultras list but removed to those pages in order to clean the list up and make it more manageable? ♦Tangerines BFC ♦· Talk 15:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Template:pnc for the discussion, which will certainly spill over into larger issues. Your thoughts would be appreciated. -- Kevin Murray 23:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Good afternoon (
GMT time); I have accepted a
Mediation Cabal
case - requested by
Levine2112 - to which you are listed as a party. Mediation has commenced at the
case talkpage, where you are invited to participate.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me via email, IRC or my talk page; I will try to answer all your questions as fully as possible in so far as it does not compromise my neutrality. Kind regards, |
Hi, I have reverted your deletions on Manufacturing Execution System as the links that were on the article benefit the user. Ideally of course we would like to have more information about this topic, but at present we dont, so linking to external sites that do host relevant information is "a good thing". Cheers, John —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayvdb ( talk • contribs)
Hi Ronz, I haven't responded to the mediation because I never did anything like this and so I have been just keeping an eye on it. I noticed that the same arguments are being made with Levine and that now he thinks that all of the information about Barrett failing the test should be in the article. I really though this would go differently than it has. I thought that consideration and talk of the policies that you and others were helping me to understand would be discussed. I only see you mentioning it after the second response from Levine about the reasons it abides by policy. Is this how these things always look like? To be honest, I am quite disappointed by the way editors responded on this mediation forum compared to the conversations on the talk pages, esp. about notability. No mentions at all about how board certification was not popular back in Barrett's day, and the failure rates of others taking the same tests. With this mediator having these templates and special rules on how he wants formatting has prevented me to be bold enough to give my own feeling on this matter. I guess I want to know is if I can still give input with the first part even though Anthony has started the second section now. And if so, what is the formatting I need to do to voice an opinion? Sorry to be a bother to you but you have been so kind and helpful to me and I really would like to have the link about the boards that I posted, that is if you think he would even look at it. It seems like this is going to be put in from my feel of things and I really think that though some editors say it's not negative to say he failed the test and didn't retake it will read negatively to new readers. What do you think my options are or should I just do what I am and lurk and see how it all shakes out? Thanks for your understand and help on these matters. -- Crohnie 23:36, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
I just want to let you know that Anthony did get back to me and I followed his directions to post there. He is going to move and fix my formatting as he deems necessary. He was very nice about the whole thing. :) -- Crohnie 22:41, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
If you wouldn't mind, you said in mediation that facts are not suitable for Wikipedia. Would you post a short explanation of what you mean and the policy that I can read to understand this bit clearer on my talk page for easier access for me? I think I understand what you are saying but I am not sure if my thinking is what you are saying. What I mean is, if I have a fact from a primary source about something, then does that mean it is not acceptable until I find another source outside the original information to use that information? Also, is this rule for all articles or just biographies of living people? Thanks, you have been a blessing to me with interpreting the rules and policies that can be very confusing to utilize in concert with all the policies that are here. -- Crohnie 11:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, well this is my interpretation of it so far from what I have learned. Facts are only allowed when there is a primary source that is back up with a known secondary source that is reliable to most people. Internet website, not involved in the facts or in spamming, that are reliable and back up the information from the primary source. Even a newspaper or magazine is a secondary source if the information is being reported about the primary source. If there is a primary source giving facts about something and no secondary source is found or available then the information has to wait until a good secondary source is available and found. -- Crohnie 12:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Before you designate something as spam perhaps you should read all the external link pages cause you cut my links and then left the crap links on. just because they were badly designed websites. We know the areas we add to and know what is useful and what isnt and is to indepth —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.13.241.54 ( talk) 19:02, 21 April 2007 (UTC).
I am sincerely sorry if you found my post offensive. I have edited it to reflect that it is my opinion so as not to be taken personally. Steth 17:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Here. Bishonen | talk 19:36, 22 April 2007 (UTC).
An RFC has been opened for User Conduct of User:Badmonkey. Since you have been involved at some point in trying resolve a dispute with this editor I am bringing this to your attension. Note the instructings in the RFC instruct me to leave a note on the talk page of anyone who has tried to resolve this dispute and I am not WP:CANVASSing. I request you take a look at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Badmonkey and act or comment as you deem appropriate. Russeasby 00:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
From what I can understand the information that brought all of us to mediation was denied so why the on going debates still? I left a message on Anthony's page to pop in and get control if he would but I don't understand, isn't this supposed to end already? Anthony wrote that the suggestion didn't pass so why all the continued agruments and debates? This system either works or it doesn't but it sure is wordy and taking up a lot of time talking in circles about the same ole', same ole'. What's your thoughts about this? Well I have to get ready to go to work. Hopefully this will be done when I get home this aftenoon. I know, wishful thinking! ;) Have a good day, -- Crohnie 13:05, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
It looks like the answer is that we continue until the mediator stops it. I've no idea what we'll do now that he has. -- Ronz 16:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is just one link [10]There are a lot more doing a Google check with the words cat bath pictures. I hope this is helpful. -- Crohnie 18:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
RONZ I will not write anymore on the talk page. It seems that while Wikipedia has found some real editors who sincerly want to improve the article, however my faith that something positive will happen is not very good. I have followed yours and two other admins comments around Wikipedia and it seems to me that you guys think or at least seem to think that MDS International is getting the "bad deal" here. However, there is a "Contempt of Court" finding against them in US Federal Court posted in Wikipedia commons. There are lawyer's names as well as a Judge's name on this order. A simple call to this attorney, Laurin Mills, of Nixon/Peabody (a huge legal firm in DC) would clarify the situation for eveybody. Unless we believe that a respected officer of the court is going to mislead Wikipedia.
In addition, MDSI has admitted to pirating software. They claimed the Xingtech software was abandoned. How does that happen? A call to Real AGAIN would confirm or deny this. It would also confirm or deny who is the deceptive one. We have contacted REAL. We will supply REAL with the HyperBoost disc that was purchased by us from MDSI. We have also pointed them to the edits by jeanclauduc.
They have admited to sticking it to an outside investor for 3 million. They continually post old news about that investor being indicted (as a politician) and never post the news that shows that he was not only exonerated (three times), but the charges were acknowledged as political. There are threats to sue everybody and accusations of CIA and DST (french secret service) involvement. Yet when one Googles MVDDS and Kirkpatrick, one sees the person (described by jeanclauduc as the evil mastermind) testifying before the Senate as business partners with, none other than, MDSI. Everybody is supposedly sued in France by MDSI.
While some of the conclusions of the people trying to fix this are understandable, some simply aren't. A good example, on the www.mds.fr website there is a section that was entitled "Patents" and displaying a trademark registration from the US Patent and Trademark office. Someone who does not know this document would well think it is a patent. After it was pointed out that this was no patent, the section becomes "Trademarks and Patents" even though no "patent" for Hypercable, HyperGate is displayed. While this is not much by itself, it illustrates a whole pattern of deception by MDSI.
Another good example, Who might be this Fabrice Ducasse? "So called" product manager from MDS America. it turns out that this is Jean-Claude Ducasse's oldest son and a member of the Board of Directors of MDSI and designer of the HyperGate system who resigned from the company over these business practices.
MVDDS is an American acronym, I helped create this industry. Look it up, show me a system outside the US that is called MVDDS. MVDDS is in the 12.2GHz to 12.& GHz band, the DBS band. But the DBS band in Europe is different. The FCC created this service. It is American. Under the legal agreement, of which MDSI is held in contempt, MDSI is prohibuted from offering systems in the US even though distributors. Their wab site says "Serving the entire world except installations in the United States, Canada, and Mexico" in very small letters and yet has MVDDS plastered all over it. They have several other companies, Worldwave.eu, MMDS Hypercable, etc. Go to their site, send an email telling them you want to build MVDDS systems in the US. See if you are told that MDSI can not sell in the US.
There are MVDDS-like systems overseas, however:
We have built both systems overseas, both in Ireland and the UAE. The Irish system is owned and operated by South Coast Television. They are old "Customers" of MDSI who built an MDS America system. Their number is publicly available, call them and ask why they did not buy from MDSI. You will get the same answer.
Could you postulate how one can envision that jeanclauduc is the victim here? 72.19.4.235 18:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Do you think I would be able to join in stopping spam in articles? I do know what spam is and I would like to help. -- Crohnie 21:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Rather than removing my comments from your talk page, wouldn't you prefer to discuss the issue with me to help us collaborate in the future? I get the feeling that we are both going to be editing at Wikipedia for a long time, and I would hope that you would be in favor of finding a way for us to collaborate in the future. -- Levine2112 discuss 18:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, you understand me, and I agree with your comment on my page. Fcsuper 04:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
One thing we haven't tried is getting help from related projects, WP:BLPP and the WP:NPR both seem related enough that they might help. --Ronz 14:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)